Where is the DRG right now in terms of viability, popularity, meta/end game?
I used to love playing DRG but haven’t even equipped a lance since probably 3.1, when I threw one on last night I realized that soo many of my abilities are gone or change and my hotbars are a hot mess!
I know, I know..all classes are viable, play what you enjoy, don’t listen to what everyone else says, blah blah! Lol
But I want to hear what everyone says, I want to know pros and cons, the good the bad AND the ugly.
State of Dragoon?
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11-24-2018, 10:41 AMGrafeitState of Dragoon?
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11-24-2018, 11:03 AMHierro
It's part of the meta, what more do you need than that?
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11-24-2018, 11:53 AMGrafeit
Well...so is SAM but there’s a lot of SAM hate..DRK can be part of the meta, but gets little to no credit. The general consensus of DRG is that they’re the first to fly and first to die. Where do they shine, what’s different now, what’re the cons to DRG? Are they in a great spot at the moment, basically average, or less than average?
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11-24-2018, 01:08 PMDarkpaw
the LulDRG thing hasn't really been a thing at all this expansion. Yea if you do a derp moment you might hear in duty finder groups or pug groups. LulDRG or LULgoon. But no one is going to give you crap for playing a DRG. Balance wise it's from what I know in a pretty good spot. Definitely better than most. I haven't seen a lot of complaints about it. It does decent damage brings decent raid utility. It's fairly straightforward in it's rotation but optimizing can still be a bit tricky at times if you theorycraft yourself. There are plenty of guides to help. There's really not many cons to playing a dragoon. Still be weary of animation lock on jump it's better but not completely fixed. Be aware of your surroundings, don't stand in AoE's. You'll always find spots in groups. It's a little lacking in the AoE department with no real AoE rotation but it can still aoe, and that's just my opinion.
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11-24-2018, 01:40 PMGrimoire-M
Dragoon is fine. Bard is fine. However, their interactions together are not. Dragoon does need a bit of a personal DPS boost to make up for any piercing changes that come next expansion, assuming we get them. And Bard needs changes to its procs. If not, DRG will remain where it is. It's probably the easiest melee job to get a handle on compared to the rest, and in a comfortable spot thanks to Bard alone.
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11-25-2018, 01:32 AMFrizze
You have piercing down(desired by every group with a bard machinist or both... so almost every group), litany(who doesnt like more crit?), and you can use your eye buff on anyone willing to stand close enough... and youre worried about viability and popularity?
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11-25-2018, 02:53 AMHierroThe term "meta" means the optimal combination. Neither SAM nor DRK are part of the meta, sad to say. DRG is, and that's a big deal. Let me spell it out for you, if you're in the meta, you're more than fine, you're GREAT! There isn't any stigma surrounding DRG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grafeit
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11-25-2018, 04:07 AMGrafeitSo DRK isn’t meta because it has a steep learning curve? I don’t understand, anyone I’ve talked to says that DRK is just as good as the other tanks, except that it requires more effort..As far as SAM, what makes SAM non-meta? Lack of raid buffs/utility?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hierro
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11-25-2018, 04:28 AMHierroDRK as a tank is fine. It has damage on par with everyone else and mitigation on par with everyone else, but the reason it's not part of the meta is because of how LB is gained. PLD's utility allows parties to abuse LB, and DRK can't do that. If the way LB gauge was gained got fixed, then DRK could be a viable candidate for meta. It has nothing to do with their learning curve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grafeit
SAM isn't part of the meta, because if you assume you're playing with the best players, you get more rDPS by giving them buffs and utility whereas SAM has none. That's not to say SAM doesn't have merits, such as in parties where players aren't so great. rDPS will likely be higher with a good SAM in "your average pf pug" party, than a good NIN. -
11-25-2018, 11:33 PMBourne_Endeavor
DRG is arguably the best melee in the game at the moment due to how hilariously powerful piercing is for range DPS. And you will find very few BRDs or MCHs willing to run Savage without a DRG. In fact, it's currently the second most popular job if FFlog uploads are anything to go by. Put simply, it's very comfy in its meta spot.
