[Suggestion] S Rank mark supplement

I would like to talk about the current system we have for S rank marks, the toxic environment that seems to be brewing within it, and a supplement to the current system that could solve the issue entirely. As of right now, stated by GMs whose name I will not state unless asked by an SE employee, the way hunts are designed players are not obligated to wait, and is a first come first serve type basis. While I do agree with this to an extent, unfortunately this system just isn't working anymore due to level differences, and in some cases hardware differences between players.

Ever since the introduction of the tiger mount to the hunt achievements, the popularity of them has increased tremendously. While this is a good thing, it comes with problems as well. Unfortunately, a handful of players who already have the mount have taken it upon themselves to do whatever it takes to get these marks found, pulled, and killed before a good majority of players can arrive. Even as far as upgrading hardware with SSD's to give them that edge to load in quicker. Players who are actually putting effort into spawning these S rank marks are missing out. To me, I see this as a type of griefing, but unfortunately it is not seen that way.

So, we ask ourselves what can we do? Unfortunately not a lot. The playing ground for S ranks isn't level across the player base. The suggestion of turning S ranks into fate like mobs has come up, however I do not think this would solve the problem entirely. We would still have the issue of players aiming to cause grief in the community rushing to get the mark pulled immediately, and we also risk these same players "sniping" the marks. Not to mention the amount of time it takes for these S ranks to spawn. A lot of players have jobs, and some have resorted to logging in via remote play on devices so they can try to get some credit towards the S ranks.

So, what can we do? I think S rank marks should be similar to the item pop NMs that were in FFXI. We have plenty of currency to buy pop items from the hunt npcs in towns, not to mention the log books that still drop from A.R.R. mobs that can be used as well. (We could even use poetics as a form of currency to exchange for pop items.)

To add onto this would be system, each S rank could have a weekly cool down to prevent players from spamming a single mark and getting the achievement within a few days. (Come on, they're not meant to be done over night.) The lockout would be similar to what they have for the savage raids I believe, or something similar.

Example, and I'll use a light party set up for the sake of less typing, we have a WAR, WHM, BLM, SAM that have created a PF to go out and pop The Garlok. The WAR goes to the hunt npc in their home city and buys it with either 1k allied seals, 10 unstained mark logs, or 1k poetics. Then they go to Eastern La Noscea, and find the "???" and trade the pop item to it. Boom, hey there's The Garlok! The party kills it, and they won't be able to spawn it again until the next week. Now, it's the next day, and the SAM from the same party joins a different group that wants to spawn The Garlok, well since the SAM defeated the mark the previous day, and it's not reset day, the party would be unable to pop the mark until the SAM leaves the party.

A and B marks would be the same as they are now, since they respawn fairly quickly. The "item pop S rank" would merely be a healthy supplement to the system without replacing it entirely. This would level the playing field completely, and with this server visitation coming up this idea would appear to be a wonderful addition.

Thank you for taking the time to read this wall of text. I know this will not solve all the issues that we face in the hunt scene, but I do believe this would help alleviate some of the pains players feel when working towards S ranks.

Have a good day! Remember to drink water.

Part of me wishes we had S rank hunts that functioned like certain NMs in XI in that they have a chance to drop an item can be used to summon another tougher hunt had that's automatically tagged to your party when it shows up.

I forgot to mention, and I apologize, but the S ranks spawned by the item pop would be like the leve quest/treasure chest duty mobs. Where only the party can attack.

I think for the S rank ones only they could make them Lv??? and scalable in some way so they don't die really fast and stay formidable even as the player level cap keeps increasing. Or they should work on a system which allows us to sync our level to that of a target (enemy or player) and maybe think about enforcing the sync to damage the S rank.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

I think for the S rank ones only they could make them Lv??? and scalable in some way so they don't die really fast and stay formidable even as the player level cap keeps increasing. Or they should work on a system which allows us to sync our level to that of a target (enemy or player) and maybe think about enforcing the sync to damage the S rank.

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That appears to be the general..opinion? (I believe that's the word I'm looking for.) However another complaint I've seen is the time it takes for an S mark to be "spawnable" again. Some take quite a few days, so players miss out entirely. The item pop, weekly lock out would eliminate that completely and let players "plan" the night they go out to "hunt" them down. (Again, leveling the playing field for everyone.)

