RDM DoT idea

What if in the next expansion RDM got DoTs for Veraero and Verthunder? My idea is that you would get an ability that works like Dark Arts, and it would make both abilities apply a DoT but at the same time would weaken the ability to around 50 potency. Once you cast with the buff on the DoT is applied and Veraero/Verthunder returns to its normal potency.

I'm happy we don't have DoTs to maintain. We already have a sustainable AoE output. We don't need DoTs too, and no job needs anything like Dark Arts.

I'd only want a DoT on RDM if it generated mana during each tick. And that's because it would work as a mana generator that isn't instant. I expect RDM to get more mana generation and DPS cooldowns next expansion and a way to spend them to help facilitate using their mana generation cooldowns when it's time to go ham under raid buffs.

I personally would rather them add another DoT job instead of giving other jobs a DoT just for the sake of it. Maybe a DoT tank? not sure how that would work though. Bard, Summoner, and Scholar all feel different enough, but after a certain point they all might seem samey.

VERBIO!!!!!

XD

Kidding.

Dark arts is already a problem on Dark Knight for it's spammy gameplay, and we have Samurai's Dark Arts (Kaiten) as a gameplay mechanic too. If Red Mages got a damage over time mechanic, which I do think would be neat, I'd hope for it to contribute to some sort of enchanted auto attacking and mana accumulation somehow instead of an apply and forget it kind of deal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZainalZee

an ability that works like Dark Arts,

---

And like that, you've lost me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valdegarde

Dark arts is already a problem on Dark Knight for it's spammy gameplay, and we have Samurai's Dark Arts (Kaiten) as a gameplay mechanic too. If Red Mages got a damage over time mechanic, which I do think would be neat, I'd hope for it to contribute to some sort of enchanted auto attacking and mana accumulation somehow instead of an apply and forget it kind of deal.

---

An enchanted auto attack mechanic...that would be neat, but it would mean that RDM would then have to fight for one of the two melee spots (ie, against DRG and NIN) to be able to play at full potential.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

An enchanted auto attack mechanic...that would be neat, but it would mean that RDM would then have to fight for one of the two melee spots (ie, against DRG and NIN) to be able to play at full potential.

---

Why? Enchanted attacks are still magic damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZainalZee

... an ability that works like Dark Arts

---

I'd rather something like this as passive upgrade to Acceleration as it would make it feel like it actually does something, because to me increasing a 50% proc rate to 100% just feels lame.

I'd like to see Chainspell implemented as a cooldown to be honest. I'd like it to make your next six spells have no cast time and a recast time of 1.5s, matching the melee combo. Give it a 2 minute cooldown. It would may need a damage penalty, since it's roughly a 60% boost to your DPS for 9s with free movement while being a massive white/black mana generator on top of that because it applies to all spells, including Veraero/thunder. Combined with Manafication and a single Dualcast, you can get from 0/0 to get your melee combo rolling roughly 12s into the fight. The result of this is you get to do your full melee combo with Verflare/Holy during a standard 5th GCD TA opener. THAT would be a useful ability to give RDM.

I would never want to see it on BLM. Double-Triplecast with super leylines.

The MP nosedive would also suck tbh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiametric

I'd rather something like this as passive upgrade to Acceleration as it would make it feel like it actually does something, because to me increasing a 50% proc rate to 100% just feels lame.

---

Sounds like your gripe is with a lot more skills than just Acceleration, since its premise is nothing new. But admittedly most of those skills have an additional benefit. Maybe add in crit, that seems to be the most common.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rongway

Why? Enchanted attacks are still magic damage.

---

Imagine Guardian Savage, which only allows 4 players to be in melee range for a portion of the fight. Assuming "enchanted auto attack" means it needs to be an auto attack, RDM would necessarily have to be one of the four in melee range during missiles phase, ink phase, and virus phase.

Whose place would they take? Ninja's? Dragoon's? Paladin's? Warrior's? If RDM isn't considered "one of the melee" when it needs auto attacks to draw out its full potential, then it just flat out won't draw out its full potential.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Imagine Guardian Savage, which only allows 4 players to be in melee range for a portion of the fight. Assuming "enchanted auto attack" means it needs to be an auto attack, RDM would necessarily have to be one of the four in melee range during missiles phase, ink phase, and virus phase.

Whose place would they take? Ninja's? Dragoon's? Paladin's? Warrior's? If RDM isn't considered "one of the melee" when it needs auto attacks to draw out its full potential, then it just flat out won't draw out its full potential.

---

So save the enchanted autoattack ability for after that part. It's not even as bad as having to hold off on Displacing because everything outside of 10ym became a death field for a whole phase. RDMs can attack at range, so obviously they get a ranged pad if there are two melee DDs already.

