Question regarding the other side of the pond

Hi Mates,

Well I don't speak japanese. But does anyone know how japanese community reaction to the Gender locking drama? Something tells me that they are not marching to the SE HQ with pitchforks and goblin bombs demanding stuff from YP

It was mentioned in some of threads and reddit : There is some reaction to it that they are not okay with us, but it's far more civilized discussion then our forums.

From what I hear, there's complaints about the genderlock but they're more concerned about a lack of a healer than anything.

They have thread on their forum. Only one active, there is more than 10 pages for now, but since they are not very active on forum overall (especially compare to EN) - this a quite big thread, not small at all. Most people who commented there are not against of implementing missing genders or up for it, but they are very polite in their request and do not fight with each other for the sake of fights (as it is here right now).

Actually, if we will throw away all who insult each other (from both teams "I'm against" and from "I'm for") the thread on EN forum will still be very big (which is understandable. there is 140.000+ threads with more than 2 million comments here in English part, compare to 30.000+ threads and 400 thousand comments in JP. DE and FR are almost dead compare to these two) but could be much more constructive and calm. So it's not even about drama, it's about EN community behavior in general. As example, some people keep to scream "wah sjw again!" while in big group of people there are maybe 10 or 20 people who brings up "irl policies" in their arguments. But yeah, of course, let's judge whole group on few people and start the holy crusade. And that's how we ended up with what we have now.

Japanese forum posts pretty much unanimously say they're dissapointed and would like to see both male viera and female hrothgar added in 6.0
2chan are complaining about the noisy foreigners and people using identity politics to get what they want.

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Originally Posted by username1234

Japanese forum posts pretty much unanimously say they're dissapointed and would like to see both male viera and female hrothgar added in 6.0
2chan are complaining about the noisy foreigners and people using identity politics to get what they want.

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Western culture has a habit of resisting bad ideas. We tend to act in fight or flight to things, because of our history. Regardless of how people feel about it, it does get things done around here.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Western culture has a habit of resisting bad ideas. We tend to act in fight or flight to things, because of our history. Regardless of how people feel about it, it does get things done around here.

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no, western culture has a habit of throwing children's tantrums that only make it look ridiculous. The comment on noisy foreigners using cheap politics tactic is absolutely spot on

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Originally Posted by SoleilAlphi

no, western culture has a habit of throwing children's tantrums that only make it look ridiculous. The comment on noisy foreigners using cheap politics tactic is absolutely spot on

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a specific part of western culture....

For me, all this situation just shows the differences between Western and Eastern culture - unfortunately, in a quite negative way for us. I am against the gender-lock (not because I want a 'bunny boi', but because I don't accept this solution in any MMO game) and I really do hope that we will get a male Viera and female Hrothgar in the future, but after reading some threads and posts I started to feel sorry for the devs. I understand these ones who treat it as a big step back, but I still think that many of them overreacted. The dev team gave us their reasons and I believe that it wasn't an easy decision for them - I'm sure they really wanted to create a compromise that makes the most of their players happy. We don't know what actually happened in the process, so it would be nice if we don't judge them so easily. We have the right to show our disappointment, but there are many more polite ways to do that than threating and blackmailing the creators, even if they made a few mistakes.

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Originally Posted by SoleilAlphi

no, western culture has a habit of throwing children's tantrums that only make it look ridiculous. The comment on noisy foreigners using cheap politics tactic is absolutely spot on

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What exactly are you suggesting is a 'tantrum'? So far I've seen quite a lot of good discussion on real issues that human beings need to tackle. There's a handful resorting to calling names like SJW or mental gymnasts, but overall there's been pretty good discussion both for and against the decision.

I think it's really disingenuous to suggest that people wanting representation beyond tired tropes is 'cheap politics'. I'm a real person. I'm not a politician. I'm a real person playing the game, same as you are, and enjoying what I can of it. I think it was a mistake to put together the races in the way that they did, and folks shouldn't try to invalidate my opinion by suggesting it's just 'cheap politics'.

uh… the "male viera or riot imma unsub, the dev team is sexist etc. etc." posts that litter the forums since this weekend? There is way and way of getting your opinion across, and as some posters above pointed out, while it is not everyone who behaves this way, there's some who DO throw tantrums. you can't hide behind the "it is my opinion so I have a right to be rude and threaten and cry". that is selfish and that is children's logic. Plus the whole sexist thing? THAT is cheap politics. But it's not like I expect anyone to agree with me, in fact, my view here is the unpopular one it seems.

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Originally Posted by SoleilAlphi

uh… the "male viera or riot imma unsub, the dev team is sexist etc. etc." posts that litter the forums since this weekend? There is way and way of getting your opinion across, and as some posters above pointed out, while it is not everyone who behaves this way, there's some who DO throw tantrums. you can't hide behind the "it is my opinion so I have a right to be rude and threaten and cry". that is selfish and that is children's logic. Plus the whole sexist thing? THAT is cheap politics. But it's not like I expect anyone to agree with me, in fact, my view here is the unpopular one it seems.

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I think you're mainly focusing on the bad eggs here? for every bad comment, there's 20+ that are calm or constructive.
Besides everyone is aware of the people who throw tantrums, why not just try ignoring them and continuing to benefit the debate with proper input than fixating on them?
If ya feed a troll it'll keep on going. Personally a lot of good conversations have been had already in the male viera thread which goes exactly in line with the feedback Yoshi says they will look into. So yea?

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Originally Posted by SoleilAlphi

uh… the "male viera or riot imma unsub, the dev team is sexist etc. etc." posts that litter the forums since this weekend? There is way and way of getting your opinion across, and as some posters above pointed out, while it is not everyone who behaves this way, there's some who DO throw tantrums. you can't hide behind the "it is my opinion so I have a right to be rude and threaten and cry". that is selfish and that is children's logic. Plus the whole sexist thing? THAT is cheap politics. But it's not like I expect anyone to agree with me, in fact, my view here is the unpopular one it seems.

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When people conflate the two and then try to use that by selling the entire piece as "toxic" then I'm sorry but the ones resorting to "childer's logic" is not just the extremes complaining.

Those who will insult others and use poor arguments only discredit themselves, and DO NOT sell it as if it were the people complaining alone that did it, because it only demonstrates that you are the one being dishonest.

Also, stop saying that unsubbing is nothing more than a threat. If you think you're behaving like "an adult" then actually demonstrate you are one and learn what a protest is.

It matters not if it's unpopular, you have said yours and people have said theirs because it's their right as consumers to critcise. Do not think that some people aren't trying to dismiss legitimate criticism by lumping it together with the more irrational demands, or by inventing a million excuses that crumble by inspecting them for various reasons, which could very well be that in their minds criticism of any kind is not permissible or they operate with a mentality of "If it's fine for me, it's fine for everybody!".

I did not resort to poor arguments, nor strwman, nor sexism to get my opinion across so no I ain't dishonest. Legitimate criticism is done with logic, which was very lacking this weekend. On the subject of unsubbing, if you stay true to your decision, and actually keep staying unsubbed until the devs give male viera and female hrotgar, then you can say you behaved like an adult, that you are an adult and know what a protest is. If you say you'll be unsubbing, but then show up first in line the day ShB early access starts, then you are being hypocritical, dishonest in your intention, and your protest void. Which is what 90% of people saying "I'll unsub" will do.