Advice for recruiting for free companies from someone who isn't in one.

This is going to be a little list of things not to do and to do.

1. Do not randomly blind invite. Blind inviting is just sending an invite out of the blue. Talk to the person first.
2. Do not use a copy/paste macro when recruiting. We can tell. Talk to the person as a person.
3. If you talk to the person and they say no, they may remember you if it was good. They may say yes later. So don't:
-get mad at them for not accepting
-offer to bribe them to join.
-badger them to join
4. If you talk to the person, and it goes ok, even if rejected, for the love of God remember them. Do not keep sending them the same copy and pasted macro each time you come across them. Just talk to them as people (see the common thread?)
5. Realize that not everyone wants to be an officer. Try and find out what they do want from an fc. Make sure its soemthing beneficial, not many people want to join an fc just to make levekits for everyone, or be errand boy for you.
6. Be careful of what your members do. If your members like to troll the local annoying guy in Limsa for the lulz, realize a lot of people are watching them do that, and they may not like trolls, and they will remember the FC.
7. Lastly, make sure your fc meets its existing people's needs. Make sure you are not all on discord, that your members are ok, you are doing content, etc. Recuiting people who are considering your fc only to watch it implode and split, and then the following fc split, can sour them on the idea itself. Watching them go through three or more changes of leadership because the leaders keep dropping out of the game...not good. The best advertisement is a group of people having fun.

This game is tough because guilds are such a weak presence in it. You don't rely on them to do any endgame at all, its all the relationships. So you don't have the leeway other games have, where a lot of people feel forced into it just to run raids.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

7. Lastly, make sure your fc meets its existing people's needs. Make sure you are not all on discord, that your members are ok, you are doing content, etc..

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You were fine up to this point. I am not sure what your beef is with discord. The last Siren FC I had was wonderful - they still are, from what I understand. It's nice to hang out with your guildmates outside of the game, when you're not near your computer, or just want to bs around. Those qualities make a good FC. There are some bad discords out there, but advertising to make sure that FC members are not all on discord speaks of bias based on personal experience. Discord is not bad. You can have just as much drama and problems without discord. Other than that, the rest of this point is correct.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

This game is tough because guilds are such a weak presence in it. You don't rely on them to do any endgame at all, its all the relationships. So you don't have the leeway other games have, where a lot of people feel forced into it just to run raids.

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Again, this is bias on your part. Because for every story you can come up, there are dozens of other stories that say otherwise. Sorry to hear that you aren't in an FC, but when you give a PSA about something like this, don't put bias about certain things out like that. Not all FCs care about running endgame. Most of the FCs that I have been a part of, they are still up and running successfully, and they do things that don't involve endgame. My current one included.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

You were fine up to this point. I am not sure what your beef is with discord. The last Siren FC I had was wonderful - they still are, from what I understand. It's nice to hang out with your guildmates outside of the game, when you're not near your computer, or just want to bs around. Those qualities make a good FC. There are some bad discords out there, but advertising to make sure that FC members are not all on discord speaks of bias based on personal experience. Discord is not bad. You can have just as much drama and problems without discord. Other than that, the rest of this point is correct.

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From personal experience, an FC that's always chatting on Discord means anyone who isn't using it is left out of most of the conversation. It is biased, but people should advertise what kind of FC they are. If they're always going to be on Discord, someone who isn't won't find it very welcoming.

Anyway, this whole thread will just fall on deaf ears. The people who are doing blind invites and such are just going to keep doing it, because they're just casting a wide net. Quantity over quality, and keeping whatever sticks. It can be an effective method of recruiting, but not one that I'm fond of.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

You were fine up to this point. I am not sure what your beef is with discord.

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I have been in FCS where all the core members are on discord, and no one talks in the game, ever. Trust me, you lose members when you do that, because not everyone wants to use voice chat to socialize, because people often monopolize voice chat and form cliques, because some players don't like it because they don't want their gender or age known, or because they don't want to be contacted outside of the game. So if your newbie pops in, and no one talks in it, or every time you run something the core members are on discord, why bother?

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Again, this is bias on your part. Because for every story you can come up, there are dozens of other stories that say otherwise.

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There is nothing in this game that requires an FC. That's a big problem. Since the apartments, the two biggest benefits were taken away, i.e. affordable fc apartments and chocobo raising/stabling. If you are two out of the three archetypes, you don't need fc mates to pop queues for you. With HoH and POTD, you may not even as DPS. You get some minor buffs. I said that mostly because you cannot rely on people wanting to join an fc for fc's sake; if anything, i do more outside one because I don't need to spend a half hour waiting for them to do things.

