Everywhere I turn, people are commenting that Elidibus is the Ascian inhabiting Zenos.
Where is everyone getting that idea?
THIS "Zenos" wants the WoL dead. He wants to tip the scales on the Source into the realm of darkness....the realm of Zodiark.
Elidibus has stated on numerous occasion to us and Minfilia that he is not like his brethren. He is about restoring balance. And has stated that Killing the WoL would not accomplish that goal. 9And before you say he sicked the WoD on us, may I remind you that was Urianger's idea, not Elidibus).
Therefore, I propose to you lot who keep claiming Zenos is Elidibus to ponder the following....
Zenos is being inhabited by an Ascian we have not truly met yet, akin to or stronger than Lahabrea, that wants to tip the balance of the Source int he favor of Zodiark. I feel this will be one of if not THE "Big Bad" of 5.x.
Discuss.
Elidibus and Zenos
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03-31-2019, 09:35 AMWarzonePrezElidibus and Zenos
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03-31-2019, 09:45 AMCon_Carne
I could say three reasons, but I don't know if you played 4.4 or not.
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03-31-2019, 09:46 AMAlucard135
Yup, 4.4 has a clear answer.
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03-31-2019, 09:50 AMWarzonePrez
I finished 4.56, so not sure what you are getting at.
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03-31-2019, 09:54 AMAlucard135
Just to avoid spoilers. You should probably state so in your post.
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03-31-2019, 09:56 AMWarzonePrez
That still doesn't prove or disprove the identity of the Ascian. Ascians have been in control of the royal family for generations. I could elaborate, but I too would be posting spoilers.
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03-31-2019, 09:58 AMSilverObi
A trip to the lore forum would set you straight
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03-31-2019, 10:04 AMCon_Carne
4.4 - 4.5 SPOILERS
1. Elidibus appeared before Varis and unmasked himself, showing the face of Zenos. The image above.
2. Ascian Solus confirmed this just at his first dialogues.
3. The Shadowhunter mentions Elidibus as well as the one posing as Zenos. -
03-31-2019, 10:10 AMWarzonePrez
I am going through 4.3 on an alt and making my way through the story again.....I will have to see this again, but I'm pretty sure the identity was not concretely confirmed.
If what you are saying is true, than what happened at the end of 4.56....is out of character for Elidibus. -
03-31-2019, 10:11 AMSilverObi
During the fight he has a line to the effect of us being an imbalance, and our death will correct it. He's past treating us with kid gloves it seems and he's still on his original plan of maintaining equilibrium. That just includes murdering us now since we're so full of light essentially.
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03-31-2019, 10:48 AMCybylt
It's almost as if the situation has changed, maybe something like Lahabrea - the Ascian in charge of the Source - has been killed, and the Warrior of Light has become so powerful as to require different tactics.
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03-31-2019, 10:54 AMMimiluThat sounds like something an Ascian would say... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)Quote:
Originally Posted by WarzonePrez
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03-31-2019, 12:25 PMAndevomHe said it wouldn't accomplish that goal...at that time. You're thinking of things that happened back in ARR. Now he clearly thinks the WoL has gotten too powerful for him to be able to reasonably achieve his goals. Keep in mind when we first meet him, we hadn't successfully destroyed an Ascian yet, nor done even half of what we've accomplished. He didn't think we'd be capable of messing with his plans this much, so now the gloves are off.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarzonePrez
Also, y'know, it's possible he was just lying. That's far more reasonable than there being some other white robed Ascian messing around, and for some reason Elidibus isn't like "Hey bro, could you not?" anywhere. -
03-31-2019, 02:01 PMBelhi
There is a lot suggesting that our victories are coming close to triggering a flood of Light on the Source. Elidibus is looking to kill us to redress that balance. It is pretty much that simple. Maintaining balance is one of Elidibus's primary roles. A void is useless to the Ascian's plans and the source become a void could be disastrous.
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03-31-2019, 02:16 PMVahlnir
We don't really know much about Zodiark or the Ascian game plan beyond them wanting to restore him by weakening Hydaelyn's influence. What happens after that is anyone's guess but it's probably not good. Elidibus wants there to be a balance between darkness and light. Currently we are tipping the scales too far in one direction, as the expansion hints at. So we must tip the scales back. Elidibus is apparently done playing games which should probably speak volumes about the magnitude of the situation. Ascians are considered to be a lot of things...and patience is one of their strong suits. They tend to stay behind the scenes...and yet Elidizenos is on the front lines of a full scale war. That is a little something called "desperation".
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03-31-2019, 08:40 PMSove92
https://i.imgur.com/iau5mAn.png
On top of all the evidence already mentioned here. -
03-31-2019, 09:51 PMSerLuke
There was also an earlier cut scene where Eldibus shows his face to Varis and Varis replied “how dare you” we didn’t see his face at that time but Varis’s reaction implied it was someone close to him so Zenos made sense and was later confirmed
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04-01-2019, 01:47 AMIscah
4.4 was absolute confirmation that it's Elidibus possessing Zenos, but it goes back further than that - as does Elidibus's shift from "detached observer" to directly trying to kill us.
3.0 'Heavensward', cutscene #13 - Elidibus muses on the consequences of Lahabrea and Igeyorhm's defeat at Azys Lla, then turns to speak to someone:
Quote:
ELIDIBUS
Without intervention, the balance between Light and Darkness will begin to shift, placing our mission in jeopardy.
Hydaelyn's champion has grown too strong. Her might encroaches upon the realm of gods.
Equilibrium must needs be restored. The time is come for you and yours to join the fray... Warrior of Darkness.