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Originally Posted by Darian_Tepes

Unfortunately, a handful of players who already have the mount have taken it upon themselves to do whatever it takes to get these marks found, pulled, and killed before a good majority of players can arrive. Even as far as upgrading hardware with SSD's to give them that edge to load in quicker. Players who are actually putting effort into spawning these S rank marks are missing out. To me, I see this as a type of griefing, but unfortunately it is not seen that way.

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I was going to suggest you just let them do the work for easier hunts, but I reread the post and saw "killed before a good majority of players can arrive". Why is it wrong for those hunters to spawn and pull a hunt, but it's not wrong for "a good majority of players" to contribute nothing and expect something?

Spawning an S rank doesn't entitle you to the hunt and is only done to increase the chances of a spawn while you're online. "Early pulling" with the intent to grief is reportable. Spawning and killing hunts without telling anyone ("sniping") is perfectly fine, regardless of the reasons.

FATEs and invincibility for a few minutes on spawn aren't suggested as a fix for hunts, but to allow more players to zone in (particularly those that don't contribute) and get credit.

Reduce/eliminate old hunt respawn times and tie rewards to bills or the challenge log.

I don't see a problem with the current setup.

The rewards are rightfully there for those who put the time and effort into causing the S class spawns. If they decide to shout out to other people to take part, then that's lovely, but they do not have to, and should not be made to feel they should, whether they have the rewards already or not.

There's also no real reason why people should feel that they have a right to be invited if they haven't done anything to spawn it. That's entitlement.

NOTE: I just want to say that I have two macros which I use regularly, to announce both weekly hunt marks and A/S class marks to my FC, the 7 linkshells I'm in, and a final /shout, and will also hang around in the event anyone needs help. While I appreciate it when players announce hunts and offer invites, I also would never EXPECT it.

Perhaps I wasn't clear, but waiting for those afking in Ul'Dah? Don't care. I'm sure we can agree on that. But giving a chance for the people taking time out of their busy schedules to help spawn it and they miss out? (Even when in the zone.) That's the issue. But we can sit all day and throw scenarios back and forth at each other. Like on my server? One of the players who immediately pulls will end up sitting in a corner the majority of the time while others work on spawning the s rank, and is on the move as soon as it pops. (Only sometimes do they appear to be "contributing.") Half the time the damn thing pops on top of them, to which they yank it immediately. (ARR/HW marks that is.)

I am not sure if any of you all know as well, but it's been discovered that you can "weed out" the spawn locations by keeping track where the B and A ranks spawn. (It's a double edged sword IMO.) Most use this for the marks such as Nandi, Mindflayer. Players keep pictures of maps on google docs, with white circles that are the spawn locations, and mark them red if the B/A rank is seen there, and purple when they figure out where the spawn location is.

I agree with you two, players don't have to share these marks. (And it's been said by a GM players are not obligated to wait.) It's nice if they even announce it and wait a single minute. (For the players that are out in the zones actively hunting.) But we can sit here and argue about this entitlement that we are discussing. Take the current system we have now, and we will definitely mention those who sit and wait. Now look at this supplement I suggested. You have to go out and hunt your daily marks, the weekly B ranks, and the A ranks to save up the seals needed. Then put up a PF to gather members. Go out, find the trade spot (Which can be random.) pop it, and then fight the mark on your own terms. (Where as the former, one could just sit and wait while others work.) Again, this supplement I suggested is just to level out the playing field and give an equal opportunity to everyone working on that achievement.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

"Early pulling" with the intent to grief is reportable.

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Could you provide an example? I've been told some people have reported it as "Not being able to obtain cracked clusters.", but unless it's someone pulling and then harassing, I don't see how it's reportable after a GM has stated players are not obligated to share/wait.

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Originally Posted by Darian_Tepes

Could you provide an example?

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A: "Would it kill you to wait before pulling? You didn't even help spawn it."
B: "Maybe X shouldn't have done Y"

"Pulling early" and spamming emotes after the fact to taunt players.

The thing is, any proof has to be detectable by the GMs.

