Buffs to WHM on 4.5 patch

https://imgur.com/5QLUVE1.jpg

What I see:

• WHM heals will generate less aggro
• Assize will receive a 33% buff in its potencies and have a 25% shorter CD (YAY!!!)
• Confession stacks will have a 30-seconds duration (FUCKING FINALLY)

I mean it's nothing to complain about. It's solid buffs, but it's not bringing us any closer to AST or SCH. It almost makes me feel like what was the point?

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

I mean it's nothing to complain about. It's solid buffs, but it's not bringing us any closer to AST or SCH. It almost makes me feel like what was the point?

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I think we're probably going to see different responses from those that play casually or raid lightly, vs those that raid more heavily.

If you're not in an environment with a lot of pressure to perform, they're really good changes.

I was honestly expecting a buff for Stone, or at least a cast time reduction. Something to amp the WHM's single target dps.

The other adjustments are amazing, but they are just translated into - more - healing, which I don't believe that it's where WHM is faulty. Since the main problems can't be fixed until 5.0, I'd expect at least a dps buff to compensate for the lack of utility.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I was honestly expecting a buff for Stone, or at least a cast time reduction. Something to amp the WHM's single target dps.

The other adjustments are amazing, but they are just translated into - more - healing, which I don't believe that it's where WHM is faulty. Since the main problems can't be fixed until 5.0, I'd expect at least a dps buff to compensate for the lack of utility.

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Assize is technically a DPS buff. It now hits harder, and you'll use it more frequently. But I agree, it's not much.
I'm really happy about the agro though.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

Assize is technically a DPS buff. It now hits harder, and you'll use it more frequently. But I agree, it's not much.
I'm really happy about the agro though.

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If I've calculated correctly, Assize is now 77% Stronger than before. That's quite the buff. In 180 Sec, you can use it 1 More time than before and you gain a 100 Potency per use, (400 (1More) + 100 + 100 + 100 = 700 Potency gained in 180 sec.)

Yeah, by comparaison it's like gaining ~1 Stone IV by min (+ take into account the healing buff which can allow to dps more), it's not bad but not sure it's equivalent to the AST buff with clipping fixed.
I think, Stone IV should have had maybe +10 potency or give confession stack with Assize, and it would have been good.
Anyways, I like the changes. I will let AST aside for now and take WHM for the upcoming 24 man raid and 8 man trial.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

I mean it's nothing to complain about. It's solid buffs, but it's not bringing us any closer to AST or SCH. It almost makes me feel like what was the point?

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What will get WHM closer to SCH and AST - namely utilities and job mechanic revamp - only can come at 5.0.

But at least one of the problems will be lessened: the tank-level aggro generated by AoE heals.

About Assize buff, I think that they wanted to get WHM closer in terms of Personal DPS (since utilities can only be implemented at 5.0). In a 10 minutes fight, the damage potential of Assize was 3,000 pot. After the patch, that potential will be risen to 5,000 pot over a 10 minutes fight, with an AoE heal with the same potency as Physick/Benefic 1. Not sure how many DPS that will add to the WHM's numbers, but that was a strong buff.

It could be better (they could solve the WHM clipping, for instance), buy they finally took a look at WHM. When was the last time they looked at WHM? A year ago?

They only fixed WHM in 4.05 or 4.1 when they were having big issues with Lilies(god forbid they keep that come Shadowbringers).

But overall, the adjustments are nice but they literally skimmed over Stone IV's potency vs. AST. It's like they don't even know the big gap between a job that doesn't bring any rDPS and a job that brings a lot of rDPS plus their own form of damage.

Fixing Aggro was the biggest change WHM could've gotten, but I want to believe that they could've done a whole lot better, such as giving Stone IV around 40 potency and then in Shadowbringers draw it back as needed as they said they might so that DPS would level out for healers.

The changes are really good and were gravely necessary (especially aggro, dear lord am I sick and tired of suddenly tanking after having to raid heal a lot...), but like everyone who posted before, I feel they don't go far enough. There should have been buffs to Stone IV and maybe even Aero III as well as clipping to really be worthwhile. Those are good changes, don't get me wrong, just not enough by a large margin compared to what the other two healers got, and considering that we still have 0 raid utility. Our pDPS shouldn't be equal to the others, it should be head and shoulders above to compensate...

