WHM healing when most party members don´t dodge AOE?

How do you do it?

I had a random party at Glubal Library and we kept wiping at first boss even though I perma healed (had to, they took lots of damage per AOE). I ran out of MP twice and then couldn´t reboost it (cooldown). The DPS literally stood in every AOE, the rotating stars, the purple stuff, forgot to slide past the book... even though there were no first timers. I had to decide between healing and dodging and in the end they still died, ress, they died again after I healed them up. The first try the tank and I kept trying to get it down in the end, failed because I got stuck inside the book (rip...it´s only my 2nd time too).

I see some healers writing that they live for this kind of situation because it adds suspense to otherwise boring dungeon runs (no sarcasmn here).

How do you keep all party members alive when they are so keen on dying? Will I be able to do this too after 1 year of experience? xD

"You can't heal stupid."

If you're using all your resources - your oGCDs, making sure to use GCDs efficiently (eg regen, not overhealing, etc) - past a certain point, there's only so much you can do.

It may sound cold, but past a certain point of my MP, I stop healing avoidable damage and stop ressing. Keep the tank up - after all, healer and tank DPS are all that's needed to clear, and a constantly dying DPS isn't contributing anyways. But keep the tank up and you can still clear.

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All that said, from another perspective... some dungeons I haven't done in forever. Even though I'm not a first timer, I might not remember every mechanic. Still, small mistakes in dungeons aren't usually fatal...

If they are constantly getting themselves killed to the point where one might think they are trolling you. just let them die and dont res them. Im not going to heal an idiot through 5 vuln stacks just because he wants to stand still.

At some point, you can't really out HPS the incoming damage, especially when vulnerability stacks start to accumulate.

With that being said, in this particular instance I'd probably do the following:

• Maintain Medica II to handle the random auto attacks
• Fish for Lilies with Cure so I can get faster Assize CDs since there is a decent gap between AoEs
• Fishing for Lilies with Cure will allow Freecure procs to occur to keep people going at 0MP
• Pop Tetra as a supplement to Cure II when able
• Asylum in front of the boss to help melee health - I imagine they'll walk in and out of it on occasion as a minor HPS boost
• Medica when necessary if the total party health starts to get low
• Rescue one person through the book when one can
• Use Break as a 0MP DPS spell when opportunities are there (assuming there are any)

You can't fix stupid but WHM does have a few tools that allow them some longevity and sustain - hopefully enough to carry you through the fight.

Some people are just hopeless, but I'm one of those masochists that will try to carry that party through hell and back as I am one of those healers who enjoy these challenges.

Listen to Makani. The life of a healer (especially white mage and astro) is one of being essentially a babysitter. If the tank is also getting hit by avoidable damage in a dungeon, keep him up regardless because he's meatshield fodder to keep yourself in the game lest you get aggroed and nuked like no one's business by 1-3 autos.

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Originally Posted by Gavanri

How do you do it?

I had a random party at Glubal Library and we kept wiping at first boss even though I perma healed (had to, they took lots of damage per AOE). I ran out of MP twice and then couldn´t reboost it (cooldown). The DPS literally stood in every AOE, the rotating stars, the purple stuff, forgot to slide past the book... even though there were no first timers. I had to decide between healing and dodging and in the end they still died, ress, they died again after I healed them up. The first try the tank and I kept trying to get it down in the end, failed because I got stuck inside the book (rip...it´s only my 2nd time too).

I see some healers writing that they live for this kind of situation because it adds suspense to otherwise boring dungeon runs (no sarcasmn here).

How do you keep all party members alive when they are so keen on dying? Will I be able to do this too after 1 year of experience? xD

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In that scenario you posted if it were me, one of the DPS would stay on the ground. That boss is notorious for causing strain on the healers for people not knowing how to dodge anything at all. Regardless, you have to keep the tank up and then strategically leave one of the dps on the ground to conserve mp. I just had the rather unfortunate experience of solo healing a Lakshmi run because my co-healer more or less sucked but in the end it was either I keep raising him and he keeps falling or I keep him down to conserve mp for people that I know will get us through this trial. Then again if you're doing what you said then it's really out of your hands. It's been said already, but I'll reiterate: You can't heal stupid.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

With that being said, in this particular instance I'd probably do the following:

• Maintain Medica II to handle the random auto attacks
• Fish for Lilies with Cure so I can get faster Assize CDs since there is a decent gap between AoEs
• Fishing for Lilies with Cure will allow Freecure procs to occur to keep people going at 0MP
• Pop Tetra as a supplement to Cure II when able
• Asylum in front of the boss to help melee health - I imagine they'll walk in and out of it on occasion as a minor HPS boost
• Medica when necessary if the total party health starts to get low
• Rescue one person through the book when one can
• Use Break as a 0MP DPS spell when opportunities are there (assuming there are any)

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Woof, I will go look for a good WHM video guide with detailed situational strategies, right now. The lili fishing stuff went over my head, thanks for making me aware what to practice. I‘m aware this post makes it look as if I did everything right but the point is that I messed up too, it was hard to keep casting at this boss and I kept running out of AOEs too late. I was plainly out of my league here :D

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Originally Posted by Gavanri

it was hard to keep casting at this boss and I kept running out of AOEs too late.

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This is a problem I used to have (and sometimes still do). I have to put myself in a frame of mind that prioritizes mechanics/aoes, even when natural instinct is "that person needs healing now!" Mechanics/dodging first, then heals.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

This is a problem I used to have (and sometimes still do). I have to put myself in a frame of mind that prioritizes mechanics/aoes, even when natural instinct is "that person needs healing now!" Mechanics/dodging first, then heals.

