HDR Support on PS4?

Has there been any discussion from the devs on adding HDR support for this game? Maybe in 5.0?

nope, and not likely to happen.

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Originally Posted by Faeon

nope, and not likely to happen.

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Why not? I think FFXIV could benefit greatly from HDR.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Why not? I think FFXIV could benefit greatly from HDR.

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Given Yoshida’s answer when the latest graphic cards were brought up he feels that the game doesn’t need any kind of graphical update to be competitive. I think more graphical options and graphical updates especially to the textures would be great but alas Yoshida is stuck in his ways.

ESO had done a fairly good job i think of implementing HDR support (it really is noticeable) but it simply is not a priority for FFXIV. We can all enjoy the jagged textures on clothing for years to come

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Has there been any discussion from the devs on adding HDR support for this game? Maybe in 5.0?

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No discussion that I've heard of, and I'd say it's not likely to happen yet.

Honestly, this is one instance in which I agree with with the outcome, too. HDR requires a fair amount of effort, since a proper implementation involves reworking the entire rendering pipeline (textures, lighting, shaders, etc.). Despite this fair amount of effort, it's only beneficial for the small subset of players who have access to an HDR screen. In 3-4 years this will be more common, but it's not now, and won't be by the time 5.0 releases.

There's also the fact that there are far more pressing graphical issues that SE should address first, that every player can enjoy the benefits of right now. The most significant is their atrociously low-resolution textures, but there is also the nonexistent physics system that causes rampant clipping, and - while probably not entirely a graphical issue - the relatively limited number of objects that the engine can display on-screen at any given point in time. I'd much rather SE address these issues before moving on to something exotic like HDR. We could make an argument that ray-tracing would be great, too, but it'd be kind of dumb to implement it right now given the relative scarcity of RTX owners right now.

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Originally Posted by Maero

ESO had done a fairly good job i think of implementing HDR support (it really is noticeable) but it simply is not a priority for FFXIV. We can all enjoy the jagged textures on clothing for years to come

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In fairness, jagged textures on clothing have nothing to do with HDR, and wouldn't be fixed by HDR.

they would literally have to redraw everything - something that would probably only happen with maaaaaaayyyyyyybe an expansion or pretty much just an entirely new game. i wouldn't count on it happening like pretty much ever imo.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

they would literally have to redraw everything - something that would probably only happen with maaaaaaayyyyyyybe an expansion or pretty much just an entirely new game. i wouldn't count on it happening like pretty much ever imo.

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This is sadly the mentality at hand. The excuse is the workload of a problem that shouldn't have existed in the first place. To quote Yoshida:
"Since FFXIV had PS3 support, its graphics technology is 2 generations behind. If we had high poly models/hi-res textures ((unclear)) then we could just swap them out, but we don't. A lot of things were created low poly/low-res from the start for cost-saving, so we would have to recreate all of them in order for the improved graphics to look good."

While I can understand the issue with low-poly models to an extent, let's not ignore the fact that 1.0 variations of armors were properly detailed on top of being fitted for all races, the fact that the textures are done at Low-Res by default is appalling. One would think they would have made their source files hi-res by default and scaled them down to adjust for hardware but it seems no matter what you run the highest you'll get in texture quality is already low-res leading to those ugly pixel staircases they love to show off during the GLA/PLD questline and Hien's outfit, which they also sold. It would have been more understandable for the reboot textures if they eventually went back and slowly updated them but we're 5 years into this game and the philosophy is kept the same, something that has obviously been bled into everything this game has to offer given how nothing has really been shaken up or properly built upon in the 5 years this reboot has been out.

As for the overall answer of when or if its been discussed here is another from Yoshida:
"I get asked this a lot lately. The other day it was in China, so I guess it might be a worldwide topic of interest. If you're asking me if there's a possibility in the future, then the answer is probably yes, there is. But if you're asking if we have it planned right now, the answer is no. We don't have anything planned and it's not in any of our milestones."

We're going into 5.0, a recent interview has already shown he hasn't even considered how he'll shake up the content formula come 5.0 and with the slowly increasing burn out rate that Eureka has sped up due to the lack of Relic Progression Options(ie Isolated In Eureka) you really need to wonder what the next expansion is going to offer to justify paying for what is essentially a massive patch. No plans for graphical updates, no plans for new formulas and an insistence to stick to the safe and true is what will end up killing this game if not addressed.

