Change the loot system for normal raids

Making a request to change the way drop are handled in normal 8 man raids. It's not fun having to run a raid a dozen or 2 dozen times because the RNG system is a horrible unfair system that rewards crap players over players actually trying.

And don't give me that crap "it's RNG, its random!" because anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together can see that it is not.

It's random, it truly is. The stuff from the raids isn't that important unless you intend to do harder content (like savage or extreme) so try looking at other ways to get the gear such as crafting or tomestones if you don't require them for glamour.

I understand. Though, I think one of the things they can do is implement something similar to how we have pages for Savage. Perhaps they could give us something like Scriptures to exchange for a piece that's obtainable once a week, similar to the loot reward and the 4th portion of Normal Mode's Weapon exchange pieces. It'd hasten progression on the lower end a little, but it'll at least help players get up to speed a bit better without having to struggle for 3 hours straight(20+ runs) just to get a single piece for the week due to bad RNG.

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Originally Posted by Thamorian

Making a request to change the way drop are handled in normal 8 man raids. It's not fun having to run a raid a dozen or 2 dozen times because the RNG system is a horrible unfair system that rewards crap players over players actually trying.

And don't give me that crap "it's RNG, its random!" because anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together can see that it is not.

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It is random.But i notice a lot of gamers these days refuse to accept how random works.
But anyone with 2 braincells should be able to understand the simple concept of random.

This game has one of the worst RNG systems ever and is very frustrating

You ran it "a dozen or two dozen" times though, thus providing upwards of twenty four queues for other people. It's working exactly as intended. And they have no reason to deviate from that since it'll mean you run the content less.

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Originally Posted by Thamorian

And don't give me that crap "it's RNG, its random!" because anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together can see that it is not.

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A translation of a post from a person with two brain cells who says it's working as intended.

Roll better and you'll get loot.

Go with 7 friends.

It's less effective than pure luck but it's effective

1. You KNOW, that you'll have your loot in about an hour per turn, (1, 3, given not everyone wants same loot and it drops double sometimes, max 8 runs) so max 4 hours spent in that 8 man raid per week.
2. You KNOW it's not going to be a wipefest, hence not losing more time than needed.
3. You're flipping a bit the finger to SE who tries to force you to tag in DF to bring people along : as Cassandra said it IS designed for that purpose so unlikely to change. The same way relic used to be a "content population" management tool. I understand their way, but I don't like being forced in a game, so there is that.

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Originally Posted by Thamorian

...It's not fun having to run a raid a dozen or 2 dozen times because the RNG system is a horrible...

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You only need run it once. With your friends.

I laugh when people say "random isn't fair". Random is random. Sometimes it favors you, sometimes it doesn't. You're competing with 2 layers of RNG. 1) the chance that it will drop 1-2 of your desired item, 2) your 0-99 roll for said item has to beat up to 7 other players also rolling on the item. Still, I wonder why they don't have a system similar to Savage for normal as well. Drop the 4 component parts, and everyone gets a page also. That way, in 4-8 weeks or so you can get a guaranteed piece of your choice from each fight.

because there are no restrictions on running normal. also queues would die out too quickly.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

because there are no restrictions on running normal. also queues would die out too quickly.

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If it is the latest tier then there are weekly restrictions, even for normal. Unless you meant something else...

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Originally Posted by Thamorian

And don't give me that crap "it's RNG, its random!" because anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together can see that it is not.

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Then what is it? A GM watching over every instance picking and choosing who gets the loot?

We've all been cucked by RNG. Hell I've even cucked myself when RNG was favorable (waited 6 weeks for omega tank gloves to drop, they finally dropped and I left the instance before everyone was done rolling ._.). So I understand the need to vent. RNG is RNG.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

If it is the latest tier then there are weekly restrictions, even for normal. Unless you meant something else...

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well yes until normal is unlocked once you get a piece for the week then you're done, what i mean is that if you get a piece you're not affecting the loot the next time you step into another instance.