Ah well. Let's see what the Assize buff does, that one at least is pretty darn powerful.

Lets not forget that longer PI will probably cut down on some healing required and also increase dps by a few gcds (I mean.. just typing it out it sounds underwhelming but it's a thing and who knows)

I was also expecting potency buffs to stone and aero. Don't get me wrong, Assize is freakin awesome and remains one of my favorite abilities in the game, but it loses its butter the less targets there are, and the over healing far outweighs the damage it causes. As strong as the ability is, it still has a weakness. They probably should have reduced the enmity here as well.

I was also hoping that SoTL2 would be addressed. My teardrop is frozen on my face. So cold. Just so very cold.

IIRC Lily 2 is just the WHM's version of the traits that AST and SCH use to reduce the cool down of their MP management skills (Lightspeed and Aetherflow). Since they were only messing with numbers here, it looks like they skipped the middleman and just reduced the cool down on Assize directly.

Honestly this is a good step in the right direction, WHM needed these buffs over a year ago but better late than never considering WHM balancing track record. Especially that assize buff, maybe now it’ll actually feel almost as useful as Indom

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Originally Posted by Zweiss

Honestly this is a good step in the right direction, WHM needed these buffs over a year ago but better late than never considering WHM balancing track record. Especially that assize buff, maybe now it’ll actually feel almost as useful as Indom

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Indom is still superior. 500 potency for 30s CD. At least Assize does 400 potency Damage now.

Well from a convenience/semi-QoL standpoint. The changes are nice. Plenary Indulgence is much, much more usable. Having to adjust a bit to new assize timings, but it's nice. So, I'll give SE one thing... in low end content, WHM is more pleasant to play now.

Just a low-end content quality-of-life update at-best. Obviously a reset button is coming in 5.0.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

I'm really happy about the agro though.

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Well I took the agro at some moment on Seiryu Normal Mode so now I'm a bit confused.

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Originally Posted by technole

Just a low-end content quality-of-life update at-best. Obviously a reset button is coming in 5.0.

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This.

People should be made aware that Yoshi-P stated at the FanFest Q&A, and in an interview I believe, that WHM in 4.5 would receive adjustments/boosts, but it would be with the current 4.X environment/mentality in mind. They would not be laying groundwork/making major changes or adjusting the class with it's 5.0 direction in mind.

Meaning: The major adjustments to WHM that we're all anticipating will come but not until 5.0 drops. The changes in this patch, and future 4.X patches will continue with the current WHM "pure healer" mindset.

When 5.0 drops THEN we'll get the huge shake-up for the class that we've been promised.

Until then, this was a very nice change and it feels like some of the new content was specifically made to capitalize on it. There's a tremendous amount of Group healing in the new Primal and Alliance raid. So lets revel in our meager new powers and await our deliverance from squalor later this year.

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

When 5.0 drops THEN we'll get the huge shake-up for the class that we've been promised.

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We weren't asking for a huge shakeup before 5.0. We were asking for potency bumps to stone and maybe the aeros. It would have taken almost no development effort to change the numbers a la MCH and MNK in this very same patch, and would have made WHM more competitive in the raid scene.

Of course the changes we got are still nice in terms of general playability/making WHM more pleasant, but they're not changes that change WHM's standing.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

We weren't asking for a huge shakeup before 5.0. We were asking for potency bumps to stone and maybe the aeros. It would have taken almost no development effort to change the numbers a la MCH and MNK in this very same patch, and would have made WHM more competitive in the raid scene.

Of course the changes we got are still nice in terms of general playability/making WHM more pleasant, but they're not changes that change WHM's standing.

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Riiiight... and I was explaining that prior to the patch, Yoshi had stated that those kind of changes to WHM weren't going to happen until 5.0. And people should realize that.

My understanding was that throughout 4.X, WHM was planned to be a pure healer and they decided to keep it that way for the rest of 4.X. Boosting it's core damaging skills is not part of that vision. The changes help us heal better, which is what our class is currently designed to do. Just like MCH and MNK got buffs for what their classes are designed to do.