Source of Quotes: https://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1139698.html
Translation: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._and_soken_at/

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Has there been any discussion from the devs on adding HDR support for this game? Maybe in 5.0?

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Not that I know of, last time people asked for 4K, that hasn't been answered really either. Keep in mind that Textures != Resolution, and that is a mistake that just about everyone who has never bought a dedicated video card has made, because people go "oh bigger textures means I need a card with more memory", hence people getting bamboozled into buying 4GB underpowered cards, when a card with half the memory but 4x the bandwidth would still be twice as good.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

they would literally have to redraw everything - something that would probably only happen with maaaaaaayyyyyyybe an expansion or pretty much just an entirely new game. i wouldn't count on it happening like pretty much ever imo.

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Not really. 4K doesn't require higher resolution textures, it requires greater depth of field for backgrounds (which is the primary thing noticed in 4K-enabled games) and in order for any foreground objects to benefit from 4K, the models themselves need to be designed for 4K, right now every close-up shot of your character in 4K, you can see the polygon edges because the smoothing has an upper-limit.

HDR is a different lighting technique (so is Ray Tracing/Radiosity) that allows for the same image to contain detail that isn't lost when the screen brightness changes. In most games right now, you can over-brighten the screen and all the dark colors become a muddy color, or you can turn the game's brightness down and all the bright colors become a dull white. HDR in theory removes this min-max of brightness levels and tells the screen that "this pixel is always bright" and "this pixel is always black". HDR has been available since DX9 games like Halflife 2, it's just now done in hardware, and computer screens have not caught up to it yet, you can only find this feature in photography monitors and home theater televisions which is how the PS4 Pro would take advantage of it.

That's the gist of it anyway. It would require changing the ambient lighting throughout the game, and that is likely the minimum we would get without re-tuning all the explosions.

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Originally Posted by Noodle_Trinidad

As for the overall answer of when or if its been discussed here is another from Yoshida:
"I get asked this a lot lately. The other day it was in China, so I guess it might be a worldwide topic of interest. If you're asking me if there's a possibility in the future, then the answer is probably yes, there is. But if you're asking if we have it planned right now, the answer is no. We don't have anything planned and it's not in any of our milestones."

We're going into 5.0, a recent interview has already shown he hasn't even considered how he'll shake up the content formula come 5.0 and with the slowly increasing burn out rate that Eureka has sped up due to the lack of Relic Progression Options(ie Isolated In Eureka) you really need to wonder what the next expansion is going to offer to justify paying for what is essentially a massive patch. No plans for graphical updates, no plans for new formulas and an insistence to stick to the safe and true is what will end up killing this game if not addressed.

Source of Quotes: https://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1139698.html
Translation: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._and_soken_at/

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To be honest, if they would give the game the upgrades it needs to its engine and give the game proper server infrastructure so they can stop using server limitations as an excuse I'd forgive a good many of their failings recently. Yes, it would take a lot of time and effort, but the payoff would be worth it for everyone involved. But there's probably a better chance of getting struck by lightning 3 times and winning the lottery in the same day. Every time they've tried to change up the formula in any way it's like they don't know their player base at all and it comes out either half baked (Eureka) though "half baked" is actually pretty generous...or it's simply dead on release like LoV or Diadem.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Not that I know of, last time people asked for 4K, that hasn't been answered really either. Keep in mind that Textures != Resolution, and that is a mistake that just about everyone who has never bought a dedicated video card has made, because people go "oh bigger textures means I need a card with more memory", hence people getting bamboozled into buying 4GB underpowered cards, when a card with half the memory but 4x the bandwidth would still be twice as good.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Not really. 4K doesn't require higher resolution textures, it requires greater depth of field for backgrounds (which is the primary thing noticed in 4K-enabled games) and in order for any foreground objects to benefit from 4K, the models themselves need to be designed for 4K, right now every close-up shot of your character in 4K, you can see the polygon edges because the smoothing has an upper-limit.

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I'm not sure why we've shifted from discussing HDR, but I want to point a couple of things out here, because your post is a bit deceptive.