I honestly cant remember a time i have been more frustrated in any MMO than running the first normal for 4 straight hours and not getting the one stupid bolt I need. Congrats SE you kept me in the que for that long but how many people have you turned away because of it? Lots of people have alt jobs that would still go into the normal raids for early gear but now they just craft like others have said rather than going in the que. Oh and you think i want to inconvenience my FC or friends to run a crappy normal raid just so i can get one piece of gear for a side job, yeah right! Also not everyone has a crafter or can buy all crafted gear, besides most of it has garbage stats. Now your going to tell me to level a crafter and do something i despise (crafting) to avoid another thing i despise (crappy rng loot system), sound logic! How about they just implement a system that reduces the rng by having only 1 chest pop but you get a token or book like the savage raids where at least you get a token to exchange. Even if it takes 6 or 8 of them for 1 piece at least i would still have the notion that i didn't just completely waste my time.

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Originally Posted by Malblind

I honestly cant remember a time i have been more frustrated in any MMO than running the first normal for 4 straight hours and not getting the one stupid bolt I need. Congrats SE you kept me in the que for that long but how many people have you turned away because of it? Lots of people have alt jobs that would still go into the normal raids for early gear but now they just craft like others have said rather than going in the que. Oh and you think i want to inconvenience my FC or friends to run a crappy normal raid just so i can get one piece of gear for a side job, yeah right! Also not everyone has a crafter or can buy all crafted gear, besides most of it has garbage stats. Now your going to tell me to level a crafter and do something i despise (crafting) to avoid another thing i despise (crappy rng loot system), sound logic! How about they just implement a system that reduces the rng by having only 1 chest pop but you get a token or book like the savage raids where at least you get a token to exchange. Even if it takes 6 or 8 of them for 1 piece at least i would still have the notion that i didn't just completely waste my time.

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if they're your friends/fc mates they shouldn't mind running something quick for you....

you shouldn't need normal raid loot, its pretty much placeholder/glam gear right now, honestly to me its really there just to keep the queue alive, and if thats the case its working perfectly

I honestly don't get the complaints on the RNG in a game. In programming, a number is randomly generated for people. Every major MMO has a need/greed rolling system of 1-100. If you don't get your roll, don't think the game is against you because it was programmed to be against you. Know that your luck is just poor that roll. It is like someone complaining about rolling 20 sized die and not getting 20 every time. Probability is simply a fair and impartial way to give everyone a chance at loot. At least in this game you can only need gear that is part of your class to prevent sniping like there was in early days of WoW.

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Originally Posted by Acelyn

you shouldn't need normal raid loot, its pretty much placeholder/glam gear right now, honestly to me its really there just to keep the queue alive, and if thats the case its working perfectly

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You might want to stuff subjobs up to 380 and won't go all crafted cause sometimes the substats are shit.

I main caster, but I managed to stuff DRG, BRD/MCH, NIN, healers and tanks to almost BiS like repartition of substats (only not BiS cause in 380 and not 400), thanks to a combination of Pyros, O9-12 and crafted pieces, and Some Suaku for a few weapons. That way I can take them in Savage and though not doing the best DPS of the team, still have the minimum gear needed to be serious about it.

So yes I can understand there is still a need for some people, just not for their main. Which makes it even more tedious, spending countless hours for subjobs...

Like Karshan has said. Myself i main caster but take on the role of tank or healer (less healer mind you) or other dps jobs so if you are trying to gear multiple jobs and given this crappy rng system it makes it super annoying

It's a bit of a tricky spot I guess.

On the one hand, there's not much content. If they make it one and done, you can clear through a week's worth of raids in under an hour, unless you get a bad pug. I believe this is why normal mode raids and alliance raids limit you to winning one piece a week rather than say a WoW raid where you can run it more if you want but you only get one normal loot drop from a boss per week regardless of getting an item or not.

On the other hand, the current system can be very annoying when you have bad rng. There was one week I had to run O12 like 8 times to get a shaft. If I didn't have tank queues it would have been even worse.

Having performance based drops is a bad idea I think. It would be too tricky to implement fairly unless it was some kind of bare minimum 'you weren't afk for the fight' sort of check. How does it check someone new and learning dying vs someone just messing around? How does it weigh comparisons between jobs? What if both healers are trying but one's just faster and always gets casts off sooner so the other healer doesn't actually get as much effective healing out? How do you judge tanks? Do you mandate tank swaps? Do you judge them by damage done? I think that's just a big can of works.

There are some middle ground approaches though I think could work.

