MSQ teleports - A simple band-aid for discouragement of new players in ARR

Many of us know potential new players who are discouraged by the time sink of A Realm Reborn (@Square-Enix - these people are lost money!).

Presumably we can assume computing requirements will be raised on the onset of 5.0.

So for the whole of 2.0-2.55, we can preload multiple ARR areas.

When the player is done interacting with one NPC while doing the 2.0-2.55 main scenario quests, prompt them to teleport directly to the next point they need to go to at no charge. If this "point" is an area with an animal to be killed, nerf the animal and reduce the number of killings to 1.

Should the player decline any MSQ teleport, keep the ARR-MSQ teleport available by clicking the MSQ indicator that now ordinarily shows up in the top left of the screen.

When 5.0 is released, perhaps both A Realm Reborn and Heavensward should be expedited in some manner.

It's already not easy to watch new FC members plod through 400 quests to get to Stormblood, and I'm already noticing we are getting more "transfers" from people who are already 70 than true new adventurers.

Answer from SE : "Buy a jump potion. xoxo"

As a new player who recently slogged through that mess (and did it again on a alt with the wife) - they have so many unnecessary steps in some of these quests that could of been condensed. Anything to help the people behind me I have no issues with... nobody should have to go through that because they're late to the party. (FFS, I still have to finish Stormblood's MQ)

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Originally Posted by Genz

Answer from SE : "Buy a jump potion. xoxo"

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Squeenix really should just take a note and offer a boost upon buying the game like WoW does, toss them in a little tutorial and put them 5-10 levels below cap

But that would take away from mogstation sales, lawd knows we gotta sell them boost and them 12 dollar single emotes.

Maybe give people the option upon start up of doing the MSQ from the start or skipping it.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

prompt them to teleport directly to the next point they need to go to at no charge.

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I'm.. not a fan of this. I've leveled up a few alts (not to 60, but at least to 30) and the biggest annoyance was bots instakilling the mobs I needed. Letting them teleport even more, for free, would certainly boost that annoyance.

I agree with condensing quests and rewarding exp to keep the leveling smooth, maybe even altogether removing a bunch of quests to have a side-story about them. Getting to heavensward didn't feel like an accomplishment, it felt like a FINALLY!

Here we go again. Did this really need a whole new thread??

Maybe not every single quest step, but for ones halfway around the world or in the corners of Coerthas? I wouldn't mind. That run back and forth in Coerthas was annoying, plus every time you have to go to the Waking Sands it's just irritating. A lot of modern quests do it too, and it's a welcome surprise whenever it pops up.

Didn't the devs say something about reorganizing ARR quests during fanfest? I could have sworn there was something about that.

Either way, just teleporting players to the next step in the MSQ seems possible now. A lot of duties in SB automatically dump you right in front of the NPC that finishes the quest, regardless of where you were when the duty began.

I'd be fine with some of those trips back to the Waking Sands just becoming cutscenes. Especially the ones that just have you turn around and go right back where you came from anyway. I can literally run from Horizon to Vesper Bay with my eyes closed.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I'd be fine with some of those trips back to the Waking Sands just becoming cutscenes. Especially the ones that just have you turn around and go right back where you came from anyway. I can literally run from Horizon to Vesper Bay with my eyes closed.

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Seriously, just install a mini-aetheryte in the Waking Sands. Their cheap and already part of the lore. My house has one, why not this organization that slays freakin' GODS?
http://en.ff14housing.com/images/pic...d3360_img1.jpg

I think there was some lore reason why there is no aetheryte at the Waking Sands, otherwise yes it would of just been easy to add one but that's not the case. Besides adding an aetheryte doesn't make the fetch and return quests any more fun, there needs to be some better changes to them to solve the issue.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Seriously, just install a mini-aetheryte in the Waking Sands. Their cheap and already part of the lore. My house has one, why not this organization that slays freakin' GODS?
http://en.ff14housing.com/images/pic...d3360_img1.jpg

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Its in the lore why there arent aetherytes set in place there. Teledji Adeledji even placed a Statue of himself where a normal aetheryte would be.

And side note: If you take the boat from LL you arrive right at Vespar Bay.

Or they could just offer a skip over the quest between ultimate weapon (Final 2.0 quest) and HW because it felt those to be the most useless quest that you spend so much time running around for.

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Originally Posted by Aomine1992

Or they could just offer a skip over the quest between ultimate weapon (Final 2.0 quest) and HW because it felt those to be the most useless quest that you spend so much time running around for.