So you have to compensate for having a great community of people.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

I have been in FCS where all the core members are on discord, and no one talks in the game, ever. Trust me, you lose members when you do that, because not everyone wants to use voice chat to socialize, because people often monopolize voice chat and form cliques, because some players don't like it because they don't want their gender or age known, or because they don't want to be contacted outside of the game. So if your newbie pops in, and no one talks in it, or every time you run something the core members are on discord, why bother?

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The issue in particular that I'm taking is that you are sort of demonizing discord. Sometimes, it is a pain to have to put down the controller to type during runs (PS4 player). Other times, I just want to check in with either my forum mates or my FC friends when I'm not near my game. ...Maybe I should ask you to clarify something. Is the point you made about FCs that exclusively use discord, or FCs that happen to have a discord available?

edit: Aha...well, looks like you won't have to worry about a follow up post. I just hit my daily post limit.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

The issue in particular that I'm taking is that you are sort of demonizing discord.

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I don't think theres separation as much between occasionally and exclusively. people will over time go to exclusivity because of the intimacy of voice chat. Or at least it is a big danger.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Anyway, this whole thread will just fall on deaf ears. The people who are doing blind invites and such are just going to keep doing it, because they're just casting a wide net. Quantity over quality, and keeping whatever sticks. It can be an effective method of recruiting, but not one that I'm fond of.

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well, i do owe this board some constructive posting, so let it fall if so.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Make sure you are not all on discord

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Reason:

Discord is run by Ascians.

The whole thing with and FC that's always chatting in non FC chat is that unless you're also part of those chats voice or otherwise is the fact it can make people feel unwanted. Specially when you get a response to something said in one of those other chats in FC chat. Or the chat suddenly moves to FC chat. My problem is when you know those who are chatting only in those other channels are on but non responsive to people asking for help or wanting to run things. Along with that's how they chose to decide when events are and then only mention it or want to talk about it in those other chat channels. Any time a chat is always dead and yet you know that it doesn't have to be is a bad thing. Also some people are uncomfortable when needing to check things like discord even if it's just to see if any events have been planed.

The Discord concerns ring true for me as well. My very first FC at launch, we had so much fun together, but they started doing just about everything on voice chat. Those of us who couldn't hop on often got to deal with a silent FC, and when we did try and chat/ask questions, it was often missed and we got no response. Gotta say, that sucks. I've run into varying degrees of that with most of the other FCs I've joined as well. Discord isn't necessarily bad, but be upfront about it because that can be a deal breaker for a lot of people.

The other thing I would add to the list, if you are rejected by someone, at least give them the courtesy of a final reply. I don't have a FC either, and so I tend to get a decent amount of FC invites. I try to always respond directly to an invite, and it always makes me laugh when I've replied to them declining politely, and they no longer respond to me. Perhaps that's being petty, but it seems like basic social etiquette. And it always makes me feel like I've made the right decision in declining if they can't even bother with a quick reply.

I can attest to the discord thing as well and I'd recommend any fc leader tha when you're recruiting, if you know a very large chunk of your members are mostly on it, advertise that and vice versa. At least it'll let members know which social medium your fc uses most.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

This game is tough because guilds are such a weak presence in it. You don't rely on them to do any endgame at all, its all the relationships. So you don't have the leeway other games have, where a lot of people feel forced into it just to run raids.

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I agree with points 1 to 6. 7 is a 'lol whut' due to being able to contact others on mobile discord when you can get in game, like when the FC I'm in holds events, helps others learn fights and get clears, or raids together. You don't 'need' discord, but it helps.

I think everyone should get back on Ventrilo.

I have one. If the FC isn't an ERP FC, then please do not do ERP in the FC chat. I was in a FC where a leader started doing this. And sent my brother a tell saying "I can turn you bi". Yeah, nah, not cool, me and my brother both left that fc

So is he bi now?

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Originally Posted by Lauront

So is he bi now?

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Nah, he ran away too quickly, so the leaders spell got interrupted. :P

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Originally Posted by Bacent

I agree with points 1 to 6. 7 is a 'lol whut' due to being able to contact others on mobile discord when you can get in game, like when the FC I'm in holds events, helps others learn fights and get clears, or raids together. You don't 'need' discord, but it helps.

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It's a matter of preference, too many people completely stop typing in FC chat once they have a core group going on voice chat, so FC chat will be dead for anyone not on voice.

