5.0 Combat System Changes. Hopes and Expectations.

1. What changes do you think would be beneficial and mostly reasonable?

2. What changes, no holds barred, would you like to see? Pipedreams welcome.

3. What changes do you expect we'll get?



Have at it.

I would like to see an off hand implementation of different things. Right now it is mainly in the crafting system but I think it has a good deal of potential as a battle system because then you have the role actions, job actions, and off hand actions, which could vary for the type of item equipped. For example a ninja might have some ninja tools with three of four different sets of abilities depending on the type of too. a tank like dark knight might have a dirk or a paladin could choose between second sword, shield or club or a ranged attack weapon like a chain. the healers could throw enchanted rocks at party members and black mage could have a ceremonial knife to take party members life for invincibility. Machinist might have some AOE grenades and the Samuria could have some equipable incense with mystical qualities. I don't know, I'm just spit balling here I think it could be cool.

1. Probably re-implementing Role Actions as Raid Actions. Expand that into half a bar and use the tab to pick 4 actions while 2 are reserved for content. Maybe always show the last skill any player used on the party list, ideally with instant-cast spells, abilities, and weaponskills being greyed out, while having a bar that depletes if their global cooldown is still rolling.

2. You've seen enough of my tangents to know what I think for every job Shurrikan so I'll spare the wall of text today. Make everything synergistic and homogenize the tanks/healers in thematically appropriate ways.

3. Cure IV that we didn't need. WHM loses access to regens with no compensation and SCH gets the first and only smart AoE heal in the game in the form of their 80 capstone ability Fey Supplicant. Dancer is BRD but for slashing debuff. MCH remains in the dumpster.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

1. What changes do you think would be beneficial and mostly reasonable?

2. What changes, no holds barred, would you like to see? Pipedreams welcome.

3. What changes do you expect we'll get?

---

1. TP is confirmed to be removed. While some think this will lead to greater utilization of MP for jobs that didn't use it, I think it far more likely that we see greater emphasis on the secondary resources introduced in Heavensward and formalized in Stormblood. Monks utilize Chakra more, Dragoons see a return of their Timer reducers tied to OGCD offense boosts, Ninjas have their Ninjutsu and Ninki more closely tied together, so on and so forth. Stormblood always felt transitional to me for every job except Samurai and Red Mage, who were designed specifically with Stormblood's base changes in mind. I see Shadowbringers being, if not the final step for every job, then a greater realization of what they startered in Stormblood.

2. I want Weaponskill jobs to be more heavily differentiated, with weapon types reflected more in the weaponskill diversity. Warriors with heavy, but slow recovery swings, Dark Knights with interchangable combos like Seigfried from Soul Calibur, Ninjas with more multi-strike weaponskills, more diversity in ranged weaponskills (Some cast time, some 'ranged positional' to make greater use of Ranged's free range). Weaponskills should be the baseline for jobs to feel different, not the secondary mechanics.

More situational spell diversity. Magic mostly works on priority systems in this game, but we have so few weighted choices to make regarding that. AF/UI Timer spenders, DoT detonations, Chain attacks, pulsing effects, effectively spells you can throw onto a 3x3 "Side deck" toolbar that you swap around based on encounter or need. Not necessarily a talent system - just spells that have use, but don't always have use.

3. Ability rank increases, current Abilities / traits being folded into the base actions they stem from, and Stone 5 for White Mage.

Dont expect anything lol.
I'd want skill tree or such, where you can spec any job for any role.
Wish they would stop removing skills, to make room for new ones, to prevents skill bloat, and split skills beetween roles instead.
Also different weapon stance/combat styles, so you could use lets say melee aoe stance, or single Target dps, or defensive stance - each stance having its own skills.
Unlocking classes, so you could have Lancer Dark Knight, or whatever.

I want a new jump guys. Its time. Its been 6 years. Give us a new jump.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

1. What changes do you think would be beneficial and mostly reasonable?

---

Stop denying Healer DPS. It doesn't have to be mandatory at lower level things (EX dungeons included; nobody reasonably cares if you only use 10% of your kit in dungeons, I'm convinced everybody I've ever run with in pugs does just that). Maybe relax a little bit and explore what identities for a healer one could find through that avenue: if White Mage is pure healing / pure damage, make it do the damage needed to deserve that title. Maybe add a Necromancer who does damage through healing allies; "Klaatu Barada Nicto: Heals for 300 potency. 10% of damage healed is afflicted to target's target." Et cetera, and so on. Maybe a healer whose off globals are tantamount to tank cooldowns, but do damage back. "Bone Cage: Buffs an ally with 'Armored'; any enemy that damages this ally takes 10% of damage dealt as damage to themselves."

I'm not good at designing jobs or healers. But to me, it seems evident that they backed themselves into a corner with healer design. What was it Urianger said...? "We can accept [Healer dps], or defy it, but we cannot deny it."