There's only 5-ish months left before the new expansion drops and the class gets revamped anyway. The last thing that the Dev. team is probably focused on is trying to change our place in a soon to be obsolete meta. They're likely too busy making sure we have a place in the new meta.

Enter a thread about new changes to a healer class:

Everyone starts talking about how they affect DPS numbers instead of how they affect actual healing strategies.

I mean talking about DPS is fine. But at least talk about how the adjustments to how you will heal will increase DPS via more time to cast offensive spells, rather than going googley-eyed over potency changes.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

Riiiight... and I was explaining that prior to the patch, Yoshi had stated that those kind of changes to WHM weren't going to happen until 5.0. And people should realize that.

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Not sure how you got that from what the devs said. Potency buffs are exactly the sort of thing in line with the bandaid changes they'd do before the big changes of the next expac.

WHM even got one, just they put it on a CD instead of a GCD.

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Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

Enter a thread about new changes to a healer class:

Everyone starts talking about how they affect DPS numbers instead of how they affect actual healing strategies.

I mean talking about DPS is fine. But at least talk about how the adjustments to how you will heal will increase DPS via more time to cast offensive spells, rather than going googley-eyed over potency changes.

:rolleyes:

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Because more healing isn't needed. All healers have ridiculous healing output and can easily overcome the healchecks of the very hardest content in the game.

But since you asked. Assize no longer lines up with TA. It does still line up with BV. In general timings and planning need to be somewhat reworked around the new CD length, but they're minor adjustments. Not that much really changes because fight mechanics and other CDs haven't changed. TAs will still happen as often as possible, heals will still be aligned to the same mechanics, and so on.

PI now sticks long enough to be more than just an extra 150 potency on your last AoE heal, and can be a heal in its own right, allowing an extra GCD for other uses here and there. Tanks are sighing in relief that they don't have to do extra enmity combos with a WHM in the party, but may still be a bit grumpy about DPS.

While MP economy definitely wasn't a problem before it is interesting to note that the changes to both Assize and Plenary were still a huge boon to MP regulation. Assize added more dps potential, MP generation, and healing all in one fell swoop. It was a really interesting change to me since the awkward trait for WHM still allows them to reduce the Assize cool down further. It makes me wonder if future content is going to allow this intentional wellspirng of MP to be useful. I definitely enjoy the fact that Plenary and Assive are going to replace Medica in a way they couldn't before. It means a lot less hard casting heals and MP free healing means more Holy Spam on add phases. I actually think reworking Holy so that it was 300 Potency if only one enemy was affected, but 200 and diminishing for multiple enemies, would be neat so that it warranted using Holy on a single enemy for the dps increase at a massive cost to your MP giving you a way to utilise all your extra resource.

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

They're likely too busy making sure we have a no place in the new meta.

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Fixed that for you.

Remember, there is a chance that a new healer will be released. And they are making sure that the new healer has a place in the groups, even if that means they must sacrifice AST or SCH.

WHM will be benched over again. Write down this.

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Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

Enter a thread about new changes to a healer class:

Everyone starts talking about how they affect DPS numbers instead of how they affect actual healing strategies.

I mean talking about DPS is fine. But at least talk about how the adjustments to how you will heal will increase DPS via more time to cast offensive spells, rather than going googley-eyed over potency changes.

:rolleyes:

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The issue on why people are advocating for a DPS increase instead, for WHM, is just because the job's problems were all but the need to extra healing.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

We weren't asking for a huge shakeup before 5.0. We were asking for potency bumps to stone and maybe the aeros. It would have taken almost no development effort to change the numbers a la MCH and MNK in this very same patch, and would have made WHM more competitive in the raid scene.

Of course the changes we got are still nice in terms of general playability/making WHM more pleasant, but they're not changes that change WHM's standing.

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WHM's are already the best DPS of any healer. Why would bumps to Stone and Aero be justified? . . . Their aggro was the biggest problem (other than the lily system) and it's now fixed. Lilies will require a redesign.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

WHM's are already the best DPS of any healer. Why would bumps to Stone and Aero be justified? . . . Their aggro was the biggest problem (other than the lily system) and it's now fixed. Lilies will require a redesign.

