Dev clarifaction on exp switch

For those who were trying to start a witch hunt on players useing the technique.SE themselves have stated they arent counting it as an exploit.


We are making the investigation and addressing of this issue a high priority, but as explained above, it involves changing the core structure of the EXP gaining method, making it difficult to address with a mere hotfix. Currently, we are aiming to address this issue with Patch 5.0.
As a result, using this method for levelling would normally be classified as an exploit, but since we were not able to address this promptly despite it being a known issue, we will not be issuing any penalties for players who are levelling in this way. However, since this was not the intended design, we do not recommend engaging in this behaviour, and exhort players to level in the normal manner as was intended.

Full post here
https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...8f3d8978271a55

lol, they allow exploiting now because they don't have a fix for it?

what's next? allowing RMT and botting too because they don't have a solution for these problems for years now? is cheating in PvP now also allowed?

that's stupid

yesyes, over exaggerating. but it sets a precedence.

The thing is how do you stop players from using the "exploit" if there isn't enough time to even fix it to begin with? Sure you could report them, but really as long as it stays in the game there isn't really much you can do to stop players from taking advantage of it.

By the time the fix gets done, which is 5.0 from what they said, the number of players actually leveling BLU won't be as high as it is now anyway, so it would be a matter of too little too late isn't it.

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Originally Posted by Tint

lol, they allow exploiting now because they don't have a fix for it?

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Not really...it's the difference between a "bug" and an "oversight". People are not using a bug, but simply something that wasn't anticipated in the intended workflow of Xp calculation.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

The thing is how do you stop players from using the "exploit" if there isn't enough time to even fix it to begin with? Sure you could report them, but really as long as it stays in the game there isn't really much you can do to stop players from taking advantage of it.

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Technically, they're simply leveling their job, it's not like they gain a huge advantage over those who don't use it. However, is SE think BLU was overall leveled too fast, they might reevaluate the Xp bonus for the next cap increase.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

The thing is how do you stop players from using the "exploit" if there isn't enough time to even fix it to begin with?

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Sure they can't stop people from using it. But they don't have to outright allow it...

The Ungarmax exploit also wasn't fixed immediately, and while they didn't banned people who used it out of curiousity, it was actually not allowed to use that exploit until they fixed it.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Not really...it's the difference between a "bug" and an "oversight". People are not using a bug, but simply something that wasn't anticipated in the intended workflow of Xp calculation.

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In that statement SE themself says it is an exploit o.ô;

Well... they say it "normally" would be classified as an exploit...

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Originally Posted by Tint

lol, they allow exploiting now because they don't have a fix for it?

what's next? allowing RMT and botting too because they don't have a solution for these problems for years now? is cheating in PvP now also allowed?

that's stupid

yesyes, over exaggerating. but it sets a precedence.

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RMT and botting is hurting (or at the very least: annoying) legit players though - quite frankly I dont get why people are so upset about this "exploit". I leveled my bluemage normally which took about 2 evenings (being mixed up with some spell-hunting).
I couldnt care less if someone else got their levels within 20 minutes since it has absolutly no effect on my experience with the job and the game (very much unlike RMT and botting).

So I'm totally not surprised that this exploit isnt their top priority - it has little to no (negative) impact on anyone besides the person making use of said exploit. No one gains an advantge in some sort of competition (unlike Ungarmax and the whole "World first"-stuff) or preys on limited ressources/destroys markets through botting.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Sure they can't stop people from using it. But they don't have to outright allow it...

The Ungarmax exploit also wasn't fixed immediately, and while they didn't banned people who used it out of curiousity, it was actually not allowed to use that exploit until they fixed it.



In that statement SE themself says it is an exploit o.ô;

Well... they say it "normally" would be classified as an exploit...

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Ungarmax was almost immediatly fixed.It went used for months because when the issue was reported said people didnt report it onto the devs which as far as i know led to investigations by SE after.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Well... they say it "normally" would be classified as an exploit...

