foreword: I love playing healer, I love dpsing while healing. With that said
It is pretty evident right now as a healer; you will hate yourself specially SCH/AST if you even dps somewhat optimally and heal you will run out of mana quite quickly ---- looking at you Astrologian.
However FFXIV design philosophy is that any composition will work for any type of "normal content" ----
What I am trying to get at and suggest is can Lucid Dreaming recast be shorten..... the fact that either Bard or Machinest is mandatory for refresh sucks because if you want to run something casually like Suzaku or what ever and I want to dps as Astrologian I am going to find myself after even 1 resurrection completely out of mana and not enjoy the content. OR refresh / something similar needs to be given to more roles (maybe monk or something) Because I quite honestly do not even want to join parties if there is no Bard or Machinest because Refresh has become almost as important as "Piercing debuff" for Bard/Dragoon synergy.... And I heard that is something the dev are looking into taking out. Because of the burden it places on Bard without a dragoon.
Dev: QOL request
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10-25-2018, 07:05 AMDoctor-Dev: QOL request
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10-25-2018, 07:17 AMKDSilver
I can somehow understand for Ast because of the extra malefic we cast now and it needs a really good use of lightspeed/lucid dreaming/Celestial opposition/hGCD heals
But for Scholar ?
You can sit at 800 piety and still have a way to recover mana quickly and heal thanks to ED/AF 45s trait/Lucid/Dissipation -
10-25-2018, 07:25 AMDoctor-
Yes even Scholar run out of MP quite fast weaving m2 if there is no bard/mch AKA the mana battery.
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10-25-2018, 07:28 AMKDSilver
That's the reason you don't weave anymore with M2 if you know you won't have refresh or regular manashift.
We're also supposed to adapt to the party we are with. -
10-25-2018, 07:31 AMErakir
Whoa whoa whoa.
Aside from MP Economy being one of the only strengths WHM has left to it (please, we don't need any more nails in this coffin than we currently have) no one is struggling that bad with MP. Refresh is powerful since it virtually eliminates ANY concerns at all in regards to MP, which has largely negated that strength WHM has.
I'm one of those players in a static without a BRD/MCH and I feel it, and I see how much our AST feels it (and how our SCH felt it back on Neo). Our monk feels it too (mains AST in another group without refresh). But the content still dies. AST does have to work more with their MP in the absence of a refresh, I admit that, sure. Needs to use their MP conservation/recovery tools more efficiently to keep going than the other two. It completely sucks to die as AST with Lucid still a long ways on CD, too. Sucks bad. If casters are available to mana shift, it really helps if they do sometime in the fight. I know most don't, especially BLMs with how it flubs their DPS rotation, but worth asking 'em (also this has been taught by being used to refresh doing the work for them). Your MP is more important at the end of the day.
A single raise in Suzaku really shouldn't be leaving you dry regardless of job. I'd have to ask what else is going on in these fights to suck your MP, cause it's not just malefic. Tons of unnecessary damage requiring more hardcasted heals/aspected benefics/aspected helioses maybe? Yea, that'd add up, as can compensating for other healers. And I know that happens in PF groups doing Suzaku; extremes are sorta designed to be able to be power healed through to an extent moreso than Savage.
Believe me, I'm no fan of refresh as the game stands, but I don't see SCH/AST being borderline unplayable without it as things stand with this much ilvl and this much available piety. I'd love for things to shift around in regards to refresh and alternatives. Mana shift was a step in the right direction but it's been a small step with some issues too.
And yes, a scholar SHOULD run out of MP fast weaving M2 without a mana battery. It's a freaking holy replacement. That's part of why their damage has gotten as high as it is; because refresh helps enable that, which is honestly ridiculous. -
10-25-2018, 08:10 AMRisvertasashiIt's not, though. Skilled ASTs haven't been having mana issues since the 4.3 buff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erakir
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10-25-2018, 08:41 AMGhishlainI'm in agreement with this sentiment too. Having no Refresh would necessitate a change in playstyle, but shouldn't lead to any wipes in a group with mechanics being dealt with properly unless your groups ilvl is so low that healers need to be spamming those heals to keep up with mechanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erakir
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10-25-2018, 08:58 AMErakirSure. Skilled ones. Especially with Refresh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
WHM MP economy is still superior I'd say. Don't need to really optimize thin air timings at all and can keep trucking along. Without refresh.
That nothing exists that taxes anyone's MP enough for this to be relevant is another thing. It's a strength, albeit overstated I feel and not exactly a useful strength at the moment in savage. Cause as you say - skilled ASTs aren't having any real problems, and neither are SCHs. Believe me I'm aware it's not exactly helping WHMs get groups.
If we had something to dump excess WHM MP into, say, damage? That'd be nifty. But alas. That'd make sense.
This is pretty much how things have gone with our group. We work around it, and it works. That monk actually melds piety on his AST (the horror!) in his group to help out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghishlain
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10-25-2018, 11:11 AMGhishlainThe horror! =pQuote:
Originally Posted by Erakir
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10-25-2018, 12:40 PMRongwayThese aren't QOL requests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor-
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10-25-2018, 02:41 PMSeraphor
So the Ewer will become completely redundant then?
Why hang onto it or try to draw it when MP management is alreaady foolproof? -
10-25-2018, 04:27 PMGrimoire-M
To be honest I wouldn't mind if healers and casters got more personal mana management cooldowns in exchange for Refresh and Mana Shift being combined into the MP equivalent of Goad and given to all of the caster DPS and ranged DPS. Remove Tactician and do the same with Goad, give it to the Ranged DPS. Same goes for the melee DPS and MCH needing more TP for AoE.
Every dps should be able to contribute to resource management in a pinch, mainly as recovery if someone dies. Ranged DPS are better because they can support TP and MP at once as is their niche, but don't completely negate the need for it at all by existing. -
11-01-2018, 12:18 AMSylvain
Well I've been an advocate of buffing cleric stance to also reduce the mp cost of offensive spells.
The 5% is laughable and while I use it whenever it's up, a 1% healer dps increase over an entire fight really makes it a poor skill.
At least with a mp reduction it would turn it into another mana management tool and make dungeon more fun ^^ -
11-01-2018, 01:15 AMtechnole
Considering two healers can actually have about a combined output of 9000 dps this savage tier, it's almost crazy talk about MP management being an issue.
As they made DPSing almost too simple, so of course MP usage is up, but also it's being smart about management. -
11-01-2018, 04:27 PMMansion
Well, I'm fine with AST mana right now as it is... Basically I ALWAYS align Lucid and Celestial opposition, sometimes I will use Lightspeed extended too.
AST has so many tools to make mana economy (Synastry, Earthly Star, Dignity, Buff extension on regens...) and in extreme cases of raising you have that RNG Ewer that can pop and save you. And then yeah sometimes you have Refresh or Mana Shift (or someone else raising).
AST is fine as it is I think. The latest QoL changes were more than welcome, and there is nothing that comes to my mind that could do with some minor fixes. :)
(apart from making the spear OP by raising the Crit stat and not chances of Crit, but I'll never see it haha)