Do i play wrong ?

I asked myself this question, but how did it come that far?

I resuped FF14SB after few month of unsuping ( played 4Month SB and realized everything is same like in HW and ARR just a different coat)
Played my AST and a bit RDM start to roll up the crafters doin MQ and Beasttribes and then it hits me...
Everything i do is totally again the same like month before 1:1, i knew it and it was okay~ish but than those ways u play a job all mages has the same way to fulfill their role like physical range dps and so on just slightly differences but same upkeep of timers.
While i played i had this terrible feeling there is no chance to play ur job in a unique way even the rolepool actions are used all 10 now there is just one Danceperformance u have to fulfill and there is no chance to find a new way (in WoW u have choices in gear and skills which u can choose to define ur playstyle) but in FF14 there is no choice like this (have no problem with the GCD in FF14).... is this rly true or do i play that wrong?
Is this game rly that streamlined beside the feeling there is no use to gear-up ur DoW/M if u dont wanna go raid cause there is no content to use a geared up DoW/M outsite those content?!
There is no real challenge u have to play through if u dont go raiding there... is this rly true ?

After this idea in my mind i was instant damped.

Rly dont get me wrong ... i love Final Fantasy mostly solotitels, played all of them i played FF14 1.0 and played since them with some downtime here and there...
But its rly hard for me to get rid of those cloudy thoughts and this feelings of a repetitive and not engaging non FF gameplay ...

I don't play other MMOs. So maybe that's why I'm not bothered by it. In fact, I'm bothered more by the fact that I don't understand where people are coming from and that I don't think that they can change that, or that the game needs that. (I also don't quite understand the whole anti-ilvl stuff that people have? I don't see how this isn't any different from other FF games. You get gear, you find better gear, you move on.)

This is also a controversial topic it seems, so don't be surprised when you see like hundreds of different opinions.

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Originally Posted by Lyden

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No, that's how the game is currently. They are trying to do something different with blue mage but myself and others feel it's the wrong way to do things differently. I won't go into the debate on that here.

Quite a lot of us were hoping that when jobs like red mage or blue mage were added, it would make them push the limits of the trinity system or just move away from it. Some want a system that allows jobs to take on a different role based on the choices they make with some form of ability selection/talent system. Some, like myself, want a talent system that gives you options of improved versions of your job's abilities. An example of what we think that would allow us to do is something like a bard picking to buff their songs to better support the party but at the loss of damage potential by not selecting the other talents. It would be a system of trade offs and picking what kind of focus you want the job to have within its role. So it would be similar to WoW's talents but without any abilities as talents themselves and more of things like "when you use Cover, your Clemency healing on others is increased by 100%". Then have something that costs a good amount of the unlimited tomes to allow talent resets.

LauraAdalena opinions are okay even different opinions... i had feel alone in this huge world and was hoping for others opinions.

For myself i dont wanna compare this mmo with other mmorpgs ... i just wanna talk about Final Fantasy (MMO)i used WoW and the different feeling of gameplay to explain my feelings in FF14, just to make it much more clear what i want to tell u guys, and gear progression is even a thing in solotitels but there it happen naturally beside u play the game ( in FF14 it would be the same if the MSQ would provide u the gear u need for the MSQ stuff u do)
gear progression itself isnt a problem ... but the use of the gear and the way u get it can be a problem ...if all gear u get are the same (statvise) and (contentvise) than there is no need to try new things ... cause gear do all the same thats how it feels to me....

hrrrm exactly what i had in mind...
I love RDM in the solotitels and than we got this RDM in FF14 and it was just a agil BLM XD
Was a bit sad about it ( but okay he can heal much better than a BLM and rez everytime as fast as he has swiftcast viable, enough rdm for an trinityforce mmorpg i guess) *sigh *

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Originally Posted by Lyden

hrrrm exactly what i had in mind...
I love RDM in the solotitels and than we got this RDM in FF14 and it was just a agil BLM XD
Was a bit sad about it ( but okay he can heal much better than a BLM and rez everytime as fast as he has swiftcast viable, enough rdm for an trinityforce mmorpg i guess) *sigh *

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Yeah for rdm I would love if you had to choose between talents that did things like "your Impact spell increases the chance of getting Verfire/Verstone ready by 20%", "your Vercure heals the party member nearest to you or yourself for an extra 100 potency", or "Embolden is now Enspell adding an increasing potency bonus to attacks for 20 seconds". That last one would feel sort of like the tier 2 Enspells did on FFXI. The first one would probably give you better personal damage, second one increase the healing side of rdm and be a boost while solo, and the last one would give you better group damage utility.