Quote:

---

2. What changes, no holds barred, would you like to see? Pipedreams welcome.

---

Split Ranged DPS into their own Support role, increase dungeon size to 5 with 1 support, 2 damage dealers, 1 tank, 1 healer. 8 mans increase to 10 man with 2 support, 4 damage dealer, 2 tank, 2 healer. With the game's focus on DPS, they would still deal more damage than tanks, but with them not being full DDs, they don't have to end up competing for spots with full-fledged DDs.

You said pipedreams welcome lol

Quote:

---

3. What changes do you expect we'll get?

---

I'm trying to expect nothing, because then I can't really be disappointed. :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Split Ranged DPS into their own Support role, increase dungeon size to 5 with 1 support, 2 damage dealers, 1 tank, 1 healer. 8 mans increase to 10 man with 2 support, 4 damage dealer, 2 tank, 2 healer. With the game's focus on DPS, they would still deal more damage than tanks, but with them not being full DDs, they don't have to end up competing for spots with full-fledged DDs.

You said pipedreams welcome lol :/

---

This please! With as many dps as we have and are given throughout expansions, and with the dev. team's prioritization of equalizing how many jobs are within each role, this would alleviate soooo many issues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

1. What changes do you think would be beneficial and mostly reasonable?

---

Combo consolidation.

Basically, instead of having combo's taking up 3 buttons. Make them into one button that shifts through as you combo, like the PvP deal.

In addition, create new skills for those combo finishers that fork off the same 1/2 skills (For example instead of PLD having Fast Blade > Riot Blade > EITHER Royal Authority or Goring Blade you instead make it so that you get something like FB > RB > GB and Stab > Slash > Royal Authority) - Effectively reducing the number of buttons needed via adding new skills.

That way, classes with 3 different finishers only need 3 buttons for them all. Instead of the current where it's 3 buttons for EACH combo (Or at best 4 buttons for 2 different finishers, so for example PLD uses 7 buttons for its 3 basic 123 combos)

The only class I can see an issue for, is MNK because of the way their "Combo's" work... Unless you sorted them by positional requirements? So for example Bootshine > True Strike > Demolish, Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Snap Punch. With all the actions progressing depending on what Form is active (P.S. I would love if Opo-Opo Form was the baseline state so you didn't have to Form Shift to start a fight with Dragon Kick's bonus...)

REMOVAL of 100% uptime debuffs such as Slashing, Piercing and Blunt (Though that last one won't be an issue until we get another job that mashes faces)

REMOVAL of Protect, at least in its current waste of time state where it provides literally nothing to gameplay (Green Mage plx)

Role Actions killed and redistributed as Class Actions where relevant. Give them some job specific flavours if you wish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

2. What changes, no holds barred, would you like to see? Pipedreams welcome.

---

I cannot say. As it means mentioning the Job That Shall Not Be Named and thus summon the hate brigade to come and derail the thread >.>

Edit: I may as well put in some pipedreams that don't relate to me writing a thesis on each class *Cough*

GCD reduced to 2s down from 2.5s (It feels 100x better to play when having enough SkS for ~2s GCD) with less reliance on oGCD weaving >.>

Stats that mean something. So that there's reason to have multiple primary stats for example. Make them all have some benefit for each class with just main stats being extra good for the class instead of the ONLY stat that's good for the class.

More diversity in secondary stats. Make it so that Crit isn't the god stat that triple dips into damage increase (It increases your chance at critting. It increases the damage of your crits. It generates more LB because crits have a bonus for LB generation.). Allow for more options as well as some more interesting stats like Multistrike (Call it Chain or something), Reuse Reduction etc.

More interesting materia. Make it less like "Build a BiS item" and more like FFVII where you slot in skills and effects and what not.

Rework to Limit Breaks. Both their generation and usage. Make them individual and provide much less impact but can be used more frequently (For example, what if Tanks used LB's to absorb Tankbusters for example) so that not everything has to be scrutinized by "Well this generates LB gauge so is a large tDPS boost!!!!" that things like crappy AoE shields from WAR/PLD are >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

3. What changes do you expect we'll get?

---

At least 1 of the Tanks will be unplayable garbage during 5.0.

At least 1 of the Healers will be unplayable garbage during all of 5.x

BLM will get at least 1 new skill that they don't give a damn about because its not Fire IV.

A bunch of meaningless [Skill] +1 ranks that give like 10-20 potency increase and that's it.

Yes, I'm cynical.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalise

Yes, I'm cynical.

---

This is fair. I probably should have swapped sections 2 and 3 if I wanted a happier ending to each post, but was afraid the crippling reality prior would then quell any zeal for larger improvements bored forumers might otherwise have.

My two cents, as this thread will probably be buried soon (since Devil's 3/25 thread covers the same content):

Quote:

---

1. What changes do you think would be beneficial and mostly reasonable?

---

• Cutting back on fluff raid buffs, especially ones that don't notably adjust gameplay or composition in any way -- in favor of shorter bursts of effect that are more rewarding to coordinate in what few cases they're kept at all. Thus, something like Trick Attack would obviously stay, but Devotion or Bard's passive buff from when singing would not.

