Are they all really "bads" or maybe people with disabilities?

I'm a bit afraid to be posting this because I'm not sure what the reaction will be but... I have a learning disability, sometimes it takes me few pulls to learn normal raid mechs, I get a bit disheartened when I see people almost bragging or taking joy in kicking "bad" players who have trouble with mechanics, I've experienced this in game before when I was hesitant to tell people that I had a disability, and recently I have started telling people I have a learning disability when I have trouble with content(it took me a few pulls to clear O12 normal I said I had a learning disability and 3 people immediately left then ironically we cleared on the first pull when we had some people join in progress(who if I recall were all new to the fight), I MT'd the fight and was even able to explain the mechanics to the new comers it just seems like there's a lot of people in the XIV community who are quick to leave/kick if there's any sort of issues without being patient or trying to address the problem or trying to understand the people they are partying with.

I might not clear savage/ultimate raids but I don't think by any means I'm a bad player I normally run current relevant normal mode content and I keep aggro I've even been trying to push out more DPS when I can(admittedly I do struggle a bit in swapping between hotbars quickly but I think with practice I've gotten better. just because it might take me a little bit longer to learn content and I just kinda get disheartened the way I see people say how many people that play this game are "bad" and it feels like they are talking in part about me. Has anyone here experienced this kind of thing at all?

You can always make a party finder to find people who are willing to help. Everyone has their difficulties and duty finder can always be a gamble.

Are they all disabled or just bad?

It can swing either way, the point is that nobody really cares. We only care about getting things done in a timely and reasonably efficient manner, and if other players are holding that back, disability or not, they're likely to be chastised for it. Is it fair? Hell no, but do you have to justify yourself to someone you're likely to never meet in game again? Why bother. Move on.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

Are they all disabled or just bad?

It can swing either way, the point is that nobody really cares. We only care about getting things done in a timely and reasonably efficient manner, and if other players are holding that back, disability or not, they're likely to be chastised for it. Is it fair? Hell no, but do you have to justify yourself to someone you're likely to never meet in game again? Why bother. Move on.

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That's true I should move on, in addition to my disability I also struggle with major depression so I guess the comments/the kicks just end up sticking with me and dragging me down.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

That's true I should move on, in addition to my disability I also struggle with major depression so I guess the comments/the kicks just end up sticking with me and dragging me down.

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That's the key thing. It's really hard to do so, but just try to rise above it. You shouldn't have to tell everyone about your difficulties, you shouldn't have to defend yourself. Assholes will be assholes at the end of the day and there's nothing you can do to change that. What you can change is how you react to it. Stay strong. *fistbump*

It can also be from using an older PC that barely (or perhaps even doesn't) meet minimum system requirements. I would fail Active Time Maneuvers on my old PC that aren't a problem now that I have a new one.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

Are they all disabled or just bad?

It can swing either way, the point is that nobody really cares. We only care about getting things done in a timely and reasonably efficient manner, and if other players are holding that back, disability or not, they're likely to be chastised for it. Is it fair? Hell no, but do you have to justify yourself to someone you're likely to never meet in game again? Why bother. Move on.

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Duty Finder is there to allow all players to find a group, regardless of their personal skill level, as long as they meet minimum level/ilvl requirements.

If you're only interested in a smooth run, you're better off using Party Finder where you control who is added to the group to ensure you get your smooth run.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It can also be from using an older PC that barely (or perhaps even doesn't) meet minimum system requirements. I would fail Active Time Maneuvers on my old PC that aren't a problem now that I have a new one.


Duty Finder is there to allow all players to find a group, regardless of their personal skill level, as long as they meet minimum level/ilvl requirements.

If you're only interested in a smooth run, you're better off using Party Finder where you control who is added to the group to ensure you get your smooth run.

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I know why they are there, thanks. You mean to tell me you didn't queue into The Burn for the first time via DF and had your tank zoom off instantly while you wanted to absorb the lore/environment/ambience at a decent pace? You can't deny PF mentality bleeds into DF.