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They do, it can be found in the mog station :)

A lot of this is a people issue. If people weren't so hopelessly obsessed with the latest patch all the time, new players would have stuff to do before Stormblood. But it is apparently the fate of all MMOs to suffer from dead content. Even if they make efforts to the contrary, players keep causing the dead content issue anew.

If new players could dive into legitimate raiding at Lv. 50, it would be a lot easier to bear the grind.

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Originally Posted by Dhaid

I'm.. not a fan of this. I've leveled up a few alts (not to 60, but at least to 30) and the biggest annoyance was bots instakilling the mobs I needed. Letting them teleport even more, for free, would certainly boost that annoyance.

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Bots location hack. This recommendation does nothing to aid bots, since they location hack independent of aetheryte locations anyway, but it does potentially help actual players who are playing by the rules.

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Originally Posted by bass9020

Its in the lore why there arent aetherytes set in place there. Teledji Adeledji even placed a Statue of himself where a normal aetheryte would be.

And side note: If you take the boat from LL you arrive right at Vespar Bay.

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No there is not lore as to why there aren't any mini-aetherytes in the Waking Sands. Yes, they talk about why the Syndicate hasn't placed a big one in Vesper Bay, but they don't need a big one in Vesper Bay. The mini-aetheryte can be gotten cheap on the Marketboard.

And more to the point, do they really need alienate new players with the frustrating lack of fast travel back into the MSQ quest hub?

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Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

A lot of this is a people issue. If people weren't so hopelessly obsessed with the latest patch all the time, new players would have stuff to do before Stormblood. But it is apparently the fate of all MMOs to suffer from dead content. Even if they make efforts to the contrary, players keep causing the dead content issue anew.

If new players could dive into legitimate raiding at Lv. 50, it would be a lot easier to bear the grind.

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In all the years I played Runescape, I never felt like the game suffered from dead content, because they was so much to do at all times.

ARR is the worst grind as I have eight chars which only two have MSQ done up to the current point due to using skip potion because I want to do Eureka before it became dead content.

After Ultima fight you get a fantasia so it's a nice reward but after Ultima the grind to get HW access is long and just downright bad. Skipping cs due to already watching it before doesn't help make it go faster. Most pointed out with all the running around just to talk to a single npc for a very short one bubble dialogue really needs to be cut out.

Perhaps the player base needs to revisit the ARR MSQ and come up with a proposal for what specific changes should be made to smooth it out. XP rewards can always be adjusted to keep the player on pace to hit level 50 at the required point in the MSQ without having to resort to side content.

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Originally Posted by Aomine1992

Or they could just offer a skip over the quest between ultimate weapon (Final 2.0 quest) and HW because it felt those to be the most useless quest that you spend so much time running around for.

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Most of 2.1 - 2.3, certainly. But definitely not 2.4 and 2.5, that's where the story started getting good and it's relevant to HW MSQ (including 3.5). I'd love to remove the unnecessary Tataru quests out of the MSQ (keep them as side quests for players who still want to enjoy them).

ARR yes, As for HW and SB, no those should not be condensed. However the alternative is jump potions which was already introduced.

I am looking most forward to new game plus. As I am too lazy to create a new player and see 2.0 fetch quests again for myself.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

So for the whole of 2.0-2.55, we can preload multiple ARR areas.

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What? That's not how it works at all. It has to load the entire zone, props, players, npc's, monsters, for the spot teleported to. If you don't like the load time, invest in a SSD, the load time then becomes about 2-5 seconds, even on laptops with weaker cpu/gpu's.

It's been said before, if you don't like the MSQ, there's the jump potion. Why ruin other players enjoyment of the MSQ? The people complaining about having story content in a game series known for it's storylines shouldn't get to destroy it for others just so they can get to whatever aspect of the game they will no doubt complain is boring, having skipped all the content in the game.

There's very little that needs to be condensed and the only half-measure that would feel appropriate is "I've already played ARR/HW/SB to completion on another world in this data center/other data center, just mark all the MSQ quests done and forgo the experience, I will reset the MSQ when I want to play it." and have the game track this at the service account level. Unlike the Skip potion, no leveling is done, no money is given, here's your starter weapon, the story is out of the way. To prevent bots from being able to abuse it, simply require that any character that skips the MSQ, still has to do the 8-player trial gating the content (eg Steps of Faith, Final Steps of Faith) otherwise their level will be remain capped, and teleports will still have to do the quests, so to unlock flying and swimming, the MSQ quests will be marked done, but the side-quests that are part of unlocking it will not. If the player later chooses to do the MSQ, the quests will be "unmarked" including those that contribute to unlocking dungeons, flying and swimming.