I don't use discord so that alienates me from a lot of people. I'm used to chatting with text from playing FF11. It's why I prefer to go without an FC since using discord seems to be the norm among the people.

Random invites and copy&paste msg are an instant ignored&pass.

I always blatantly ignore random invites and copy/paste message that plague limsa. (especially on Cactuar where a certain FC runs rampant)

Also it gets really annoying when you join an FC and they ignore your questions a day after, not is more demoralizing than joining an FC only to notice that there is an already established clique that will pretty much pretend everyone doesnt exist.

Also tip for FC leaders, please keep your members in check, you never know what you're own members are doing outside of the FC chat/discord, the first FC I joined when I came to Cactuar, found out most of the FC members are sleazes who hit on anything with a tail. Your members are an example of what your FC is.

It amuses me that people are using the word "Clique" when it is their choice not to join in on the social interaction.

Let me share my personal experience. I am very much a quiet, prefer-text-to-be-social person. When I first joined my current FC, it was very obviously a group that used a lot of voice, and FC chat could be quiet. Then I realized that if you talk to them in discord chat, you'll get a lot more interaction because everyone on the discord can see it. I also realized that they were perfectly happy to be social with me in the times I do choose to be social in voice. I feel very welcome in this FC, even though I personally very rarely hop onto voice chat so I can be social at the same time as playing.

I submit that people are not choosing to make "Cliques" or to purposefully disclude people, but rather they're simply using the best methods (discord text and/or voice) to talk. And you know what? I've seen people join and leave this FC, citing these very same reasons listed in this thread, when in fact they made zero effort to be social with us. They expected us to make the effort to make them specifically feel welcome, when we in fact treated them the same as everyone else. I argue that a good Discord server is not a sign of an asocial FC, but rather of one of the best FCs you could find.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyDevo

It amuses me that people are using the word "Clique" when it is their choice not to join in on the social interaction.

Let me share my personal experience. I am very much a quiet, prefer-text-to-be-social person. When I first joined my current FC, it was very obviously a group that used a lot of voice, and FC chat could be quiet. Then I realized that if you talk to them in discord chat, you'll get a lot more interaction because everyone on the discord can see it. I also realized that they were perfectly happy to be social with me in the times I do choose to be social in voice. I feel very welcome in this FC, even though I personally very rarely hop onto voice chat so I can be social at the same time as playing.

I submit that people are not choosing to make "Cliques" or to purposefully disclude people, but rather they're simply using the best methods (discord text and/or voice) to talk. And you know what? I've seen people join and leave this FC, citing these very same reasons listed in this thread, when in fact they made zero effort to be social with us. They expected us to make the effort to make them specifically feel welcome, when we in fact treated them the same as everyone else. I argue that a good Discord server is not a sign of an asocial FC, but rather of one of the best FCs you could find.

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Most people don't purposely make these cliques. It's something that just happens naturally. They're not intentionally being exclusionary, but they are by the very nature of it being a separate chat that's outside of the game, being exclusionary. Anyone who isn't using Discord is essentially excluded from anything that's happening on it.

Cliques also tend to happen naturally. So, if you even try to be social with them on their turf you can still be excluded unless they see you as someone to include into their Clique. Some form due to those people having been friends for years or they have the same mindset/personality. This of course doesn't mean you can't have fun with them or talk with them or even get help from them. What it does mean that unless you're accepted by them you still will get the sense that there is a feeling of not fitting in. Also why shouldn't an FC not be inviting to their new members? They asked if you wanted to join and you said yes. How is not trying to get to know you or ask you if you need help ect an ok thing?

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

This is going to be a little list of things not to do and to do.

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8. Don't go in blind.

My old FC all of a sudden decided that any important news or decisions would be on Discord instead of in the game. As an officer I felt obligated to log onto Discord several times a day just to check. I also had to scroll through endless chatting to find said important information. The fact that I can't use internet on my phone meant that I had to interrupt whatever I was doing to check Discord because I didn't want to be a bad officer. I hated that. Turned out the leaders were a-holes anyway so I left that FC.

“6. Be careful of what your members do. If your members like to troll the local annoying guy in Limsa for the lulz, realize a lot of people are watching them do that, and they may not like trolls, and they will remember the FC.”

This kind of behavior singles people out, and makes more problems. Obviously If they’re being extremely hateful, then fine.

If people are all joking around, and having fun, then lighten up. Who cares what others think if you are all having a good time.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyDevo

It amuses me that people are using the word "Clique" when it is their choice not to join in on the social interaction.

Let me share my personal experience. I am very much a quiet, prefer-text-to-be-social person. When I first joined my current FC, it was very obviously a group that used a lot of voice, and FC chat could be quiet. Then I realized that if you talk to them in discord chat, you'll get a lot more interaction because everyone on the discord can see it. I also realized that they were perfectly happy to be social with me in the times I do choose to be social in voice. I feel very welcome in this FC, even though I personally very rarely hop onto voice chat so I can be social at the same time as playing.

I submit that people are not choosing to make "Cliques" or to purposefully disclude people, but rather they're simply using the best methods (discord text and/or voice) to talk. And you know what? I've seen people join and leave this FC, citing these very same reasons listed in this thread, when in fact they made zero effort to be social with us. They expected us to make the effort to make them specifically feel welcome, when we in fact treated them the same as everyone else. I argue that a good Discord server is not a sign of an asocial FC, but rather of one of the best FCs you could find.

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Good for you, ya lucked out.

But this is a common theme I have seen in all the popular servers, a new player joins, tries to interact/ask for help, and they are outright ignored by a group of 5 for absolutely no reason, even on Discord.

So yea, I'm going to throw around the word, because whether you interact with them or not, it's inevitable you'll meet that one FC that even though at face value they're nice and friendly, but in truth are utterly non-inclusive for no discernable reason.

So yea my point still stands, if you're going to make some terrible copy/paste "We are a friendly FC with a big house" nonsense message, I'd expect everyone, or atleast a handful of people in the FC to include the new person in some of their social activities, not doing so is outright rude and just shows you only want new members for the sake of having some.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Nah, he ran away too quickly, so the leaders spell got interrupted. :P

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Should've taken Concentrate. ;)

9. If you don't like the rules of a FC or that they use discord, make your own FC and don't allow that they use discord.

@Ilan Your reply made me laugh xD

TBH. If I could add my cents... as I am currently running fcless I kinda have my pet peeves about fcs I join.
- I don't mind copy pastes especially if it is spread in time (like 1nce per 30 mins) and is well written. FC I absolutely loved being a part of had a very well written fc announcement listing all the things I was looking in fc. Like at a time I was looking for social, casual and no drama and wanted a big fc. It was all in there and turned out to be true as well x). Good announcement goes a mile.
- do not send me petition for fc to sign without asking if I wanna do it. (yes, that did happen to be this week)
- don't send me invite to your fc without pm. I don't know who you are. Stranger why are you inviting me to your house?
- don't nag me to join after I say 'no'.
- yes, if you do pm make it personable but to the point. Getting random 'hey' to find out 3 mins later that you want me to join your fc is eh. And again describe your fc and its goals. Show me your gold ;).
-rule of a thumb is IDC if whole fc uses discord and camps on VC (I am shy and defo wont join to start with) and I get that some people dont have mikes built in or are muted for whatever reasons. But... why the muted people have to type in answers in fc chat? Use discord for that. Like it happened to me a few times that I thought question posed in fc chat was directed in general to everyone but then got reply 'ah no I was replying to sb in vc'. Reading one sided convos make me wanna mute the channel.
- and that is my post scriptum and because I have been playing game long enough to see a few fcs in my time... so you got me in.... What happens is that I get 'hellos' from like loads of people but then . it. is. quiet. Or they go back to previous convo without trying to involve anyone. Makes it a bit awkward and hard to acclimate.

DISCORD WISE --- uh every medium of communication has good and bad side. Cliques happen for multiple reasons (and discord is not to blame most often). But if they are there, question is why they don't try to involve new person in more. Like... they invited the newb to their house. Why do you pretend he is not here? XD If a clique is not open to expanding the fc shouldnt recruit. Simple as that. I get that not everyone is gonna fit but if you are aware of the fact that you do have a self-adoration group (nothing wrong with it per se) maybe get new person to meet them and see if they fit before you try to get someone to join. Not everyone has to be in your fc. /shrug

Yeah the generic FC info shouts are just bad as they don't tell you what makes them different from any other FC. Like the ones that say they're a casual/midcore that does everything and is a family. To me that doesn't tell me what you think everything is. Also be able to answer simple questions or at least try to take the time to answer them. For instance if you say you're drama free you should be able to tell someone how you deal with an argument that gets out of hand. Don't come off like answering a question someone might have is a waste of your time by telling them to go to your site or to your ingame history night or whatever. The person asking is a potential member or someone who if they ever wanted to join an FC or if they left their current one is doing research so they know if you're going to be enough of a fit for them.

