Some worries / suggestions about the gameplay of Shadowbringers

Hello to all those who will read me.
(and sorry if there are grammatical mistakes in this text, I used Google trad :p)

Here, I ask myself some questions about the evolution of the gameplay of the game over extensions.


Who says new extension says new levels, and therefore necessarily new spells / abilities.
Now, it seems equally obvious that adding new actions also requires each extension to remove some already existing to not end up with an indigestible number of actions when we will be level 100 (one day), especially for console players.

But that's exactly what's bothering me: removing existing actions.
- On the one hand, this tends to break the feeling of rising power.
We have the impression in this case of having to pex again to regain the power we had before rather than continue to progress, which is "blah" for a RPG ...
- On the other hand, because this tends to distort the old content as it was designed.


I speak knowingly, as I left WoW in large part because the game was totally distorted and became incoherent as a whole because of this overly repeated principle of gameplay changes over extensions.

But FF14 does an admirable job in my opinion (so far) in preserving its old content (especially via level synchronization!)
Heavensward had not even changed the level 50 gameplay and had only added actions without removing any. It was great in my opinion ! :D
Stormblood on the other hand has already set foot in a direction that worries me in the long run: deletion of actions, drastic changes to the statistics sheet ...


So I wondered how to avoid this phenomenon that seems at first sight inevitable on a MMO that lives a long time, and I thought of one thing: the functioning of the actions of the blue mage.

Would it not be possible to imagine future extensions only adding actions and removing none (as Heavensward did), but at the same time limiting the number of actions that are possible to "equip" simultaneously?

Oh, it would not even be necessary to try to balance the 60 or so actions that a job could - in the long run - have in total.
Some actions could be clearly thought to be abandoned for the benefit of others once a certain level is reached, but these same actions would still be of interest in the lower levels of the game.


What do you think ?

I don't think limiting the number of actions that can be used is the right way to do it, as seen via the role actions. Blue Mage is probably a special case, having not played it.

Also, removing actions should not be seen as weakening the character as your stats remain relatively the same. Think of it as growing more experience and not having to do certain actions due to that increased experience (although I can understand that some removed actions are desired by some players).

While possible, you would have to split all actions into two categories, required and non-required. Being able to play a tank and opt out of your 1-2-3 Enmity rotation and defensive CDs is no good.

I would still say one of the better options (even if people claim it reduces skill rofl) would be to at least optionally allow ability rotation buttons like what is currently enabled for PVP, quite frankly 1-1-1 and 1-2-3 aren't much different skill wise and being able to press CTRL+6/7 is less kill and more your hand is huge/keyboard is small. A lot of buttons can be eliminated as opposed to the abilities themselves. On the other hand, every single finisher needs its own button, so it does still have a limitation. But pretty much every tank and dps gets 3 button slots back in this case. There are cases where this would make a class easier to play but not so much that it changes much, and with proper working a lot of things could be pretty intuitive. One example of it getting easier would be RDM automatically changing Verthunder into Verfire, and Veraero into Verstone (I hope I put em in the right order).

But no matter what MMO it is, adding more abilities results in the need for harder physical controls, harder combo sytems, or a way to reduce the number of usable skills. Also this game doesn't use many long term abilities which can effectively feel "bloat-proof" since you don't really need convenient access to them. I.E. Protect, which most leave convenient enough that they could refresh it on a rezed person if they want to, but probably not in a small window. It's used so infrequently you could probably get away with manually entering the script to cast it being a legit way of having access to it at all times.

And the option of don't add new skills is challenging to say the least and is quite conditional on the games character setup. Not even sure the few Horizontal Progress MMOs have quite figured it out yet. But nearly positive no Vertical Progression MMO that has updates has figured it out.

The issue with having multiple actions to "Equip" is then trying to balance jobs around having an "Optimal" set up without people who don't follow that being shunned or kicked for groups.

Meanwhile, FFXIV actually has a system that bypasses the issue of button bloat, in that it has the Trait system that allows them to "Upgrade" skills as you reach specific levels.

The trait system could literally be used to keep level 1-50 skill advancement intact, while merely upgrading skills into "New" ones later. It doesn't necessarily have to be in the form of Stone becoming Stone II becoming Stone III etc. As we have precedent of skills changing completely (For example, at level 70 WAR's Berserk becomes Inner Release and gains additional functionality)

This can also be used in addition to single button skill cycling. So instead of needing 3 buttons to do your 123 combo, you simply need a single button that swaps between skill 1, skill 2 and skill 3 depending on how far you've progressed into the combo. This further increases the room for additional skills to be utilized within a kit by allowing 2-3 skills take up only a single button of action bar space.

So long as they adjust gameplay correctly so that for example, Paladin wouldn't be spending levels 1-60 pressing 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 forever because of lack of any other skills to use beside their single combo. It would open up plenty of space for additional skills in the future without either messing with lower level gameplay nor with end game balance.

If other games with skill rotation buttons are any indicator, for the example of PLD, once Riot Blade and Savage Blade are unlocked, a player could go 1-1 or 2-1 and 1-2 or 2-2 for those combos. Essentially speaking any shared continue would progress all of them.
So continuing with PLD in this case...
Rage of Halone = 1, Goring Blade = 2, Royal Authority = 3.
RH Combo = 1-1-1, 2-1-1, 3-1-1
GB Combo = 1-2-2, 1-3-2, 2-2-2, 2-3-2, 3-2-2, 3-3-2
RA Combo = 1-2-3, 1-3-3, 2-2-3, 2-3-3, 3-3-3

There's nothing wrong with combining the uses of abilities to make room for new ones. Or even giving you traits which "upgrade" current abilities into new ones.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by linay

I don't think limiting the number of actions that can be used is the right way to do it, as seen via the role actions. Blue Mage is probably a special case, having not played it.

