Healer for speed running dungeons

I am going to level my healers next. Wich one is currently best for speed farming dungeons for tomes and gear? I have been gone for a while and is unsure about their current state.

In raid environment, SCH and AST are the current meta, but I believe WHM is still the strongest option for dungeons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jollyy5

In raid environment, SCH and AST are the current meta, but I believe WHM is still the strongest option for dungeons.

---

No, this has changed for a while now. SCH outdoes WHM by quite a bit while AST does more so long as you have Lightspeed up and extend it.

That being said, I do feel like it's more simple to holy spam and assize with WHM, it's just not the strongest anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

No, this has changed for a while now. SCH outdoes WHM by quite a bit while AST does more so long as you have Lightspeed up and extend it.

That being said, I do feel like it's more simple to holy spam and assize with WHM, it's just not the strongest anymore.

---

I figured mobs in dungeons wouldn't live long enough for SCH to squeeze all they can out of Bane and Miasma II, and that Chain Stratagem wouldn't be as strong with only 4 players, even less so on groups, but I'll take your word for it.

Even without the full extent of dots its still better. Miasma II spam is really powerful. I used to run all my dungeons as WHM but no longer do that, SCH streamlines it way more

I prefer WHM in the earlier dungeons, because Scholar is boring when you only attack and EOS can heal everything. Also, enemies die so fast you can't do much with your DOTs. AST is also boring because you don't have the fun cards yet. It basically has the same abilities as the WHM.

Around level 40, I prefer Scholar. Around 50-60, I prefer AST.

I have always found WHM to be the easiest though if you want to get used to healing.

I'd like to add here that Holy also has a stun component to it so it adds to the mitigation available, making it a more useful tool when you combine both the offensive and defensive capabilities of the spell.

Personally, I feel all healers could speed run each dungeon equally as effectively, it's just a matter of your comfort with the kits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I'd like to add here that Holy also has a stun component to it so it adds to the mitigation available, making it a more useful tool when you combine both the offensive and defensive capabilities of the spell.

Personally, I feel all healers could speed run each dungeon equally as effectively, it's just a matter of your comfort with the kits.

---

This is also true. While I just said that SCH it's better at speedrunning a dungeon, I personally can't dish out that sort of DPS without having the tank in mortal peril as a SCH.
SCH is on paper the best, but if you're more comfortable on WHM or AST you'll have a faster time with them.

The answer is always scholar.

Trust me, if you are going to be farming dungeons you won't shave a significant portion off your time unless you aren't DPS'ing at all. You are going to want to pick an easy class where you can turn on a 2nd monitor and watch some shows while you DPS & Heal a dungeon.

WHM is amazing for this with it's regens and holy. Alternate thin air, and Lucid dream so you don't run out of mana casting Holy. Don't even bother with Aero III or Aero II if you don't want to, but make sure you at least spam Stone IV on the bosses. Like Exiled Tonberry said, I'm pretty sure you can squeeze out more DPS out with a SCH, but it takes more effort. That sort of thing really drains people if you have to run like 6 dungeons in a row, it makes it a lot more manageable if you can chill and watch some netflix while you did a dungeon.

Edit: Also Benediction is a life saver if you go brain dead hitting Stone IV on the boss while not looking at the tanks health because you were watching Konan. >.>

Holy spam can stun, yes...

But then, SCH (with 3 aetherflow stacks) have 3 ogcd lustrates that heal for a hefty amount plus the faerie healing while it Miasma 2's the packs of enemies.

Also, I have no idea how people think WHM is the "easy healer"... Between SCH's Lustrates, Indomitability and Faerie off-healing, I really feel bummed at the "raw healing potency" of WHM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raikai

Also, I have no idea how people think WHM is the "easy healer.

---

This. Unless your tank is crazy squishy. Admittedly I only run expert roulette for the most part now a days but I find it way easier on SCH. Adlo, excog, prepull and faery... done. Might need to heal the tank every now and then (rare), or if they’re a little squishy but otherwise it’s all dps. And miasma 2 instant cast is so much easier to do than holy 3h cast spam when mobs are dishing out aoes.

In addition to this I find that holy spam stun can be detrimental when tanks want to make everyone’s life easier by stunning specific mobs.

Quote:

---

Also, I have no idea how people think WHM is the "easy healer.