The jump pot is simply "completion with experience and leveling already done". Cash shop cash grab, but hey players asked for it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Perhaps the player base needs to revisit the ARR MSQ and come up with a proposal for what specific changes should be made to smooth it out. XP rewards can always be adjusted to keep the player on pace to hit level 50 at the required point in the MSQ without having to resort to side content.

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Easy, smaller skip steps, but you forgo the Roulette/duty finder. eg Every player, probably gets bored to tears of the 1-15 story bits, and really, a "Have you played FFXIV before starting in <starting city>?", select yes. "Would you like to mark all 1-15 quests done in the storyline (no experience will be given). So it would pick up right outside Sastasha. At that point, you can "opt out of all further ARR 2.00 storyline", which will mark the quests done, and the MSQ dungeons will be unlocked up to Praetorium. You still have to do the Praetorium to get the "ending clear", but you can level to 50 unimpeded. After that's clear (eg skipping the credits) you get "Would you like to skip straight to HW (Patch 3.0)?" and if you select yes, it will mark everything done except Steps of Faith. Clear it, and you're at the beginning of HW.

Basically, you have
Skip 1-15 2.00
Skip 15-50 2.00
Skip 2.xx
Skip 3.00
Skip 3.xx
Skip 4.00 (after 5.0 comes out)
Skip 4.xx (after 5.0 comes out)

Most players who are intending to level an alt, will just play the MSQ because it's faster to level solo that way. If they have 7 friends that they want to play together instead, then they can just straight level to 1-70 by themselves by any measure they want. But as I've said already, don't ruin the game for everyone else by trying to strip the content to make it shorter just because you're impatient or think it's boring. One player may love all the lore, another just skips all the dialog anyway and thus their leveling experience through MSQ isn't that much slower than marking it all done in the first place.

The MSQ doles out the EXP necessary to not have to do any grinding (eg you "play" less of the game if you do the MSQ as intended, and don't have to repeat any dungeon twice.) If you opt out of the MSQ, you opt out of the experience points as well. See jump pot for the alternative.

I'm in full on agreement with the opening post.

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Originally Posted by Edax

No there is not lore as to why there aren't any mini-aetherytes in the Waking Sands. Yes, they talk about why the Syndicate hasn't placed a big one in Vesper Bay, but they don't need a big one in Vesper Bay. The mini-aetheryte can be gotten cheap on the Marketboard.

And more to the point, do they really need alienate new players with the frustrating lack of fast travel back into the MSQ quest hub?

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Waking Sands is part of Vesper Bay so yes it still counts as lore reasoning. And no I see no issue with players either traveling on foot to Waking Sands or as I said taking the ferry from Limsa. You and many others are so worried about new players for what reason? Its a game, a RPG. Traveling is a big part of that especially early on. But be my guest keep spouting about new players this and new players that.

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Originally Posted by bass9020

Its in the lore why there arent aetherytes set in place there. Teledji Adeledji even placed a Statue of himself where a normal aetheryte would be.

And side note: If you take the boat from LL you arrive right at Vespar Bay.

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It wasn't Teledji that did that but Lolorito - look at the statue closely, there is no mistaking the turban/mask. But yeah, that's the lore reason why there is no aetheryte at Vesper Bay (not that there was ever one there even in 1.0) - it was a deliberate snub against the Scions because Minfilia refused to take bribes from Lolorito and the Syndicate, this is why they packed up and moved to Revenant's Toll (away from the Syndicate's influence), so instead Lolorito had that ostenatious statue of himself erected there, effectively placing his own ego over the good of the realm. This was explained back in 2.1's story.

I make a point of throwing rotten eggs at that statue every time I pass through Vesper Bay accordingly (in emote ;)).

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Many of us know potential new players who are discouraged by the time sink of A Realm Reborn (@Square-Enix - these people are lost money!)

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If you view experiencing the story of an RPG and the gradual buildup of your character as an uninteresting "time sink", these kinds of games are probably not the right kind of game for you in the first place.

If you still wanna do it anyway, there are jump potions.

With that and the fact you can skip the vast majority of cutscenes anyway (something which is taken for granted nowadays even though that was not always the case in video games), I don't think any more concessions need to be provided to the Instant Gratification crowd.

Vesper Bay absolutely does need an aetheryte, though. I don't care if there's "lore" reasons behind it, and neither does most everyone else. Maybe in 10 or so years it will get one, like Selbina did with the nomad moogle. That seems to be how SE operates, anyway.

