Suggestion: Duty Performance Grade

Hello,

i wanted to make a suggestion im thinkin about for a while. As a ps4 player with no access to Logs or Addons at all i sometimes really want to know how i performed within a duty.

I would really love a performance indicator only for myselfe at the end of a dungeon or raid.. separate for the different roles.

E.g. for Tanks:
Dps - (simple parsing)
Mitigation - Unavoidable Damage done (Busters, Autoattacks)/Unavoidable Damage recieved
Evading - Avoidable Damage done/Avoidable Damage recieved

There could be internal Milestones that Grade you according to your Performance, so i end the Duty and it says e.g.
DPS: Grade A (good performance)
Mitigation: Grade C (baad .. no Cooldowns used)
Evading: Grade S (Perfectly evaded everything)

All together: Dungeonperformance A (well done)

Similar parsing could be done for healers (healing done) and DPS..

This would really motivate People to give their best to reach good performance for Achievements or additional Tomestones.. so even for old content or roulettes you could be motivated to get solid or perfect grades and play well or u give a damn and ignore :)

Only at the End when successfully finished and only for myself (not other players so no harm or accuses)..

What do you think?

I'd love this and I've suggested it myself before.
A post completion 'Battle Report' would be ideal. As the figures would only pertain to YOU and your party in general, no specific other players, and would only be available after the Duty Complete notification, then there's very little potential for any backlash from it.

At most I guess you could get someone who knows they did well, in a party with a very low average result, getting a bit salty, but then they leave and any harassment can be ignored as the duty is complete so it can't interfere.

Not too sure on the 'grading' as such, because that can be subjective and stats can vary from duty to duty, but at the very least:
Personal DPS
Party DPS average
Personal damage received
Party damage average
Personal HPS (healers only)
Personal emnity generated (tanks only)
Completion time

This would come up in it's own separate screen, in addition to being posted into your battle chat log, and have a 'comparison' to your current best for that current duty in each field.

If it was optional and I could switch it off, sure. I know lots of people like to know how well (or not) they're doing and would find this tool useful.

A complete Battlereport would be great but imo it woudn't fit the ff14 style..

A cute Mogle that shows u a thumb up and says "Well Done - Grade A" imo fits the flavor better..

The numbers are already there from content and class balancing and they are already doing it with the training dummies..

It could even be a pretty simple system with a hidden calculation like Duty xy has a hidden base dps for DRK at 1000 dps and performing would result in:
600 Dps (60%): Grade D
700 Dps (70%): Grade C
900 Dps (90%): Grade B
1000 Dps (100%): Grade A
1300 Dps (130%): Grade S

No hard numbers that would be to pro gaming for ff14 :)

I like the idea.

They could even give rewards bigger according to your performance, it should analyse all data collected and compare it with the average, this would be cool.
This would also encourage others to do better, instead of playing and watching netflix on second screen.

Rewards, Achivements or a whole collectors systems that rewards you with glamour or mount when u reach A or S for all Dungeons of an expansion.

But if its possible there could be another huge impact: a hidden parsing could compare your usage of skills buffs and or debuffs with an avarage of your class in the certain content and give you advice if something is severely lacking.. e.g. If a warrior had a buff uptime (+10%) of only x% the cute mogle gives the advice to watch this more and better :)

That could help people to increase a lot..

I'm not sure. I think it would be really difficult to automate that kind of judgment. It could very easily be flawed and end up encouraging bad habits. A lot of times what's best is situational - for example a high HPS isn't necessarily a good thing, if the healer is overhealing when they could (or depending on the situation should) be doing other things like cleansing or damage. Or dps tunnelvision, to boost their grade to the detriment of the actual run. So, I dunno. It'd take a lot of work to get it right, if they even could.

At the very least, I'd like it to mimic the Masked Carnival System. Something like every time you interrupt an enemy skill or activate a cd within 5 seconds of a tankbuster. They could make it a weekly dgn achievement where you use the score to buy stuff like allied seals and tomes.

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Originally Posted by Tristan1983

....Similar parsing could be done for healers (healing done) and DPS..

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as a ps4 player i like the idea, but how would they do it for healers? i can go through an entire dungeon with just selene healing on SCH, and just regen ticking on WHM.

Why not just show the numbers behind it too though? Deliberately obfuscating the data only serves to make it less useful, and if it's showing only for yourself (and after-the-fact) there can be no possibility of harassment.

