Eorzea has much Light? How?

So I gather that the problem of the Eorzea now is there's too much Light. The Warrior of Light has been too heroic and the world faces destruction from imbalance.

However, the actions of the Warrior of Light have not been able to stop a World War from waging. Brutal repression, slavery, massive loss of life, endless war and attempted genocide from Warriors of Darkness from another world. This is the world with too much Light? Is the moral of the story that war and genocide are good things that bring the world into balance?

I shudder to think what plunging this into darkness would entail. The Warriors of Darkness tried to wipe out an entire world, mass genocide. How can the story follow in their footsteps? How can we darken the world when nearly everyone dying happened in the "world with too much light"? Am I missing something?

I don't think the source is the one with too much light. From what we know the 1st could have filled up with too much that with even sending Minfilia to soak up light isn't enough to stop a flood. Like if you were going for help right before a damn burst type of thing where you went for help a little too late.

Yeah, we've been grinding up and snorting too many light crystals. If we keep that up it's going to hit the fan. So too balance it out we need to start grinding up and snorting dark crystals.

Don't think too much about morals here. Afterall one mans hero is another mans butcher.

After looking at the trailer a couple of times it's worth mentioning that maybe Zenos and co. will be able to harness the light to fulfill their goal. Since everything the WoL represents uses that light as well, I think the approach of the expansion is more of "Use our weakness against our enemies" and less of "Let's join the dark side".

The focus of this expansion is the Dark Knight, and the whole idea of the Dark Knight is to understand and embrace your negative emotions to use it as fuel to protect your loved ones. If protecting your loves ones mean using darkness to fight an enemy that learned how to harness light, then that's what we oughta do.

Light and darkness have nothing to do with good and evil things. They're just two different sources or tools, and as such we might be causing bad stuff while bearing said light (especially if we keep doing as we're being told, regardless of individuals like uncle Middy telling us to think for ourselves). That being said, Eorzea having too much light stems from us winning constantly against the darkness representatives. Remember why the light flood happened in the WoDs world: they got rid of all the ascians there and "won". So, yeah, we're about to go to war. But what will happen if we succeed and kill Fake-Zenos/Elidibus?

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Originally Posted by Edax

So I gather that the problem of the Eorzea now is there's too much Light. The Warrior of Light has been too heroic and the world faces destruction from imbalance.

However, the actions of the Warrior of Light have not been able to stop a World War from waging. Brutal repression, slavery, massive loss of life, endless war and attempted genocide from Warriors of Darkness from another world. This is the world with too much Light? Is the moral of the story that war and genocide are good things that bring the world into balance?

I shudder to think what plunging this into darkness would entail. The Warriors of Darkness tried to wipe out an entire world, mass genocide. How can the story follow in their footsteps? How can we darken the world when nearly everyone dying happened in the "world with too much light"? Am I missing something?

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Honestly.. from everything of light and dark that i've seen, it seems like it isn't a conflict of Light and Dark. They use those words, but they don't mean anything. More than not it seems that there's a conflict between chaos and order; which is the theme of a lot of other FF conflicts.
It's just that it's easiest to display chaos and order by stopping/starting war.

So it's not that the world has too much light, but that the WoL is imposing too much order on the world. We are effectively putting an end to every conflict across every continent we come across, and as a byproduct, stopping everyone from making their own decisions because the WoL is telling people what the best end to every conflict is (or forcing it on them). If we eventually defeat the Ascians on our shard, the major force that tries to cause chaos in the world would be gone and the light would start to take over; just like if the Ascians defeated Hydalen's chosen, the largest force of order would be gone and darkness would start taking hold.

Oh, we're not plunging OUR world into darkness. The expansion's going to take us to Derplander's shard which was being devoured by light. That's why Menfilila went over there, to try to stime it. But obviously as seen in the trailer thus far, the "light void" critters or whatever they end up being called aren't taking kindly to that. So, per usual, we have to save the day. But obviously, being a Warrior of Light isn't going to help here, so we become the Warrior of Darkness, not to plunge that world into Darkness, but to bring it back to balance, preventing the shard's destruction.

Why? What do we get out of it? Calamities in the Prime happen when a Shard gets destroyed. Stop the shard from being destroyed, no Calamity. What Calamity? Well, I think it has something to do with the former Emperor's plan with the Black Rose. ===TWIN DOOMS ONLY WE CAN FORESTALL === I mean, that is the whole Ascian's raison d'etre. To destroy all the shards, and cause Calamities in order to cause the Convergence and restore Zodiark.

