The Normal Raid Loot System Needs To Change.

I very rarely post, I lurk, I read, I share nonsense with my pals sometimes but the more I think about the loot system in Savage the more I want it for the normal difficulty. Mind you I don't mean that in an 'As well' stance, I mean it as a total replacement. Perhaps I'm just suggesting this or trying to introduce the thought to the community due to my failed 30+ runs of trying to get a 380 ring for my alt to do content with friends on another Data Center and still having to get every other piece of gear, but it can't hurt.

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Why should THAT person not trying, dying 5+ times a run and making people wait 2 - 3 minutes before finally rolling to win it get loot? It isn't fair and it's demoralising. Every time it happens it makes me want to play less and less.

Each run should reward a normal version of a Datalog / Book / Page so that people aren't forced to run more than once per accessory, two or four times per left side. I think that not only would it give players incentive to go back and do older raids outside of Normal Raid Roulette, but also to help gear off jobs if they aren't savage raiders, or only raid with their static.

This would also help people who just want the gear for glam so that they aren't taking away from players that might need these drops to get passed an iLevel gate. Newer players especially.

It's baffling to me, I want this change. For glam, for off jobs, for newer players. This 1 in 8 chance per token, per run is gratingly irritating. It would increase the activity in raids in each expansion where this would be implemented so in no way would it kill the content either.

What are your thoughts? Did you have something similar or different in mind? Or do you thrive off of the salt this loot system brings?

So is your complaint that under-achievers get the same loot rights, or is it that people wait out the timer?

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Originally Posted by Canadane

So is your complaint that under-achievers get the same loot rights, or is it that people wait out the timer?

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My complaint is that the loot system doesn't feel good because of the frequency of those types players. Keep in mind I'm not talking about new players or first time bonus folk, it's very clear to see when a player isn't even trying and just making it harder on everybody.

Sounds like the problem is the players not the loot system. This is what happens when the game does little to make people learn to play the game

If they did add that system then no one would be inclined to run the content beyond their first clear, making it worse for people who have limited play time. Would it be nice? sure. but queue time bottleneck later in the week would not help.

IMO it needs to change somehow because too frequently I end up running it 20-50 times in week to get 1 drop while the people that spent most of the battle dead roll a 90+ and walk off with loot.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

If they did add that system then no one would be inclined to run the content beyond their first clear, making it worse for people who have limited play time. Would it be nice? sure. but queue time bottleneck later in the week would not help.

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I wouldn't want them to limit non-savage raid gear to once per week either, it'd have to just straight up work like Primal Totems. One per run, from the get go. People would play more raids much more often, nothing would bottleneck. On top of that nobody would be taking away from each other, for glam, for alts, for off jobs, for main jobs. Everybody stands to gain and it makes the Normal Raid Roulette more active too. It'd snatch tanks and healers into DPS queues, and the sporadic nature of 'wanting glam' would probably persist through the entire expansion.

it's because the content can be run ad nauseum is why the system is the way it is. if there was a restriction on just running normal raids there would be a different loot system.

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Originally Posted by Starblessed

I wouldn't want them to limit non-savage raid gear to once per week either, it'd have to just straight up work like Primal Totems. One per run, from the get go. People would play more raids much more often, nothing would bottleneck. On top of that nobody would be taking away from each other, for glam, for alts, for off jobs, for main jobs. Everybody stands to gain and it makes the Normal Raid Roulette more active too. It'd snatch tanks and healers into DPS queues, and the sporadic nature of 'wanting glam' would probably persist through the entire expansion.

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It wouldn't be the same amount per item tho.. It would be a lot more runs. Like, a LOT more. Otherwise people could have every job geared in a couple days and then the queues would be dead.

I don't want to run 99 times to get the body, 25 for a ring, 50 for hands...

How do you know that person isn't trying lol just because they die? Thats almost never true not even a bit or don't tell me your one of those ppl who think everyone learns the fight by videos. Raid activity wouldn't increase it would decrease if that was done dealing with uptight ppl is annoying as it is .. if this was done id just skip it completely as most normal dungeons got better styles..

Also, if the game rewarded a guaranteed loot drop or loot token upon clearing, then towards the end of the week queue times would skyrocket beyond what they're already hitting. The reason the system is the way that it is is in order to keep people queuing throughout the week.

Fairness isn't really applicable when it comes to RNG. The loot is a reward for the party for completing a duty, so if that one person who died many times did not prevent the party from completing the duty, then the reward is also his to try and roll for as a member of the party.