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In theory this is the case, as shown with SSS numbers.

In actual practice, WHM falls behind by about 10% of the other two healers *points to resource that shall not be named*

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

WHM's are already the best DPS of any healer. Why would bumps to Stone and Aero be justified? . . . Their aggro was the biggest problem (other than the lily system) and it's now fixed. Lilies will require a redesign.

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No, WHM is not the best DPS of any healer. Not in practice.

This whole thing has been about how WHM is intended to have the most personal DPS, but WHM falls BEHIND the other healers in raid encounters due to several factors, especially since AST cast times were adjusted. This is not just at the top end of speedkills. WHM is and has been behind both healers since the AST changes, and if I recall correctly has been behind SCH the entire expansion. At best, WHM pulls equal personal numbers than jobs that also offer massive raid damage boosts. The Assize and PI changes will push it up, I'm estimating slightly above other healers in a typical, non-speedrun group, which still makes the job fall incredibly short. Our healing doesn't make up for it - SCH/AST have absolutely no problem since the encounters are designed around not needing a WHM. Our healing potencies aren't particularly high or anything either.

WHM doesn't even particularly shine in dungeons when it comes to damage output. Scholars have been doing quite fine for themselves there. The fairy does a boatload of legwork.

We DO have the most single target damage on a dummy fight. The Stone Sea Sky dummies DO say WHM should be doing the most damage. But we don't in actual fights. Across the board. And that's...*one* of the problems with a job that is intended to be the BLM/SAM of healers. I can point you to numerous threads detailing WHY WHM falls behind, but if you want the cliff notes version - Tons of clipping, lack of mobility, DPS lost due to needing to hardcast more spells. Encounter design plays a big role too. Its healing is fine but does not really outshine others and the game is not designed to warrant Cure III spam every 30s since it has to account for groups that have SCH/AST.

In short, WHM loses far more of its damage potential in practical settings and does not achieve its 'highest healer dps' crown. It's fallen dead last this whole tier. And that's why potency buffs would have been justified.

Edit: I don't love being in this position. I want every healer in this game to be fun, to flow well, and to be desirable. I don't love having to look at every good quality of life change for other jobs while thinking to myself "What does that mean for the job I love the most in this game?" But that is where we are. The developers have decided not to make WHM healing anything superly powerful or necessary, so all we have for what we bring to a group is damage potential. There's nothing else we really do that says "Hey that's cool, since we have a WHM we can do it this way instead of that way." If you're a summoner and black mage gets buffed - well, you still have your mobility, you still have your raise. You still have things to sell yourself. If you're a black mage and summoner/red mage get buffed, you start to sweat. It's an oversimplification, but it's how it feels.

Definitely not a healer main, but I have a 70 whm.
SCH and AST have utility in shields and party buffs.
WHM utility is healing, and more healing, to the point that it's unnecessary.
So if their one selling point is being the best healer (which is not necessary even for savage content) while having less utility and doing less damage than the other two, then there's a problem here.

IMO they're probably going to give the WHM a bigger rework than the other two in 5.0.
The lily system is not good and basically acknowledge this with neutering it to the point that it's all but vestigial now.
Leaving it as it in going into 5.0 would be plain embarrassing.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

WHM's are already the best DPS of any healer. Why would bumps to Stone and Aero be justified? . . . Their aggro was the biggest problem (other than the lily system) and it's now fixed. Lilies will require a redesign.

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Why do people keep saying this? WHM is the weakest in dps by quite a bit. Almost a full 1000 with raid buffs being considered.

I wish people would stop referencing information that is now literally years old.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Why do people keep saying this? WHM is the weakest in dps by quite a bit. Almost a full 1000 with raid buffs being considered.

I wish people would stop referencing information that is now literally years old.

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Exactly. The only situation where WHM is equal to the other healers, or even supprassing them is during heavy AoE situation, with Aero 3 + Holy + Assize, and really shines there when holy can aoe stun and give your tank a couple of seconds without damage.