---

- No pets, cards, stances or class-designs to consider seeing as Lillies can be safely ignored - it's literally just you, the health bars and the enemies.
- A kit with minimal 'ramp up' to hit peak. Assize/Holy/DoTs/Stone isn't exactly hard to execute, made easier by multiple HotS to reduce healing requirement.
- Two strong oGCDs - if you're levelling up or spamming dungeons like OP suggests, these will be very handy for the inevitable tanks in gear 30-100il below the norm who think they're multi-pulling gods.
- No mana concerns once Thin Air and Lucid are on the table. Even AST's levelling up will have to consider holding Ewer on the road to max, whereas getting TA+Lucid on a WHM is GG to mana-issues indefinitely.

You can bang on about ease of pets, better damage overall and all those fancy details - but the majority of those regard min/maxing or later content, whereas the OP has asked about levelling up in dungeons. I can't speak for SCH, which I levelled up to 30 before I puked, but as a WHM main who recently levelled up AST (which was enjoyable, albeit frequent need to hold Ewers from time to time), WHM always was and likely always will be the smoothest ride, just not necessarily the strongest.

WHM is the least gear dependent healer. Makes for the smoothest leveling for sure. But OP did mention farming tomes for gear so I can only assume we’re talking about 70 dungeons.

all healers are great for speed runs. However! Your ability to dps depends on if your tank is able to mitigate damage effectively. if you're trying to keep your tank alive then you won't get much deeps done.

That being said healer ques are the best imo. you can spam dungeons like potd or hoh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EaMett

But OP did mention farming tomes for gear so I can only assume we’re talking about 70 dungeons.

---

Clearly, the best solution is to farm without a healer then!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Clearly, the best solution is to farm without a healer then!

---

Do my eyes deceive me? DPS using Erase? Today truly IS a joyous day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Erakir

Do my eyes deceive me? DPS using Erase? Today truly IS a joyous day.

---

I use it a lot as RDM :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raikai

But then, SCH (with 3 aetherflow stacks) have 3 ogcd lustrates that heal for a hefty amount plus the faerie healing while it Miasma 2's the packs of enemies.

---

Aetherflow needs to be used for more then just 3 ogcd lustrates. Before the tank pulls on SCH, I aldo and cast excog. That's one stack down, then during the pull I use Miasma I and Bio II throw down my shadowflare and make sure I use bane to spread my dots. All while weaving the oGCD into places it can fit. That's 2 stacks down. If you have 3 oGCD lustrates because you aren't using excog a basic spell to help you DPS more, sorry but you are a bad Scholar.

Edit:This is compared to WHM which can just cast a couple of regens and spam Holy without worrying about their mana with Thin Air.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EaMett

And miasma 2 instant cast is so much easier to do than holy 3h cast spam when mobs are dishing out aoes. In addition to this I find that holy spam stun can be detrimental when tanks want to make everyone’s life easier by stunning specific mobs.

---

Miasma II has a potency of 100 and it doesn't have a stun attached to heavily reduce the damage a tank takes. Holy starts with a potency of 200, has a stun (amazing), and doesn't get reduced to 100 potency until the 6th enemy. It can also be combined with presence of mind for even faster stuns and more milage out of Thin Air.

I have never ever heard a tank complain about Holy Stunning a mob they wanted to stun, this seems so far fetched it's probably made up. If that fool of tank does exist, does he also get mad at the Melee DPS classes for stunning targets?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ftail

This is compared to WHM which can just cast a couple of regens before the pull and spam Holy without worrying about their mana with Thin Air.
?

---

On what planet do you live on where you can put up regens before a pull? On trash this would just be silly, the tank would hate you. Problematic even if you tried to stay right on top of the tank. On bosses, it would be a good way to move the boss out of position or take an attack to the face. Most tanks will remove regens on them when doing trash pulls. Not to say WHM doesn't have nice tools but pre HoTing before the pulls isn't one of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElroyDrundan

On what planet do you live on where you can put up regens before a pull? On trash this would just be silly, the tank would hate you. Problematic even if you tried to stay right on top of the tank. On bosses, it would be a good way to move the boss out of position or take an attack to the face. Most tanks will remove regens on them when doing trash pulls. Not to say WHM doesn't have nice tools but pre HoTing before the pulls isn't one of them.