People waiting on rolling can be annoying, but it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It wouldn't be the same amount per item tho.. It would be a lot more runs. Like, a LOT more. Otherwise people could have every job geared in a couple days and then the queues would be dead.

I don't want to run 99 times to get the body, 25 for a ring, 50 for hands...

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I say Totem in reward structure but datalog/current token amount in execution. 2 for hands, feet and head. 4 for body and legs. 1 for accessories. Sorry if that confused you.

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

How do you know that person isn't trying lol just because they die? Thats almost never true not even a bit or don't tell me your one of those ppl who think everyone learns the fight by videos. Raid activity wouldn't increase it would decrease if that was done dealing with uptight ppl is annoying as it is .. if this was done id just skip it completely as most normal dungeons got better styles..

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A white mage casting stone IV non-stop standing outside of the O10 Akh Morn stack leaving the Scholar to try and solo heal it, like they're doing the whole fight? Haha guess they're trying?

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Originally Posted by ColorOfSakura

Also, if the game rewarded a guaranteed loot drop or loot token upon clearing, then towards the end of the week queue times would skyrocket beyond what they're already hitting. The reason the system is the way that it is is in order to keep people queuing throughout the week.

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I agree to an extent, but having a system where nobody loses out gives people more reasons to run. At the start of a new raid tier you've got casual players / people without gil hitting it up consistently for the first few weeks. After that I feel like a good percentage of players might try to go savage, they might give up, or it takes too many weeks to even get another piece they wind up tossing what remains and they don't bother again. If a concern is that the times people queue up for said content change, it changes. Roulettes pop at all hours of any given day and people manually queueing will drag those roulette people into it.

There needs to be a better system for the baby raid gear, I'm keen to hear if other people have better ideas.

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Originally Posted by Starblessed

I say Totem in reward structure but datalog/current token amount in execution. 2 for hands, feet and head. 4 for body and legs. 1 for accessories. Sorry if that confused you.

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But it wouldnt be. thats the thing you aren't getting.

It would either still be limited weekly, which people wouldn't run after 1 go, or you would need to get an absurd amount of tokens to get each piece, cuz unlocked you could farm all the gear for every class in just a few hours.

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Originally Posted by Starblessed

A white mage casting stone IV non-stop standing outside of the O10 Akh Morn stack leaving the Scholar to try and solo heal it, like they're doing the whole fight? Haha guess they're trying?

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Maybe they bought the level up the other day i had 2 teach a ast about stances and all the healing modes because of it.. one reason i don't approve of paid levels

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Originally Posted by Starblessed

I agree to an extent, but having a system where nobody loses out gives people more reasons to run. At the start of a new raid tier you've got casual players / people without gil hitting it up consistently for the first few weeks. After that I feel like a good percentage of players might try to go savage, they might give up, or it takes too many weeks to even get another piece they wind up tossing what remains and they don't bother again. If a concern is that the times people queue up for said content change, it changes. Roulettes pop at all hours of any given day and people manually queueing will drag those roulette people into it.

There needs to be a better system for the baby raid gear, I'm keen to hear if other people have better ideas.

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this aint some kind of socialist society where everyone wins. there's always going to be winners and losers. you can't have a system where everyone wins.

I honestly wouldn't mind a drop system similar to extreme primals. Each run drops the appropriate bolt/crank/chain/shaft/spring, but if you don't win something you'd still get a token which, upon collecting enough, could be exchanged for a piece of your choice.

And, this raises questions: (new to the game) In dungeons, I can click the boss chest(s), and nothing happens. Often, I don't get a loot roll whether or not I clicked a chest.

1. If there are two chests, do you have to click both?
2. Do you have to click them to get a chance at the loot in each one? or is one player looking enough to let everyone roll?
3. If you have to click, what happens if you don't? Is it the same as a Pass?

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Originally Posted by Starblessed

I say Totem in reward structure but datalog/current token amount in execution. 2 for hands, feet and head. 4 for body and legs. 1 for accessories. Sorry if that confused you.

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If you did a loot system like that with no lock out at all people would be fully geared out on multiple classes day 1 and never touch the raids again for the rest of the tier. This would only make queues absolutely miserable. The only way it would get no lock and guaranteed loot like that is if they required at least 10+ items per piece like it is with the Primal weapons.