A. increase the number of drops per boss to 6 or 8. More chances to win loot with each kill, meaning less repeat queues needed, but still meaning it's not necessarily one and done every week.
B. Revamp the parts system. Currently, if you're working on a chest piece, you only want a shaft from the final boss for example. Meaning you're only rolling on 1, or if lucky, 2 drops. If the system were tweaked so that each of the four fights drops four of the same item, or some sort of alternative, you could roll on all four and basically have a 1/2 chance in every run of getting a drop. Then maybe exchange those generic currencies for more specific parts at a vendor. For example, o12 would drop Alphascape Core that can be exchanged for an alphascape crank, an alphascape spring, or an alphascape shaft. Kind of like how you exchange coins from the 24 man raids for different items.

You know what's unfair?
You have to raid the normal mode a dozen times while I can't run Savage more than once (for fun) without removing loot from other participent.

I don't understand why some gating actually exist, especially for the catch up one.

The only gatting that makes sens is, I suppose, the one for the maximum ilv one.
I don't understand gatting for weaker gear.

A new raid got released, I did it, I have to wait for next week to do it again (with a chance of getting something ofc).
Why would getting 390 stuff from the raid be an issue? Why can't I run ita few times a week to gear up my alt jobs? 390 ilv isn't especially strong.

Sometime I feel we have a lot of content but everything is so gatted that you're done with everything in a few evening.

Tomestone cap too quickly, making expert/roulette useless beyond a few run (not even talking about how faceroll and easy they are)
There are tons of dungeon but they reward nothing of interest, same for old trial (beside a mount)
Raid can only be done once (or a few times for the normal version), savage being aweful because you can't even help friends without depriving them from gear.

Fate are tedious and reward very little, why do I have to kill 25 bear to complete one? Why do they scale wiht the number of players? Shouldn't teamwork be rewarded? Why are the boss FATE almost impossible to solo as a dps without a healer chocobo or takes over 10min as a tank/heal?

There is so much stuff, but it's so unexploited, it's sad.

I've been palying a bit of WoW recently and, I find very odd that FF14 has more gatting and cap of weekly reward than WoW.
In WoW (and any mmo for that matter), one character is one classe, making creating alt a good time sink and a good way to circumvent the weekly gap. I can raid with my Mage and have fun doing expert with my Warrior/Priest. There's also a great deal of content with difficulty in between "faceroll" (see: FF14 Expert roulette, normal 8man and 24man) and hardcore (last 2 boss savage / Ultimate).

In FF14, if I raid with my static on tuesday as a healer, I'm litterally banned from attempting savage (except in learning parties because most don't care about loot) with any other job. Why is that?
Why do I have to make an entirely new character to raid on two different jobs? Why am I punished for having a fully developped character?

A big appeal of FF14 is having everything on one character, but sometime it feels more like a curse. I mean, I'm actually leveling a second character (just tank) so that I can do some pf past tuesday raiding evening. And some friends from my static are actually following, like "let's do pf with jobs we never play \o/"

I don't expect any change for Shadowbringer, but I have the feeling that FF14 is handling the multijob on one character very poorly, because instead of making you feel like you can do so much more, it actually heavily gimp the amount of things you can do.

ps: I'm not saying "WoW is so much better" it has its fair share of issues, but there are things that are worth implementing in FF. We don't lack content, we lack meaningful content. There are a badjillion of dongeon but only the last 2-3 are worth doing. There's no middle ground difficulty, it's either faceroll or hardcore (beside 1 trial a patch). I really wish we had something akin to Mythic dungeon in FF14. We "kinda" do, HoH, but again, once you're done with it it feels redundant. Why can't a regular dungeon be fun and requires time and practice to complete?

whether the RNG system 'is crappy or not' , its still RNG. but seeing that people tend to sabotage the raid often get rewarded(and lucky?) is somehow ofc making ppl 2nd guess this 'RNG'. (even me- just hate to sit there raise a few dozen-x some ppl and the non-raising and non-curing healer gets 3/4 rewards...and i go unrewarded)


So instead,...
i know people said; you queue 24 times? means this system is working! Yea like some of us have to time to farm glamour / upgrade 'sub' jobs 24x . Nonetheless its frustrating . I'm up to a point, 24x or not, that i am NOT going to farm it any more bc i hate the RNG system and how it may look or not look. And there you go, bye 24 queues of 1 person (or more people) . I can be the only one, or be one of many.

