"Oh look, they're just buffing Fire 4 again. Like that'll help." - Black mages

Also Black Mages

https://i.imgur.com/R4yKcP9.jpg

The only black mage that would say this is that ice mage you get in duty roulettes. It looks small, but when Fire IV represents the overwhelming majority of your DPS output any small buff to it very quickly adds up.

BLM have get over 700 dps buff during this expansion and ppl still complain.. They are never happy.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

BLM have get over 700 dps buff during this expansion and ppl still complain.. They are never happy.

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Because DPS isnt the problem of the class, us not being optimal for progression is because we dont have a resurrection ability, and resurrections allows a group to see more mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Nhadaly

Because DPS isnt the problem of the class, us not being optimal for progression is because we dont have a resurrection ability, and resurrections allows a group to see more mechanics.

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Progress is not the place for BLM, but after progress it can outclass RDM easily and sometimes even SMN.

I'm just trying to meme here, guys.

BLMs dont meme

Honestly I think BLM is in about as good a spot as the class can get. It will NEVER be a utility class aside from perhaps a Mana Battery every couple minutes. I suppose they could give us BLMs a better Mana Shift, but beyond that what would the class thematically have?

At this point I'm fine with us being the top caster single target DPS (how do SAM and BLM compare on this btw?), top or near top AoE DPS, and have the unique ability of having infinite MP. It also seems like BLM, with the latest buffs, might be making some in-roads into the speed-kill meta (though I'm not 100% sure on what the cutting edge groups are saying currently).

So we don't do progression unless the group is fine with it... meh. I'll take my 30-40k F4 crits and be damn happy. XD

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

At this point I'm fine with us being the top caster single target DPS (how do SAM and BLM compare on this btw?)

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From what i know they are pretty equal at this point (4.4) BLM being ahead slightly

The buffs helped alot more then people think

high dps is needed to progress too .., and blm can probably now replace any dps in the meta, if you just look at its dps numbers..

not all dps need to conrtibute survival, ... and blm is still the best manashifter

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

blm is still the best manashifter

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No it's not. That will be Summoner until they stop having an MP Surplus rotation.

BLM doesn't need/deserve a raise. RDM has one because they combine Black and White Magic, since every FF game ever. SMN has it because of the issue with them stemming off Arcanist. When they retool SCH/SMN in 5.0 and remove classes, there's some potential that SMN will lose Raise. However, keep in mind that most summoners throughout FF series had white magic and could raise too (Rydia, Eiko, Garnet, Yuna).

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

BLM doesn't need/deserve a raise. RDM has one because they combine Black and White Magic, since every FF game ever. SMN has it because of the issue with them stemming off Arcanist. When they retool SCH/SMN in 5.0 and remove classes, there's some potential that SMN will lose Raise. However, keep in mind that most summoners throughout FF series had white magic and could raise too (Rydia, Eiko, Garnet, Yuna).

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You know how Scholars used to get their Esuna at 40 but nothing is there now?

https://i.imgflip.com/2j7uef.jpg

Could move Succor to 40 and Res to 35. As no other DPS class has a raise at low level, doesn't make sense for Arcanist to. If a healer should have it at 30, you could also just pair it with Adlo at 30.

Or move it to the healer Role section.

Said this before, but in my eyes, no I dont feel BLM should get a raise. Its their job to be the real heavy hitters.

They should however, bring the same sort of safety net that SMN/RDM brings.

RDM: Accessible Raises limited by MP regen. Moderate DPS.
SMN: Semi Accessible Raises. High DPS.
BLM: No safety net. Highest DPS.

So as your DPS goes up the accessibility to this safety net diminishes. BLM cant possibly get enough distance from SMN to not need a safety net without breaking the game. All classes that share a role should have access to similar levels of defensive/Recovery utility.

How I think they should change BLM is to let them be a Manapump/Raise assistant. Whenever SMN/RDM using a GCD on raise they are further lowering their DPS, but they also have direct control over the raise. Giving BLM a way to return MP to Healers and help them cast their raise is just a different form of giving BLM raise themselves, while allowing them to stay greedy and no direct access to raise.

If BLMs could have a buff on a short CD (60 seconds, similar to Swiftcast Raise) that would make Spells cost less and cast faster, BLM could have a direct impact on the run and be a valuable safety net. I would however, also have it require a DPS loss to the BLM, so that they arent just getting off with what would cost the other casters an entire GCD. Using an Umbral heart as a requirement would be enough I think.