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Didn't say it wasn't. Only that it's exploiting something that wasn't anticipated, more than something that doesn't work.
When you work on QA, these two are definitely not the same thing :p

Props to the Devs for how they handled this, but why do players making the leveling process easier get more attention than those that actually affect the game's balance?

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Originally Posted by Tint

what's next? allowing RMT and botting too because they don't have a solution for these problems for years now?

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Those are already allowed unofficially, as is hunt radar. It's easy to spot those small FCs that use lvl 70 bots to gather or craft and you can open the PF to see RMT. It's not that they don't have a solution, but not enough players are doing it to warrant a response, or in the case of radar, they just don't care.

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Originally Posted by Tint

lol, they allow exploiting now because they don't have a fix for it?

what's next? allowing RMT and botting too because they don't have a solution for these problems for years now? is cheating in PvP now also allowed?

that's stupid

yesyes, over exaggerating. but it sets a precedence.

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Except it's a precedent they set back in 1.0.

https://i.imgur.com/Fx7MI1b.jpg?1

Right because switching to a higher lv job and one shoting a spell mob or just a mob that's used just for xp before the spell is used or killing it right after the person pulls so the puller doesn't get any xp or get to learn the spell isn't hurting anyone one. /rolls eyes.

im not surprised
they release a very exploitable job and people find exploits

Another page out of the old book:

"Playing by the rules is for dummies!"

protip: if you are legitimately fuming about this and trying to antagonize and witchhunt players who leveled their minigame job faster than you approve of then i think you need to take a deep breath and think about what happened in your life to lead you to this point.

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Originally Posted by 24spencer

protip: if you are legitimately fuming about this and trying to antagonize and witchhunt players who leveled their minigame job faster than you approve of then i think you need to take a deep breath and think about what happened in your life to lead you to this point.

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I'm totally on board. If it's okay with SE it's fair game.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Right because switching to a higher lv job and one shoting a spell mob or just a mob that's used just for xp before the spell is used or killing it right after the person pulls so the puller doesn't get any xp or get to learn the spell isn't hurting anyone one. /rolls eyes.

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Thats not what I said or what I meant.

What I said/meant is basically: It doesnt hurt you that someone leveled their BLU in a less "legit" way.

What you're describing (a level 70 character killing a mob you wanted to kill as level 35 blu) can happen just as easly for different reasons - just to give you an example: My boyfriend and I were leveling from 33-37 by killing the black sheep in Coerthas, which I suggested since I can also use their fleece. At the same time a level 70 WHM was farming the sheep, most likely only for the fleece. Something similar might happen with Apkallus - a mob that both teaches you a skill, but also has some intresting loot, so I used to spend some time killing them as level 70 bard.
Some people might also just kill those mobs to troll (opposed to the legit reason of "I want the loot" - yes, bluemage doesnt get priority here. Needing fleece is just as legit as needing exp.)

My point is that the simple method of leveling your bluemage through job switches isnt hurting anyone - battling over mobs, having people one-shot or pull them etc. might hurt you and it might be partial conencted to the leveling-method, but its by no means exclusive.

I think this was a REALLY bad move on their part. They admitted they knew an exploit was wrong but didn't have the means to fix it. This does nothing but reinforce the negative thoughts about their crappy programming code.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Thats not what I said or what I meant.

What I said/meant is basically: It doesnt hurt you that someone leveled their BLU in a less "legit" way.

What you're describing (a level 70 character killing a mob you wanted to kill as level 35 blu) can happen just as easly for different reasons - just to give you an example: My boyfriend and I were leveling from 33-37 by killing the black sheep in Coerthas, which I suggested since I can also use their fleece. At the same time a level 70 WHM was farming the sheep, most likely only for the fleece. Something similar might happen with Apkallus - a mob that both teaches you a skill, but also has some intresting loot, so I used to spend some time killing them as level 70 bard.
Some people might also just kill those mobs to troll (opposed to the legit reason of "I want the loot" - yes, bluemage doesnt get priority here. Needing fleece is just as legit as needing exp.)

