Blue learning should be Party wide including non Blues

Spent all day in Ramuh Ex - I helped a group of blues get the spell and then they bounced.
Then nobody wants to volunteer to the cause.
So it rewards the selfish?

Imo, as long as there is a BLU in the PT all should learn it - who have the class unlocked.

Nope. That'd make it too easy and too broken. Makes no sense to learn a job skill on a class that cant even learn said skill.

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Originally Posted by Uielyave

That'd make it too easy and too broken.

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Opposed to what it is now? People go in there on 70 already, it's not like you have BLU parties who sync for it.

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Originally Posted by Uielyave

Nope. That'd make it too easy and too broken. Makes no sense to learn a job skill on a class that cant even learn said skill.

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Broken how? Easy ?? People don't even know how to do mechanics on extreme still.

"Broken" as-in, not a single person would need to be on BLU at all. I could solo most of the primal skills at that point (though I suppose you could argue that for a "solo job", that's a perfectly fine concession).

I said at least one BLU in the PT to make it work.

At that point there would be no reason to even go in on BLU. Everyone could go in on their main job and solo the primal.


Edit: Seeing as you said there needs to be at least 1 BLU in the party, I still do not think this is a good idea. You could potentially have people unlock BLU, switch class, then go in and get all the spells without ever actually having to level BLU (not like it is hard to level but still)

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Originally Posted by Uielyave

Nope. That'd make it too easy and too broken. Makes no sense to learn a job skill on a class that cant even learn said skill.

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You're claiming it's currently "difficult"?

Twiddling your thumbs while a lv70 kills a boss for you isn't exactly challenging content.

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Originally Posted by Avyiur

You could potentially have people unlock BLU, switch class, then go in and get all the spells without ever actually having to level BLU (not like it is hard to level but still)

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I can see your point with this... Just incredible frustrated at the fact that I help a bunch of people learn and then they drop out.
EVEN when I MAKE the PF people still won't swap.

Also been in Ramuh since 9 am est and nothing lol

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Originally Posted by Mirakumi

I can see your point with this... Just incredible frustrated at the fact that I help a bunch of people learn and then they drop out.
EVEN when I MAKE the PF people still won't swap.

Also been in Ramuh since 9 am est and nothing lol

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Not a perfect solution, but what I setup this weekend gave positive results:

Example - Titan Hard.

"BLUE SKILL PARTY - 4/4. Swap every 5 RUNS between BLU and your 70"

It's not perfect and people will still dip out. But once you have the people ask up front for people to consider staying an additional 5 runs at the end once Group A gets theirs to give B one last shot. If it drops in those 5, everyone wins. If not, B can reset up the group in PF and keep going with the rules if they want to continue. Party filled up pretty fast with that description on Aether at least.

What's more, we got lucky and both sets got their Titan skill in under 5 runs each.

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Originally Posted by Mirakumi

I can see your point with this... Just incredible frustrated at the fact that I help a bunch of people learn and then they drop out.
EVEN when I MAKE the PF people still won't swap.

Also been in Ramuh since 9 am est and nothing lol

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Honestly you should ask for a drop rate buff, swap parties are like lootmaster farms but the BLU players are the lootmasters. If it dropped more often people might be more inclined to stay.

They should honor the PF rules definitely, but if people run for 6 hours straight and gotta go, they gotta go.

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Originally Posted by JBee

x.

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I'll try that. Thanks

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Originally Posted by Vaer

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Upping the rng Jesus would be appreciated sure.

Related to another thread on this (because of course it is, afterall there's a ton of threads going), I suggested a quest similar to the Rowena tokens, but locked behind the BLU job quests... that way you could have people contribute to their learning while helping, and get people an alternate source for spells they get the bad end of rng on.

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Originally Posted by JBee

Not a perfect solution, but what I setup this weekend gave positive results:

Example - Titan Hard.

"BLUE SKILL PARTY - 4/4. Swap every 5 RUNS between BLU and your 70"

It's not perfect and people will still dip out. But once you have the people ask up front for people to consider staying an additional 5 runs at the end once Group A gets theirs to give B one last shot. If it drops in those 5, everyone wins. If not, B can reset up the group in PF and keep going with the rules if they want to continue. Party filled up pretty fast with that description on Aether at least.

What's more, we got lucky and both sets got their Titan skill in under 5 runs each.

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Alternatively, go 7/1. That way, when the 7 learn it, as long as not all 7 leave you're still fine. Or 5/3 then you have leeway of 2 people leaving.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Related to another thread on this (because of course it is, afterall there's a ton of threads going), I suggested a quest similar to the Rowena tokens, but locked behind the BLU job quests... that way you could have people contribute to their learning while helping, and get people an alternate source for spells they get the bad end of rng on.