They've been pretty vague about what exactly causes the balance to shift and what too much light or dark actually means. Maybe 4.5 part 2 or 5.0 will go into more detail but I'm expecting it to stay the same.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

They've been pretty vague about what exactly causes the balance to shift and what too much light or dark actually means. Maybe 4.5 part 2 or 5.0 will go into more detail but I'm expecting it to stay the same.

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Solus is planning to deploy Black Rose during the current conflict and mused that it could be made to somehow interact with the excess Light. 4.57 being the moment of clarity is all but guaranteed, which is part of what makes the wait so awful.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

Honestly.. from everything of light and dark that i've seen, it seems like it isn't a conflict of Light and Dark. They use those words, but they don't mean anything. More than not it seems that there's a conflict between chaos and order; which is the theme of a lot of other FF conflicts.
It's just that it's easiest to display chaos and order by stopping/starting war.

So it's not that the world has too much light, but that the WoL is imposing too much order on the world. We are effectively putting an end to every conflict across every continent we come across, and as a byproduct, stopping everyone from making their own decisions because the WoL is telling people what the best end to every conflict is (or forcing it on them). If we eventually defeat the Ascians on our shard, the major force that tries to cause chaos in the world would be gone and the light would start to take over; just like if the Ascians defeated Hydalen's chosen, the largest force of order would be gone and darkness would start taking hold.

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But the WoL has turned Doma and Ala Mhigo into warzones. Before the WoL arrived, it was a place of brutal order and instead turned it into a hotspot of conflict. While WoL has imposed order on Ishgard, the next expansion was about removing order from far off lands. And the Ascians are actively fueling conflict along with the WoL so I don't really see the problem the WoL is causing in terms of "balance".

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Originally Posted by Edax

But the WoL has turned Doma and Ala Mhigo into warzones. Before the WoL arrived, it was a place of brutal order and instead turned it into a hotspot of conflict. While WoL has imposed order on Ishgard, the next expansion was about removing order from far off lands. And the Ascians are actively fueling conflict along with the WoL so I don't really see the problem the WoL is causing in terms of "balance".

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Bringing order to Ishgard also caused the death of two Ascians, one being one of the Source's Overlords. That alone is a huge blow to the balance.

I wonder if the idea is that the WOL would kill Elidibus who is in Zenos' body on the battlefield and that would be the final push toward a flood.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

I wonder if the idea is that the WOL would kill Elidibus who is in Zenos' body on the battlefield and that would be the final push toward a flood.

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Can we even kill him just like that? I mean each important Ascian needed a big source of Light/aether to destroy them and seeing how most of the Scions are out and seeing how we are already in the middle of the fight, I cant believe that we somehow get a weapon strong enough to destroy the Ascian himself. (Also would kinda be anti climatic imo for such an important enemy)

Maybe we do cut down Zenos and people know finally spread the news that he is death, thus stopping the war for a time? Or maybe it is something that Solus does thus its not really our fault.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Can we even kill him just like that? I mean each important Ascian needed a big source of Light/aether to destroy them and seeing how most of the Scions are out and seeing how we are already in the middle of the fight, I cant believe that we somehow get a weapon strong enough to destroy the Ascian himself. (Also would kinda be anti climatic imo for such an important enemy)

Maybe we do cut down Zenos and people know finally spread the news that he is death, thus stopping the war for a time? Or maybe it is something that Solus does thus its not really our fault.

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Black Rose is the wild card. Solus wanting to eliminate the sole dissenting voice among the Paragons and establish himself as the Source's sole Overlord seems in character from what we've seen so far. If the gas can be influenced by the excess Light, that means it can somehow interact with aether... which is all the Ascians are.

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Originally Posted by Edax

So I gather that the problem of the Eorzea now is there's too much Light. The Warrior of Light has been too heroic and the world faces destruction from imbalance.

However, the actions of the Warrior of Light have not been able to stop a World War from waging. Brutal repression, slavery, massive loss of life, endless war and attempted genocide from Warriors of Darkness from another world. This is the world with too much Light? Is the moral of the story that war and genocide are good things that bring the world into balance?

