Fates use this scoring system based on contribution, I'd like to see something like that in instanced content as well.
Tanks for example could get scored on how well they manage aggro.
Healers on heals or mitigating damage, keeping people alive.
(It's a bit awkward between tank-healers, cause if tank's heavily mitigate damage, then healer doesn't get much to heal)
DPS on dps, managing aggro using diversion. refresh, goad etc.
Everyone on doing mechanics right, and avoiding avoidable damage, etc.
Using wide selection of skills, and not just spam cure I even when party takes high aoe damage.
This could be tied in with mentorship, cause apparently 99% of mentors, have no idea what they are talking about - what's the point of mentor system, if mentors are as clueless as the people they are supposed to mentor?
I'm thinking something like:
new players have that green plant icon, so if it's your first time in an instance, you automatically have that icon (or if you haven't cleared it yet)
If you cleard it with low score, you'll have a bronze medal icon.
Silver if you got good score, and gold if you performed really well.
And Mentor Medal if you cleared it with gold on minimum item level.
(on a side-note, maybe allow people to run matched roulette/dungeons on minimum ilv, with significant clear bonus)
Even if you don't clear, and there's vote abandon, you could still get a score, on the progress you made.
So in party finder, you could set score requirement.
And for EX primals for example, you might not have clear yet, but know the fight well, with high score, and you could meet requirement for farm party anyway. or fail requirement for farm party, even if you cleared it.
Also it's kind of ridiculous with people setting ilv400 req, on ilv300 content, so maybe have increase chance of obtaining primal mounts, on minimum ilv?
So you could set high score requirement, instead of high ilv, cause ilv doesn't mean anything if you're dead.
I also think every dungeon should have a score requirement, along with ilv.
the requirement should be low for low lv dungeons, but progress higher towards end-game content.
Let's say bronze give 1000pt, silver 2000, gold 5000.
Then ARR dungeons should require average of 1250, across all previous dungeons.
HW=1500
SB=2000
ShB=3000
People really need to be held accountable in group content, and not just skid trough the whole game, on a banana peel, and have no idea how to play, on lv 70+
For example, i was watching this guy stream on twitch, when Tera was in beta on PS4. I gave him some tips, but he flat out ignored it, saying it's just beta. I pointed out he had some new skills, but he refused to use them (using above excuse)
He really liked the game, and wanted to keep playing it at release, but don't want to improve?
I watch him stream after release, and he was playing Brawler (tank) but didn't really use any tanking skills, and never had aggro, and didn't want to listen to advice....soooo why should people like that be allowed to mess up for multiple other people? In later content, you won't even be able to clear it, if tank can't aggro, or healers can't heal, it's just waste of time - they really need to be held accountable, and expected to improve over time.
I know everyone has their own style, and enjoy the game differently - you can enjoy the game as you wish, as long as it doesn't impact other people, in a negative way.
I encountered many people in various content, who really couldn't care less about anyone else, and it's unacceptable in >>group<< content; if they are that selfish, they can stay locked out of content.
Scoring System for instances
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03-26-2019, 08:31 PMRadacciScoring System for instances
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03-26-2019, 08:54 PMHalivel
It sounds very interesting and I wonder how it can possibly work in the game, but I'm afraid it will end up as tool of harassing. Score itself is quite useless, it only tells that "something is probably wrong" but do not really teach people how to play even if they want to know.
Much better it could be if system will say what exactly was done in wrong way (let's say, you refreshed dots too early so lost potential damage), but quite hard to implement into game because in long-term perspective it will kill unique playstyles in forcing people to do all things in absolutely same way if they want to reach at least medium score, not even high.
It works like this already. There is a special option for this in DF. :eyes:Quote:
so maybe have increase chance of obtaining primal mounts, on minimum ilv?
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03-26-2019, 09:00 PMGula
No thank you.
It would be very, very stressful for new players and people learning a job to be pushed by vets to get gold on top of the duress that comes with the experience. There will be groups that will kick at the end if they know they're not getting the best score over a slip up. People will, ya know they will. And no, some people do not want to improve. They are happy where they are and the battle designers know this.
Maybe you should try Dungeon Fighter Online, should be still running. Arcade style mmo and everyone goes in to even low level content pushing you to get top score. -
03-26-2019, 09:01 PMKaurhz
No. This has been proposed a thousand times, still, no.
When you use the duty finder and get grouped with random people, frankly, at that point you lose all right to complain. -
03-26-2019, 09:01 PMCaitlinzulu
How about just no.
I can feel the elitist mentality appearing.
Que times wou'd increase too because of fragmenting the player pool. -
03-26-2019, 09:01 PMfumofu
I don't think it is necessary, game is fine as it is. I have no problem clearing most of dungeons, even if performance of party is weak, just takes a bit longer. And no, people shouldn't be accountable for their performance in regular content. It's just a game which gives us plenty of freedom of how to play. Suggestions like yours aims to limit our freedom. I'm against that.
