Is it possible that the Au Ra were an allagan experiment?

I was talking this over with a friend recently and I thought it was interesting. He pointed out how the Xaela's holy relics were actually allagan in origin, which calls to mind how the Ixal's holy land was actually Azys Lla.

In the Aetherochemical Research Facility there is this plaque that talks about them trying to artificially create a voidsent and that "future research look promising." So maybe the Au Ra are the result of them trying to combine a hyur/elezen/whatever with a voidsent?


If that's the case, it makes me wonder what the deal with the dusk mother and dawn father in Au Ra creation myth really is.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

It makes me wonder what the deal with the dusk mother and dawn father in Au Ra creation myth really is.

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There was a fan theory put forward many months ago, about how the creation myth could be linked to dragons from the First Brood.

I don't personally support the theory. I am of the opinion that the creation myth is more likely to be a half-remembered history of the split between Hydaelyn and Zodiark. But the dragon theory enjoyed quite a lot of support at the time, so make of it what you will.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

I was talking this over with a friend recently and I thought it was interesting. He pointed out how the Xaela's holy relics were actually allagan in origin, which calls to mind how the Ixal's holy land was actually Azys Lla.

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Unless I'm mistaken, it's only the House of the Crooked Coin that is explicitly an Allagan relic. And, from what I gather, not all of the tribes hold the place in equal esteem. Only some do, chief among them being the Dotharl.

But then again, almost anything and everything could point to the Allagan. They're Eorzea's equivalent of our own penchant for attributing anything and everything to aliens from outer space. There are hints, for example, that the lalafell could have been bio-engineered by the Allagans, so, yeah, who knows?

What's for certain is that the known races that existed during the height of the Allagan Empire included hyurs, elezen and miqo'te. We don't know for certain if roegadyn and lalafell existed at that time. So, your guess is as good as mine.

The artificial voidsent experiment went well and probably isn't a reference to Au Ra. We see some of the artificial voidsent in Fractal Continuum and wandering around in Azys Lla (Naga and Empuse). We also know from the Arache Web tooltip that they cloned Arachne (first boss of Weeping City) specifically so the Allagans could mass produce her fibers. So far, all the artificial voidsent we have seen look exactly like their "natural" voidsent counterparts.

We actually don't know if the Xaela holy relics are Allagan in origin. We do know they are as old as Allag is though. If you compare the Auri myth with what we know of Allagan history, we can even make a pretty good guess as to who the traveler in the Auri myth is. It either is Amon himself, or another scientist working with him. We also know that Azys Lla was constructed by the time Xande was conquering Meracydia. Dalamud's launch would have happened after the war was won. What I find very interesting about the myth is that traveler in the Auri Myth doesn't create the Xaela relic (the Crystal from the House of the Crooked Coin) himself. Instead it says he asks Nhaama for help and the crystal was something Nhaama gave him. Which I find odd given that for the latter part of it's history, the Allagans were atheists. Why would someone who was probably heavily involved in Allagan aetherochemistry be associated with asking a high power for anything?

While I think the Xaela holy relic being something the Allagans constructed is a valid reading, I can't shake the idea that it could have been something that pre-dated the Allagans and that they just found it in the middle of nowhere. And then realized that they could store and move around large quantities with it. Ironically, some of the lore book entries on weapons have weapons that pre-date the Allagans and indicate that not even the Allagans could understand how they worked or were made (the "Omni" mage weapons). So there is a precedent for the Allagans not knowing how to create old items associated with magecraft. On the other hand, we do know of something else in the game that is very similar to the Xaela holy relic: the Crystal Tower. Both of those crystals are capable of manipulating and channeling huge quantities of aether on a scale never seen elsewhere in the game. And we do know that the Crystal Tower was created by the Allagans. On the other hand, the Crystal Tower was created sometime after the first Xande's death and before the time of Amon. If the Allagans were so good at creating crystals that could manipulate and store aether on a huge scale, why have a story about them going all the way over to Othard to find another power source? and it wasn't even once that the Allagans did that. The first time was to ask for something that could redirect/store aether. The second time was to use that stored aether to launch Dalamud. Either way, I get the feeling we are missing some information somewhere. Either about in what state the Allagans were in at the time of the Meracydian Conquest or about what the Xaela holy relic is actually doing. Given that we have a lot less lore about the Xaela then the Allgans, I'm thinking that it's the Xaela we don't know enough about.