---

Good correction, it's best to throw the regen on right after the tank establishes aggro on trash mobs. But my main point about regens and holy spam is still untouched. Edit: I edited the post you quoted me in because you made a good point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElroyDrundan

On what planet do you live on where you can put up regens before a pull? On trash this would just be silly, the tank would hate you. Problematic even if you tried to stay right on top of the tank. On bosses, it would be a good way to move the boss out of position or take an attack to the face. Most tanks will remove regens on them when doing trash pulls. Not to say WHM doesn't have nice tools but pre HoTing before the pulls isn't one of them.

---

Off-topic, but I tanked the Vault on my PLD (I'm usually a healer). Healer pre-casted Aspected Helios Diurnal every...single...pull.

How do people even think that's a good idea?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ftail

I have never ever heard a tank complain about Holy Stunning a mob they wanted to stun, this seems so far fetched it's probably made up. If that fool of tank does exist, does he also get mad at the Melee DPS classes for stunning targets?

---

First off I never mentioned anyone outright complaining about it, I said it was detrimental. And it certainly isn't made up. Just look at the burn for instance with those huge worm aoes. Many a tank and/or dps will stun those. Holy doesn't give you the opportunity to do any aoe management because you immunize mobs to stun really early in the pull. People don't complain because healer's doing dps, good enough they just deal with it. Doesn't make it nice. And this is far from being the only example.

Also you seem to forget that you can cast miasma II more often than holy, and aren't accounting for the dot, or the fact there's no reduction per enemy, or the fact the sch can weave dps in between, or the fact the sch doesn't need to break cast to move out of aoes, or the fact sch doesn't need to break cast to heal (doesn't even have to heal at all most of the time, prepull adlo, E4E, faerie heals, mitigation,tether are more than enough), or the other 3 multi target dots the scholar has etc. etc. Adding all of these end to end make a significant difference. I've played WHM all my FF14 playtime until recently. I wouldn't even bother trying to compete with my sch. It's hard enough for me to outdps my own sch with a dps class... let alone another healer class.

Quote:

---

I said it was detrimental. Holy doesn't give you the opportunity to do any aoe management because you immunize mobs to stun really early in the pull. People don't complain because healer's doing dps, good enough they just deal with it. Doesn't make it nice. And this is far from being the only example.

---

So AoE management is detrimental to AoE management. Ok. Except that by the time you've stunned them, eg. those worms, they'll already be casting their AoE and thus there is no real loss to interrupting it - and while stunned x 2 there is ample time for a tank to do whatever they feel is appropriate for enmity. It is also not likely that a WHM would be casting Holy at any point before the tank is in their desired spot, unless - like me - you occasionally consider a QC/Holy while sprinting vs half of a double pull to give tanks breathing room while they move to the next batch. There is also no need to 'leave' that area until you've done a whole session of PoM/TA/CS + Holy Bonanza seeing as it'll interrupt all of them until the time your buffs have faded, and let's not pretend like there's anything else to do provided you have opened with Aero 3.

You can talk about weaving and pet heals and all that jazz - but at no point in any Burn run as a WHM (of which I've done many) has anyone even considered complaining about me annihilating all those massive pulls with Holy, nor was it detrimental to healing, tanking or DPS, nor was it difficult in any capacity at all. As an ex-PLD main and a War-alt partial to Low-Blowing problematic mobs to stop casts such as Worm AoE (ie. two tanks I loved stunning with), I would be very happy to have myself as a Healer.

Quote:

---

I have never ever heard a tank complain about Holy Stunning a mob they wanted to stun, this seems so far fetched it's probably made up.

---

I can recall two instances where a tank whined about my Holy - once when "The Fractal Continuum (Hard)" was the 'latest' - a PLD complained about my holy spam against a double-pull - he genuinely preferred I didn't do DPS at all simply because the pull contained a Minotaur, so he and his friend kicked me out, which is hilarious given said group had no actual AoE in terms of DPS roles so I was out-performing the damage dealers in those situations and neither the tank, DPS nor myself where under any actual threat of coming even close to dying, nevermind getting damaged. As someone who plays tanks AND healers myself, all I could do was laugh and enjoy an instant queue-pop that gave me a group (with another PLD) who laughed along with me at it, seeing as I entered and jokingly asked "You're not going to kick me for using Holy like the last bunch, are you?" - when I tank, I'd have loved that healer - the most I used to get at the time where AFK'ers who'd Cure 99% healthbars back when that was far more prevalent.

I forget the specifics of the other incident but I definitely remember two instances of tanks taking the time to stop playing and get salty about Holy, without it being a conflict between DRK/WHM who refuse to adapt to eachother (Holy vs DRK's AoE sustain).