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03-26-2019, 09:02 PMMikki
Yeah, gonna have to say no. As others have mentioned, I think it will just end up as a means of harassing others and although interesting, it doesn't really add much or give helpful information to improve by itself.
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03-26-2019, 10:29 PMGulaYou can lead a horse to water but can't force it to drink. The people who plan out the combat are well aware and I think solo duties give all the information one needs to understand (eventually) why it is they need to not stand in the orange and why their strategy of auto attacks is not working. Especially the newest one. (as of this post)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikki
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03-26-2019, 10:42 PMTsukino
It would be poorly balanced and heavily gamed just like the FATE system is. People will find whatever thing gets max points and do that instead of properly helping out, just like they throw DoTs and spam AoE enmity abilities to get gold on FATEs.
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03-26-2019, 11:15 PMTlachtga
You have the wrong MMO. Anything that could show somehow how bad they actually are is the worst idea ever, and is instantly shot down by the community because of possible toxicity that might happen. Maybe.
It's best to just keep it as it is; the MSQ/dungeons/most content being pathetically easy, making you feel like you're a god at the game, and perpetually keeping your contribution to fights hidden and out of sight.
Please think of the newbies! -
03-26-2019, 11:22 PMRadaccithe intention is simply for unlocking content, showing understanding about your job, and the particular content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Halivel
as for boosting xp/tomestones etc, if you get gold and someone else get bronze, it doesn't incur penalty on you, so there's no reason to harass others. Your score only affects your progression, no one else.
yes i imagine a score-board after exititng the dungeon, where it shows score for various actions, how your healed/aggro/dps was; doesn't need to show exact dps, simply if it was good or bad. It's difficult to know if your dps is bad, without a parser, so it would be hard to tell if you even need improvement - being shown that it's bad, may give you reason to research a bit. But my argument isn't really about dps or such, but simply showing you have basic understanding of the content you're doing, and if you're ready for more difficult content.
then you report them for harassment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gula
i don't think anything would change, except maybe people would give more advice, which is the whole point of mentorship.
everyone already likes new players in party, since it give bonus to tomes.
If you see someone with bronze, as a vet, you can simply give them advice how to improve; douchbags already exist and harass people even without score system, so there won't be less or more harassment than before.
If i end up with plant/bronze members, i'd simply give them appropriate advice, and they can take it or leave it, doesn't matter to me.
my complaint isn't about being grouped with random people, it's being grouped with people who waste others time, and being rude about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurhz
if you have content unlocked, then elitists would have no reason to complain about anything, since you scored well enough to be there. It's basically the same as level/ilv, don't have enough ilv? can't enter content; this is simply another way to make sure people have basic understanding of the content (which to me is more important than lv/ilv)Quote:
Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu
not really, it's just for unlocking content. Or if you set score req in PF, then we can already do that with setting ilv, this is just another layer, and won't fraction the community more than it is now.
I have been in party where 90min time runs out in Fractal, so that kind of limits my freedom and enjoyment of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by fumofu
Also it took 120hr+ to clear Titan EX, until i made my own elitist party, and kicked people, and cleared it on 2nd try. I'd rather not waste 120hr again, on a EX primal, cause ppl think ilv=skill.
I don't mind new ppl with 0 experience, or explaining the fight, it only bothers me when people show 0 interest in improving, and expect to get carried from lv 1-80, while learning nothing.
I could honestly spend a week mentoring someone from lv 1-70, help them get gold score, and unlock all content for them, and have fun teaching them all EX primals etc, if they show interest in improving.
well that's a rather shitty attitude to have for humans, playing group content, in an MMO :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gula
well yes, but if people haven't figured such basic stuff out yet, should they really be doing Alphascape?
It's like playing FF7 and skipping the first 2 discs, and start with fighting Ruby Weapon, while having no knowledge about the game, does that seem logical?
I'd just wanna see people learning the easier content, before getting to the tougher parts, at whatever pace they feel like doing it.
it won't have any relevance outside of unlocking higher lv instances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukino
no one else sees your score, so it doesn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tlachtga
Well i agree that it could discurage people, if they get low score; but if they take advice, they can improve, that's it's own form of reward. -
03-26-2019, 11:39 PMLiam_HarperIt's way too difficult for a game to guage this and would most likely result in parties playing terribly and using all sort of unnecessary abilities to cheese the contribution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radacci
Tanks in tank stance raining Emnity combos on easy bosses. Including the OT.
Healers over-healing like crazy, Rescuing dps into aoe to heal them even more.
Dps fighting for goads, Sams trying to Merciful Eyes everything, dps arguing over who gets certain buffs.
Players avoiding mechanics that barely tickle, killing adds that are normally weak and ignored
Players taking every role action and ability and using them for bonus points even when it doesn't make any difference.
It would be a mess. It would almost be impossible to create a system with zero loopholes and players would find them and abuse them. -
03-26-2019, 11:55 PMRadaccihaha, well they certainly don't need to add every single skill into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
lol you people make it sound like the end of the world, when it's intended for just unlocking next dungeon/raid. no one needs to argue, fight anyone else, care what anyone else is doing - it's just a personal score, for unlocking content, not a e-peen fight.
You get your silver or gold once, then you ignore the whole thing; turn it off in options or whatever.
you don't need to perform like a world-first raider, to get gold, just don't get hit by stuff you can avoid :p esuna poisons, heal up someone to avoid them dying from doom, have decent dps, pick up adds, use darkest night on MT or whatever.
If you looked at my score, i even set the average score a fair bit below gold, for ShB, so you'd only need average of silver, and maybe a handful of golds. Any average gamer wouldn't even need to pay attention, cause they'd just get enough points anyway. -
03-27-2019, 04:34 AMDanourino.
Things like this is one of the many reasons the wow community turned so toxic, all this does is put a number on what someone is doing, no matter how good the intentions people will use it to exclude and harass others, its in fact one of the reasons I left wow for this game. I would fight tooth and nail to keep this game the way it is
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03-27-2019, 05:54 AMRacen
nope, no thanks awful never.
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03-27-2019, 06:20 AMSamSmoot
I wouldn't mind a system that showed how you were doing relative to an average of the last 200 players of the same item level and job that ran the same instance. No numbers to shout about, just a position on a bar graph that only you can see.
Perhaps, at the end of the run, you could expand the display to show how you did on the use of each ability as well. It would serve as a learning experience without being something you could use against others.
I thought I was doing pretty good until I installed ACT, and saw how badly I was actually doing, so now I'm reading guides and beating up dummies in my spare time trying to improve. Without some performance data comparison, you have no incentive to improve.
On the other hand, you should never be excluded from content because you can't live up to someone else's expectations. -
03-27-2019, 06:22 AMKurando
Well if it was only available through a pre-formed party and not through the DF matchmaking, then it's not a bad idea to have scoring because in that case everybody that joined the party would have agreed to it anyway. There is already a completion time update when you finish a duty unsync so the capability is kinda there, but it cannot be a full on addition for every duty because you know... toxicity.
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03-27-2019, 06:54 AMFhaerronQuote:
Originally Posted by Radacci
So basically a tank with Shield Oath, Grit or Defiance on all the time and just spam flash the entire fight get's higher score then me because they have infinite emnity?
And also they get better score because they take less damage? (PLD & DRK take 20% less damage with tank stance on).
I DPS stance everything without loosing emnity. Of course even by using reprisal & rampart I would still take more damage because my tankstance (passive 20% dmg reduction on PLD/DRK) isn't on. So I get less score?
I often stand in AoE (not on savage fights though) when on my DRK and using my blackest night, when the damage of the mobs is too low and my shieldn't wouldn't break in time, if it does break I get 50 added to my blood gauge and so I can use Quietus or Bloodspiller more which means more DPS. Anyway since I choose to take avoidable damage (in order to deal more damage) I get less score?
So basically I would get less points because I like to speedrun and sacrifice mitigation (using DPS stance instead of tank stance) in order to complete the dungeon faster and deal massive damage (should also mention that I don't die)?
Yeah, no thanks. -
03-27-2019, 08:33 AMKleeya
This kind of things is fine in solo, or to an extent in group content where people have no interactions at all with each other. But not in something where sometimes your worst ennemies are your other group members, where complex mechanics are involved, and where loopholes will be find very quickly.
In a similar thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...formance-Grade) i didn't get an answer, most likely because all is not as simple as it might seems :
Quote:
I can't even see how SE could do something so complex depending of what can happen, and how people will troll with or abuse flaws in this kind of system.
Example 1 : a stack marker appear on someone else, i go stack with him but everyone else is staying away, so i get killed for doing the mechanic properly. Do you count my death as a bad thing or a good one ? How do you handle my dps loss that ensue (cause no mana left and death debuff) while i did nothing wrong ?
Example 2 : if someone else keep following me with his aoe marker and get us both killed, are you removing points from me ? As in 1 how do you handle my dps loss ?
Example 3 : how do you deal with people getting killed so often that i sometimes get out of mana on my rdm rezzing them ? Should i get points removed for not being able to dps anymore with lucid still on cooldown, while i did a good thing rezzing these two healers hoping that they will save the raid ?
Example 4 : if i know i can survive an avoidable aoe, should i getting points removed for staying in it so that i can dps more ?
Example 5 : the tank turn shortly the boss towards the group, i get cleaved and killed while the tank is still alive. Who do you remove points from ?
Example 6 : the tank start to run everywhere with a big group of mobs. Do you take points from me as a MCH because i can't dps with my bishop turret properly, and keep wasting 10 seconds cooldowns because the tank can't stay still ?
Example 7 : if there is personnal rewards involved, how do you deal with people being killed on purpose so that their healer friend can get a good grade rezzing them multiple times ?
If you can't even answer these simple questions (and i am sure we can find way more of them), then maybe a duty performance grade is not as good an idea as you think.