  Raid shield abilities, likewise, must be either significant enough to shave a GCD of intensive healing or shielding, or they're gone. (Divine Veil, for instance, might absorb damage and then further heal it for a %MissingHP-dependent amount once actually damaged, as not to outpace a good Succor, while Shake it Off would be replaced by Thrill of Battle + Warcry, granting additional %maximum HP and some lifesteal to all allies, as to again be significant without breaking the threat behind upcoming raidwide damage.)

• Replace permanent typal damage-vulnerability debuffs. Broaden effects such as Embolden and Brotherhood. Revise effects such as Contagion.
• More skills will no longer break combos. Combo cancellation will now only occur with the completion of actions which can cancel combos, rather than the beginnings of their attempts.
• Raid buffs which grant bonus chance (e.g. Crit chance) where that chance is normally afforded by stats now reroll the relevant stat cost for its higher tier, effectively keeping its stat-to-%throughput value equal with or without the buff. Higher base %stats, due in part to less deflation over leveling, but lower growth over time. Every job will have about the same dependency on Critical Hit, mechanically speaking, for greater or lesser accordant gameplay dependence across the game.
• Stat growths made more linear in their effectiveness, making it less obligatory to specialize in one extreme or another.
• Further consolidation of mutually exclusive keys, such as Blizzard IV and Fire IV or Ley Lines and Between the Lines.
• Trimming of Role Actions to just the most effective or interesting. If obligatory, they're now part of the base kit in varying, synergetic manners.

Examples among the Healer Role Actions:

• Protect removed.
• Break removed. Stone (I-IV) now have a unique-DR stacking-duration heavy effect. Miasma (I-III) again heavy enemies, stacking between I/III and II. Stella returned, with both a heavy effect that can ramp up in duration and intensity and a chance to rip buffs from enemies.
• Largesse removed. Healing jobs have been given new mechanics to allow for choice burst GCD healing beyond the mere choice of more expensive or more direct healing spells.
• Lucid Dreaming removed from Healers. Base MP regen and offensive spells' MP costs reduced to compensate.
• Esuna removed. Esuna-equivalents included in base healer toolkits, in varying synergetic forms. Esuna returned to White Mage as a somewhat expensive half-GCD with a 50% chance of procs that make its next use free and oGCD. Energy Drain and Stella may now be used on allies, whereby Energy Drain steals and banks the cleansable debuff to be used against an enemy and makes the next Energy Drain cast free while Stella cleanses the debuff and immunizes the ally to the cleansable status effects of the same type for up to 5 seconds.
• Surecast removed. Replaced with Sacred Shroud, which doubles as Surecast + Lucid Dreaming's enmity reduction. If used on self, this purges debuffs and restores 20% missing HP, trims enmity based on %HP, and grants Sacred Shroud for 3 seconds, reducing damage taken by 20% and preventing debuffs and most knockbacks from being afflicted against you.Used on allies, this cleanses debuffs and grants Veil for 3 seconds, preventing debuffs and most knockbacks. 60-second cooldown.
• Rescue replaced with Lifeline, which gives both caster and target access to Lifeline, which causes would-be critical-HP damage to be siphoned from one to the other and allows the target to use the Lifeline Duty Action to teleport to the caster's position. Possession swaps any time the Lifeline duty action is used (treating the former target as the caster and former caster as the target). 12-second duration. Any use (siphon or duty action) trims 3 seconds of duration. 90-second cooldown. (This damage-transfer will only occur if the original damage would kill neither the caster nor target. It will not be able to act as a half-immunity.)
• Cleric Stance changed to Dilemma. Each healing or damaging spell cast now grants 10% of its potency to the next healing or damaging spell, compounding. If one casts the opposite category of spell, the potency reward is doubled but the effect ends upon the cast's completion. Lasts up to 12 seconds. 2 minute cooldown. 6 seconds of cooldown refunded for each second of duration wasted.
• Eye for an Eye revised. Each time the target ally takes damage, 15% of its HP lost will generate Eye for an Eye, which increases the damage or healing dealt by your or the tank's own skills, up to a maximum of 10% increased damage or healing per skill, to a maximum of the stored amount. Lasts 12 seconds. 2 minute cooldown.
• Pick 2 of 4, or, if more are added, 3 of 5-6.

Quote:

---

2. What changes, no holds barred, would you like to see? Pipedreams welcome.

---

Too long for now; will add in via [HB] later.

Quote:

---

What changes do you expect we'll get?

---

• Streamlining.
• Negligent pruning sure to create issues later for those who actually play the affected jobs at a decent level.
• Potency-buff traits/"Masteries".
• Vaguely to scarcely useful traits.
• Revamps to the most cohesive jobs. Clunkiest classes gutted in the process of "smoothing" or left just as haphazard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalise

I cannot say. As it means mentioning the Job That Shall Not Be Named and thus summon the hate brigade to come and derail the thread >.>

---

I SENSE WARRIOR TALK!! :mad:

I just wish people would hush up about support classes, imo they aren't true support, just dps for elitist. Healers are your support job because they keep you alive, if I could have anything it would be the reveal that dancer is a selfish physical ranged class in the vein of sam, rdm and blm, that would be classic.