Let's be real here people. Square has the Hunt on one of the lowest priority positions it could ever be. The only thing that will change is that we get another mount for 10k A / 5k S

Also agreed with the others, it's just nice of us to report our S-Spawns. Nobody(apart the occasional one guy in 20 hunts) ever actually thanks you. You just maybe even get the hate if someone early pulls. Read the most funny stuff already, like "why the f do you even link it if you pull it early anyways". Like any "real" S-Spawner would ever early pull(apart from it being needed because someone has to go or so).

Peoples mentality will never change on hunts and SE's thinking about hunts will never change either. We gotta live with what we have. Calling it now, Shadowbringers will have 2B/A 1S per zone again and nothing else will change.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

A: "Would it kill you to wait before pulling? You didn't even help spawn it."
B: "Maybe X shouldn't have done Y"

"Pulling early" and spamming emotes after the fact to taunt players.

The thing is, any proof has to be detectable by the GMs.

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Thanks for the response. I figured that would be your answer, though a part of me thinks the response and how the situation is handle depends on the GM.

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Originally Posted by Froggy_Ferrinas

Let's be real here people. Square has the Hunt on one of the lowest priority positions it could ever be. The only thing that will change is that we get another mount for 10k A / 5k S

Also agreed with the others, it's just nice of us to report our S-Spawns. Nobody(apart the occasional one guy in 20 hunts) ever actually thanks you. You just maybe even get the hate if someone early pulls. Read the most funny stuff already, like "why the f do you even link it if you pull it early anyways". Like any "real" S-Spawner would ever early pull(apart from it being needed because someone has to go or so).

Peoples mentality will never change on hunts and SE's thinking about hunts will never change either. We gotta live with what we have. Calling it now, Shadowbringers will have 2B/A 1S per zone again and nothing else will change.

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I don't doubt it, but never hurts to try. The worse that happens is they say no, and we pretty much get the same.

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Originally Posted by Froggy_Ferrinas

Let's be real here people. Square has the Hunt on one of the lowest priority positions it could ever be. The only thing that will change is that we get another mount for 10k A / 5k S

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About time they changed their attitude then. The hunt has a massive community and lots of players involved. For Enix this is a big bonus, it's extra content to keep us occupied and all it really needs is some tweaking.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

About time they changed their attitude then. The hunt has a massive community and lots of players involved. For Enix this is a big bonus, it's extra content to keep us occupied and all it really needs is some tweaking.

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Absolutely. But still Square doesn't respect our "massive community" the slightest. I just lost hope in them hearing us or changing anything.(We should get into contact btw since we are neighbours when World visit hits o/)

Personally, I'd like to see less qualifiers (items needed spawning, etc.) for S ranks and more pops. A ranks for mount have been done a while but many more S ranks to try and get. Changing to 1k rather than 2k for V would be a help due to the early puller jerks also.

If it wasn't for hunt trains and groups Liam, I wouldn't be playing. Not a dungeon runner period unless I HAVE to.

There is a guy on my server that does not share S rank calls with the rest of the hunt community and if they show from the call of one of his group members, he early pulls so they cannot get and has called them leeches, etc.. Otherwise, sans that toxic person, we have a very healthy, sharing and organized hunt community. I would very much like to see additional ways to accumulate more S ranks

I don’t see a problem with the current system.
Courtesy is nice but shouldn’t be expected. I’ll give it but if I miss a hunt, oh well I probably wasn’t there spawning it.

People should stop assuming the thing will wait for the whole server.
Just wait for the World Visit system. I’m sure you’ll have people hunting in various worlds across each data centre. If you want it before these strangers get it, go spawn it.

It's not expected, we just prefer courtesy. Even those of us who spawn it, prefer to be courteous and share with others. It doesn't have to be shared with the entire server, generally 5 mins to drop what you're doing and get there is more than enough and if you miss that, too bad.

Considering spawning and sharing is something a lot of players enjoy, we're simply suggesting Enix help facilitate that. An ARR S-Rank doesn't have to die in 3 seconds or be soloable.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

Spawning an S rank doesn't entitle you to the hunt and is only done to increase the chances of a spawn while you're online. "Early pulling" with the intent to grief is reportable. Spawning and killing hunts without telling anyone ("sniping") is perfectly fine, regardless of the reasons.