What we need is an official in game parser and log webpage. Everyone does it already secretly. It's time to come out of the shadows and bring full transparency to the game. Everyone will have access to tools that help improvement.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

And, this raises questions: (new to the game) In dungeons, I can click the boss chest(s), and nothing happens. Often, I don't get a loot roll whether or not I clicked a chest.

1. If there are two chests, do you have to click both?
2. Do you have to click them to get a chance at the loot in each one? or is one player looking enough to let everyone roll?
3. If you have to click, what happens if you don't? Is it the same as a Pass?

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1. All chests that appear have to be opened manually.
2. Only one member of the party has to open a chest for all members to be able to roll for the loots that are in the chest. If you see a chest has been opened but do not see a loot roll window open, check your notification somewhere on your screen to see if loot is available as you may need to manually open the loot roll window.
3. Once a chest has been opened, there is a time limit to rolling, and once time is up, it is the same as a pass for those who do not roll except in the case where everyone else leaves the instance, then the last person who did not roll but is still in the instance will automatically get all the remaining loots.

They really should change the normal raid loot system, but mainly because needing to run any content potentially 10+ times a week due to being screwed by RNG should not be a thing that is possible. Instead of having a slew of tokens linked to assorted gear slots, they should be consolidated down to one token type. Normal raids should be a guaranteed token drop for everyone who does it once a week. Each floor gives a token and you can trade tokens in at essentially the same rate as is currently used, so 4 tokens for chest and pants, 2 tokens for other left hand side, 1 token for accessories. So you get 4 tokens a week while they're locked down and you can spend them how you want. Might actually let you get some use out of the chest and legs for once instead of both of those slots being replaced by tome gear before they're relevant.

I don't think it would hurt to add the same savage loot system to normal for normal gear as in a data log for each clear weekly. The body for example, sure it'd take about 8 weeks to get the data logs required, but at least it's a garuenteed token towards said loot in a fair amount of time. That'd at least be better than begging rng for a miracle.

It takes 5 weeks to gear a job with normal raid loot, or 4 weeks if you buy a tome chest piece. This is the best loot system with a weekly restriction.

Unless you raid savage it's unnecessary to follow a strict order for the weekly tokens. Roll on more than one and it won't take 20-30 runs to get loot.

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Originally Posted by Starblessed

What are your thoughts? Did you have something similar or different in mind? Or do you thrive off of the salt this loot system brings?

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this was discussed a few weeks back.

IMO, it should stay the way it is because it is the lesser of 2 evils. Anything other than pure RNG is just going to foster some form of abuse onset by the playerbase.

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due to my failed 30+ runs of trying to get a 380 ring for my alt

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i said this in the previous thread, but im pretty sure thats enough genesis to buy a better ring anyway.

I'm actually ok with how the current 8 man loot system is set up. The only change I would make is either to make the body piece only take 2 shafts, or have shafts drop on both the third and fourth fight (like the springs do). It only takes two weeks worth of saving up Genesis tomes to buy a 390 body, but you have to grab one shaft every week for four weeks to get a 380 Omicron chest. That doesn't make any sense.

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Originally Posted by Seddrinth

What we need is an official in game parser and log webpage. Everyone does it already secretly. It's time to come out of the shadows and bring full transparency to the game. Everyone will have access to tools that help improvement.

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People have been saying/requesting this for years. Its not going to happen. SE has said in the past they don't want to do this for specific reasons. As much as we think it would benefit the playerbase on the whole, just like any tool, it can and will be used for negative purposes. Keeping parsing officially against the TOS prevents the toxicity from such a tool to as much an extent as SE can manage.

Been discussed before. Not that long ago.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Raid-Currency

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

People have been saying/requesting this for years. Its not going to happen. SE has said in the past they don't want to do this for specific reasons. As much as we think it would benefit the playerbase on the whole, just like any tool, it can and will be used for negative purposes. Keeping parsing officially against the TOS prevents the toxicity from such a tool to as much an extent as SE can manage.

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That's such an easy fix though. Make the in game parser only parse yourself and no one else. Keep the policy where if you grief others over their dps then you get banned/punished. Done!

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Originally Posted by Seddrinth

That's such an easy fix though. Make the in game parser only parse yourself and no one else. Keep the policy where if you grief others over their dps then you get banned/punished. Done!

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This has also been brought up - devs don't want to take the chance of anyone reverse engineering it and making it so that it will show everyone's parse.