I'd like to hope that not everyone who is bad is disabled. Thing is what one person calls bad might not be bad to others. Like I'm sure most will agree that a Blm only using blizzard spells is bad regardless if they have a disability or not. Now take that same Blm but they don't know the lv 70 opener but seem to use their whole tool kit might be bad to some; yet to others they might not be because at least they're trying. That person could be disabled or they could just not know of a better way to play their job. If they do know but refuse to improve then again man will label them as a bad player. Learning a fight slightly slower than everyone else to me is fine. What isn't fine is when it's months and maybe even years later and that same person hasn't gotten better at all.

Taking a few pulls to learn all the mechanics in a normal 8 man is perfectly normal. Don't take the "I one shot every boss below savage and 2 shot ex primals and if you don't you're bad" comments on the forums seriously. Individual pug players take a few attempts to get everything down smoothly in future runs. My fc takes a few attempts to get the hang of everything. I take a few attempts to figure it all out in my mind.

Bad does not mean an inability to analyse and smoothly defeat an entirely new boss first try. Bad is an unwillingness to learn, listen, analyse or contribute to their team.

To me "bads" are determined by attitude and not current ability.

A person can have all the natural ability in the world but if they are lazy, impatient or in general just a jerk that will work against them and potentially negate the effects of any ability advantage they may have.
On the other hand a person can have something that hinders their natural ability, such as a disability, but if they have a good attitude and seek to be better than their limitations they will eventually improve and overcome.

As for me, as long as you let me know what the situation is and I can see that you are trying, I will stick with you and do what I can to assist.

As in life, people in this game should practice understanding, patience and communicate properly.

Edit:
As a side-note, some of my most enjoyable and memorable runs have been with people that were new or having a bit of understandable difficulty but had good attitudes. Sure the runs took longer; but we joked, chatted a bit, pointers were given and everyone left happy after having a good time together and the person that was originally having some trouble had shown noticeable improvement by the end because they were supported and given the chance to improve.

Unless you're being purposefully uncooperative I see no reason to kick, everyone learns the fights at different paces and unless it's an old dungeon I don't go into stuff expecting a flawless easy run every time.

In my opinion, "bads" are the people who even after everything is explained to them will insist on doing things their way, whether it be how to play their class/role or how to do a certain fight (for example I remember someone in an O12 run insisting on bringing the stack marker to the edge even though everyone else wanted to have it in the middle. he then proceeded to berate everyone when he died because he brought it to the edge and then no one stacked with him)

Few pulls on normal is perfectly fine, no need to start about your disability or depression or w/e, many people need several pulls to familiarize themselves.

On harder content e.g. (Mythic raids on WoW & Ultimate in this game) some bosses can require a few hundreds of pulls, also for people without disabilities or what not.

You have blacklist for a reason.

So, don't sweat it, just play and have fun.

I'd hazard a guess that the number of disabled players is probably higher than a lot of people imagine (assuming we take a fairly broad definition and not just disabled severely enough to keep you out of work). Over the years, we've had deaf players in our guild, dyslexic players, people with sight issues and others with issues like arthritis or slower reactions due to age or illness.

The biggest issue I find in DF is that a lot of players tend to spring to the judgement that 'bad' players are either trolling or wanting a carry and this is compounded by people being generally unwilling or unable to communicate in random groups. My first run in the Burn for example, was made a lot less fun by someone who implied they knew the strats, but who found it much more productive to berate the group for wipes or individual deaths than to try and explain anything.

I know most people on the forum are very understanding when people say they have a disability and I would expect that to hold true in-game. I certainly don't think this attitude is representative of the majority of EU players:

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

...nobody really cares. We only care about getting things done in a timely and reasonably efficient manner...

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While I don't think people who are sick or disabled should be expected to give that information out to every random person they group with, it might make sense to say something if they know their issues are likely to affect the rest of the group.

The other thing that has to be remembered is that a lot of people on the forum consistently over-estimate or over-state their own ability or simply have unrealistic expectations of others. It pays to be a little cynical when people tell you how great they are and how nearly everyone else sucks.

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Originally Posted by Solarra

The other thing that has to be remembered is that a lot of people on the forum consistently over-estimate or over-state their own ability or simply have unrealistic expectations of others. It pays to be a little cynical when people tell you how great they are and how nearly everyone else sucks.