The numbers are of course not directly useful without context (i.e. seeing I did X DPS doesn't necessarily tell me if that's good or bad), which is something you can give them with grades. I would suggest a better system though would be to compile statistics and percentiles like FFlogs does, but anonymised, so it shows you your numbers and tells you where those numbers lie among other players doing the same content on the same job. If it's built into the game, it can even do things third-party programs cannot, like take gear into account.

Of course, like any other UI element, this feature would be entirely optional.

Someone suggested a grading system a while back and it would be nice to combine it with a rewards system as well. Give tokens based on performance so you can buy glamour items, minions, etc. I just want some kind of grading system in game so I won't have to resort to outside sources. I feel that at some point the only way I'm going to improve is by seeing some kind of numbers or "grade" system.

I'm perfectly ok with a grading system/report at the end of dungeons or whatever, but I don't agree with adding any form of rewards to it.

The variables and calculations for every little aspect of what you did, could have done, etc, would be too much work/server load for them to bother with adding, so if they ever added anything, it would be something super simple/lightweight that would probably be very easy to figure out/cheese for the best score.

The minute you tie rewards to something, ppl immediately figure out the best way to cheese it to get the best rewards, and that method is highly unlikely to be what's best for the group/run.

I like the idea of showing the performance to betterment of oneself, but think any rewards to it is a slippery slope. It would encourage playstyle that gives best score in whichever grading is used, which I think simply can't be objective as long as it's automated which it has to be. Even a damage dealer with high dps score can lower the party dps with reckless playstyle which should not be encouraged with rewards. And as mentioned, scoring healer, depending of the meter used, can lead to very inefficient playstyle. If rewards are included, the community will find the easiest way to get them, not necessarily for the benefit of others.

The best learning tools for this game are fflogs and the balance discord. If SE would officially embrace and incorporate those into the game, make it more easily accessible to the masses, it will help the players tremendously. The feeling of knowing you've worked hard and improved as a player is the best reward possible in the game.

Back when parser debate was more popular I thought it might be nice if SE unlocked their parser for personal use only (like it's got a timeline and full details), and you could compare your data to players of similar ilvl from similar content (the other data being collated and anonymized).

A ranking system gives me some Devil May Cry feels lol:
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DampObeseC...restricted.gif

In some game mode or specific fight I think it would be pretty fun to have a style meter XD but I'm worried that if you had one (optionally) in regular that people would try too hard to milk the numbers (please adjust even further healers, no DD shall leave their damage zones! lol). I think ranking at the end of an instance wont cause as much problems though as an active one, just thought of it in relation to the suggestion of rankings.

Maybe used in novice, intermediate, and master halls of training too (ranking system, active or not). With perhaps some savage or ultimate content requiring you to be able to achieve certain tasks first (improve quality of the groups being made, but don't do this to MSQ - fairly casual players due to time or skill should be able to enjoy all MSQ imo).

While I understand why people want this I don't see it ever coming to fruition. Mainly because of SE's stance on you know what. And after a while I kind of agree with them. It's not just 'elitist' players that cause problems with it. I was running the Monastery as a dps and glanced at chat to see our healer becoming extremely toxic towards our tank because he was boasting about their dps. Our tank wasn't even being a jerk they were just just happy with how they were doing.

People's lack of maturity will always ruin tools that are designed to help a players performance. Because there will always be either that one player who gets toxic because you're "not on their level" or the player that gets toxic because someone is happy with their performance and or they can't handle constructive criticism.

This would be true if we talk about transparent dps meters.. but some kind of mesurement at the End of a duty and only for yourself?

How could anybody become toxic about this? During a run nothing changes..

But its pretty frustrating as a console player that i dont even get an indicator.. new gear? new weapon? i have no idea how much that makes me better :(

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Originally Posted by Tristan1983

How could anybody become toxic about this?(

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To Quote Jurassic Park
"Life always finds a way"

I wonder... how many VERY casual players strive for a perfect score playing Airforce 1 at the MGS? And then I wonder how many try for it when they find out they can still get an S rating for an imperfect score?

This is a much simpler version of how a performance grade can be implemented into the game, and I am all for it. I think it would go a long way into improving gameplay especially with increased incentives for better performances. I don't think it would increase toxicity in the game all that much, if at all.