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No.
If I intentionally put the effort in to spawn an S-Rank then that is MINE to kill. But clearly people like you just hang around waiting to leech off of my efforts and that of others and jump straight in with your level 400 gear and wipe the damn thing in 20 seconds. That IS a problem that is actually happening right now.
And there is NO reason any Hunt report is going to be taken on board by these worthless GMs. Even IF you could provide proof that a group of players were deliberately trying to prevent people from getting Cracked Clusters or Seals as Darian suggested as an actual example, it isn't going to be chased. Hell, SE don't even take RMT or world-clipping Bots seriously.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I don’t see a problem with the current system.
If you want it before these strangers get it, go spawn it.

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Bit hard to do when the worst offenders of hogging the S-Ranks have their focus solely on that and nothing else and are in each area the second the spawn windows are open again.
Even IF you are the one that actually triggers the spawn, they are already all over the S-Rank and have killed it before you even know where it actually spawned.

Fortunately, we have a pretty healthy hunt community here atm. Occasionally we get that 1 player, or small group, that doesn't seem to like being team players and sharing but they usually either get with the program or find they are pretty much alone. If I pop an S rank, I always share calls with my other shells, same way with the A rank train. in this way, our community will be able to thrive and all of us benefit.

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Originally Posted by Tsidas

No.
If I intentionally put the effort in to spawn an S-Rank then that is MINE to kill. But clearly people like you just hang around waiting to leech off of my efforts and that of others and jump straight in with your level 400 gear and wipe the damn thing in 20 seconds. That IS a problem that is actually happening right now.
And there is NO reason any Hunt report is going to be taken on board by these worthless GMs. Even IF you could provide proof that a group of players were deliberately trying to prevent people from getting Cracked Clusters or Seals as Darian suggested as an actual example, it isn't going to be chased. Hell, SE don't even take RMT or world-clipping Bots seriously.

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At any given time there can be X-number of players trying to spawn the same S rank as yourself so stating that YOU spawned it and it is yours is a moot point. On our server most of us share callouts to be a team player but it's not required.

I suggest a function that shows more details on "Slay # Unique X Rank" Achievements, if people knew what S Ranks are missing and what they've already slain, I think they'd feel a lot less grief on missing out on an S Rank if they know they've taken it out already. But that only assumes they only care about those specific achievements and not the ones that require you to slay a lot of S Ranks.

As for hunts as a whole themselves, I have personally decided that they are so broken that they simply aren't worth doing at all, I've decided to pretend hunts and their achievements don't exist at all, I've left all of my hunting linkshells and since then my gameplay experience and mental state has greatly improved instead of dealing with the grief, frustration and anger. It's not a good solution, but it's the only one until the entire system is overhauled.

My solution would be whoever spawns the hunt (and their party) gets exclusive right to pull for, say, 10 minutes. Once it's pulled, it's a free for all. For hunts that don't require a player to spawn it, just give it a flat 10 minute timer after it spawns before it can be pulled. If you're late, too bad.

I think they should either make them hidden FATEs like Odin or rather then having the S rank spawn immediately after its conditions are met, instead just have footprints show up at the spot where it's due to appear (Similar to the old Diadem NMs), then make it actually show up a few minutes later.

With the new cross-realm thing hunting S-ranks is even more toxic than before, it's not unusual for S ranks to get killed before they are announced in the local linkshells and "reporting early" seem to even be looked down upon.

Wish there was some sort of automatic announcement in the area when one spawns and maybe a 5 minute timer before it was killable, you shouldn't have to rely on cheating tools (XIV hunt) and/or external discord channels to reliably do hunts.

SE created this mess by requiring 5k kills between As and Ss to get a mount. I don't know of any other raid or activity in game with that ridiculous requirement. Can you imagine 5 k dungeon raids or 5k gold saucer events just to get a special mount??? Add to that the fact that if you'd have to wait for many hours until a dungeon or any saucer event spawns to get a shot. I have been at this for over a year now and and no where near the S rank requirement. World visits are adding even more problems to the mix.