Then how about Waking Sands tickets? They can function like GC tickets. Wouldn't have to retcon any lore and the pro-lore people don't feel like anyone's stepping on their toes.

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Then how about Waking Sands tickets? They can function like GC tickets. Wouldn't have to retcon any lore and the pro-lore people don't feel like anyone's stepping on their toes.

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I'd find this acceptable. They could even make the MSQ give you some, likely particularly at the moments where you'd be expected to use one.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I'd find this acceptable. They could even make the MSQ give you some, likely particularly at the moments where you'd be expected to use one.

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I fully approve this. Problem solved, now let's close this thread and get back to important things like filtering out all the BLU threads ;)

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

It wasn't Teledji that did that but Lolorito - look at the statue closely, there is no mistaking the turban/mask. But yeah, that's the lore reason why there is no aetheryte at Vesper Bay (not that there was ever one there even in 1.0) - it was a deliberate snub against the Scions because Minfilia refused to take bribes from Lolorito and the Syndicate, this is why they packed up and moved to Revenant's Toll (away from the Syndicate's influence), so instead Lolorito had that ostenatious statue of himself erected there, effectively placing his own ego over the good of the realm. This was explained back in 2.1's story.

I make a point of throwing rotten eggs at that statue every time I pass through Vesper Bay accordingly (in emote ;)).

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Thank you for correcting me, and explaining it with more detail! :)

I really don't get the mindset of buying a game then wanting to skip everything... if you're new to the game then wouldn't all of the content be "new" to you?

I can maybe understand if you're playing an alt but with how this game is structured to have everything on one character, I'd consider that a non-priority and would point people to the story skip potions.

If people are joining to play with their friends, there are still things you can do together while going through the story (queuing together for duties, showing them locations of any quests/areas that confuse them, ferrying).

I don't know about other people, but I enjoy seeing my friends get to experience content for their first time. Also think people are over reacting to how long it takes to get through the content, ARR is maybe 3-4 weeks top if you watch all the cutscenes, HW and SB are about 2 weeks a piece. This is with logging in for 1-2 hours a day. There is so much more to this game than just end game raiding, why would you want to deprive your friends of the same Journey to get there that you went through?

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Originally Posted by Gralna

I really don't get the mindset of buying a game then wanting to skip everything... if you're new to the game then wouldn't all of the content be "new" to you?

I can maybe understand if you're playing an alt but with how this game is structured to have everything on one character, I'd consider that a non-priority and would point people to the story skip potions.

If people are joining to play with their friends, there are still things you can do together while going through the story (queuing together for duties, showing them locations of any quests/areas that confuse them, ferrying).

I don't know about other people, but I enjoy seeing my friends get to experience content for their first time. Also think people are over reacting to how long it takes to get through the content, ARR is maybe 3-4 weeks top if you watch all the cutscenes, HW and SB are about 2 weeks a piece. This is with logging in for 1-2 hours a day. There is so much more to this game than just end game raiding, why would you want to deprive your friends of the same Journey to get there that you went through?

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It's the same mindset that would have anyone watching a popular anime would have when they skip the bad filler season. Yeah, it makes no sense to just skip every episode of a show and just watch the last one, but there is sense in excising the parts of a series that are utter time wasters.

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Originally Posted by bass9020

Waking Sands is part of Vesper Bay so yes it still counts as lore reasoning. And no I see no issue with players either traveling on foot to Waking Sands or as I said taking the ferry from Limsa. You and many others are so worried about new players for what reason? Its a game, a RPG. Traveling is a big part of that especially early on. But be my guest keep spouting about new players this and new players that.

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So what if Waking Sands is a part of Vesper Bay? If Waking Sands got a mini-aethernet, that means the Waking Sands got a mini-aethernet, and not Vesper Bay. It's not like you only have to do one or two quests out Waking Sands, you would end up taking that ferry very many, many times. The plot of FFXIV isn't "Ride the Ferry 50 times" nor is its appeal. It's a needless complication to the MSQ. The very thing that needs streamlining because the AAR MSQ quests sure as heck aren't compelling on their own to justify the "travel".

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Originally Posted by Edax

So what if Waking Sands is a part of Vesper Bay? If Waking Sands got a mini-aethernet, that means the Waking Sands got a mini-aethernet, and not Vesper Bay. It's not like you only have to do one or two quests out Waking Sands, you would end up taking that very many, many times. The plot of FFXIV isn't "Ride the Ferry 50 times" nor is its appeal. It's a needless complication to the MSQ. The very thing that needs streamlining because the AAR MSQ quests sure as heck aren't compelling on their own to justify the "travel".