I've been in the same FC for years now but aside from personal preferences the one thing that originally set it apart and made me inclined to stay was being treated like an individual. The person who sent the invite took an interest in getting to know me a little, not in an invasive manner but just a "Hi how's it going" kind of thing, and remembered me the next time.

I suppose technically that's not so much recruiting as welcoming but it's my two cents on free companies. In the beginning me and my husband spent a brief amount of time in several and I would say, do what you can to ensure new members feel like more than just another number.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Yeah the generic FC info shouts are just bad as they don't tell you what makes them different from any other FC. Like the ones that say they're a casual/midcore that does everything and is a family. To me that doesn't tell me what you think everything is. Also be able to answer simple questions or at least try to take the time to answer them. For instance if you say you're drama free you should be able to tell someone how you deal with an argument that gets out of hand. Don't come off like answering a question someone might have is a waste of your time by telling them to go to your site or to your ingame history night or whatever. The person asking is a potential member or someone who if they ever wanted to join an FC or if they left their current one is doing research so they know if you're going to be enough of a fit for them.

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Don't forget the cookies they never hand out, the raids they help you do sparsely, the pvp that only one other person in the entire guild does and the family of newly invited recruits that leave the next day.

I'm in an FC that has a discord. We talk occasionally in it sure. But we do talk in game. Do not let the blame fall on a service thats quite useful for voice/text chatting. It's the people in the FC. Just because an FC has a discord, does not mean its the only source of communication.

I feel alot of this while some of it true, the rest comes from a bad experience. And I don't agree that FC's have a weak presence. They're fantastic when done correctly. But alot of times it may require three changes of leadership and growing pains. Not every FC is the same. While I agree with not blind inviting people, there is something to be said about how the rest of the post is put out.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

“6. Be careful of what your members do. If your members like to troll the local annoying guy in Limsa for the lulz, realize a lot of people are watching them do that, and they may not like trolls, and they will remember the FC.”

This kind of behavior singles people out, and makes more problems. Obviously If they’re being extremely hateful, then fine.

If people are all joking around, and having fun, then lighten up. Who cares what others think if you are all having a good time.

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I think the point here was that recruiters and FC leaders need to be aware of how members' behavior reflects on the FC as a whole. If it's just one member of your FC doing something other people dislike, that's one thing--but if you have multiple members doing things that irritate other people, even if they think they're just joking around, your FC definitely is going to get a certain reputation among others that might decrease your ability to recruit.

For a short while, a friend of mine joined an FC on our server who later cultivated a bad reputation for being early pullers at hunts. It wasn't every member of the FC early pulling, only a few people--nevertheless, the FC got such a bad reputation that ALL its members were banned and removed from essentially every hunt linkshell on the server, including my friend who was not an early puller, and finding parties at hunts was essentially impossible because of the actions of a few of the FC's members. My friend left the FC because of that reason.

If you're an FC leader and you don't want your FC to get an unsavory reputation, you need to at least be alert and aware to your members' behavior and consider how your members interact in groups with other members of the server community. If you're the kind of leader who is okay with your members having fun by doing things that stand a good chance of irritating other players, like trolling, so be it--but all this person is saying is that you have to be aware that's going to affect your FC's reputation among possible new recruits.

I'm the more qualified person to give advice.

I know my FC is dead but I can consistently recruit two people a day in it if i tried. That's 14 people a week...

Well, they often don't stay for long, but we're only talk about RECRUITMENT right?

#4 is the biggest one I see recruiters screw up on. I've had the same person send tells to me with almost the same exact word-for-word spiel on three different occasions, with one I actually did reply back to and decline.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Nah, he ran away too quickly, so the leaders spell got interrupted. :P

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I give you kudos for playing along with the question rather than being rude. Well played!

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Should've taken Concentrate. ;)

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I'm not sure if Concentrate works for things that have gone out of range, and broken LoS, since my brother sprinted out the FC door. (He was sent that tell when he stumbled into the erp session in the fc house. All he wanted to do was find the mender, poor guy.)

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Originally Posted by JackHatchet

I give you kudos for playing along with the question rather than being rude. Well played!

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Thanks, I use jokes to hide the mental scarring @-@

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Originally Posted by Super_Bee_Brian

I'm the more qualified person to give advice.

I know my FC is dead but I can consistently recruit two people a day in it if i tried. That's 14 people a week...

Well, they often don't stay for long, but we're only talk about RECRUITMENT right?

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But are you actually giving cookies to your newly recruited marks? I mean, fc members?

Someone has to ask the real questions.