I'm perfectly fine with WHM never having any kind of utility, like BLM or SAM, but it should bring the best dps, single target and aoe to compensate for that. Just like it does when it comes to actual healing. The thing is... the more experienced your group gets, the least healing they'll need... for dps is on the contrary: the more experienced your group gets, more valuable a healer's dps output gets, because makes the encounter even faster.

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Originally Posted by Erakir

Edit: I don't love being in this position. I want every healer in this game to be fun, to flow well, and to be desirable. I don't love having to look at every good quality of life change for other jobs while thinking to myself "What does that mean for the job I love the most in this game?" But that is where we are. The developers have decided not to make WHM healing anything superly powerful or necessary, so all we have for what we bring to a group is damage potential. There's nothing else we really do that says "Hey that's cool, since we have a WHM we can do it this way instead of that way." If you're a summoner and black mage gets buffed - well, you still have your mobility, you still have your raise. You still have things to sell yourself. If you're a black mage and summoner/red mage get buffed, you start to sweat. It's an oversimplification, but it's how it feels.

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Our healing is very powerful. We just don't have content for it to shine, except maybe Ultimate? I can't personally say on that one, but all raid heal checks are deigned so that each healer can meet them. I am quite sure when the devs are creating content, WHM is the least of their worries when it comes to this. They can literally design high-end content with only SCH and AST used for testing and can deductively determine that WHM will pass the heal checks as well. Just because AST and SCH can meet the heal checks, doesn't necessarily make them better at it. So much of AST and SCH burst heal AoE kits are tied to ogcds. WHM has those too, but they can also keep up raid damage through the use of their gcds. But there is currently no content that I am aware of that requires this.

WHM remains my favorite job in the whole game despite its drawbacks. I think the reason why this is, is because the devs vision of the job matches my own. The only reason why I want it to be the SAM/BLM of healers is because it rightfully should be. It would be fair; and that's what I ultimately want with the healers. It is still really fun to play even though I know we're at the bottom of the totem pole. I wouldn't be happy if 5.0 WHM leapfrogs over all the healers and becomes #1 everything. It would need utility that trumps what's already out there, which would totally change the job. I don't think that's the direction the devs want to go at all.

The job can still use a lot of improvement, and the lily mechanic can be redesigned to make it more useful without making it another gimmick that needs to be micromanaged. We need to understand that the lily mechanic is intended to be passive. But I still don't know what they were thinking with SoTL2. I know the QoL changes have favored SCH and AST, but WHM QoL isn't really that bad if just looking at WHM alone and not compare it to SCH and AST. As soon as you do that though, then the unfairness comes out and I can definitely understand how that can leave WHM mains with a bitter taste.

Here's to hoping for good things come 5.0 WHM.

Assize is a hefty buff lol

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Our healing is very powerful. We just don't have content for it to shine, except maybe Ultimate?

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As far as I know, AST has been the only healer to ever solo heal this content. Please feel free to correct me if this has changed.

White mage solo healed Bahamut Ultimate and Noct Astro healed ultima ultimate and I'm sure preety sure a sch could too but the thing about the solo heals in Bahamut was using tank lb to mitigate the morn afahs on certain ones where there wasn't party mitigation.
Still Assize buff did put it back up and maybe just a minor buff in stone and aero would at least make better than astro where it should at least be above the support buff healer(speaking as an astro myself)

From the new Job action video, presented at the benchmark it looks like lilies are here to stay :((((((((((((((

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Originally Posted by _Winters_

From the new Job action video, presented at the benchmark it looks like lilies are here to stay :((((((((((((((

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Never expected them to be removed, really. But them building up automatically is definitely far better than having to use GCDs on unnecessary skills just to get a minor CD reduction. Also, I couldn't watch the live letter since I was at work, but I heard there now is a new damage skill for WHM tied to them, as well as more skills affected by them, and I think all those things together make them at least not quite as much a waste as they were so far, and you can play far more effectively and still utilize them, which isn't bad.

However, Lilies where hardly WHMs most glaring issue, and I have no clue what they want to do about that one... I of course talk about raid utility.