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That is one thing I’ve noticed generally when people who complain most about others in chat leave after a wipe or two, we end up clearing on the first pull after they leave.

For as easy and accessible as this game is, people obsess over others being bad way too much. I'd honestly not even listen to them any more.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

That is one thing I’ve noticed generally when people who complain most about others in chat leave after a wipe or two, we end up clearing on the first pull after they leave.

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In my experience, most of the players that have been rude, extremely impatient or nasty to other players in duties have been the ones causing the groups to not perform and the groups did much better without them.
The players that knew what to do and were competent have tended to be more patient and willing to explain mechanics so that those that were having trouble could learn.

Whenever I see situations where one player is just flooding the chat with how "bad" the other players are in the middle of a fight, I often wonder if they realize the irony of them spending all that time typing and not playing while telling others that they are not doing their job.

It can take all sorts of people a few pulls before understanding mechanics. That's just how learning is sometimes.
I don't think anyone really wants to hear the reasons, they'd rather just go again and try to get her done.

Not to belittle the challenged, but as long as you're ready to pick up from a wipe and try again, not much more can be asked.

Don't sweat it. Some people are just impatient assholes who really should be sticking to premade for how much they expect perfection from people completely new to the content.

We can have some bad eggs on our data center, but I pug a lot and for the most part people are pretty chill. When you do get that one asshole, they're usually the one who gets kicked or who ragequits and you find out they were the one really holding everyone back.

If you ever need a healer, look me up! We Jenovans should stick together, after all.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

I have a learning disability, sometimes it takes me few pulls to learn normal raid mechs, I get a bit disheartened when I see people almost bragging or taking joy in kicking "bad" players who have trouble with mechanics, I've experienced this in game before when I was hesitant to tell people that I had a disability, and recently I have started telling people I have a learning disability when I have trouble with content(it took me a few pulls to clear O12 normal I said I had a learning disability and 3 people immediately left then ironically we cleared on the first pull when we had some people join in progress(who if I recall were all new to the fight), I MT'd the fight and was even able to explain the mechanics to the new comers it just seems like there's a lot of people in the XIV community who are quick to leave/kick if there's any sort of issues without being patient or trying to address the problem or trying to understand the people they are partying with.

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It's tough. I don't mind people failing. In fact I encourage it. However, if you repeatedly fail to the same thing over and over, it becomes grating REALLY fast. If you fail once to every single mechanic you're fine in my book, because it's easy to see that progression. Just never make excuses for failing. Own it, and ask questions.

I remember back during God Kefka prog I joined a static that was much more progressed than I was. I died literally to every single mechanic in Clown Kefka. It took maybe 8 pulls for me to clear it (blind), they had it on farm. Every time I failed a mechanic I asked a question. Implemented the answer and moved on.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If you're only interested in a smooth run, you're better off using Party Finder where you control who is added to the group to ensure you get your smooth run.

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^^
Quoted for Truth.

If you Q up via Duty Finder, then you need to accept that there is the possibility you will end up with someone who performs less than optimally for any number of reasons including, but not limited to:

--Age (Older people have slower reaction times, and less alertness in general)
--Disability
--Laziness
--Not knowing their job very well
--Not knowing the dungeon very well
--Fatigue/Sleep Deprivation/etc
--Intoxication
--RL Distractions

If you can't handle these, then you should not be using the Duty Finder, period. If you get a group with a such person, then you either deal with it or leave.

The Duty Finder's primary purpose is to as quickly as possible make a viable match for the dungeon(s) you wish to do. It's not there for you to get "nice smooth timely runs". Many runs will be reasonably fast, but yet there's always those times when you'll get one or more players that aren't performing as well as you'd like them to. But yet such is the gamble you agree to when you click the button.