I shudder to think what plunging this into darkness would entail. The Warriors of Darkness tried to wipe out an entire world, mass genocide. How can the story follow in their footsteps? How can we darken the world when nearly everyone dying happened in the "world with too much light"? Am I missing something?

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I think we're being pulled through time because not only will we soon put an end to all that, we'll basically make the world a bunch of borg like goody-tooshoe pacifists. I.e to much light. If not and this is too much light, I shudder to think what too much darkness would be like.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

That being said, Eorzea having too much light stems from us winning constantly against the darkness representatives.

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It really really does not feel like we have won enough for that too happen. It feels like we are still losing to the darkness because of the ascians and garlemald.

I was led to believe the current state of the Source's aether would make Black Rose more conductive and therefore effective, rather than if it were still normal where the gas would possibly be diluted by the aether by some degree otherwise. I'm not sure that the two were supposed to really "interact", per se. Nevertheless, it's still a big threat in either case. It's also certainly possible that Solus could use it to usurp Zeno-bus, but to date we can't say for sure what his loyalties are to him. While he has attested to the belief that Elidibus has made good judgements toward their cause, he also seemed almost bitter at the prospect of being dragged back to clean up after Lahabrea's misadventures, and he also seemed to regret that his work with Garlemald hasn't lived nearly enough up to the Allagan Empire's legacy. Does this mean he wants to keep building things up and become an emperor again, and maybe extend his rule across all of Hydaelyn? Perhaps, but we cannot say for certain at present. The fact of the matter is that Solus is still shrouded in a lot of mystery, despite what we've learned of him these last couple patches. The finale of the 4.5 story quests may elucidate further into his nature, but until then we still have little to speculate with where he's concerned.

Where the balance between light and darkness is concerned, it's also hard to say what's happening there despite having a little more knowledge about the subject. So far, although noticeable to those versed in such things, for the most part the apparent thinning of aether has been pretty subtle to others. It's a concern, certainly, but it's effects haven't become severe... Yet, that is. While the Ascians had done fairly well at sowing chaos, the WoL has also managed to slay many primals, including Bahamut in the context of those raids, which had a huge effect on the Source's aether. There's also the fact that a lot of the strife caused by the Dragonsong War is gradually diminishing due to our influence, and Ascians have now started to fall for good over time since the Seventh Astral Era began. Add to that Doma's liberation and restoration and, to a lesser degree, Ala Mhigo's as well, and the cumulative effects of all these events would certainly influence the balance. Still, I doubt these events alone could tip the scales so radically as to cause a Flood of Light. No, I suspect there's far more to it. Were Elidibus to be destroyed indefinitely, that could very well be the push that could start a Flood. And how does it all tie in with Black Rose and the final Calamity, exactly? That also could be any number of things. But I'm almost positive that the catalyst that sets things over the brink will be the confrontation with Elidibus when the next bit of story comes out.

Maybe the aether inside our characters will cause the flood of light if we are not careful. Our characters are very powerful compared to the general public, and we have killed many primals and bathed in their aether in doing so. Maybe we are converting that aether into light because of our crystals of light, perhaps we have to start collecting dark crystals? We know ascians have them, so we might even start killing ascians for the crystals?

I am just grabbing at straws here though.
It might explain why the WoDs had to come to our world and kill primals, maybe they had crystals of darkness to convert their primal aether into darkness to take back to their world?

I think it's more that Hydaelyn's becoming too powerful rather than "the present state of the world is too full of light". Because there's still all sorts of issues in Ul'dah, Gridania, and Limsa that haven't been addressed.

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Originally Posted by ChaoticCrimson

Add to that Doma's liberation and restoration and, to a lesser degree, Ala Mhigo's as well, and the cumulative effects of all these events would certainly influence the balance. Still, I doubt these events alone could tip the scales so radically as to cause a Flood of Light. No, I suspect there's far more to it. Were Elidibus to be destroyed indefinitely, that could very well be the push that could start a Flood. And how does it all tie in with Black Rose and the final Calamity, exactly? That also could be any number of things. But I'm almost positive that the catalyst that sets things over the brink will be the confrontation with Elidibus when the next bit of story comes out.