Fast forward to the end of Stormblood, and "part 1" of that scene from the screenshot shown above. I think this may have been the first time we realised that Varis is aware of / working with the Ascians, though we didn't know all of it yet.
4.0 'Stormblood', cutscene #8, as Elidibus and Varis discuss first Zenos's death, then the Ascians' intentions:
Quote:
ELIDIBUS
Doubt my claims and question my motives if you will, Your Radiance. You will come to trust me in time. Until then, mayhap you fill find this...reassuring.
***He removes his mask, showing his face to Varis (but not the player). Varis gasps.***
VARIS
How... how dare you...
At the end of 4.2 we first see that Zenos is apparently alive again, and in 4.3 we see him conversing with Varis.
4.3 'Under the Moonlight', cutscene #2:
(I want to say this is an exact reference to something Elidibus said another time, but if so then I can't find it. But it's definitely in the realm of his usual remarks.Quote:
ZENOS
My methods may seem extreme, but there is no cause for concern. I work only to ensure the salvation of this star.
And finally in 4.4 we revisit the end-of-Stormblood scene and get the confirmation that it was Zenos's face that Varis saw under Elidibus's mask.
The high-ranked Ascians aren't visually interchangeable - they all have unique masks.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarzonePrez
Elidibus had already sent the Warriors of Darkness to act as a counter to us - whether the ultimate plan was to have them kill us, or simply upset the balance further.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarzonePrez
Unfortunately for Elidibus, Urianger managed to outsmart him, play both sides and set up the circumstances that lead to that meeting with Minfilia in the Aetherial Sea.
Urianger did suggest that they shift to killing us directly, but in hindsight that seems to have been a ploy to get all of us in the same place at once, and interestingly he only does so after seeing that Arbert is still carrying his Crystal of Light. I think he worked out at that point that bringing their crystals together with ours would let us channel power to Hydaelyn - but if he broke his act and suggested that plan outright, Elidibus might catch hold of it and try to prevent it.
(On a second playthrough it seems that Urianger is actually doing his best to thwart the WoD's plans while appearing to work with them. After you prevent the summoning of Garuda at Xelphatol and the WoD group + Urianger arrive shortly after, they accuse him of deliberately taking them the long way round - which he probably did.) -
04-01-2019, 04:57 AMNestamaThat was in 3.4. You need to rewatch the the after credits cutscene at the end of 3.0. The WoL is an imbalance, so Elidibus now treats us with hostility.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarzonePrez
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04-01-2019, 04:59 AMWarzonePrezFirst off, while I can see everyone's point they are trying to make, What you said about 4.2 isn't necessarily true. We do not see the Ascian's face. We do not see his mask. We are unable to identify him, other than to speculate his identity based on his actions, motives, and speech.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
Second, Yes, High Ranking Ascians have different masks to identify than. Problem is, they do not show their mask. They are inhabiting bodies. Until we have a glimpse of them using their power, similar to Lahabrea in the final battle of ARR where his mask is brought down in front of Thancred's face, you have no clue who is sanding in front of us.
@Soveia , Where did that picture you posted come from? I see no source for it. I could just as easily put together something like that in Photoshop. Obviously, if YoshiP officially puts it out there, we have little to argue about. -
04-01-2019, 05:11 AMNestamaFrom the American Fan Fest. 43 minutes and 39 seconds in.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarzonePrez
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04-02-2019, 02:11 AMIscahWe are able to identify him, because of the scene shown in 4.0 then revisited in 4.4, that Alucard posted above.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarzonePrez
That's Elidibus. We knew in 4.0 that it was someone Varis recognised, and Zenos was always the likely candidate (although alternately people thought Asahi might have been Elidibus's unmasked normal form).Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard135
The screenshot above from 4.4 revisits that scene, and shows the player what Varis saw the first time - Zenos's face underneath Elidibus's white robes - and if you want to get particular about the mask, that is also recognisably Elidibus's even though we can only see the back of it. You can see the inside curve of the "beak" shape that is the most noticable feature of it.
If you want to insist that it might not be Elidibus and may instead be some other previously unmentioned white-robed Ascian... that hypothetical character is probably also tasked with keeping the balance, and is still trying to kill us to perserve that balance.
If you're unconvinced, don't cling too tightly to the idea that it must be someone else, even if you prefer to interpret it that way. Keep in mind that it may be the writers' intention that you know it's Elidibus at this point, even if you personally have come to a different conclusion. Otherwise your understanding of the story might be affected by it. -
04-02-2019, 02:26 AMFeliAiko
NA Fanfest explicitly states Elidibus as being in Zenos' body when listing the major players in 5.0 story. It's not exactly a mystery at this point.
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04-02-2019, 04:50 AMBright-FlowerYep. Plus I believe Solus made it clear in 4.4 when Varis was talking to 'Zenos' and then talked to Solus who identified Elidibus by name.Quote:
Originally Posted by FeliAiko
And him trying to kill us to balance things out isn't out of character with everything pointing towards us causing a flood of light.
There was a crazy theory in earlier patches that maybe Lahabrea had survived inside the eye of nidhogg and then seized Zenos' body but that theory was shown to be incorrect. And 'Zenos' words/actions would be more OOC for Lahabrea than they would for Elidibus. That said the fact they keep mentioning Lahabrea by name in these recent patches has me wondering if they're trying to remind us he exists to reveal that he's not dead or something at some point. -
04-02-2019, 05:09 AMDaralii"Elidibus may be an insufferable bore, but his judgement as Emissary seldom errs" is along the lines of what Solus says when he's venting at Varis about how he'd earned his rest and Lahabrea's idiocy got him involved again. Zenos also refers to the lengths he goes to as "an emissary, playing the fool."Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright-Flower