What stands out to me about the Au Ra creation myth is how different it is compared to the other myth systems in the game. Both the Twelve and the Eastern Kami are portrayed as being of the planet in some way. Either because the Twelve were born of it and then created the world around them or because the Kami are associated with dwelling in things in the world for long periods of time. Azim and Nhaama start out as the Sun and the Moon and are portrayed as starting in the heavens. And even back then they are fighting with each other. Their purpose in coming to the planet is to give birth to proxies that can fight their war for them. Only, it turns out that the proxies of the gods don't keep fighting each other, but make peace instead. This leads to Azim and Nhaama to stop fighting and going back to being the sun and the moon. According to the Oronir they fall in love with each other, but some of the descriptions for the other tribes (particularly the Kagon) makes it sound like other tribes have different endings to that particular myth. And it's like... warring deities who are opposites of each other and fight each other through proxies... where have we heard that story/history before? I'm wondering if the Auri Creation Myth is a bastardization of the story of Hydaelyn and Zodiark and someone gave it a "good ending" over the four thousand years the Xaela have been around. Out of all the myth systems we know of, it's the one that fits the version of events that Hydaelyn told us the best.

I assumed the relic to be something made by the allagans because I think the runes on it resemble the kind you see in the crystal tower and other allagan places, but I didn't really compare them side by side or anything. It could be that it is even predates the allagans. I guess the thing that made me curious was just the fact the Au Ra homeland happened to be this place with a significant meaning to the allagans. When you combine that with their wildly different creation myth in comparison to what the other races believe, makes me think they could be connected somehow.


It could all just be a coincidence though. lol

I don't think Au Ra were created by the Allagans, but I'm sure they were heavily influenced by them. The Dawn and Dusk throne look like halves of an ADS.

We also know that one of the founding members of the Onishishu that created Heaven on High was a Raen and that it was created shortly after the fall of the Alaggan Empire.

What I find the most interesting that is that Fernhawles tried to make a connection between Azeyma and Azim

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The next question is about getting more information on the Au Ra. Luckily I have an answer that I received from Oda-san before the PLL. I first talk about the Xaela and how they mainly reside as nomads in an area known as the Azim Steppe (which, in relation to Doma is to the immediate northwest). Azim is the sun deity and it is believed that it is her light and blessing that allows the grass to grow that feeds their herds. Now, astute players may recognize a similarity between Azim the sun deity and Azeyma the Warden...also connected to the sun... However, the Au Ra do not worship the Twelve...nor do most other people living outside Eorzea, as belief in the Twelve is pretty much restricted to Eorzea. That is not to say however that somewhere in the past the two gods were... (and Yoshi-P cuts me off).

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Prior to Xande's revival, the Allagans did worship the 12 at one point and with them conquering the 3 continents there might have been some cultural exchanges. So maybe the Au Ra integrated what they liked about Azeyma into their lore and eventually became Azim after the fall. Or maybe Azim predated the Allagans.

The only other race we know pre-dates the Allagans are the Anata as the devs told us that. We have to remember that the Allagans didn't become as advanced as they were until they stumbled onto Omega and even they couldn't fix it or understand all of the functions they could get working. For me I always go with voidsent as for one it wouldn't be the Allagans and there's a lot of strange combinations of voidsent.

j like the idea of being a half blood voidsent

According to patch 4.5 main story...

... the existence of all demi-hyurs, including the Au Ra, are a result of Hydaelyn banishing Zodiark long ago, causing the world to split into 13 Shards, which in turn caused mankind to split from one original race into many. At least that's what Garlean Emperor Varis zos Galvus says. The banishing of Zodiark happened long before Allagan existed.

We don't really know more than that, I think.