So why would it be fair/unfair to reward the 'lucky' ? There will be 7 people unlucky and a few will be very unlucky. and (maybe) thus not farming it again or even in future updates. I get why they GATE stuff for about 6-12 weeks but after that, please be kind to the people who at least want to finish off their stacks (1/2's 3/4's etc) or if they are intrigued to farm something for glamour or gear up jobs(don't go tell people buy crafted gear, not everyone is loaded/have jobs to gather and make them)

another idea for some of the ppl posting here is go with 7 friends! i don't have that many in this game, and they (the ones i have) are never online at the same time. Boho me? no i'm quite OK queueing on my own- like almost the rest of the 14-populatoin. Its a nice countermeasure but not for everyone again.

so my idea, and please- consider this (i'm looking at you devs), is to 'open up' the content like you do now but that everyone per instance (per queue) can only GET 1 drop. Drop meaning the stuff needed for the gear (don't include minions(everyone has it by then) and orchestration (sellable)!) .

This way the lucky will get also to queue more, the very unlucky might see another chance to go again (i will go again, and i'm the one who is quitting now) as instead they have 1/8 chance on each drop they will have 1/8 1/7 1/6 1/5 chance to get something.

to put it this way:
now: everyone has a 1/8 chance on any of the items (12,5% you get 1 item)
my idea: everyone will have a chance BETWEEN 12,5%(1st rolled/dropped item) and 20%(last rolled/dropped item) to get 1 item.

now i understand this might invoke what people always do; only lot on springs/shafts . this means in Omega N 4 it will be 12,5% to 16,67% chance to get something- again more than the old rule. Also, if people are going to do this, the 'newer' people to the raid will have 'easier' access to the unwanted gear making them easier to upgrade their slots (for those who come back to the game / run behind)

'my idea' is based on the consideration of many factors (i described most of them), so i hope the Devs will see something in this.

also- if you do make a PF / have friends for this; going in with a pre-made party will result in the normal-how-it-is-currently lotting rules.

I think the raid and trial loot systems are actually pretty good.
Trials give you totems to cash in on what you want, and likewise for raids with parts.

The only thing I would maybe change is consolidating parts for:
Head and belt
Top and bottoms
Gloves and shoes

Given that these are already grouped this way per tier, it makes sense that you could use the same parts to get either, hat OR belt, etc.

Trying to get the item you want with DF can be a massive pain due to RNG. I remember doing cruise chaser 12x in a row (got good at dodging propeller wind though) and recently did alphascape 3.0 17x in a row trying to get that last spring. That and the slow lotting after each fight when people are standing around hoping everyone else will leave. Definitely reduces the fun. :(

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I think the raid and trial loot systems are actually pretty good.
Trials give you totems to cash in on what you want, and likewise for raids with parts.

The only thing I would maybe change is consolidating parts for:
Head and belt
Top and bottoms
Gloves and shoes

Given that these are already grouped this way per tier, it makes sense that you could use the same parts to get either, hat OR belt, etc.

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I think what I would do is give each raid fight its own 'coin' type currency.

Instead of directly rolling on bolts, chains, pedals, springs etc, several 'Alphascape V1 Coupons' drop and you roll against these items. Then that coupon can be exchanged for a loot part that currently drops from Chaos. What is it, chain, bolt and pedal?

That way all four drops will be directly useful to you regardless of whether you're trying to get an accessory or one of your pedals for boots or a belt etc. You have basically a 1/2 chance to win one of them, greatly cutting down how many times you would have to run it with bad rng. (Or just make it a drop you get for clearing but I don't think SE is willing to make normal mode raids always one and done so they can stretch out how long normal mode raiders are doing the content.)

Then Midgarsormr would drop 'Alphascape v2 coupon' and Omega a v3 coupon and Omega M/F v4 coupon.

Yes, it adds one extra step at the npcs you have to go through but would make actually rolling on and getting items simpler from the raids.

As for trials, does it seem odd to anyone else that normal mode trials don't get any loot at all? I'm not saying they should get unique weapons neccisarily like the ex trials as they're very easy content but it feels odd that they don't even get like, dungeon level drops.