Alternatively, go 7/1. That way, when the 7 learn it, as long as not all 7 leave you're still fine. Or 5/3 then you have leeway of 2 people leaving.

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Would also work I'm sure.

I just approached it more from "Hey, we know this could take 25 runs and potentially these first 4 could dip and you be out of luck and just have the trust... So instead, let's take turns going back and forth so we all at least got a shot at it, even if not everyone was successful."

Credit to the group I was with - no one left, either, until both sets got the skill.

see i wasnt that lucky and wasted 3 hours on ramuh kills... unless im blumage first i wont do that again lol

Have my stream up since 4 pm and still no luck on drop. lol rip My boyfriend is helping me - just showing how shit the drop rate is at this point

My FC and I just run like 10 times per session then take a break. It's RNG without a fail-safe. Not worth burning out on it, and they'll eventually nerf the drop rate anyway.

I wish SE was better overall at having fail safes in their RNG.

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Originally Posted by Avyiur

At that point there would be no reason to even go in on BLU. Everyone could go in on their main job and solo the primal.


Edit: Seeing as you said there needs to be at least 1 BLU in the party, I still do not think this is a good idea. You could potentially have people unlock BLU, switch class, then go in and get all the spells without ever actually having to level BLU (not like it is hard to level but still)

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Lv1 BLU wouldn't be able to get queued into anything. You need to meet minimum level.

I don't think anything is wrong with the way blue mage learns. I think the fault lies with the players who wants 70's to speed up fights. 4 and 4 strat is soft, and wouldn't even be a problem of people leaving if everyone just went Blu in the first place.

Funny thing is people go 4 regular jobs and 4 blue Jobs and say it's to speed up the fight when in actuality it's slower cause after the 4 learn you still gotta get rnJesus again. And who knows when that will happen while the blue party of 8 have all learned and moved on.

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Originally Posted by Luciano_Bozzelli

I don't think anything is wrong with the way blue mage learns. I think the fault lies with the players who wants 70's to speed up fights. 4 and 4 strat is soft, and wouldn't even be a problem of people leaving if everyone just went Blu in the first place.

Funny thing is people go 4 regular jobs and 4 blue Jobs and say it's to speed up the fight when in actuality it's slower cause after the 4 learn you still gotta get rnJesus again. And who knows when that will happen while the blue party of 8 have all learned and moved on.

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That's just incorrect though, and easily proven to be incorrect. 2x 1 minute fights vs 1x 5-10 minute fights hmm....


edit: sorry, I shouldn't exaggerate, when I say 1 minute fights it'll vary, but for example I did a run on Garuda ex that went as low as 31 seconds, all blu alive at the end.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

That's just incorrect though, and easily proven to be incorrect. 2x 1 minute fights vs 1x 5-10 minute fights hmm....


edit: sorry, I shouldn't exaggerate, when I say 1 minute fights it'll vary, but for example I did a run on Garuda ex that went as low as 31 seconds, all blu alive at the end.

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Perfect example will be Levi HM: a full team of BLU will take a long time to clear one fight while with 4 appropriate 70 jobs that are competent at demolishing gods, u can clear one Levi HM at 20s; fastest I ever seen was 18s.

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Originally Posted by Luciano_Bozzelli

I don't think anything is wrong with the way blue mage learns. I think the fault lies with the players who wants 70's to speed up fights. 4 and 4 strat is soft, and wouldn't even be a problem of people leaving if everyone just went Blu in the first place.

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Ya I'll just sync the ex primal for the 5% drop rate, which required me to be alive (Which costed me Garuda's skill, before everyone dropped. I'd rather all BLU dead than transfusion for people now) and will now take 10 minutes instead of 1.

Oh, and in the full BLU setting, if a BLU dies, they're confirmed not going to get the skill. Seems kinda harsh, don't you think?

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Originally Posted by JBee

Not a perfect solution, but what I setup this weekend gave positive results:

Example - Titan Hard.

"BLUE SKILL PARTY - 4/4. Swap every 5 RUNS between BLU and your 70"

It's not perfect and people will still dip out. But once you have the people ask up front for people to consider staying an additional 5 runs at the end once Group A gets theirs to give B one last shot. If it drops in those 5, everyone wins. If not, B can reset up the group in PF and keep going with the rules if they want to continue. Party filled up pretty fast with that description on Aether at least.

What's more, we got lucky and both sets got their Titan skill in under 5 runs each.

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I saw that one. Titan was the last pony along with Nightmare that I needed, so I decided to do some carries. After 2 skill gets on Titan, and then another get on Garuda, I finally got Nightmare during the 3rd get on Titan. However, that last skill get took 5 hours for some reason. Some of the group left, but I stayed committed to getting that skill for those who remained. I don't regret it, but I kinda want to NEVER do it again.