Another interesting point I saw someone raise once, is that according to the lorebook, the "original" Garuda seems to have been a female Allagan general - and while the primal is more birdlike, it could be possible that the original was an Au Ra, with scales rather than feathers.

That doesn't necessarily imply the Allagans created the race, but makes it more possible that they were present in Azys Lla.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

They're Eorzea's equivalent of our own penchant for attributing anything and everything to aliens from outer space.

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Except they actually, confirmably exist and have had a clear influence on the world.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

There are hints, for example, that the lalafell could have been bio-engineered by the Allagans, so, yeah, who knows?

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Was that the weird 'fish' description? I took that to be more of an "unfortunate accident involving a Lalafell" than trying to claim the entire race was engineered.

And/or the writers' love of targeting Lalafells for misfortune in flavour-text entries.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

We don't know for certain if roegadyn and lalafell existed at that time. So, your guess is as good as mine.

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Actually, one of Sophia's demiurges is a Roegadyn - and since they were imprisoned by the Allagans, we know there were Roegadyn at that time.

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Originally Posted by Lacan

I assumed the relic to be something made by the allagans because I think the runes on it resemble the kind you see in the crystal tower and other allagan places, but I didn't really compare them side by side or anything. It could be that it is even predates the allagans.

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I agree. It's also worth comparing the "spinner rook" enemies in Azys Lla, as they seem to be made of a crystal quite similar to the House of the Crooked Coin.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

The only other race we know pre-dates the Allagans are the Anata as the devs told us that.

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Where was that? I didn't know about it, so I'd assumed the Ananta must be implied Allagan constructs like the Ixal.

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Originally Posted by manamoppet

According to patch 4.5 main story...

... the existence of all demi-hyurs, including the Au Ra, are a result of Hydaelyn banishing Zodiark long ago, causing the world to split into 13 Shards, which in turn caused mankind to split from one original race into many. At least that's what Garlean Emperor Varis zos Galvus says. The banishing of Zodiark happened long before Allagan existed.

We don't really know more than that, I think.

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That's very dubious information at this point - and likely to have originated from the Ascians. Is it the truth, or are they telling him what he wants to hear?

At very least, there will be more to the explanation than what we've been told so far.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

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My interpretation is that since there are definitely hyurs, lalafells, miqo'tes, elezen and roegadyns on other shards (i.e. The First), and that since Omega, and by extension the Allagans, only existed on the Source, the likelyhood any of those 5 races (at least) are allagan creations is a lot less substantiated than people otherwise propose, and thus the information provided by Varis is the best thing we have to go on atm, even knowing the lack of credibility of its source. Of course this is playing on the idea that the Sundering didn't create 13 completely new universes with their own Omega and Midgardsormr but rather a localised dimensional anomaly.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Except they actually, confirmably exist and have had a clear influence on the world.

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Yes, of course, but I'm referring to the meme, not about whether Allagans really existed in Eorzea. You know, if in doubt, "the Allagans did it".

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Was that the weird 'fish' description? I took that to be more of an "unfortunate accident involving a Lalafell" than trying to claim the entire race was engineered.

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Yup. Specifically, aetherochemical compound #123.

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Unlike anything else on Eorzea, compound #123 is thought to be another of the Allagan Empire's failed chimeric creations. The creature seems to be harmless enough, feeding only on the tiny water lice which inhabit Azys Lla's aetherochemical pools. Its outer hide, however, has given many a naturalist pause as it bears a texture almost identical to that of a lalafell's skin.

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Yes, it's open to interpretation. To me, it seems to suggest that the compound may actually be a failed interim attempt to create a lalafell. Make of it what you will. ;)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Actually, one of Sophia's demiurges is a Roegadyn - and since they were imprisoned by the Allagans, we know there were Roegadyn at that time.

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It's been a long time, and I went back to check my records and, yes, you're right. The Third Demiurge was, in fact, a roegadyn. No lalafells, though. Hmm...