Firstly, referring generically to "4K" really doesn't mean much. If you're talking about resolution, then XIV is already 4K capable - native on a PC, and upscaled on the PS4 Pro. People aren't asking for it, because it's already here. And for rendering in higher resolutions, you're right about a GPU's speed being more important than its memory.

However, this isn't what most people refer to when they ask for 4K. The resolution in and of itself is basically just a resource-intensive, high-quality anti-alias if it isn't also paired with 4K assets, primarily textures. I can run Half-life 2 at 4K, but it doesn't look all that improved until I install UHD texture mods. So while textures != resolution, they are absolutely related, and having one without the other is largely useless.

As to your comment about GPUs, I really can't understand that. There really aren't cards with 4x the speed and half the memory. They virtually always scale with each other. You won't find 8GB of memory on a 980 Ti for example.

Finally, your comment about the model polygon edges also makes little sense. Higher resolutions never, ever result in 'more' polygon edges being visible than in lower resolutions, and this visibility has nothing to do with some claimed upper-limit on smoothing. However, it is worth noting that polygon counts do not upscale with resolution. As with textures, polygon counts designed primarily around standard HD resolutions will look less impressive in 4K when compared to models designed with 4K in mind. So there is that.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

To be honest, if they would give the game the upgrades it needs to its engine and give the game proper server infrastructure so they can stop using server limitations as an excuse I'd forgive a good many of their failings recently. Yes, it would take a lot of time and effort, but the payoff would be worth it for everyone involved. But there's probably a better chance of getting struck by lightning 3 times and winning the lottery in the same day. Every time they've tried to change up the formula in any way it's like they don't know their player base at all and it comes out either half baked (Eureka) though "half baked" is actually pretty generous...or it's simply dead on release like LoV or Diadem.

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Wholeheartedly agree.

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Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev

I'm not sure why we've shifted from discussing HDR, but I want to point a couple of things out here, because your post is a bit deceptive.

Firstly, referring generically to "4K" really doesn't mean much. If you're talking about resolution, then XIV is already 4K capable - native on a PC, and upscaled on the PS4 Pro. People aren't asking for it, because it's already here. And for rendering in higher resolutions, you're right about a GPU's speed being more important than its memory.

However, this isn't what most people refer to when they ask for 4K. The resolution in and of itself is basically just a resource-intensive, high-quality anti-alias if it isn't also paired with 4K assets, primarily textures. I can run Half-life 2 at 4K, but it doesn't look all that improved until I install UHD texture mods. So while textures != resolution, they are absolutely related, and having one without the other is largely useless.

As to your comment about GPUs, I really can't understand that. There really aren't cards with 4x the speed and half the memory. They virtually always scale with each other. You won't find 8GB of memory on a 980 Ti for example.

Finally, your comment about the model polygon edges also makes little sense. Higher resolutions never, ever result in 'more' polygon edges being visible than in lower resolutions, and this visibility has nothing to do with some claimed upper-limit on smoothing. However, it is worth noting that polygon counts do not upscale with resolution. As with textures, polygon counts designed primarily around standard HD resolutions will look less impressive in 4K when compared to models designed with 4K in mind. So there is that.

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I made mention of the video RAM, because people think they're getting a good deal on a video card based on the video RAM size, rather than the specs. The Video RAM size doesn't matter if the video memory bandwidth is cut in the process.

People start yammering about 4K because that's the current buzzword used to sell video cards, monitors and television. People buy 4K monitors and TV's and are only now learning about HDR or rec.2020 color or DC-P3, etc. HDR is the new buzz word since 8K won't be out before there's widespread adoption of 4K. Ask yourself why not 8K?

You do not need 4K textures for 4K gameplay. You need high resolution textures (which can be 16Kx16K for all you really know) for very specific kinds of details, they will not make fur or hair look any more realistic, and pretty much all the grass and sand in the game is flat anyway. What happens at higher resolutions is the Tessellation runs out of precision, that is completely independent from the texture quality. During a cut scene, you'll see something like this:

https://i.imgur.com/WL1Lt4h.png

Those are straight lines. Not curves around the face. The hair? yes that could use a texture upgrade, but it's not magically going to look like "The Spirits Within" with a texture upgrade, even FFXV, just uses clumps of hair, even with the 4K texture pack.

