been reading a few of the other threads, and a thought occured that hasnt really been looked at from 1.0 and something that might make for a good 4th dungeon going forward, and thats that 1.0 had non instanced 'dungeons' like nanawa mines that could utilise the better aspects of eureka and diadem to make for an overworld area where people could grind for things while fixing the instanced issues of lack of party finder and the ability to grind things inside while waiting on queues (downside is also means this area cant use crossworld functionality without some huge overhaul of duty finder)
the other thing is while i know everyone hates totorak as it is now, the underlying ideas in a multiple choice dungeon crawl from 1.0 (yes i know 1.0 only had 4 dungeons) could work again going into 5.0 with the new areas, a sort of twist on old ideas, and having one of these longer dungeons on the off patches similar to the HM dungeons on the even ones could be a nice change of pace without straying too far from what does work in the game (of course then youll likely run into the potd/hoh/old msq problem where assholes only ever want to speedrun and must go faster and ignore all the exploration and chests gimping anyone who actively wants to do the content)
but those are my ramblings and i think the failures the devs have had in diadem and eureka and the dd system may make the things people liked about them resurface in interesting ways in 5.0
1.0 dungeon rambling
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10-11-2018, 02:44 AMAstarotha1.0 dungeon rambling
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10-11-2018, 07:27 AMMicahZerrshia
Yoshida has stated that multiple goals in a dungeon would not work because it would cause too much conflict, esp in roulettes, with different people wanting to go different routes. You can already see that in content like HoH with the ppl who are there for exp vs those who are there for chests.
Also, the set up and multiple goals of the dungeons in 1.x nearly everyone hated because it only increased the amount of times you needed to do the same dungeon, it got super old and super stale, super fast, esp the speed run aspect. The only possible way they could do this would be to only make it accessible by pre-formed pts and never touched by roulettes. But if you are going to do that, may as well just make different dungeons so its still playable down the line and more interesting.
I would like open world dungeons like Shposhae and Carpathia Hallow or w/e it was called. But they shouldn't be anything like Diadem or Eureka. Both of those need to never be spoken of again. idk what good aspects you are even talking about as I don't think either really has any... -
10-11-2018, 07:32 AMvan_arn
1.0 is dead and it was terrible. Keep it all buried.
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10-11-2018, 07:41 AMValkyrie_Lenneth
Something people seem to forget whenever "open world content" gets brought up is hunts. People hate them. They aren't fates, they arent instanced, yet the community largely despises them. Why? Because you have to be there when the hunt is active to get credit.
Now lets take an open world dungeon. It has boss inside. Someone kills it. Now you can't until it respawns. Now there is a large group there. Ok, now you have the problem with hunts, either people pull whenever it spawns and a large group miss out on loot, and you have people whining about early pulling and all that garbage again, or you reduce it to being claimable, where only 1 party gets loot. then you have bots and trolls lining up to control the spawns.
Fates are a way to make open world content work. This is why they are so heavily used. You get rid of the "fate" and its just a world mob with a despawn timer. Think of them that way instead, if the word "fate" bothers you so much. -
10-11-2018, 07:59 AMMicahZerrshia
ESO does public dungeons extremely well imo. FFXIV could easily look there for inspiration.
And while they are at it, they should take a gander at the housing system because it is just magnificent. Spent half the day just decorating my Grand Psijic Villa they just gave us today, for free. -
10-11-2018, 08:12 AMRamessesAhhh com'on, it wasn't all that bad. To be fair, 1.0 (Tanaka's build) was absolutely horrible, yes... made me even quit for several months. But from the 1.17 build onwards, the game did begin to show some promise.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
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10-11-2018, 08:15 AMvan_arnBut it was still terrible. Just seeing that UI gives me flashbacks. *shudder*Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramesses
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10-11-2018, 08:55 AMKaivaC/10charQuote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...c9f7ec6168.jpg -
10-11-2018, 09:27 AMValkyrie_Lennethhttp://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-community-nowQuote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
Biggest thread i could find using limited search query on the forums. There have been countless threads over the years, it looks like you only recently joined, and after hunts mostly died down.
Plus, there were lots of shouts on mateus after 4.0 of "Balmung has ruined this server, Balmung players early pull, Early pullers are the worst"
People used to have macros that would target the person the hunt targeted when pulled, call them out in shout, and basically incite mass harassment to that individual, no matter the reason. Hunts used to be more toxic than pvp, and that takes effort. -
10-11-2018, 12:04 PMzuzu-bq
Seems like next Eureka instalments will bring something like 1.0 Open Dungeon design, that is based on XI and old MMO stuff.