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Originally Posted by Sida

I like the idea of showing the performance to betterment of oneself, but think any rewards to it is a slippery slope. It would encourage playstyle that gives best score in whichever grading is used, which I think simply can't be objective as long as it's automated which it has to be. Even a damage dealer with high dps score can lower the party dps with reckless playstyle which should not be encouraged with rewards. And as mentioned, scoring healer, depending of the meter used, can lead to very inefficient playstyle. If rewards are included, the community will find the easiest way to get them, not necessarily for the benefit of others.

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Agreed. This is why they have to be very careful with how they implement it. DPS jobs in particular cannot be graded on their DPS alone. Doing things like taking avoidable damage and letting their enmity get to a certain point would greatly reduce their score. But the system would be pointless without increased incentives for better performances.

NO! What if poor ol' johnny gets an F? His feelings will be hurt, and it would tell him indirectly he needs to play """""""""good"""""""" :( good thing Wise Yoshi will never allow such an opportunity.

Careful, you wouldn't want those poor healers crying about the game telling them how poor they were at dealing damage. (because they didn't do any)
Might seem interesting, but the "you don't pay my sub" types will likely prevent it from ever happening.

It's always amusing when the limit break is pulling more """dps""" than a player.

Adding a personal log of dps/healing done I could agree with but rating would create a really problematic thing: to rate something you would have to establish a measurement before, and who/what should decide what is good/acceptable/bad dps (or healing done) ? There is a reason why the devs are very ambivalent on the whole topic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Agreed. This is why they have to be very careful with how they implement it. DPS jobs in particular cannot be graded on their DPS alone. Doing things like taking avoidable damage and letting their enmity get to a certain point would greatly reduce their score. But the system would be pointless without increased incentives for better performances.

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I really don't know if SE could even pull this off. I don't know if any development team could.

I mean, let's look at something as simple as avoidable damage, since you brought it up. Ideally, it's all avoided. Sensible enough. So, we design this system to ding people for taking avoidable damage. But, well, I suppose we'd need an exception for shared-damage attacks, since people really should spread the damage there. We might also want to consider the fact that the ding incurred by a RDM for getting hit should be significantly harsher than a BLM, because RDM doesn't even really have a rotation to interrupt whereas a BLM losing Enochian costs them significant DPS. So now we've got a potential need for job-specific performance metrics, which take into account the nature of how each job plays. And should either job get dinged if the "avoidable" AoE only hit them because the tank fouled up and turned the monster in the wrong direction?

It's an incredibly complex problem.

I think a more productive approach would be expanding the SSS encounters. Rather than a training dummy, put in a couple of key NPCs to simulate fight mechanics. Then, the game could give moment-by-moment feedback, potentially: "Careful of the AoE, Kupo!" or "Try not to let your DoT abilities drop off!", followed by an easily-digested DPS score at the end (with an assumption that you also meet key criteria such as keeping everyone alive as a healer, holding hate and mitigating damage as a tank, etc.). It still wouldn't be perfect, but I think it would provide a better learning opportunity for fights than playing with a group of relative strangers who may or may not be screwing up themselves.

I can't even see how SE could do something so complex depending of what can happen, and how people will troll with or abuse flaws in this kind of system.

Example 1 : a stack marker appear on someone else, i go stack with him but everyone else is staying away, so i get killed for doing the mechanic properly. Do you count my death as a bad thing or a good one ? How do you handle my dps loss that ensue (cause no mana left and death debuff) while i did nothing wrong ?

Example 2 : if someone else keep following me with his aoe marker and get us both killed, are you removing points from me ? As in 1 how do you handle my dps loss ?

Example 3 : how do you deal with people getting killed so often that i sometimes get out of mana on my rdm rezzing them ? Should i get points removed for not being able to dps anymore with lucid still on cooldown, while i did a good thing rezzing these two healers hoping that they will save the raid ?

Example 4 : if i know i can survive an avoidable aoe, should i getting points removed for staying in it so that i can dps more ?

Example 5 : the tank turn shortly the boss towards the group, i get cleaved and killed while the tank is still alive. Who do you remove points from ?

Example 6 : the tank start to run everywhere with a big group of mobs. Do you take points from me as a MCH because i can't dps with my bishop turret properly, and keep wasting 10 seconds cooldowns because the tank can't stay still ?

Example 7 : if there is personnal rewards involved, how do you deal with people being killed on purpose so that their healer friend can get a good grade rezzing them multiple times ?

If you can't even answer these simple questions (and i am sure we can find way more of them), then maybe a duty performance grade is not as good an idea as you think.