Also, removing actions should not be seen as weakening the character as your stats remain relatively the same. Think of it as growing more experience and not having to do certain actions due to that increased experience (although I can understand that some removed actions are desired by some players).

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I just don't want to see MORE actions. Replace mediocre ones, but no more. I bought a new keypad just for this game, and I've pretty much used up all the available keys on it. (Even redefined the ALT key to a regular key). I can't fit any more actions unless I click them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

I just don't want to see MORE actions. Replace mediocre ones, but no more. I bought a new keypad just for this game, and I've pretty much used up all the available keys on it. (Even redefined the ALT key to a regular key). I can't fit any more actions unless I click them.

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Just curious, do you have an MMO mouse with 9-15 buttons on the side? I got one about 9 or 10 years ago now and I would never go back to a regular mouse. And it opens up a ton of hotkey options.

I want to believe they'll remove most if not all role actions and try something else, which would already alleviate skill bloat greatly.

I feel the ideal way to go about it would be removing useless skill/combining them to free up a few hot-bar slots, then give us one or two new skills, and upgrading some of the old ones with traits or such.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

I just don't want to see MORE actions. Replace mediocre ones, but no more. I bought a new keypad just for this game, and I've pretty much used up all the available keys on it. (Even redefined the ALT key to a regular key). I can't fit any more actions unless I click them.

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Yeah, I can understand that. I use a controller, and I think it's been manageable, although it can be challenging trying to play dark knight for me personally. Like I said in another thread, I think 25 is an ideal number of abilities (not counting abilities that would replace other abilities depending on level or stance) while leaving room for non-combat actions for a controller.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by linay

while leaving room for non-combat actions for a controller.

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You can actually have the game auto swap your bars when your in/out of combat. You really only need like 2-5 abilities pre-pull and you can get away with 1. Or you can macro a button to manually switch to combat bars and just allow the auto function take you out of combat bars.

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Originally Posted by OcieKo

You can actually have the game auto swap your bars when your in/out of combat. You really only need like 2-5 abilities pre-pull and you can get away with 1. Or you can macro a button to manually switch to combat bars and just allow the auto function take you out of combat bars.

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How to auto swap? I try not to use macros nowadays, gone crazy with them in the past.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by linay

How to auto swap? I try not to use macros nowadays, gone crazy with them in the past.

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function only works on controller, which from the flow so far, you play with.

So... [O] Lit Box, [X] Unlit Box
System > Character Settings > Hotbar Settings > Custom
Set Selection
[O] Enable auto hotbar switching when drawing/sheathing weapon.
[O] Enable customization for when weapon is sheathed.
[X] Hotbar 1 [X] Hotbar 5
[X] Hotbar 2 [X] Hotbar 6
[X] Hotbar 3 [O] Hotbar 7
[X] Hotbar 4 [X] Hotbar 8
[O] Enable customization for when weapon is drawn.
[O] Hotbar 1 [X] Hotbar 5
[X] Hotbar 2 [X] Hotbar 6
[X] Hotbar 3 [X] Hotbar 7
[X] Hotbar 4 [X] Hotbar 8

So when I set it up like this, when ever I sheathed my weapon it would automatically turn my main hotbar to #7 from whichever I was on, and when i drew my weapon it would go to hotbar #1 from anywhere.

Yay PS4 player taking the time learn how to use the cross hotbars even more after 5 years of playing KB&M on PS4 lol... Judge me all you want... (Yes I play KB&M on PS4)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OcieKo

function only works on controller, which from the flow so far, you play with.

So... [O] Lit Box, [X] Unlit Box
System > Character Settings > Hotbar Settings > Custom
Set Selection
[O] Enable auto hotbar switching when drawing/sheathing weapon.
[O] Enable customization for when weapon is sheathed.
[X] Hotbar 1 [X] Hotbar 5
[X] Hotbar 2 [X] Hotbar 6
[X] Hotbar 3 [O] Hotbar 7
[X] Hotbar 4 [X] Hotbar 8
[O] Enable customization for when weapon is drawn.
[O] Hotbar 1 [X] Hotbar 5
[X] Hotbar 2 [X] Hotbar 6
[X] Hotbar 3 [X] Hotbar 7
[X] Hotbar 4 [X] Hotbar 8

So when I set it up like this, when ever I sheathed my weapon it would automatically turn my main hotbar to #7 from whichever I was on, and when i drew my weapon it would go to hotbar #1 from anywhere.

Yay PS4 player taking the time learn how to use the cross hotbars even more after 5 years of playing KB&M on PS4 lol... Judge me all you want... (Yes I play KB&M on PS4)

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Ah, nice. I may try that, although it might be confusing if I accidentally sheathe or unsheathe.

I still think being able to see everything is nice, easier to do with some jobs.

My current SAM hotbar:
https://imgur.com/FVynpVS

As opposed to my current DRK hotbar:
https://imgur.com/BRjC68p

And the necessary shared hotbar:
https://imgur.com/uclaZ7M

Some jobs could use reworks on abilities.
Some could use the return of some abilities.
Otherwise I would rather see improvements to existing abilities unless they can come up with a new ability that actually adds something new and dynamic to the job.