I never really thought about it. I suppose they could do more via gear sets, and or class specs. Progression is a linear grind, and everyone should be using and wearing the same things in the end. Granted if not done right people could end up doing the same things in the end anyway.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I never really thought about it. I suppose they could do more via gear sets, and or class specs. Progression is a linear grind, and everyone should be using and wearing the same things in the end. Granted if not done right people could end up doing the same things in the end anyway.

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Yoshi P has said that gear sets would be something too hard to balance. He has said "won't do" to other things before so who knows. I think the proposed idea of limited jobs is mostly bad but really just needs a change of direction. I gave my idea in this thread about things like gear sets/set bonuses.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...44#post4825844

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Originally Posted by jon041065

Yoshi P has said that gear sets would be something too hard to balance. He has said "won't do" to other things before so who knows. I think the proposed idea of limited jobs is mostly bad but really just needs a change of direction. I gave my idea in this thread about things like gear sets/set bonuses.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...44#post4825844

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I just came back to the game a few days ago, so I don't know much about "limited" jobs, but in my opinion it sounds pointless. Blue mage does not sound like it will be executed well at all. It sounds lazy. I don't think "balancing issues" is a worthwhile excuse at all. This is an mmorpg. If next expansion would just be a level cap increase and 2 new skills, there are too many as it is. In my honest opinion the next step forward would be like what you suggest, having to choose one skill over another, gear sets that specialize in specific things, etc. Make progression less linear. They don't have to have super weapons, or armor as gearsets or item bonuses. However, I think they have already dug themselves in a hole since classes themselves are effectively specs.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I just came back to the game a few days ago, so I don't know much about "limited" jobs, but in my opinion it sounds pointless. Blue mage does not sound like it will be executed well at all. It sounds lazy. I don't think "balancing issues" is a worthwhile excuse at all. This is an mmorpg. If next expansion would just be a level cap increase and 2 new skills, there are too many as it is. In my honest opinion the next step forward would be like what you suggest, having to choose one skill over another, gear sets that specialize in specific things, etc. Make progression less linear. They don't have to have super weapons, or armor as gearsets or item bonuses. However, I think they have already dug themselves in a hole since classes themselves are effectively specs.

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I agree but let's not derail this thread getting into details of why we think limited jobs are bad. There are other threads where the debate is still happening.

The gear sets thing was more of an idea if they did onion knight/freelancer as a way to have open world content and add a lot of depth to a solo system. It would be cool if they found a way to have them in the full game though.

I was excited for rdm because I mained rdm in XI and it has been my favorite class across all ff games. And I too was disappointed that it was basically a blm knock off with a physical rotation that a lot of rdm don't even bother with, I mean even our sword becomes a staff while we cast. I loved the XI version because I could play heal, support, dps or a lil bit of each. I had buffs, debuffs, dots. I had ways to enhance my physical prowess and was a boon to any pt I was in. Yet at the same time, rdm wasn't necessary. We were also the kings of solo play if you had the time and skill to kite.

I was also hopeful for blu, one of my other alt jobs in XI, for the exact same reason. And I feel they perfected blu in XI. No other version is better and more true to the concept, imo, than the FFXI immortals. Even the story around it, with the blu being slowing driven mad, was amazing. The job stories in XIV I feel are really really bad and boring. I understand it would be a difficult job to balance and if the player doesn't have spell A B or C they wouldn't be included, but I honestly lay that at the feet of the player. Hunting spells was part of the fun of blu and if you didn't want to bother with it and therefore could not participate in certain content, that was on you. All they would need to do is not put the most important spells behind Extreme walls or make learn rates horribly low.

I main pup these days in XI and I am scared about how it will be treated here if they ever bring it.