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But that's just it, the Ascians goal is chaos is it not? Before the WoL arrived, Doma and Ala Mhigo were nations in order. Repressed and beaten, but they obeyed. The WoL changed that, plunged Doma into war, even greatly expanding the conflict to include the tribes of the Steppe and The Conderdatacy. The WoL has turned order into chaos, and now Ala Mhigo is now on the frontline of two massive armies. If anything, the WoL has been serving Zodiark's goals of chaos and tipping the balance in the opposite direction since ending the Dragonsong War. The Ascians may control the Empire, but what the Empire wants is order. The recent gassing attempts against the Imperial dissidents should be harming Zodiark's goal of chaos, right? The WoL opposing the Empire is not creating peace, even if it's for the greater good.

Yet Solus not appointing an heir created the chaos that he wanted to happen after his death. There was also order at least in Doma before the Empire came. Also lets not forget that there was a resistance happening before the WoL was even involved.

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

I think it's more that Hydaelyn's becoming too powerful rather than "the present state of the world is too full of light". Because there's still all sorts of issues in Ul'dah, Gridania, and Limsa that haven't been addressed.

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I'm not sure this is the case though, because in a storyline quest Matoya uses a crystal of light from long ago (that orb thing), since they are more powerful than the ones nowadays (Iirc, it's been a while since I did that quest so I could be mis-remembering). If anything Hydaelyn may be growing weaker over time. That's what has lead me to believe maybe our character itself is becoming too powerful.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

I'm not sure this is the case though, because in a storyline quest Matoya uses a crystal of light from long ago (that orb thing), since they are more powerful than the ones nowadays (Iirc, it's been a while since I did that quest so I could be mis-remembering). If anything Hydaelyn may be growing weaker over time. That's what has lead me to believe maybe our character itself is becoming too powerful.

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I like the idea, but wouldn't that imply that our WoL is of equal (or greater) strength than all other Ascians combined on our shard currently?

The story leading up to the flood of light is still being told. Honestly, all it takes is Garlemald to somehow falter or become light aligned to shift the balance to the brink. Garlemald seems to be at the root of most conflicts, especially since we ended the dragonsong war.
As pointed out during the alliance's conversation with Varis, the beast tribes primal summoning increased after Garlemald made moves against them. Even the beast tribes are far less chaotic without Garlemald's influence.

I'm expecting a time skip sometime during or immediately after the next patch. I think the current rulers of Garlemald are going to get wrecked and then the Popularis may take over the nation, leaving the world with no significant source of darkness.

When the last patch ended, Garlemald was losing a battle it should theoretically be able to win, easily. The Ascian possessed Zenos is obviously getting wrecked by the WoL in the Shadowbringers cutscene.
I don't think these are coincidences. If we defeat Garlemald, where does the darkness come from afterwards? It looks to me like the flood of light coincides with Garlemald's defeat.

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Originally Posted by Edax

But the WoL has turned Doma and Ala Mhigo into warzones. Before the WoL arrived, it was a place of brutal order and instead turned it into a hotspot of conflict. While WoL has imposed order on Ishgard, the next expansion was about removing order from far off lands. And the Ascians are actively fueling conflict along with the WoL so I don't really see the problem the WoL is causing in terms of "balance".

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We did? Honestly those battles were pretty short lived, in fact, in relatively no time at all we’ve turned 3 backwater nations struggling against their primitive neighbors into a force that is beating back a technologically superior opponent at every turn.
At EVERY turn. When have you heard of Garlemald actually winning a battle?

1000 year war against dragons? Done in by our hand.

Ancient sleeping gods/mechs/beasts of destruction? Dead at our hands.

Implausible plans like to kill lesser men? Done with our hands.

It's a farce to suggest that the world as it currently exists is a bastion of Light, unless you come up with some really screwball definition of what "light" is. The world is not full to saturation with "good", "order", or even "illumination". Or if it is, then the bar of "balance" is set so low that a "balanced" world would be a truly horrible place in which to live.

No, if a catastrophe of Light is on the horizon it won't be because of what the WoL has done, and probably won't be because of what the WoL WILL do. My guess is that the big hint came with Solus and his mutterings about the Black Rose "bonding with Light". I suspect that the BR will be used in some fashion which unleashes an uncontrollable wave of Light across the world.

So, basically, it will be the Asican's fault. As usual.

Regardless, whoever is at at fault, it'll be the WoL's job to clean up, also as usual. Because Light is the problem, the WoL will embrace the Dark - and thus will a χ-blade be created, the final piece in my plan to unlock KINGDOM HEARTS and rule ALL THE WORLDS! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

I think it's more that Hydaelyn's becoming too powerful rather than "the present state of the world is too full of light". Because there's still all sorts of issues in Ul'dah, Gridania, and Limsa that haven't been addressed.