As for SAM. While it's in a much better spot nowadays, it still doesn't quite match the utility NIN offers. That being said, it's a viable option—more so in Alphascape than in any previous tier. DRK is in an odd position. It actually boasts the strongest overall damage but simply lacks the tools to take advantage of it. Furthermore, with no party support abilities, easily the most cumbersome immunity and a spam-happy playstyle, it simply isn't popular nor does it do anything Paladin and Warrior don't do better. The sole exception is direct mitigation tools. DRK does excel here, especially in a magic heavy fight. Dark Mind is borderline broken in certain fights and TBN gives it a near on-demand Rampart. Unfortunately, they just aren't enough to offset how Cover, Shake it Off, Passage, Divine Veil and Holmgang are. -
11-26-2018, 01:55 AMLyth
From the standpoint of the average NA/EU player, the single most influential factor in bringing a job is whether you make your teammates' dps look better. Your personal dps is a distant second. As long as DRGs bring Piercing, they're going to be a must pick. Your BRD will make sure of that. The same is true for NIN and Trick for most groups, although I think that that's also a case of supply not quite meeting demand.
Personally, I think they should get rid of the Slashing and Piercing buffs, simply because they add nothing to gameplay, and your damage potential shouldn't hinge on forcing you to bring certain jobs (let's face it, it's not like you need to force players to bring a WAR, NIN, or DRG). Out of eight possible raid spots, four to five of those have almost always filled by the same jobs for nearly six years now. I think it's high time to shake things up. -
11-26-2018, 01:56 AMDuskane
its fine
like the real its fine
not the Drk its fine -
11-26-2018, 02:27 AMExiled_Tonberry
DRK is "fine".
And by fine, I mean that you can still clear content. Your job may be a clunky, weak, unbalanced, nonsensical mess that does everything worse than everyone else and is nothing but a handicap to serious raids, but you can clear content so in everyone's eyes you're "fine". -
11-26-2018, 03:21 AMDarkpawWith the exception to the rule being mch which is just god awful and ping gated horribly so most people can’t play it optimally. But yea everything else is just fine to play in end gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
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11-26-2018, 05:27 AMJinzhuMCH isn't god awful. It's only a bit worse than it's counterpart in one ranged comps but is still plenty strong in a DRG/NIN/MCH/BRD comp. The main problem with MCH is that it got super shafted with gear and that BRDs damage scales per raid tier with more crit. But yes it's design is pretty awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpaw
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11-26-2018, 08:20 AMShurrikhanDRG, BRD, and NIN have been the most desired jobs of Stormblood since DRG's buffs, if not before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grafeit
SAM has been relatively excluded from the meta until the very latest patch, certainly more so than DRK or generally even WHM.
A very obvious flaw of fflogs is that it compares only personal dps, not raid dps contribution, and only against others of the same job. Thus, the more rDPS you give, the higher others parses without your own percentile suffering, but the more personal dps you give, the more you need others to give rDPS just to hold average. It badly slights personal DPS jobs (as, despite their higher amounts, their percentages/averages will just shift accordingly) and those who raid with them (as they'll be denied the tools to appear to be good players). -
11-26-2018, 09:10 AMJinzhuCheck out XIVRDPS! it's a really cool website that cuts out the damage from raid buffs and gives a near accurate DPS in the form of raid dps!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
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11-26-2018, 11:29 AMHierroThis just in-- having the strongest personal dps and strongest personal mitigation is "weak and unbalanced!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
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11-26-2018, 11:38 AMLyth
In what content and what percentile are you cherry-picking DRK as doing more dps than WAR now? I'm also curious what your metric is for mitigation, especially given how broken Holmgang is.
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11-26-2018, 11:51 AMHierrothe fellas at the balance have mathed out dps for every tank and found drk to be the highest, doncha kno?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyth
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11-26-2018, 11:59 AMLyth
Everyone is theoretically the best in their own minds. Reality tends to have different opinions on the matter.
Target dummy rotations tend to diverge from what happens in practice because fights don't work like that. You lose uptime. The boss goes untargetable. Sustained dps invariably loses out to burst. This is where WAR, with a 10 second dummy-proof burst window which accounts for most of their dps, tends to pull ahead. That's also why the gap is largest at lower skill levels and narrows to a slightly more reasonable difference at higher skill levels. -
11-26-2018, 12:01 PMJinzhuThat's only in an isolated dummy fight situation. WAR overtakes due to job design. No fight this tier is 100% uptime so the calculation represent no actual fights this tier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hierro
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11-26-2018, 12:34 PMHierroYou can argue WAR also lags behind due to job design as well, given that optimal DPS is 100% reliant on kill time, and that's just isn't in your hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinzhu
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11-26-2018, 12:44 PMJinzhuI'm just quoting what the Balance discord said. DRK suffers more from missed potential GCDs than WAR does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hierro
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11-26-2018, 01:05 PMAquaslash
As long as Disembowel gives pierce down, DRG will remain a must pick.