Don't let those people get you down, OP. It can be disheartening to read/hear, yes, but as long as you do your best (and you sound awesome to me!), screw those guys and do your thing. It's much more healthy to be a decent, kind person, than a top tier extreme raiding trial person after all. I think, from what you say, you have that first, more important part, nailed. Those complainers just need to get their act together to catch up with you and that's much harder than any trial or raid or whatever. :cool:

I've actually got partied with someone who was disabled once in ARF when i was farming tomes for umbrites back in the HW days. Right when we loaded in one of our party members said he was notifying us that he was disabled and can only play one handed. I pretty much shrugged it off because as long as he wasn't causing us to wipe nonstop i didn't really care, and to be honest for a one handed player the kid did amazing. No issues at all he played just like anyone else really. My props go out to that kid as i know if i was one handed i probably wouldn't be able to play without getting hit by probably every other aoe. Anyway there are disabled players and their are players who are bad because they are lazy and don't try. I have no problems with disabled players. It's the lazy ones that make me pretty frustrated.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

I've actually got partied with someone who was disabled once in ARF when i was farming tomes for umbrites back in the HW days. Right when we loaded in one of our party members said he was notifying us that he was disabled and can only play one handed. I pretty much shrugged it off because as long as he wasn't causing us to wipe nonstop i didn't really care, and to be honest for a one handed player the kid did amazing. No issues at all he played just like anyone else really. My props go out to that kid as i know if i was one handed i probably wouldn't be able to play without getting hit by probably every other aoe. Anyway there are disabled players and their are players who are bad because they are lazy and don't try. I have no problems with disabled players. It's the lazy ones that make me pretty frustrated.

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There's a movepad thingie ... don't know the official name but it basically has a yostick on the side which you can use with your thumb and has multiple buttons which you can use with your other fingers.
https://thegadgetflow.com/wp-content...g-Keypad-3.jpg
https://d4kkpd69xt9l7.cloudfront.net...gallery-08.jpg

This one in particular has up to 32 keys and then you have macro support ... combine that with the slow paced action of this game and it's totaly do-able.

Many people use this pad instead of keyboard and then use the mouse for targetting and stuff but I'm pretty sure for people with one hand and with some training they can do it all on this single pad.

I've always been genuinely impressed by the player who overcomes a serious physical disadvantage and puts in the work to make things work for them on their terms. The other player simply accepts the cards are against them and never tries to find a way to stack the deck.

I have met both types of players in this game, though it wasn't my business to be told either way.

I associate with one. "Bad" is a mindset, not merely a result.

I remember seeing someone without arms pull off the HW MCH rotation and burst flawlessly.
Feet only. It was better than I can do on MCH.

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Originally Posted by Fhaerron

snip.

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They are called "gamepads" or "keypads" and are awesome for playing MMOs.
I use one in tandem with a MMO mouse (Razer Orbweaver + Razer Naga) so that I have tons of keys/buttons with my actions mapped to them all within easy reach. My movement and non-attack CDs/abilities are mapped to the gamepad while combos, common attack actions and targeting are on the mouse. They line up incredibly well.

The main ones that I know people use are the Razer Orbweaver, Razer Tartarus and Logitech G13 which appears to have been discontinued.

I also have a disability:

I'm 51.

But seriously, these days if you took ANY kid to a "doctor" they'd find some kind of disability (if you just described symptoms, like trouble in school/being bored.) Then they'd have the kid on meds, nearly instantly.

My take on this is that even if you are disabled you should not be treated like any other player. If you play with one arm then it's up to you to learn how to play with your disability. If you go into a party expecting 7 other players to bend to your handicap then that's not right. They are there to reach a goal different to yours and if you cannot cope with the game with your handicap, then you either need to do easier content or not play the game at all. There are players with disabilities who overcome them well, like that guy on Reddit who played MCH at raid level with his feet, and a member of my static who is better than me and has CP.

That's not to say you can't be kind, many will be compassionate and understanding, but going into a party with that expectation would make you a bad player regardless

I follow the idea that
If it's the DF - nobody should be kicking anyone... if the party isn't to your liking you either leave or plough on.
If it's the PF - you need to take responsibility for yourself. If you can't/won't/don't play how the the group wants you to, you leave and move on.