Confluence:

Target party member's next 3 casts will cost 50% less and have 50% less cast time. Can only be used while under the effect of Umbral Hearts. Removes one Umbral Heart. Duration 10 seconds. Cool down of 60 Seconds.


RDM keeps its raising/healing identity.
SMN keeps its 60 second, least impact on DPS raise.
BLM gets to contribute to recovery of the party.

Lets be real. Black Mages will never get a combat rez. Yoshi P has even said that much. The reason that Black Mages will never.. Ever get a rez is the fact that the lore team and Koji would rise up and slay the Dev team for even suggesting it.

Not keen on the idea of giving BLM more buttons, before even getting to new 5.0 skills.
How about a trait that allows Leylines to buff party members spellspeed at about half the rate?

Also, using the core job mechanic, to facilitate a minor party utility, doesn't seem right at all. Especially when you consider that an umbral heart equates to a Fire IV cast in its main respect, and whether or not you lose the full 300 potency or not, it still doesn't seem like a fair trade off, or one that suits the BLM identity.

You're basically sacrificing a Fire IV cast to give a party member ASTs Lightspeed. That's a big dps trade off for an amazing utility, it's too much in both regards.

No, for utility I think opening up Leylines as a party buff is the best route. It promotes strategic timing and placement of the Leylines, doesn't break it's spellcaster identity, doesn't impact too much on dps cost for beneficial effect, and doesn't add yet more buttons!

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Could move Succor to 40 and Res to 35.

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You still can be scholar in pre level 30 dungeons
so leaving your res till level 35 is a bad idea

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Originally Posted by Duskane

You still can be scholar in pre level 30 dungeons
so leaving your res till level 35 is a bad idea

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"Or move it to the Healer Role category"

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Not keen on the idea of giving BLM more buttons, before even getting to new 5.0 skills.
How about a trait that allows Leylines to buff party members spellspeed at about half the rate?

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A trait for ley lines is a good idea maybe ,
Keeps its regular spell speed effect but its a 15 second ability that will stay up in ley lines aoe , if you step out/ley lines run out still have that 15 seconds left of spell speed buff ,turns ley lines into a spell speed dispenser for BLM.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

No it's not. That will be Summoner until they stop having an MP Surplus rotation.

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there is no situation, where a blm runs out mp..., while smn can (after rezing, after death..)

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

there is no situation, where a blm runs out mp..., while smn can (after rezing, after death..)

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It's not about MP, it's about opportunity. MP shift on demand is costing Black Mage either a Fire 4 in AF or delaying entry into AF during UI.

You need a TCloud proc to manashift without impacting yourself in a major way, where as Summoner can do it at any point during Dreadwyrm, Bahamut, or Ruin 4 procs, or lose 30 potency to do it during a random Ruin 2.

manashitf becomes an issue, mostly during prog (not speedkills), a blm will never have any mp problems, aside of waiting for UI to be back up with Mana ticks..

smn can run into mana issues in prog.., but true, if the fight goes perfect, the smn can usally just instant manashift

still, blm is the safer manashifter imo

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

manashitf becomes an issue, mostly during prog (not speedkills), a blm will never have any mp problems, aside of waiting for UI to be back up with Mana ticks..

smn can run into mana issues in prog.., but true, if the fight goes perfect, the smn can usally just instant manashift

still, blm is the safer manashifter imo

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Smn doesn't have any mana issues unless they just raised 4 people.

At the end of the day, blm can only comfortably shift with MINIMAL loss 1, sometimes 2 gcds every 30 seconds. This will cost about 55 potency if you didn't get a magical t3p during that 1 to 2 gcd window.

Smn can shift for free about 40% of their rotation. If they're inside part of the other 60%, they can just lose 20 potency. Meaning smn can do it at ANY time, it's a coin flip if it lost them anything, if it did it was only 20 potency, and they don't have mana problems unless they're dying or raising nonstop.

The only world where blm would be the best mana shifter, is one where mana shift has zero cd and you could full restore an mp bar if you really needed to.