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10-11-2018, 12:31 PMRokkeQuote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
ispano had things figured out back in 2014. The people who hate hunts have always been the lazy that want rewards for free lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ispano
As others have said, the next Eureka is supposed to have "open dungeons". Best start making popcorn now cause its going to be hilarious. -
10-11-2018, 01:21 PMGeminaBCNMs from FFXI is a concept that would avoid this. The dungeon is open world, but the boss is instanced. I feel this is something SE could do well if they just put some thought into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
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10-11-2018, 05:32 PMTalithaSolarienESO has a mega server architecture with sharded virtual servers which restrict the number of players in each zone. This will not work with the FF14 server architecture. I don't want to see the whole population of Odin wailing on a Public Dungeon boss. The lag on special Fates like Foxy Lady, Odin or Ixion is already bad enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia
ESO's housing is way better tho :-) -
10-11-2018, 11:29 PMMicahZerrshia
14 does the shards as well for large overworld maps when they get too crowded, like post expac, so it is doable with the way our servers are set up too.
But for the most part I just like how in a public dungeon you can run through and help each other out with various tasks and downing bosses even without being in a pt, esp since bosses respawn as quickly as normal mobs mostly. And everyone has their own loot outside world chests. I have always had for the most part great experiences in eso when it comes to community, esp compared to ffxiv, so I may be a lil bias since I haven't seen the full extent of the dark side that lurks in every game.
They could also have quest specific bosses that work like leve mobs, they appear in an otherwise empty room, but only the player/party can see and engage them. -
10-12-2018, 12:11 AMEloah
What needs to happen is dungeons need multiple layouts, not necessarily multiple routes. The best example I can give is from Rabanastre, though it might give a multi-route feel. But the transition from the 2nd boss to the 3rd, forces the alliance apart, with each party taking a separate path. We need dungeons that when you enter the paths that are "open" are different each time. Enemies are similar, bosses can even be the same, but the feel of the dungeon is different each time. But the goal is always the same so no infighting.
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10-12-2018, 03:18 AMreiichi
This would actually be really nice! So basically, New Dungeon would have like, A/B/C routes where the objectives and mechanics are all the same, but which one you enter would be seemingly random such that, someone queueing the same place back to back wouldn't always run the same route?
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10-12-2018, 05:29 AMEloahCorrect, that way you have some variety without causing Meta issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by reiichi
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10-12-2018, 11:11 AMShurrikhanTaking every poorly performing package solely as a package deal doesn't allow for any meaningful analysis or, thereby, improvement. Eureka was, on the whole, lackluster at best. Does that make even its terrain art a problem? No. The parts that were problematic, by interaction or in themselves, were the problems. You can identify the patterns that caused those issues, but until then, anything less circuitous or any less precise is going to be inaccurate and not only useless, but outright harmful to beneficial changes in design concept and iteration.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
And in this case, 1.x as a package is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion. We are merely talking about (1) public dungeons, which happened to be useful as leveling, hunting, and/or challenge spaces in 1.x, and (2) dungeons which are not purely linear.
And I personally preferred the pre 1.17 vision, had it just been given the same influx of staff and funding that 1.17 and onward had. Though, I'm not sure I'd sacrifice the current combat philosophy for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramesses
I mean, back then I could /command shortcut everything, or even just hit my middle mouse button and then blind-scroll to where I knew stuff to be, keeping literally everything within a click and a few sfx ticks. There were no item-drag turn-ins; no need to fish special items from your inventory or click on small quest item indicators.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
Honestly, I preferred 1.x's menu over 2.0's original menus. It looked cleaner and, for one who'd already used the 1.x menus a handful of times, more intuitive in its all-in-one fly-out sidebar than the permanently on-screen buttons.
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Now, on topic (@ OP) ....
There's really not much to being a public dungeon than being a distinct area. Mechanics, rare mobs, NMs, or virtually anything else you could think of a given area having might or might not be a part of that. I'd argue that the cyclops area in Anemos is probably just as distinct to most players as, say, Nanawa Mines was back in the day, though less than original Sashtasha, due to its layers of increasing difficulty, treasure clues, patrols, and the like. To all intents and purposes, we're kind of using them already, and anything that would improve upon their design can and should be applied elsewhere as well to some degree; we shouldn't have to keep the all but those areas of the world barebones just to call distinction to those areas that (make best) use (of) the added mechanics or whatnot.
There are tons of possibilities, and I'd gladly join enthusiasts in talking and salivating over those prospects, but it arguably shouldn't feel like a new feature. It should just feel like XIV finally learning to make use of their terrain for something other than mob-grinding, NM-grinding, and FATE-grinding. -
10-13-2018, 09:32 PMBesameI'd go for public dungeons with some kind of timer for boss fight pull. As far as housing, Wild Star was the best I have seen. The housing here is just piss poor.Quote:
Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia