I've played off and on for years but have never delved into the hardcore/min-max community in this game. The reason is that virtually every raiding FC uses 3rd party software that is against the ToS and thus cheating (from a purely objective point of view).
Now before people flame...
- I'm not "anti-parser." I've used them in other games.
- They make you better, I am not questioning their efficacy.
- I have no problem with people seeing my stats and judging me based on that.
- I understand SE can't "see" them anyway as they are client side.
- I am not worried about "getting caught" if I did use them.
- I know SE rarely enforces the ToS unless harassment is involved.
- Parsing is openly discussed on the forums, party finder, in FCs, everywhere.
- As an aside, the "Fight Club" meme is utterly absurd. Everyone talks about it.
I enjoy theory crafting, numbers, stats, rankings, challenging content and teamwork. I have the free time and drive to do raid nights like I would in any other MMO. In this game though, my understanding is that if you want to raid current savage/ex content in a coordinated group, you pretty much have to break the rules.
I don't want to break the rules.
So, if I follow the ToS and keep away from groups that don't, I'm pretty much unable to play this game at a more competitive, harder content type level. After some years of playing, I have multiple 70's, MSQ capped, all normal/hard duties done, side quests, complete. I'm bored. I want a challenge, I want to theory craft and be called out when I mess up. But I also want to play the game legit.
Is this even possible? Or is it pretty much, use prohibited software or don't do HC raids/trials. I'm not going to break the ToS despite vehemently disagreeing with it. I'll just move to a game where it is allowed.
Before the flames come in... I am not pointing a finger at the raiding community, I am not holier than thou, I am fine with getting my feelings hurt, it is a game. However, I am also not okay with people bringing up parsing in PUGs that I'm in. I'm not going to break the rules because that ruins the game for me. I'd sooner just not play.
Any thoughts on this? Any alternative?
Legit Raiding Remotely Possible?
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03-26-2019, 02:56 AMbgd624624Legit Raiding Remotely Possible?
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03-26-2019, 02:59 AMAxlStream
All the statics I've ever been in use parsers. A fair ammount of PUGs use it as well. You will not find a decently competent group that doesn't.
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03-26-2019, 03:00 AMSendohJin
you don't have to use it yourself but if you want to avoid everyone who uses it, that's impossible.
no alternative. -
03-26-2019, 03:03 AMUserHere
Make your own No 3rd pt tools group? Idk this is such a weird set of restrictions to put on yourself. I feel like you are really over thinking the situation.
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03-26-2019, 03:05 AMAxlStream
Also it's worth to mention, it's only breaking the rule if you use in game chat to talk about it as you would get punished for harassment.
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03-26-2019, 03:07 AMWaterShieldNot many people will want you around in a static due to your stance. Your only option really is to PUG and pretend that other party members aren't "cheating".Quote:
Originally Posted by bgd624624
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03-26-2019, 03:13 AMUserHereWhat you don't know can't hurt you :)Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterShield
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03-26-2019, 03:13 AMSilverObi
Didn't you bring this up in a very similar thread like a week or two ago?
edit: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...cord-Bots-etc.
The discussion in your previous thread turned to parsing and whether or not its considered cheating and breaking ToS. You already got your answer that Yoshi-P is fine with them as long as you don't use them to harass other players. This feels like you still are on your kick that parser users should be removed from the game as its cheating in your subjective view. -
03-26-2019, 03:15 AMAlucard135Yoshi P says it's not cheating. https://youtu.be/3-WXYg-S05U?t=363Quote:
Originally Posted by bgd624624
And breaking TOS is not always cheating. If you insult someone, are you cheating then?
But answering your question, you can do savage content without dealing with a parser or any of that sort. But you won't know if you're doing good or bad or if you're holding your team down or not.
And if you're bored, you can become your own parser and read the battle log chatbox and do all the calculations as a parser would do. -
03-26-2019, 03:24 AMNihility
parsers don't really help you complete the fight if that's the cheating your talking about. Does help leaders figure out if they have someone that's not putting in any effort though. I've never used one personally but there will always be someone with it, even in random pug groups
Voice chat is a big deal to raiders, if your unwilling to use that your probably out of luck
and the actual cheating programs that tell you what to do and when and can even draw things on the screen... I feel like a lot more groups don't use that stuff than do -
03-26-2019, 05:47 PMNocturniaUzuki
Avoiding it isn't impossible. But is going to be about as hard as it is to find a static for anything unconvential. And I can attest to how hard that is.
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03-26-2019, 08:14 PMReinha
I think you will have to compromise on not playing with people who parse. But you don't have to parse yourself. You don't even have to know your numbers and compare yourself to others if you have a raid leader willing to tell you in what way and how much you have to improve.
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03-26-2019, 08:18 PMRisvertasashi
Feedback is important for high end fights. So, no, you aren't going to find a group above a very limited level where no one parses.
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03-26-2019, 08:33 PMOcieKo
Join a PS4 static, pretty simple way to do it.
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03-26-2019, 09:09 PMKhalithar
I’ve seen comments from other players that annoy me because they treat the parses as the only measure of skill when there’s a lot more to it than that. Using myself as an example, I tend to play it pretty safe in savage mode and don’t push my dps as much as I could because I’m way more focused on making sure I do mechanics correctly. In a fight like 12s where even one small mistake by one person can wipe the group I always prioritize the mechanic and won’t risk pushing my dps if it means I might mess up something and wipe the group, I’d rather play it safe.
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03-26-2019, 09:31 PMHyoMinPark
No, there is no such thing as “guilt by association” with regards to parsers in this game.
No, you will not be seen as “also cheating” by knowing someone who uses a parser.
No, you will not get in trouble for being in a party with and breathing the same virtual air as someone who is running a parser.
Yes, I think you’re making way too big a deal out of this. Since this is your third or fourth thread about the same topic. -
03-26-2019, 10:31 PMAxlStreamSure you can play safe. That's usually better if you just want to insure a clear but most groups also wabt to push their DPS as a whole. Once the fight is nailed down, those kind of strategies are perfectly fine to discuss/execute. Just depends on how comfortable the group is with the fight and eachother.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalithar
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03-26-2019, 10:34 PMKageTokage
I'd only be leery of partying with players who are using an obvious exploit or hack that can be traced easily should anyone decide to look into it.
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03-26-2019, 11:02 PMPentheaSE intentionally turn a blind eye to the use of parsers as long as they are used for self improvement. They understand why players use them even if it's against the ToS officially speaking. It's a grey area but as long as the team you're in doesn't use them to cause abuse or kick someone (yes even if they deserve it, SE are strongly against parsers being used for exclusion no matter the circumstances) then you don't have to worry about anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by bgd624624