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The problem with this is that Hydaelyn is the weakest she's been in thousands of years - a deliberate result of the Ascians forcing her hand to protect the Warrior of Light on multiple occasions - saving us from Ultima being the blow that finally rendered her effectively impotent. The whole reason she recruited Minfilia as her Emissary is that she was no longer strong enough to even TALK to us directly. No, Hydaelyn is definitely not "too powerful" - just the opposite!

Actually... the entire concept of the "balance between light and dark" is a farce and a red herring Elidibus came up with. Specifically so that the WoD would want to cause a Calamity. The very first thing the WoD tells the WoL is that the different Shards have never had Light and Dark balanced on them. And we know of only two Shards that have had a Flood happen.

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Warrior of Darkness
But not all worlds hold Light and Dark in equal measure. In ours, the power of Light was greater by far.

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What matters is not that Light and Darkness are balanced. What matters is how quickly the amount of light or darkness changes. If the change is slow, nothing bad happens. There's just more light or more darkness then there was before. What gets dangerous is when the amount of light or darkness changes very quickly. That is when a Flood becomes a danger. While there is not a lot of Light on the Source at the moment, Light has been gaining many victories over Darkness recently. So there is a danger that the Source might be heading towards a Flood of Light even though there's not actually a lot of Light on the Source.

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Originally Posted by Edax

But the WoL has turned Doma and Ala Mhigo into warzones. Before the WoL arrived, it was a place of brutal order and instead turned it into a hotspot of conflict. While WoL has imposed order on Ishgard, the next expansion was about removing order from far off lands. And the Ascians are actively fueling conflict along with the WoL so I don't really see the problem the WoL is causing in terms of "balance".

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That's just incorrect.
I will assume you played the expansion, and you will remember that prior to the WoL intervening in Doma and Ala Mhigo, you had rebellions in both areas acting against the empire AND you had Zenos stoking the desire to rebel (That was kind of his end game. To get them to keep building their rebellions until he had someone to fight against.)

There was not order of any sort in the two areas. There was a chaotic despotism without any real sense of order because Zenos wanted to fan the flames of chaos to bring about someone he would have fun killing.
In 2.0 and both expansions after, we took the conflicts that were getting worse by the minute and ended them; or we took situations that were in utter chaos (the dragon war) and ended those too.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

At EVERY turn. When have you heard of Garlemald actually winning a battle?

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Honestly.. this is actually a gripe of mine for the story. We always hear that Garlemald is big and scary and doing big and scary things.. then we walk onto the scene and just kind of shove them out of the way.
I think there has only been ONE time where we lost and the story has had some sort of tension, and that's when Zenos came to attack us at Rhalgr's, and even then that just makes us switch up our venue and go dominate the empire on a different battlefield. I think we only really lost one barely named NPC, and even then, if i remember correctly he sort of had the vibe that he was being built up just to lose him.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Regardless, whoever is at at fault, it'll be the WoL's job to clean up, also as usual. Because Light is the problem, the WoL will embrace the Dark - and thus will a χ-blade be created, the final piece in my plan to unlock KINGDOM HEARTS and rule ALL THE WORLDS! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

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Well, the Door is already right there in the Chrysalis...

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

So, basically, it will be the Asican's fault. As usual.

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Not necessarily. At this point it is looking very likely that Hydaelyn may be to blame as well. Jenomis makes it a point to describe Ultima as a being with morals beyond mortal comprehension - a statement easily applicable to Hydaelyn and Zodiark.

It's particularly interesting when considering that Hydaelyn and Zodiark used to be a single entity...and that Hydaelyn/Zodiark are depicted using the same 'hands over chest' pose as Ultima herself. All three are also tied directly to crystals that empower their servants.

Except Ultima is said to be an alien if not a construct and those don't seem to play by the rules that the rest of the world does. The arm crossing for her could be a I'm sleeping type thing since it's been a while since Ramza and before him we don't know.