I'm partially blind and struggled a lot with the Nidhogg fireball phase on Ex. I didn't want to explain to every PF group that "hey I have this issue that's causing me some delay", because it's not something I can change, and I didn't want to get kicked. I joined practice groups only for the last phase, so no one was being misled. With enough muscle memory practice and learning that I could change my camera rotation speed, I cleared it and it has become one of my favorite fights.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It can also be from using an older PC that barely (or perhaps even doesn't) meet minimum system requirements. I would fail Active Time Maneuvers on my old PC that aren't a problem now that I have a new one.

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Those damn things. I broke the fingers of my right hand racing Motocross as a kid now those fingers get mighty stiff then I got to use my left hand to mash the mouse button. This game can be brutal for old folks I tell you what!

Like you OP I stick to the content I know I can do. I main a RDM nice smooth rotations not a ton of button pressing. I run Dungeons, normals, 24man, Point is you do you and screw the rest!

Bad players are people who never bother to learn or improve, even if they know they're bad. I don't think anyone is going to look down on you for having a learning disability. It sounds like you're trying your hardest to be the best player you can be, and that's what matters. Lots of people have trouble learning mechanics, that's why it takes practice. But I understand how you feel about being disheartened in thinking that people are talking about you.

I have some mental health issues that cause me to either zone out completely or hyperfocus on one small detail, which can make it nearly impossible for me to do certain content. And I also have anxiety issues that can cause me to make more mistakes than usual. I just try to do the content that I know I can handle and not worry so much if someone thinks I'm bad, because worrying that much about it would destroy the fun and enjoyment of playing video games.

Okay, I get disabilities are a thing but some people are playing way too much into those. People with performance impacting disabilities are an extremely small minority. 90% of the time, people are performing badly because they are bad.

I wouldn't call someone who only clears normal content neither good or bad. Just... decent. Like you aren't a problem but you aren't deserving of any praise either.

The Ff14 community generally has a fairly shitty attitude around PUGs through the DF, something I haven't seen to the same extent in other MMos i've played. Sadly, after numerous threads about the topic over the years, I've just come to accept it.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

I'm a bit afraid to be posting this because I'm not sure what the reaction will be but... I have a learning disability, sometimes it takes me few pulls to learn normal raid mechs, I get a bit disheartened when I see people almost bragging or taking joy in kicking "bad" players who have trouble with mechanics, I've experienced this in game before when I was hesitant to tell people that I had a disability, and recently I have started telling people I have a learning disability when I have trouble with content(it took me a few pulls to clear O12 normal I said I had a learning disability and 3 people immediately left then ironically we cleared on the first pull when we had some people join in progress(who if I recall were all new to the fight), I MT'd the fight and was even able to explain the mechanics to the new comers it just seems like there's a lot of people in the XIV community who are quick to leave/kick if there's any sort of issues without being patient or trying to address the problem or trying to understand the people they are partying with.

I might not clear savage/ultimate raids but I don't think by any means I'm a bad player I normally run current relevant normal mode content and I keep aggro I've even been trying to push out more DPS when I can(admittedly I do struggle a bit in swapping between hotbars quickly but I think with practice I've gotten better. just because it might take me a little bit longer to learn content and I just kinda get disheartened the way I see people say how many people that play this game are "bad" and it feels like they are talking in part about me. Has anyone here experienced this kind of thing at all?

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Most times, people who talk about kickign baddies is based on experiences of players being bad out of choice. Like Spamming one skill and not doing anythign for mechanics. Not saying there arent people who have learning disabilities who can get swept up in it. That happens. But its not a majority of players, just from a pragmatic position.

That being said, Im not sure how comfortable you are, but you can always tell people to cut you some slack. Be like "Hey, Ive got a slight learning impediment, bear with me on this. It may take me a few tries to get it down." and then be serious about it. If people get all salty over that, they can leave, and theyre just jerks so its no skin off your back. Chances are most players will be like "Ok. Just let us know if you got questions or need help."

Cause frankly, the biggest thing that pisses off a lot of the better higher tier players (the Savage and EX runs) is people going into content and wiping constantly to mechanics but not asking questions or being open to talk. That stuff bugs a lot of people, cause it sometimes (a lot of times) looks like trolling or throwing on purpose.

I been Main job tanking in SB The order I got jobs to 70 was as followed PLD BRD WAR..
I have others now but that was the main order..