I would LOVE to see them shake up the formula, but that is not what the XIV team is known for. Neither is thinking outside the box or being creative. Even when they try they fail horribly because the content we get is content that is completely oblivious to what we want or liked/disliked in the past. Eureka is proof of that with the "homage to XI" but then only adding the things ppl hated about XI into it.

They haven't changed anything but the coat of veneer they cover things with every patch since ARR launched. And frankly ppl have gotten cozy in the same ol same ol. I think if they would try to shake things up now, a lot of players would revolt. They have coddled us and kept things the same too long. I think they would literally need to release a whole new mmo at this point if they really wanted to make significant changes.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

I was excited for rdm because I mained rdm in XI and it has been my favorite class across all ff games. And I too was disappointed that it was basically a blm knock off with a physical rotation that a lot of rdm don't even bother with, I mean even our sword becomes a staff while we cast. I loved the XI version because I could play heal, support, dps or a lil bit of each. I had buffs, debuffs, dots. I had ways to enhance my physical prowess and was a boon to any pt I was in. Yet at the same time, rdm was necessary. We were also the kings of solo play if you had the time and skill to kite.

I was also hopeful for blu, one of my other alt jobs in XI, for the exact same reason. And I feel they perfected blu in XI. No other version is better and more true to the concept, imo, than the FFXI immortals. Even the story around it, with the blu being slowing driven mad, was amazing. The job stories in XIV I feel are really really bad and boring. I understand it would be a difficult job to balance and if the player doesn't have spell A B or C they wouldn't be included, but I honestly lay that at the feet of the player. Hunting spells was part of the fun of blu and if you didn't want to bother with it and therefore could not participate in certain content, that was on you. All they would need to do is not put the most important spells behind Extreme walls or make learn rates horribly low.

I main pup these days in XI and I am scared about how it will be treated here if they ever bring it.

I would LOVE to see them shake up the formula, but that is not what the XIV team is known for. Neither is thinking outside the box or being creative. Even when they try they fail horribly because the content we get is content that is completely oblivious to what we want or liked/disliked in the past. Eureka is proof of that with the "homage to XI" but then only adding the things ppl hated about XI into it.

They haven't changed anything but the coat of veneer they cover things with every patch since ARR launched. And frankly ppl have gotten cozy in the same ol same ol. I think if they would try to shake things up now, a lot of players would revolt. They have coddled us and kept things the same too long. I think they would literally need to release a whole new mmo at this point if they really wanted to make significant changes.

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Originally Posted by jon041065

I agree but let's not derail this thread getting into details of why we think limited jobs are bad. There are other threads where the debate is still happening.

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Yeah, I quoted myself. Big woop! Want to fight about it? lol <---- not actually directed at any specific person

@MicahZerrshia is FFXI still a thing is it playable and are there enough ppl to play the whole game?
Isnt FFXI close to get shut down ?

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Originally Posted by Lyden

@MicahZerrshia is FFXI still a thing is it playable and are there enough ppl to play the whole game?
Isnt FFXI close to get shut down ?

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No no no not even close. In fact we have seen a huge influx of ppl lately, esp since Ninja is streaming XI again and we are getting a fan fest of sorts again here in a couple weeks. There are around 3k ppl online at any given time on my server, we still get monthly updates and the game is still going super strong. They put in a lot of QoL fixes and its still a good time.

Ninja did a good job to promote this game (power of influencing) *laugh*

And rly wonderfull to hear this, is the playonline client still the same ?

I dont think you're playing wrong - I just think you're expecting the wrong thing from this game if you want to have different options on how to play a job, since FFXIV indeed doesnt offer those.

Instead you get to play all jobs on one character - if I'm not totally missinformed, a game like WoW doesnt allow for that, right? I'm mentioning it, because you brought it up - I've never played it, so I could be wrong, but I always thought that WoE allowed only one job per character and then some more or less limited customisation-options for that.
FFXIV went a different way with offering you to play all jobs on one character, but in exchange for that, there is one way to play each job. (Actually, thats not so different from the solo-games... in most of them you get the strongest gear for your character - and most often thats not a careful choice between several different types of boni but "This one has the most strength/magic, bought!" - and then you spam your best skill/highste cast)

So, no, you're not playing "wrong" - FFXIV is indeed very limited in its choices, there is basically one true rotation for each job (with slight variation) and the same holds true for BiS-gear (again, slight variation, depending on personal prefrences). Thats the trade-off we're making for balance and one character=all jobs.
Its the path FFXIV choose - you can like that or not, but I wouldnt expect it to change.