My point is that the simple method of leveling your bluemage through job switches isnt hurting anyone - battling over mobs, having people one-shot or pull them etc. might hurt you and it might be partial conencted to the leveling-method, but its by no means exclusive.

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So those who'd use the exploit in Fog fens even on the mudpuppies that don't give the spell and kill steal thunder sprites or use the exploit on the mudpuppies that do give the spell before it can go off is ok cause it doesn't hurt anyone let alone the puller. Got it. So I shouldn't want those who again must be using said exploit to instantly kill a lv 44 monster when their blue is lv 27 to get punished some how. Makes a lot of sense.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Right because switching to a higher lv job and one shoting a spell mob or just a mob that's used just for xp before the spell is used or killing it right after the person pulls so the puller doesn't get any xp or get to learn the spell isn't hurting anyone one. /rolls eyes.

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That's...a completely different topic, you know...It has nothing to do with "Switching to a high job then switching back to BLU before Xp calculation".

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I think this was a REALLY bad move on their part. They admitted they knew an exploit was wrong but didn't have the means to fix it. This does nothing but reinforce the negative thoughts about their crappy programming code.

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I didn't understand it that way (even though I don't defend them because I think there were wrong too)
The original issue had no real consequences until then so I can understand that it wasn't a priority. It's the kind of issue you say "I'll fix it one day"

But the real problem isn't they hadn't fixed it since all that time since the nearly-zero consequences. The real problem is they knew about that issue and they should have (while implementing the Blue Mage) thought about that issue and fixed it. They didn't. Here they screwed up.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Right because switching to a higher lv job and one shoting a spell mob or just a mob that's used just for xp before the spell is used or killing it right after the person pulls so the puller doesn't get any xp or get to learn the spell isn't hurting anyone one. /rolls eyes.

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Except... The puller does get exp and can learn a skill if the mob casts it. Literally the other similiar leveling method to job swap is to have a level 70 buddy (or any one that can one shot) to kill the mob after you tag it. You just have to not be in a party together, this was the other method people did to powerlevel, and has been a thing forever to boost a friend to 15 since ARR. So are they too hurting people? Else your point is moot.

Not sure why people are so outraged over this. Someone else leveling blu faster than you has zero impact on you, and is clearly not in the same boat as RMT. If others find it more fun to get their leveling done ASAP, and SE has temporarily allowed this, then there’s not much else to say. In fact, now that I know using this little loophole is currently permitted, I may actually unlock blu and get it leveled just so I have it there for if any further adjustments are ever made and I decide I want to pick it up.

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Originally Posted by Tempest222

Not sure why people are so outraged over this. Someone else leveling blu faster than you has zero impact on you, and is clearly not in the same boat as RMT. If others find it more fun to get their leveling done ASAP, and SE has temporarily allowed this, then there’s not much else to say. In fact, now that I know using this little loophole is currently permitted, I may actually unlock blu and get it leveled just so I have it there for if any further adjustments are ever made and I decide I want to pick it up.

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I recommend the 2-person cheese method. It's way faster. Just tag a mob and have your 70 friend oneshot it--no need to wait between mobs for xp delays, you can just keep killing.

Are people legitimately upset that a job locked at 50 and can't even learn skills through leveling up is...being power leveled with an exploit that's been in the game since literally 1.0?

Come on now, I understand being upset at people stealing mobs from others who are legitimately trying to level, but if someone is doing this in somewhere like, one of the level 49 beasttribe areas and out of your way. How in the world does this effect you?

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Originally Posted by SannaR

So those who'd use the exploit in Fog fens even on the mudpuppies that don't give the spell and kill steal thunder sprites or use the exploit on the mudpuppies that do give the spell before it can go off is ok cause it doesn't hurt anyone let alone the puller. Got it. So I shouldn't want those who again must be using said exploit to instantly kill a lv 44 monster when their blue is lv 27 to get punished some how. Makes a lot of sense.

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You still didnt get my point: Yes, it IS okay when a level 70 character (regardless wether they switched from bluemage to that job or are killing the mobs for a different, legit - drops, for example - reason) kills a mob - specially if its a mob that they pulled (even if they did so as bluemage).