Even if AST and SCH pull more DPS, WHM wins dungeon mowing with assize alone. Though this is more due to preference. That instant 300 potency with no dmg reduction regardless of number of targets, and also respectable range is just too good, and feels good to use and weave between gcds. If you're like me, and enjoy being a little too close in melee range for comfort, Assize is like the most yummy pudding ever.

So I would just take the healer you feel the most comfortable with. For me it's usually WHM because on top of my love for Assize, it's a more basic healer that doesn't have to micro manage anything.

Thank you all for the replys. I am currently sch70 whm65 and ast61 and enjoying them all. And had totaly forgot MiasmaIi so that might improve the speed on my sch. So now I only need the last few levels and then the dungeon farming can begin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LazyTitan87

How do people even think that's a good idea?

---

By forgetting or not knowing about healing aggro generation.

Well, I learned that on the hard way, after aggroing an entire pack of monsters just putting a regen too early back when I was doing my 1st run on Stone Vigil. Good times...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RopeDrink

[...] but at no point in any Burn run as a WHM (of which I've done many) has anyone even considered complaining about me annihilating all those massive pulls with Holy [...]

---

This was my point. No one is going to complain. Also you say it isn't detrimental but holy spamming those worms immunizes them within seconds of the pull. If your two dps are melee lets see how much they enjoy having to run out of range to avoid getting hit. When I ran as WHM I would tell my melee to just stand in those big aoes so we could burn through the packs faster. As SCH they actually AoE manage more than you would expect.

All of this is relative to how fast the packs burn. The faster, the less immunization to stun is an issue. But in my experience it's quite rare for packs to burn all that quickly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EaMett

This was my point. No one is going to complain. Also you say it isn't detrimental but holy spamming those worms immunizes them within seconds of the pull. If your two dps are melee lets see how much they enjoy having to run out of range to avoid getting hit. When I ran as WHM I would tell my melee to just stand in those big aoes so we could burn through the packs faster. As SCH they actually AoE manage more than you would expect.

All of this is relative to how fast the packs burn. The faster, the less immunization to stun is an issue. But in my experience it's quite rare for packs to burn all that quickly.

---

Not only that, the highest incoming damage for the tank is when he/she stops and the pack swarms in. Every telegraph comes with that lovely bonus auto attack that benefits both us and the enemy when a skill is used. Stuns are the most important at the beginning when the DMG is the heaviest, and the sooner the WHM gets Holy off, the better. I love it when DRKs complain, and I have to educate them that stunning 3 packs of mobs all at once trumps their stupid bloodprice. Dumbass DRK should've used it during the pull so they have full MP when they come to a stop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jollyy5

In raid environment, SCH and AST are the current meta, but I believe WHM is still the strongest option for dungeons.

---

WHM is only really best in fights when you have early and strong mob AoEs to stun that would otherwise force your melee out and thereby disrupt AoEing, which are few even in the instances that have them at all. In any other situation, WHM is the worst speed-runner, even if not by a huge margin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

WHM is only really best in fights when you have early and strong mob AoEs to stun that would otherwise force your melee out and thereby disrupt AoEing, which are few even in the instances that have them at all. In any other situation, WHM is the worst speed-runner, even if not by a huge margin.

---

Depends on the dungeon. AST has an instant stun, but WHM has a constant stun for at least 2 gcds before they become immune for a time. Assize is also instant 300 potency on all targets within range, and that is something no other healer has. This is extremely beneficial in dungeons when low HP adds swarm in, which is common in dungeons. You can argue Miasma 2 and Earthly star all day, but WHM will rid of them faster each and every time. Especially if you add a SC+holy in there on top of assize.

AST and SCH overall DPS might be higher, but I am curious about their burst damage, which seems to be strongly in favor of WHM. And overall DMG don't mean dick when the fights aren't long enough to make them an argument. And we're talking dungeons here.

Not to be rude, but does this thread even matter? The DPS difference between SCH, WHM, and AST for a speed run will save you what? A few seconds at most?

It's the DPS classes that you really need to be looking at to save time.

I have runned lot dungeons with whm and sch and dps difference is barely noticeable. Same is if you compare between blm or smn, you can barely say who is doing more dps. Difference is way more bigger if you compare between mch or blm or if you compare between pld or warr. You can clearly say who is doing more dps, but between healers difference is that small it should not even matter.