No sharing Leylines. I don't want other casters or healers chilling in it and getting AoE's baited inside of it. How about an AoE buff called Aetherfont that reduces the party's next 3 weaponskill/spell TP/MP cost by 50%. Instead of their own combat rez, they can at least discount the cost of rez for those that can. DPS can minorly benefit too during heavy AoE situations (which bleed TP dry).

I think BLM is fine. It finally has enough DPS to offset up the little utility, it just hasnt caught on in mass yet.

Well, there's plenty of group who've cleared os12 with a BLM on their first kill so while it might not be the next, it's clearly not a problem anymore unless you really seek the world first clears.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Also, using the core job mechanic, to facilitate a minor party utility, doesn't seem right at all. Especially when you consider that an umbral heart equates to a Fire IV cast in its main respect, and whether or not you lose the full 300 potency or not, it still doesn't seem like a fair trade off, or one that suits the BLM identity.

You're basically sacrificing a Fire IV cast to give a party member ASTs Lightspeed. That's a big dps trade off for an amazing utility, it's too much in both regards.

No, for utility I think opening up Leylines as a party buff is the best route. It promotes strategic timing and placement of the Leylines, doesn't break it's spellcaster identity, doesn't impact too much on dps cost for beneficial effect, and doesn't add yet more buttons!

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You can't say its minor then say itll have too big of a utility impact, while also having too big of a cost. All of those things cant possibly be true.

I think leylines as a party buff is an awful idea in respect to "fixing" BLM utility. People complain that BLM isnt being taken for Prog because they have no recovery potential for the party, unlike SMN/RDM. Leylines would just cause more headache for the BLM, having to dodge additional AoEs and having awkward conversations to ask people to stay out of their leylines during points of the fight. Their Pdps makes up for the Rdps. The only thing BLM is missing is the safety net the other casters have.

Also, in my eyes, Button Bloat is not an issue on BLM. BLM has less active spells than even RDM, even while having Sleep and Freeze on your bar.

In terms of the different casters:

Whenever a RDM casts Verraise he loses a GCD of 240-270 potency, plus a small amount of Black or White mana. He also loses 1/4 of his max MP and does not have an easy way of regaining that mp. He can comfortably do 2 raises without having to ration his MP.

Whenever a SMN casts Ressurection he loses a GCD of 100 potency whenever the spell is cast with swiftcast.He also loses a little over 1/4 of his max MP. He has plenty of tools to regain MP, but whenever he hard casts the full Ressurection spell, he loses 320 potency, on top of being unable to use the cast to pop OGCDs. Truely 8 seconds of no DPS aside from your pets.

Whenever a BLM would cast Confluence he would have to try and weave it to minimize loss from GCD clipping. Probably Swift/Triple casting after the umbral phase. I just tested this and was pretty surprised, but losing 1 Umbral Heart does nothing to your normal rotation. Youll be able to get off 7 Fire Spells either way (8 if you include the Fire III transition.) No more or no less, unless you align it with convert. So the largest tradeoffs would be: Your healers/fellow casters have to be aware of the ability being cast on them. Your ability is worthless if there are no healers alive. DPS loss if the GCD is clipped to use. GCD loss if you use it in combination of convert for the astral phase. Limited to once every 60 seconds. Typically the healer then has to carry the GCD burden/DPS loss (180-250 potency DPS loss per GCD spent.)


I think this does fit into BLM identity. Manipulation of Aether to aid those around you to achieve something WHM is able to do, but in BLMs own way. They are a melting pot of aether and theyd love to just lord it over your head. "Oh healer are you suffering? Try what it feels like to be a Black Mage. Taste the power of the void." Boom. lol

Confluence:

Target party member's next 3 casts will cost 50% less and have 50% less cast time. Can only be used while under the effect of Umbral Hearts. Removes one Umbral Heart. Duration 10 seconds. Cool down of 60 Seconds.


RDM keeps its raising/healing identity.
SMN keeps its 60 second, least impact on DPS raise.
BLM gets to contribute to recovery of the party.

Next people will start to demand melees bring a rez into the party too... I mean, following the logic that blm is bad for prog because it lacks a rez, why not force people to run a permutation of 4 dps containing only RDM and SMN?

Also, call me bad and whatnot, but throwing a manashift after B3 once every two minutes never caused me any problems. Just look at healers' MP during TC phase if in a group with randoms and Shift the healer that needs the mp more.