You sound a lot like you're holding the believe that because you found a farm-spot that spot now belongs to you, which simply isnt the case. Open world mobs are fair game - and non of this is actually related to the exploit that people are being upset about.
You might (also) be upset about people "stealing" mobs, but the original topic was that people are leveling their bluemage through "exploits" and that other people are upset by that fact alone, without considering wether those people found a nice quite spot for themself, where they never stole any mobs and just happly switched between blu and blm to get their exp - or if they were "stealing" mobs in the open world from other people who were trying to level legit/get drops/get spells.

Mob-"stealing" (as long as they pull it first its not stealing - you dont own the mobs in the spot you found) and intional griefing are harming your experience, I get that. But the pure act of someone switching from blu to blm to kill a mob faster doesnt hurt you, no. And you especially dont get to claim that when it was a mob that the person in question pulled.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

For those who were trying to start a witch hunt on players useing the technique.SE themselves have stated they arent counting it as an exploit.


We are making the investigation and addressing of this issue a high priority, but as explained above, it involves changing the core structure of the EXP gaining method, making it difficult to address with a mere hotfix. Currently, we are aiming to address this issue with Patch 5.0.
As a result, using this method for levelling would normally be classified as an exploit, but since we were not able to address this promptly despite it being a known issue, we will not be issuing any penalties for players who are levelling in this way. However, since this was not the intended design, we do not recommend engaging in this behaviour, and exhort players to level in the normal manner as was intended.

Full post here
https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...8f3d8978271a55

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Arent they saying it does technically count as an exploit its just that they cant take measures right now? Ya know they could just make it so you cant switch jobs in the ARR zones temporarily unless youre in a sanctuary just like before but oh well. That being said its totally an exploit. Personally dont care how ppl wanna level but if anyone who uses this exploit gets to 50 and then complains about lack of content and enjoyment then I no sympathy for em

Pretty disappointing response, I expected we'd at least get a post from Yoshi asking people not to use it with some stronger language. Now people are just going to feel justified with their bad reasoning, as if it being in the game a long time or not directly hurting other players makes cheating totally okay.

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Originally Posted by HiroesX81

Arent they saying it does technically count as an exploit its just that they cant take measures right now? Ya know they could just make it so you cant switch jobs in the ARR zones temporarily unless youre in a sanctuary just like before but oh well. That being said its totally an exploit. Personally dont care how ppl wanna level but if anyone who uses this exploit gets to 50 and then complains about lack of content and enjoyment then I no sympathy for em

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but since we were not able to address this promptly despite it being a known issue, we will not be issuing any penalties for players who are levelling in this way.

They are saying usualy they'd consider it an exploit but they arent treating it as so.

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Originally Posted by Arya_Leviathan

Except... The puller does get exp and can learn a skill if the mob casts it. Literally the other similiar leveling method to job swap is to have a level 70 buddy (or any one that can one shot) to kill the mob after you tag it. You just have to not be in a party together, this was the other method people did to powerlevel, and has been a thing forever to boost a friend to 15 since ARR. So are they too hurting people? Else your point is moot.

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Not if you don't have enough time to actually do enough damage. I had people kill slyphs for instance right after I off guard or sticky tongue and not get any xp. Also the lower level player normally has to do damage to the mob to get any xp credit before the lv 70 friend kills it. Also the instances I've seen were soloist so they weren't power leveling others just themselves.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Not if you don't have enough time to actually do enough damage. I had people kill slyphs for instance right after I off guard or sticky tongue and not get any xp. Also the lower level player normally has to do damage to the mob to get any xp credit before the lv 70 friend kills it. Also the instances I've seen were soloist so they weren't power leveling others just themselves.

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I'm not sure why our experiences are different; I helped a Lv1 BLU over at Wineport and despite that they did no damage, as long as they tagged the mob first and got priority on the target, they got full XP from it when I killed it.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

You still didnt get my point: Yes, it IS okay when a level 70 character (regardless wether they switched from bluemage to that job or are killing the mobs for a different, legit - drops, for example - reason) kills a mob - specially if its a mob that they pulled (even if they did so as bluemage).