Well, on the topic of "hands over chest", that could be explained away by the fact that both entities have the appearance of topless women, and there's only so many ways a topless woman can be presented in a PG-rated video game. :P

Aside from that, though, I acknowledge that there's some resemblance between Seraph Ultima and the image of presumably-Hydaelyn from the Shadowbringers artwork. Aside from the crossed arms, both have wings (Hy's being distinctly more angelic, while Ulti's are bony and skeletal) and both have some kind of feathery protrusions on their heads. I think it's too soon, though, to presume that the two are the same kind of entity - or, even if they are, that it is necessarily case that both have the same kind of incomprehensible morality.

It's important to consider that Seraph Ultima is explicitly otherworldly, why Hydaelyn is so worldly that she literally IS the world. Ultima somehow wound up transported to Hydaelyn, a world alien to her, and was immediately made the subject of worship by humans. It's all she's ever known of them, and came to accept them as beings whose sole purpose is to worship her and ask for favors. The first people she met who did NOT offer her worship instead fought and imprisoned her, so it's not too surprising she reacted with hostility when more such entities appeared. Heck, it's notable that when we first encountered her, she attempted a PEACEFUL resolution, first - she offered gifts, and presented herself for worship.

Hydaelyn, on the other hand, knows humans inside and out; they've lived upon her for many thousands of years, and she's seen every aspect of how they are born, live, and die. Even if we nonetheless imagine that her concept of morality is different from that of humans (which, itself, postulates the ludicrous assumption that humans some kind of universal concept of morality), it's a big step to assume that hers is incompatible with ours. Alien = cannot be trusted is pretty much the definition of xenophobia.

On the topic of Hydaelyn and Zodiark once being a single being, though... I've had that as a theory for a while, now, but has it actually been confirmed? When did that happen?

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

On the topic of Hydaelyn and Zodiark once being a single being, though... I've had that as a theory for a while, now, but has it actually been confirmed? When did that happen?

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Encyclopaedia Eorzea Vol. 1, page 14:

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'From within the Mothercrystal, the will of Light--Hydaelyn--cast judgement that Darkness should be physically excised from the planet, and cast the will of Darkness--Zodiark--into space, where it became the moon[...]

'[Which is why the Ascians want to] wake the exiled Zodiark and restore Him to his rightful place back within Hydaelyn.

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So, they both were part of an original Mothercrystal, and while we now equate Hydaelyn and Mothercrystal, it's only because she (technically speaking) usurped full control from Zodiark, who was split off into a moon. This entire section is sourced from the Scions themselves, though, so, ahem, "new revelations" could always change this interpretation down the line.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

So, they both were part of an original Mothercrystal, and while we now equate Hydaelyn and Mothercrystal, it's only because she (technically speaking) usurped full control from Zodiark, who was split off into a moon. This entire section is sourced from the Scions themselves, though, so, ahem, "new revelations" could always change this interpretation down the line.

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It depends how you interpret that explanation - I was literally just about to post that I'd checked the lorebook and it didn't support them originally being one entity!

More exactly, it seems that they may have physically existed together within the Mothercrystal, but as separate "wills" of Light and Darkness within it. Thus the description referring to Zodiark being "physically excised from the planet", cast out from Hydaelyn-the-planet, not split from being a single entity sharing the mind of Hydaelyn-the-goddess.

It seems that their not being one and the same was the reason for Zodiark being banished in the first place.


(But yes, everything comes with the footnote "as far as we know at the present time".)

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Regardless, whoever is at at fault, it'll be the WoL's job to clean up, also as usual. Because Light is the problem, the WoL will embrace the Dark - and thus will a χ-blade be created, the final piece in my plan to unlock KINGDOM HEARTS and rule ALL THE WORLDS! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

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Nooo thats why you put out all of the scions! No power of friendship for the WoL. v_v

(Dear SE after finishing KH3 just now please make a KH3 event..>_>)

Anyway on topic:

I really doubt that we did too much good. First its always told that Light does not mean Good so how would we even know what would count as Light action anyway? Also Hydaelyn has been losing quite for a long time...if our actions (a WoL that does not even have the powerful round crystals of Light) are already causing such an imbalance then I agree with Lineage...the bar for balance is really low and in that way we could never really win because we would always tip the scales too far. I hope that its truly just the black rose that will be doing it.