Yes, all RDMs play the same - but not all mage-jobs play the same way. There is your variation: Between jobs, not within them.

It is. But at this point I don't have much issues with it. There are also modders improving the graphics zone by zone. The QoL fixes SE implemented have been wonderful and every piece of content is still relevant. They even made new versions of Dynamis, salvage and such and added new stuff like Omen and Ambuscade. There is plenty to do solo and with groups. I think the only thing that's really dead at this point is abyssea.

BG wiki has a returners guide and a quickstart guide and you can google FFXI HD for the youtube page with the graphic improvements if you wanna see em. I would link em but I don't wanna be dinged for it.

Like I said its still going strong and there are still lots of ppl playing so if you haven't played in awhile you should check it out. I honestly still have more fun in XI than I do in XIV just because there is so much more to do.

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Originally Posted by Lyden

Everything i do is totally again the same like month before 1:1, i knew it and it was okay~ish but than those ways u play a job all mages has the same way to fulfill their role like physical range dps and so on just slightly differences but same upkeep of timers.
While i played i had this terrible feeling there is no chance to play ur job in a unique way even the rolepool actions are used all 10 now there is just one Danceperformance u have to fulfill and there is no chance to find a new way (in WoW u have choices in gear and skills which u can choose to define ur playstyle) but in FF14 there is no choice like this (have no problem with the GCD in FF14).... is this rly true or do i play that wrong?

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This is sadly the case. Since the Team decided that every job should not differ to much, they went to an even easier "skill system". By removing all damage role actions previously, they wanted to close the gap between casual and hardcore players. And yet you see a lot of players with low dps. Which means, getting customisation actions/skills for jobs will probably never happen due to that gap people argue about. About players not playing their job properly, people not wanting to read a guide and such.

Everything got easier for the sake of casuals.

You have just as much choice here as in WoW for what skills and rotations to use, and just as much lack of meansingful variety.

It is so similar I even use the same keybinds for the same things across jobs here and classes there.

Main rotation ti the middle 3 keys of my orbweaver, big hits to the bottoms 3, interrupts to the top row.
Two left most keys are shift and control/alt... mount key is in the same spot, push to talk is top left key...
- rotation based tab target MMOs will eventually all “play the same” across every class:job in a given role.

It actually gets worse though, in action-based MMOs where you tend to have only 4-8 skills on your action bar and it all comes down to aiming and dodging...

My guild wars, wildstar, ESO, and Overwatch are essentially the same... and one of those is an FPS game...

I can jumps into any one of these games and play a tank or a healer as more or less the same mental process. Especially since even in games like WOW I play my tanks and healers in high offense mode.

You get me tanking your MMO, you basically have me playing an FFXIV Warrior crossed with DvA,m. You get me healing, meet Lucio as a Fistweaving White Mage.

If you play these things for a different feeling in your fingers you will be disappointed...

I differentiate the games in the sounds, stories, and visuals.

I don’t see an edit button on the mobile version of this forum so to add...:

All of these games (save for ones with a tiny set of skills) tend to have many more skills than you need... and tab target rotation games also have a proper “order” to use the skills: either repeatable or based on procs going off or a mix.
- so you actually do have choices...
You can choose a sub optimal rotation at any time...
:)

But again, all of them have an ideal rotation or proc based choice system and it is so predictable that I can keybind it across a half dozen games and 50+ classes and still be using the same fingers in roughly the same order while standing or moving in the same predictable patterns across every game and class/job inside those games...

It isn’t just FFXIV that is stale here... it is the entire format of gaming...

I think you should play a different job. Mix it up a bit.

Yea have they been feeding the same cheese the past few years, of course. However they have tried to innovate with diadem, eureka, and now blue mage.

But if your completely dissatisfied then I would recommend just catching up on gear and then take a break until 5.0