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Yeah, you have to keep in mind that as a healer, YOU are the single most important person to keep safe. Since, if you die, then no-one else can get healed.

With the Tank being a close second because it's likely that if the Tank drops, all the enemies are going to rush over to give you hugs in the worst way >.>

While it can feel bad to let people die to move out of AoE's and the like, it's generally the best course of action (Unless you know the damage won't kill you and that you'll be using AoE heals a bit later anyway)

It's just one of those things. The "Help everyone out" role happens to have a pretty high amount of "I am the most important person in the party" going with it. Since, like how you can't heal stupid, you can't heal if you're dead.

As long as they stand in AoE on purpose I don't heal them and keep DPS.

I'm a healer, not a nanny

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Originally Posted by Gavanri

Woof, I will go look for a good WHM video guide with detailed situational strategies, right now. The lili fishing stuff went over my head, thanks for making me aware what to practice. I‘m aware this post makes it look as if I did everything right but the point is that I messed up too, it was hard to keep casting at this boss and I kept running out of AOEs too late. I was plainly out of my league here :D

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Just as an addendum to my comment regarding fishing for lilies - this is an non-optimal strategy because, in an ideal world, a WHM casts Cure / Cure II very infrequently. Unfortunately, we're all not savage-tier raiders so understanding some of the other (albeit weaker) parts of your kit can also help you get through scenarios that feel insurmountable.

Also, as others have said, you're a priority as if you, as a healer die, everyone will die with you afterwards.

The one advice I always like to give healers is understanding the fights. A lot of bosses work in predictable time frames so if you can pre-position yourself to minimize movement and maximize uptime, it'll allow you to heal / DPS more frequently. This comes with time and experience though, so don't get discouraged.

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Originally Posted by Gavanri

I see some healers writing that they live for this kind of situation because it adds suspense to otherwise boring dungeon runs (no sarcasmn here).

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Yes some of us indeed do, when not gimped by level sync and we have all of our tools available to us. Not knowing what to expect makes for very exciting gameplay, but there is an extent that can be reached. If a player is sucking up all our resources, they also siphon that excitement and fun right out as well. You'll have to make a decision if keeping that player up and ticking is actually worth it. This decision should not be based on keeping your own DPS windows open. You are a healer first, and you need to keep in mind that any player KO will result in a serious loss to overall DPS from the party. Unless this player literally stands around doing nothing, in which case, kick.

There have been times when playing my NIN, and I catch something unfortunate and now kissing dirt. Far too often I see both healers with full MP and the party perfectly healthy and they're just dancing around and DPSing their minds out while just leaving me there, and I'm like, "Really? After one KO? You boneheads do know that I bring vulnerability and slashing debuffs, right?" Very likely they are waiting for swiftcast to come off of CD. DON'T be this healer. Understandable if SC has just a few seconds left, but to leave someone dead for nearly a minute or more is outright refusing to do your job.

There are going to be the occasional group who demand too much from you. This is definitely the case if there are no windows open to DPS and you are healing 100% of the time. I'd imagine every healer has a comfort zone between DPSing and healing. 50/50 is good example of the average comfort zone, and each will consider being pushed differently. You'll have to get me up towards the 90% range for me to feel pushed, but other healers might be much less. But simply put, the bigger my DPS window is, the more bored I am.

Try not to let it shake you up too much. Being pushed to the limit is something every healer goes through.

The simple fact is that as content gets harder, that difficulty ramps up 5x for the healer.
We have our own mechanics, not standing in fire, etc to deal with like everyone else...but we also are the ones to compensate when they screw up. I don't just mean them taking damage from a missed mechanic, or a tank that didn't properly anticipate the tankbuster.
Even if it's just a little thing like them putting out 10% less dps, that fight that is carefully designed to run you nearly out of mana...is going 10% longer.

Remember something really important.
As long as you and the tank are alive, the fight can go on.

If DPS are making mistakes on every single mecanics that it make you runs dry from every healing ressources, including MP, you'll have to make choices. And keeping a decent amount of mana to keep you and the tank alive is one, even if that means that the fight will virtually looks infinitly long.

If DPS are unhappy with that... well, they just had to dodge better.
Making mistakes happens ands it's okay.

Healings jobs are supposed to adapt to the party they are with.
If one party member need all of your ressources which indirectly won't make you able to support your group, then it becomes the very last of your priority. Sounds harsh, but that makes part of the job.

Besides, you'll waste less mana DPSing yourself that throwing raise every 15s on that DPS.

It's okay to carry and repair other player mistake but at some point if DPS never make any effort to learn the fight ... don't bother too much.

Kind of embarassed now :‘D I found the Help for a new WHM thread to be great additional reading. Forgot or never thought of so many things like use your instant heals first and keep them on CD or regen everyone... using Rescue right now is risky because I‘m also still learning Inis and messing up at times - though I‘ll likely get a DPS up for first timing harder stuff. I know to Rescue at the book at least if my situational awareness is quick enough (see who stays behind while running past the book yourself). Anyway, Practice, I see this ahead with capital P^^

When someone keep failing dodging AoE (especially in 24man) ,I don't even bother, but like, I couldn't care less.
Everyone make a mistake so I always heal the first few offense (or especially when someone says "first time", I'm more considerate toward them, I even focus them for quick rescue ^^)
But if someone keeps being hit by everything, I won't run dry just to rez them so they can do bad dps for 20s and die again.

Not only I can't heal stupid, I won't even try