Lol I thought this was another Eureka weapon complaint thread

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Nooo thats why you put out all of the scions! No power of friendship for the WoL. v_v

(Dear SE after finishing KH3 just now please make a KH3 event..>_>)

Anyway on topic:

I really doubt that we did too much good. First its always told that Light does not mean Good so how would we even know what would count as Light action anyway? Also Hydaelyn has been losing quite for a long time...if our actions (a WoL that does not even have the powerful round crystals of Light) are already causing such an imbalance then I agree with Lineage...the bar for balance is really low and in that way we could never really win because we would always tip the scales too far. I hope that its truly just the black rose that will be doing it.

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I gather that the shards and the source are two different situations with regards to the two entities' continued existence. The shards are...to put in a technical, fashion not even supposed to exist, being a byproduct of the sundering of reality brought about by excising Zodiark.


The side effect of reviving zodiark ending all life on the planet is an assumption born of the usage of calamities, which are directed in the destruction of the shard, through rejoining with the source. A flood of light or catastrophic event beyond calamity level on the source could cause the entire thing to fall apart, gods, lifestream, and all, no matter what state the shards are in.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Bringing order to Ishgard also caused the death of two Ascians, one being one of the Source's Overlords. That alone is a huge blow to the balance.

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Standard reminder that Lahabrea's death was not our fault.

As in, if the Warrior of Light had not intervened in any way, Thordan would presumably still be able to use the Eye of Nidhogg with the power of the Warring Triad to destroy him. Since Thordan was playing Lahabrea all along, it would even be very likely that anything we did to pave the way for Thordan to gain access to Azys Lla (eg defeating Bismarck) would have been helped along by Lahabrea anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

At EVERY turn. When have you heard of Garlemald actually winning a battle?

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Rabanastre. Hence why it's populated by looters and Lucavi, although we still don't really know how the Lucavi managed to get all the way into Lesalia, where they just sit there doing nothing until we come along. One wonders what their plans would have been if nobody visited; it couldn't be to take revenge against Garlemald, because Garlemald knocked over Rabanastre fairly easily without their even intervening.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

Standard reminder that Lahabrea's death was not our fault.

As in, if the Warrior of Light had not intervened in any way, Thordan would presumably still be able to use the Eye of Nidhogg with the power of the Warring Triad to destroy him. Since Thordan was playing Lahabrea all along, it would even be very likely that anything we did to pave the way for Thordan to gain access to Azys Lla (eg defeating Bismarck) would have been helped along by Lahabrea anyway.

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Never said that Lahabrea and what's-her-face's deaths were the WoL's fault, just that it happened in the process of ending the Dragonsong War.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It depends how you interpret that explanation - I was literally just about to post that I'd checked the lorebook and it didn't support them originally being one entity!

More exactly, it seems that they may have physically existed together within the Mothercrystal, but as separate "wills" of Light and Darkness within it. Thus the description referring to Zodiark being "physically excised from the planet", cast out from Hydaelyn-the-planet, not split from being a single entity sharing the mind of Hydaelyn-the-goddess.

It seems that their not being one and the same was the reason for Zodiark being banished in the first place.

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I think that's glossing over the important part, which is that they were once two halves of a whole. Distinct halves, to be sure, but part of a single greater entity, which is the original Mothercrystal. Even though there's currently nothing to suggest that a decisive victory for Hydaelyn that lets Her keep it all for Herself is a bad thing, the current state of things still seems dangerous and unhealthy to me.

I also acknowledge that we don't have a viable alternative at this time (because it would be stupid to go on for as long as we have if there were an obvious solution that we weren't acting on), but I'm still betting on "new revelations" that will point us in another direction.

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Originally Posted by Edax

So I gather that the problem of the Eorzea now is there's too much Light. The Warrior of Light has been too heroic and the world faces destruction from imbalance.

However, the actions of the Warrior of Light have not been able to stop a World War from waging. Brutal repression, slavery, massive loss of life, endless war and attempted genocide from Warriors of Darkness from another world. This is the world with too much Light? Is the moral of the story that war and genocide are good things that bring the world into balance?

I shudder to think what plunging this into darkness would entail. The Warriors of Darkness tried to wipe out an entire world, mass genocide. How can the story follow in their footsteps? How can we darken the world when nearly everyone dying happened in the "world with too much light"? Am I missing something?

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So having seen the title "To Shatter The Tyranny of Light" in the new Launch trailer, I have to ask, how is this a world being overwhelmed by Light? The Darkness wins again and again by starting war after endless war with the Empire. And with Hydaelyn weakening, how did we reach the state of "Tyranny of Light"? How is Zodiark losing in this bloodsoaked world?