But I probably will do it again when lv60 Blu hits.

Different idea OP, if their intention was for Blue Mage to be a solo job then EVERY spell should be obtainable solo without grouping up once. Make solo only duties for Blue Mage to learn every spell with the solo only option having a higher chance than if you group up.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

Different idea OP, if their intention was for Blue Mage to be a solo job then EVERY spell should be obtainable solo without grouping up once. Make solo only duties for Blue Mage to learn every spell with the solo only option having a higher chance than if you group up.

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Well the normal modes are bugged atm. but if they werent blue could solo at least those lol

Its too early I know SE said that it was a solo job but in my opinion is too weak to even solo at the stage it is at now.

people should wait for expansion they aren't going to do anything until that point, sorry people ditched you in a party make sure you don't offer until you learn it yourself, because you seem like you wouldn't bounce.

Or ask friends in free company or your LS for help it don't make sense to learn a spell on another job if that's the case SE should of waited till expansion till we were the right level but they didn't and now people are mad for what?

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

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I successfully cleaned out my primal book today, but thanks and I also agree they should have made BLU stronger.
A group of 50s can clear EX sync BUT not a grp of Blu unsync

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Originally Posted by Mirakumi

Well the normal modes are bugged atm. but if they werent blue could solo at least those lol

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That only covers Ifrit, as the garuda/titan don't use those moves in normal, and there being no "normal" mode for the others.

So thats the true blue mage, true to its job and traditional in every way. Learn skills while you dont even have to equip the necessary job crystal.
So you mean, like collecting a minion or a mount, a triple tried card, an orchestrion scroll and monster skills with any job. Blue mage the new mini-game?

Edit: Do I really have to add /s?

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Blue mage the new mini-game?

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You make it sound like that's not exactly what BLU is. People having level 70s carry them is how this has been going down since the "job" was released. Level 70s helping BLUs power level. Level 70s carrying BLUs through trials and dungeons so they can get their skills. Even level 70s helping BLUs get their skills in the overworld, either because Final Sting could murder them, or because Tail Screw is in an SB zone, and the list goes on.

For the Trial skills, instead of a stupidly low chance to learn, just make it require a certain amount of kills. Possibly while synced, if you want to keep the challenge.

Blue Mage is good. Mr. Happy soloed turn 2 coil using blue, could a normal job do that. Blue can tear up some stuff. Here\\'s 24 of us in Syrcus Tower. Yep, 24 Blue\\'s...
https://youtu.be/qZ8MiG_npv4

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

So thats the true blue mage, true to its job and traditional in every way. Learn skills while you dont even have to equip the necessary job crystal.
So you mean, like collecting a minion or a mount, a triple tried card, an orchestrion scroll and monster skills with any job. Blue mage the new mini-game?

Edit: Do I really have to add /s?

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Play triple triad on blu while waiting for a 2.0 sightseeing window to pop: minigameception.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Play triple triad on blu while waiting for a 2.0 sightseeing window to pop: minigameception.

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You just made my soul leave my body, take responsibility for your actions

I ended up learning all the primal skills by going with a group of 3 of my friends. 2 of us went blu, the other 2 went 70's. We'd farm till the first 2 blu's learned it, and then we swapped. Did them all on hard mode, except Garuda and Shiva. Because we were only dealing with friends, we weren't worried about anyone bailing. All 4 of us got our primal skills in less than 20 runs per trial.

Which is funny because before I did it that way, I used PF to learn Titan's and Ifrit's spells, and I farmed those for a good 30+ runs without getting anything xD

On topic though; I think learning spells, even if you're not using said class, would be way too easy. Imo it's good the way it is, but given how unlucky some folks are with trial spells, they could probably do with a little boost.

Could add in a totem system like for the mounts. "Blue Soul Dust - Feather Rain" When you fight a mob that could have dropped it, you get that item if you are on BLU - and you can hand in correct amount of said dust for the spell in a totem. Only drops when on a BLU that hasn't learned it. Once you have, you can safely delete the remainder to not have inventory issues, and won't have it continue to drop in the future.

Set it to something like 80 or whatever. If you have super bad RNG there is at least a ceiling of expectation.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

You make it sound like that's not exactly what BLU is. People having level 70s carry them is how this has been going down since the "job" was released. Level 70s helping BLUs power level. Level 70s carrying BLUs through trials and dungeons so they can get their skills. Even level 70s helping BLUs get their skills in the overworld, either because Final Sting could murder them, or because Tail Screw is in an SB zone, and the list goes on.

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Why is this a bad thing? Why is it bad to have players helping each other?