It doesn't need a DoT for the sake of having one. It needs more oGCD insta-casts, and some of those should generate mana. Plenty of Black and White magic spells left to make oGCDs out of. Verblizzard, Verwater (yes, I will argue this is White Magic-related thematically for FFXIV), some single target and some AoE, no need for a DoT in my opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

An enchanted auto attack mechanic...that would be neat, but it would mean that RDM would then have to fight for one of the two melee spots (ie, against DRG and NIN) to be able to play at full potential.

---

So it'd end up being like 2.x barrage? Considering RDM only autos after it's double cast or melee phase, it doesn't quite sound very useful, considering we only need to be in melee range for a small portion of the entirety of our rotation.


Personally, I love RDM because it doesn't have a DoT. All DoTs in this game (sans BRD) are strictly there for damage; they don't do anything extra. If it came with an additional effect, like someone suggested a way to refresh MP, then sure. IMO, all of the current DoTs should have an additional effect (combine MNK's blunt vulnerability from Dragon Kick into Demolish's DoT). As it were, 4.x saw the removal of a few DoTs (or at least, how many classes had an additional DoT because Fracture was accessible to many different DPS jobs).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JunseiKei

So it'd end up being like 2.x barrage? Considering RDM only autos after it's double cast or melee phase, it doesn't quite sound very useful, considering we only need to be in melee range for a small portion of the entirety of our rotation.


Personally, I love RDM because it doesn't have a DoT. All DoTs in this game (sans BRD) are strictly there for damage; they don't do anything extra. If it came with an additional effect, like someone suggested a way to refresh MP, then sure. IMO, all of the current DoTs should have an additional effect (combine MNK's blunt vulnerability from Dragon Kick into Demolish's DoT). As it were, 4.x saw the removal of a few DoTs (or at least, how many classes had an additional DoT because Fracture was accessible to many different DPS jobs).

---

I was mostly referring to generating White/Black Mana over time being the main reason to have a DoT. I figured it would be a single target oGCD or an alternative weaponskill finisher regardless though. I'd much rather see a straight Osmose oGCD that grants RDM more mana based on their missing MP to solve their mana issues. Not that they couldn't be combined, but I figure the DoT would see more use.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

I was mostly referring to generating White/Black Mana over time being the main reason to have a DoT. I figured it would be a single target oGCD or an alternative weaponskill finisher regardless though. I'd much rather see a straight Osmose oGCD that grants RDM more mana based on their missing MP to solve their mana issues. Not that they couldn't be combined, but I figure the DoT would see more use.

---

I could see the DoT messing with levels of white and black mana when you're forced to wait for mechanics and there's limited melee space. Suddenly you're tapped at 100/100 mana due to how the fight is designed (and, again, probably purposely designed to mess with certain classes/compositions more than others). Right now, RDM can sit on 8x/8x, 8x/9x or 100/8x (or 100/9x) if they line up better with how a fight (and rbuffs) is coordinated. A DoT that raises both mana takes away that flexibility.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rongway

So save the enchanted autoattack ability for after that part. It's not even as bad as having to hold off on Displacing because everything outside of 10ym became a death field for a whole phase. RDMs can attack at range, so obviously they get a ranged pad if there are two melee DDs already.

---

I guess I'm coming at this from the assumption that this enchanted auto attack DoT what-have-you would be something the player wants as close to 100% uptime as possible, much like every other DoT in the game. If it were a timed CD that didn't necessitate that, then I suppose that would work fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JunseiKei

I could see the DoT messing with levels of white and black mana when you're forced to wait for mechanics and there's limited melee space. Suddenly you're tapped at 100/100 mana due to how the fight is designed (and, again, probably purposely designed to mess with certain classes/compositions more than others). Right now, RDM can sit on 8x/8x, 8x/9x or 100/8x (or 100/9x) if they line up better with how a fight (and rbuffs) is coordinated. A DoT that raises both mana takes away that flexibility.

---

That is a good argument to put it on the melee combo, but given how little use that sees, I don't think it would be a good idea. I'm an advocate for adding Verwater/Blizzard into the rotation as mana spenders/converters that you could use in place of Aero/Thunder in the current rotation, which would help with that problem. The conversion rate would be something like spend 7 black mana for 3 white mana for Verwater at 360-400 potency and vice versa for Verblizzard. The potency would be whatever it takes to come close to the melee combo in DPS. I figure they would get the Verstone/Fire proc as well. This would turn the melee combo into something you try to align with raid buffs and personal cooldowns rather than something you always fish for, which the DoT would help facilitate by keeping your mana relatively even in tandem with the spenders. That's the idea I had in mind for it, at least.

[QUOTE=ZainalZee;4796500] My idea is that you would get an ability that works like Dark Arts.



Nope. And i really hope that doesn't happen.