You sound a lot like you're holding the believe that because you found a farm-spot that spot now belongs to you, which simply isnt the case. Open world mobs are fair game - and non of this is actually related to the exploit that people are being upset about.
You might (also) be upset about people "stealing" mobs, but the original topic was that people are leveling their bluemage through "exploits" and that other people are upset by that fact alone, without considering wether those people found a nice quite spot for themself, where they never stole any mobs and just happly switched between blu and blm to get their exp - or if they were "stealing" mobs in the open world from other people who were trying to level legit/get drops/get spells.

Mob-"stealing" (as long as they pull it first its not stealing - you dont own the mobs in the spot you found) and intional griefing are harming your experience, I get that. But the pure act of someone switching from blu to blm to kill a mob faster doesnt hurt you, no. And you especially dont get to claim that when it was a mob that the person in question pulled.

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I'm talking about when you or I go out of one's way to even find something like slyphs to go and grind on from 40+ that you pull only to have it dead while you or I have just pulled the thing. Not when some one else has pulled and you or I have tagged it. Along with having seen people kill mobs that can give spells before the thing has a chance to even do anything. You can't learn the spell then. I don't care if other's are in the zone or if others even tag it. But when the mob dies in a blink right after I've tagged it or before anyone else can or before the mob in question can do anything and all you see is the character blink or their hp bar change. IE the mob just instantly dies you don't even see the hp bar move.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I'm not sure why our experiences are different; I helped a Lv1 BLU over at Wineport and despite that they did no damage, as long as they tagged the mob first and got priority on the target, they got full XP from it when I killed it.

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There are times where this works and other times where it doesn't amd they have to actually hit it a few times before they generate enough hate or whatever the game looks at. Like they can't just go tag it with repelling shot or fluid aura that no longer does damage. I've tried to help lower leveled people that way more than once and some have gotten the xp just after tagging it and others have not.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

There are times where this works and other times where it doesn't amd they have to actually hit it a few times before they generate enough hate or whatever the game looks at. Like they can't just go tag it with repelling shot or fluid aura that no longer does damage. I've tried to help lower leveled people that way more than once and some have gotten the xp just after tagging it and others have not.

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I can almost guarantee you, my BLU friend who only had water cannon missed 9/10. They were a Lv1 shooting a 120 potency attack at a Lv49, and we didn't notice in our entire time there them missing any experience.

We used sleep with our bard friend so the mobs wouldn't eat our faces off if he was too far away to save us. Did no dmg, obviously, but got full credit on them all.

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Originally Posted by Tint

The Ungarmax exploit also wasn't fixed immediately, and while they didn't banned people who used it out of curiousity, it was actually not allowed to use that exploit until they fixed it.

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The difference is not in the time it takes to fix but the attempt at fixing it. Basically, it is Square Enix trying to be CONSISTENT.

They took action against Ungarmax as soon as they had the opportunity after finding out about it.

They literally said in that comment that they knew about this exploit for a long time, but they saw it as irrelevant due to the overall loss of experience over alternatives, so they ignored it altogether.

If they suddenly begun banning people for something that they EXPLICITLY permitted (albeit without telling the community at large about that), that would be inconsistent and harmful.

Think about it this way. If they suddenly begun banning people for housing glitches just because they put an automated "pretty house reward" system that gives tons of MGP and the bugged houses would score higher due to the glitches, all hell would break loose on them, and rightfully so. If they'd want to deal with that problem they'd need to FIRST fix the glitches and THEN release that system.

And they acknowledged that in this post. They said that they should have fixed it before releasing Blue Mage, but they didn't, despite having knowledge of it (I assume...records of reports, but not remembering about it).

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Originally Posted by Tint

In that statement SE themself says it is an exploit o.ô;

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Of course it's an exploit. It's just not bannable. Just like the housing glitches.