But enough of that, it's buzz words for marketing. The average person plays video games on the worst screens imaginable. Why ask for HDR when most don't even play on full 8-bit or 10-bit IPS screens to enjoy what the video card is capable presently. Those p120, p144 and p240 screens are still TN monitors with 6bit color and terrible viewing angles.

http://i.imgur.com/vkPiT9r.jpg

So when people ask for HDR, they don't even know what they are asking for.

https://www.highdefdigest.com/upload...lor_Gamuts.jpg

As likely none of you are using a HDR screen, this probably won't make sense anyway.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...view-hands-on/
https://assets.rockpapershotgun.com/...comparison.jpg

Notice exactly what I said earlier. Blacks are black, and whites are white on the HDR screen. A photo is not going to be a good representation of this since, again, you're likely not using a HDR monitor.

Since we know FFXV has HDR, there is really no reason why FFXIV can not have it, but again it likely can't have it without changing every shader in the game, so the minimum that I'd expect by any kind of HDR upgrade is just changes to the ambient lighting, in which something like the Burn would would look drastically different in.

I still think the post was misleading. I think you're largely speaking in terms of hypotheticals with vRAM - again, the raw card speed and the amount of RAM onboard tend to be closely linked, and the price for just a straight-up RAM increase is typically negligible (such as with the GTX 1060 variants). Also, I never said that high-resolution textures were essential for 'true' 4K gaming, nor that they'd transform XIV into Spirits Within. You were arguing that textures weren't required for 4K gameplay, but by any reasonable definition of the phrase, they absolutely are - along with a large number of other changes. What's the point in spitting out four times as many pixels if all you're getting is a high-quality anti-alias?

A couple of other things.

Those straight lines you showed also show up on 1080p resolutions just as clearly. I tend to play on 1440p, but I lowered my resolution just to be sure. Their presence in 4K has nothing to do with the resolution, and generally it's not noticeable, because zoom levels rarely go high enough for them to be all that visible. You're absolutely right that there are tessellation limits, and these limits result in sharp edges rather than natural curves, but it's not any more or less noticeable at higher resolutions. This is clear when you think about how tessellation works: at the end of the day, it splits polygons into finer and finer pieces. Whatever the final piece is at, it's still a polygon of some sort, and a higher resolution will simply render more points along the existing straight edge. Nothing about that process makes the polygon's edges more noticeable. Out of curiosity, by the way, do you have AA turned on? I realize XIV's FXAA is a kind of crappy method, but I'm still curious.

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The HDR picture was actually quite illustrative, and worthwhile viewing as well for this thread - good comparison. I don't use an HDR monitor, but it's clear enough. I think we can certainly agree on the point that HDR is not a wise investment for SE at the present time.

Edit / Addition:

One other reason why jagged edges might be visible on 4K is that often times, 4K monitors can be quite large. The visibility of these jagged edges, while not really impacted by resolution, is quite related to PPI measurements. Someone playing on a 50" 4K TV (88.12 PPI) is quite possibly going to notice them more than someone who plays on a 21" HD screen (104.9 PPI), as an example. This is part of why I invested in decent quality 25" monitors at 1440p; I have quite decent pixel density (117.49 PPI), and I don't need to spend as much on video cards to render at 4K resolution.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Why not? I think FFXIV could benefit greatly from HDR.

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I think many reasons but some, how many players actually have gfx cards that support HDR which standard do they support since currently Dolby Vision and hdr10 are the two main ones that are in use. Also, many people do not run HDR monitors and the complexities of getting HDR to run in Windows and in the game seems to be an issue atm! there are a few games that support it as Destiny2 and ACO come to mind, there is also a slight performance hit too, plus not everyone has a 4k display either. Another issue is this game is still based off the original code which was written in DX9 and for PS3 at the time, to get the HDR effect it would require a massive amount of time rewriting most if not all of the code, and they would also need to get the game written for DX12. The cons outway the pros at this point in time, maybe in the future when things become more easy to provide it would be available.

Is there any way to add any texture packs for players using Ps4 Pro? I play on a 4k HDR TV and the game looks and runs great but it could use some better textures and whatnot.