I can't remember where I know that the Anata were around before the Allagans but it's either from the first lore book or it was mentioned in a lore pannel. It was part of the making of the lamia in that only the lamia are Allagan creations and based off the Anata.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

What stands out to me about the Au Ra creation myth is how different it is compared to the other myth systems in the game. Both the Twelve and the Eastern Kami are portrayed as being of the planet in some way. Either because the Twelve were born of it and then created the world around them or because the Kami are associated with dwelling in things in the world for long periods of time. Azim and Nhaama start out as the Sun and the Moon and are portrayed as starting in the heavens. And even back then they are fighting with each other. Their purpose in coming to the planet is to give birth to proxies that can fight their war for them. Only, it turns out that the proxies of the gods don't keep fighting each other, but make peace instead. This leads to Azim and Nhaama to stop fighting and going back to being the sun and the moon. According to the Oronir they fall in love with each other, but some of the descriptions for the other tribes (particularly the Kagon) makes it sound like other tribes have different endings to that particular myth. And it's like... warring deities who are opposites of each other and fight each other through proxies... where have we heard that story/history before? I'm wondering if the Auri Creation Myth is a bastardization of the story of Hydaelyn and Zodiark and someone gave it a "good ending" over the four thousand years the Xaela have been around. Out of all the myth systems we know of, it's the one that fits the version of events that Hydaelyn told us the best.

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Well keep in mind that even in the Hero of Lights own Time facts of thier exploits are being blown up fantasized and romanticized alongside the actual facts so... four thousand years later the Warrior of Light is going to wind up some egnimatic deity that came down from the heavens and sorted out all the evils of the world at the time alongside the children of the gods (the Scions) before returning to the heavens to rule over them or some such nonsense. We've beaten and curbstomped allagan legends in our time think on that.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That's very dubious information at this point - and likely to have originated from the Ascians. Is it the truth, or are they telling him what he wants to hear?

At very least, there will be more to the explanation than what we've been told so far.

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True that. I'm more in favor of the tales of the Dusk Mother and Dawn Father being a re-telling of the Split, like TinyRedLeaf said,

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

There was a fan theory put forward many months ago, about how the creation myth could be linked to dragons from the First Brood.

I don't personally support the theory. I am of the opinion that the creation myth is more likely to be a half-remembered history of the split between Hydaelyn and Zodiark.

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Mixed with some re-tellings and influence from other religions, with maybe some alterations each Rejoining/Calamity. It's also possible that instead of being far removed offspring of dragons, the Au Ra originated from people long ago somehow affected by dragon influence/aether, in a way similar to the Padjal being Hyurs touched by Elementals.

But yeah, we'll probably know more what is true of what the Ascians are lying or not lying about sometime in future content.

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Originally Posted by manamoppet

demi-hyurs

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Better to use the phrase "demi-human" I think. Hyur are just another race, not the "original" race of which the other races are imperfect images. Yes, they happen to resemble real humans, and so it's natural to assume that they are the "normal" type that the other races differ from, but if Varis's ravings hold any water the supposed precursor race could as easily be Lalafell as Hyur, with all the other races being imperfect reflections of them.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Where was that? I didn't know about it, so I'd assumed the Ananta must be implied Allagan constructs like the Ixal.

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It was definitely stated somewhere that the Lamia are the result of Allagan experimentation on the Ananta, so we know that the Ananta were around during the time of the Allagans. It's technically possible that the Ananta, too, were created by the Allagans, but I'd argue that the implication is that they were a natural race that the Allagans toyed with.

I personally feel the same about the lalafish, that they are the result of experimentation on Lalas, not part of the process of engineering them. I acknowledge that there is room for interpretation. :P

My headcanon is that the original race looked like Garleans but they didn't have the third eye and the reduced ability to manipulate aether. Maybe both those traits were the result of Hydaelyn fracturing the source and in the process "scarring" them with the third eye and stripping them of their magic ability while giving rise to all the others races.

It'd also explain why only pureblooded garleans have the eye since some aspect of all the other races must cancel it out. :v If that makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That's very dubious information at this point - and likely to have originated from the Ascians. Is it the truth, or are they telling him what he wants to hear?

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Knowing the Ascians, it may very well be both...