In raid content I normally like doing it as my BRD for the 1st clear just so I don't make a fool of myself. This is something my wife does most of the time and she has been main Warrior since 2.

In 4.4 I think it's the 1st content I cleared everything on my tank 1st time thought.
On that note. I have main tanks any of the normal run Raids. My wife does and tell me when to pop cool down and such. She is a much better tank then me.
But Like all content in FFXIV learn the dance. get better at the dance. Change up the dance for EX relearn the new dance.

Duty Finder > quicker most of the time but chance you will get people with no clue.
Party Finder > quality is normally better but harder to find people that can generally just clear with any group or don't care. Also more Rude at times if people do stuff wrong.

But if you build a Party finder group pro tip is built it for loot so people know there will like be 3-4 runs to get there drops sometimes honor keeps people around.

To be honest. As long as people communicate (not this silent tank who refuses to flash even if you asked multiple times) it is fine. Especially with new content it does take me +- 3 runs to understand all mechanics perfectly and somewhat work out the rythm and I am not disabled just human. I like happy endings like every other person and my fave runs are usually the ones where person says ‘sorry I am still learning yada yada’ we run through mechanics, learn and complete. Ironicly my worst runs are with self entitled toxic people than people who genuinely want to *learn*. I hate whole term of calling person ‘bad’. Like for me someone who is learning and is open for advice is definitely not ‘bad’. Bad players are the ones who are gonna leave you there (unless they are in a hurry because work whatever; but they should either communicate to start with or not join any content that may still cause issues), the mute players that refuse to follow mechanics/advice (anything that would make life easier for the team) or the ones verbally toxic.

In your case dear OP. It is not you. It is them. If you still are learning and don’t expect a carry (and it is obvious from your post that you don’t) you have a right to be in any learning party or even duty finder party you wish. Please don’t take to your heart anyone who is mean impatient or just plainly unhelpful. No point in spoiling game (because at the end of the day it is just a game) over this kind of people.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

That's true I should move on, in addition to my disability I also struggle with major depression so I guess the comments/the kicks just end up sticking with me and dragging me down.

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A mmo might be a bad thing to play if you are suffering from depression. Granted the social aspect is what makes mmo so popular at least that is why it's the only game I play. Sorry I can't be more helpful. I do have a younger brother with a disability but he doesn't play video games.

My personal philosophy is to be nice and as accomadating as possible to all players. You never know who is on the other side of the screen. People could have disabilities, illness, personal issues, a multitude of things. They are using this game to feel good, who are you to take that away from them.

I suffer from Depression myself and use this game in a small way to relieve stress; sorta a double edged sword, but what isn't nowadays. But, I always tell people, "it's too much work to be a dick". This is supposed to be an 'ideal' you, so why be a worse version of yourself... or is that a better version... eww.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

I'm a bit afraid to be posting this because I'm not sure what the reaction will be but... I have a learning disability, sometimes it takes me few pulls to learn normal raid mechs, I get a bit disheartened when I see people almost bragging or taking joy in kicking "bad" players who have trouble with mechanics, I've experienced this in game before when I was hesitant to tell people that I had a disability, and recently I have started telling people I have a learning disability when I have trouble with content(it took me a few pulls to clear O12 normal I said I had a learning disability and 3 people immediately left then ironically we cleared on the first pull when we had some people join in progress(who if I recall were all new to the fight), I MT'd the fight and was even able to explain the mechanics to the new comers it just seems like there's a lot of people in the XIV community who are quick to leave/kick if there's any sort of issues without being patient or trying to address the problem or trying to understand the people they are partying with.

I might not clear savage/ultimate raids but I don't think by any means I'm a bad player I normally run current relevant normal mode content and I keep aggro I've even been trying to push out more DPS when I can(admittedly I do struggle a bit in swapping between hotbars quickly but I think with practice I've gotten better. just because it might take me a little bit longer to learn content and I just kinda get disheartened the way I see people say how many people that play this game are "bad" and it feels like they are talking in part about me. Has anyone here experienced this kind of thing at all?

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Same issue.. I completely shy away from doing dps most of the time, because it’s too overwhelming.