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You clearly do not get it and I will not try and convince you any longer, goodbye!

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Originally Posted by bass9020

You clearly do not get it and I will not try and convince you any longer, goodbye!

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You clearly do not get it and I will not try and convince you any longer either.

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Originally Posted by Edax

It's the same mindset that would have anyone watching a popular anime would have when they skip the bad filler season. Yeah, it makes no sense to just skip every episode of a show and just watch the last one, but there is sense in excising the parts of a series that are utter time wasters.

So what if Waking Sands is a part of Vesper Bay? If Waking Sands got a mini-aethernet, that means the Waking Sands got a mini-aethernet, and not Vesper Bay. It's not like you only have to do one or two quests out Waking Sands, you would end up taking that very many, many times. The plot of FFXIV isn't "Ride the Ferry 50 times" nor is its appeal. It's a needless complication to the MSQ. The very thing that needs streamlining because the AAR MSQ quests sure as heck aren't compelling on their own to justify the "travel".

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QFT

People defending the MSQ on the grounds of lore/"story-immersion", conveniently ignore things like, a new player who's not even completed ARR MSQ can teleport into Shirogane or that with a 2 person mount, we can fly our friends to SB aetherytes they're not supposed to be at yet, MSQ-wise. SE is selective about FFXIV's lore and story immersion, yet some of FFXIV's players are rigid.

They already do the teleportation thing in the MSQ of SB, and it usually happens while you're at a cutscene. I don't see how it's a bad thing.
Now for them to do something about ARR's hundreds of pointless fetch quests...

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Originally Posted by Gralna

I really don't get the mindset of buying a game then wanting to skip everything... if you're new to the game then wouldn't all of the content be "new" to you?

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I would agree if not for the fact that SE locked every new expansion areas behind MSQ. In FF11 they did it better as you could access new expansion areas at around level 30 with a couple of fast quests.

One thing they could really add is the MSQ giving enough experience for you to break through it without interrupting.

It's fine the way it is now for SB content, but that makes little sense for ARR patch quests.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Then how about Waking Sands tickets? They can function like GC tickets. Wouldn't have to retcon any lore and the pro-lore people don't feel like anyone's stepping on their toes.

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I agree, I think this is indeed a very acceptable comprimise - limits their use but also does allow a new player to cut out a lot of the legwork the ARR MSQ requires.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Didn't the devs say something about reorganizing ARR quests during fanfest? I could have sworn there was something about that.

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Yep, and it was a similar response to a similar question asked back at the live letter around when E3 happened.

Basically - they've been exploring how to condense the required quests and trim out the non-essential stuff (and likely make it optional), but their focus right now is on the expansion. At E3 Yoshi-P even suggested they have a plan for how they want to make the changes, but it's not a small task and so may take some time before the changes are made.

Which might seem counterintuitive if you're used to how other MMOs handle their story, where non-relevant quests are off to the side and all...but given how relevant plot points and non-relevant elements are so frequently mixed in the 2.x series, I can understand this - and to make matters trickier, plot that wasn't relevant from 2.1-2.3 when HW was the expansion suddenly became relevant in Stormblood...and then there's weird connections like the 60-70 Alchemist quests relying on you having met Minfilia's adoptive mother and having developed a working relationship where she trusts you (not to mention voiced scenes in very dramatic moments in the 3.x series involving her)...and so while there's a suite of quests involving her introduction that are fluff and filler, she can't just be cut entirely without significant rewrites of several pieces of later content.

Those kinds of connections exist throughout both mandatory and optional content, so making some of it optional while rewriting some mandatory stuff to work in such a way that the narrative flow isn't completely broken by the changes means taking the time to do it right.

Obviously some stuff can be changed much more easily, the way they removed the requirement to complete two specific guildhests as part of the 2.x series (which wasn't problematic in and of itself...except that you had to do them in order to unlock, and they were like 8 and 9 in the list) and just made you fight a few monsters in the area as a symbolic "we need these issues taken care of and we'd like you to show the newbie adventurers how it's done" (the new adventurers now being NPCs, whereas before they were actual players via guildhests). More self-contained content like that takes significantly less work to change without messing up other things...but it's also not the majority of content in the 2.x series.

So while those reworks are being done...I agree with at least the teleportation element suggested by the OP, especially since they already use it to great effect in Stormblood. "Pray return to the Waking Sands" lose some of its annoying bite if you're conveniently brought to the front door of said HQ.