Removing Gender-locked Poses

When you have your weapon drawn, using the /cpose emote changes your stance for those who don't know. Many of these classes have classic poses, like male Paladins using the Cecil pose (I am told) and male Dragoons using the classic Kain pose, or the Dragoon pose you see every dragoon doing in cutscenes and such. Inversely, Female Paladins get the Lightning pose while female Dragoons get...well, you hold your spear to the side and the spear may or may not touch the ground. I don't know, only level 32 on DRG.

For many people who love screenshots, and with the new updates to /gpose adding more and more functions coming 4.4, I do hope Square Enix moves away from genderlocked poses at least. I know a few dragoons who want the male pose while I know many male DRKs want the female idle pose. Even if it's not added to a /cpose cycle like sitting is (which also shouldn't be divided by gender) the ability to use both gender poses would be nice.

Also, hair. Remove the race only thing and give everyone all hairstyles. It's work I know but. Please?


Uh no clue what to say in conclusion. Uhm. Uh. Kupo?

I posted a similar thread awhile back and got some good traction, and plenty of likes. Hope they take notice. I definitely support this...I for one would love to be able to use the female DRK sword pose. The male is just recycled warrior pose with a greatsword instead of an ax.

You'll get people who will be opposed to this in order to keep some sort of semblance of gender/race identity.

Personally, I'd be down for it. Don't care much if my race has a hairstyle others don't. I feel like races and their respective models are already distinct enough.

I think unlocking poses/hairstyles would help bring more originality to our fairly basic characters.

I'd also like an option to "flip" a hairstyle.

I personally am against this because I don’t like the idea of needing everything being available to everyone. I feel like restrictions/limitations make things a little more interesting. Just my 2 cents though!

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Originally Posted by Badicalde

I personally am against this because I don’t like the idea of needing everything being available to everyone. I feel like restrictions/limitations make things a little more interesting. Just my 2 cents though!

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How does restricting how a character holds a spear interesting? I get having some racial emotes/poses stay to those races, but it's job based poses locked behind gender that's my issue.

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Originally Posted by Hazama999

You'll get people who will be opposed to this in order to keep some sort of semblance of gender/race identity.

Personally, I'd be down for it. Don't care much if my race has a hairstyle others don't. I feel like races and their respective models are already distinct enough.

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The hairstyles were an afterthought honestly, I just really don't like how the poses are. The female DRG pose is just a "wat" for me personally, since I'm preparing to level dragoon after I hit 70 on AST.

Male Roe alrdy with bunny suit, now also doing cat girl emote with a side of kisses..

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Originally Posted by vigioX-Sun

Male Roe alrdy with bunny suit, now also doing cat girl emote with a side of kisses..

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Sounds like heaven, doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by vigioX-Sun

Male Roe alrdy with bunny suit, now also doing cat girl emote with a side of kisses..

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I was specifically talking about the job idle poses...but whatever floats your boat!

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Originally Posted by Badicalde

I personally am against this because I don’t like the idea of needing everything being available to everyone. I feel like restrictions/limitations make things a little more interesting. Just my 2 cents though!

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To be fair, there's already plenty racial emotw locks but they make sense because they match the proportions and/or race of character. For example, lalas are the only ones who sit while dangling their feet because, well, they're so short, their feet can't touch the ground. Other emotes are based on racial mannerisms (I'll have to go ingame to take an example since I'm at work).

The cposes are mostly based on characters from various FF series. If you want to argue "Cloud was a guy so only male chrs are allowed to do his pose", then one should also argue that "Only Cloud should be allowed to do the Cloud pose because Cloud doesn't exist in game". Doesn't make sense, right? Neither does the former quote.

Yes. the female pose for Dark Knight looks better than the male one in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Xion136

female Dragoons get...well, you hold your spear to the side and the spear may or may not touch the ground.

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I like the female dragoon pose. It’s a good ‘dramatic pose’.

And I’ve never seen the spear not touch the ground. Maybe there are issues with different height characters or unusual weapons - I know there’s one you can get that’s more like a club than a lance, not sure what was going on there but I’m guessing it doesn’t play nicely with the idle stance.

I have been asking for this since the patch where we got the new idle poses. Makes no sense that because I'm a girl I can't do THE dragoon pose. I hate the stupid pose they gave us girls.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I’ve never seen the spear not touch the ground. Maybe there are issues with different height characters or unusual weapons - I know there’s one you can get that’s more like a club than a lance, not sure what was going on there but I’m guessing it doesn’t play nicely with the idle stance.

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It depends on race and the spear. I've seen it happen before, and with some models its worst than others.

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Originally Posted by Hazama999

You'll get people who will be opposed to this in order to keep some sort of semblance of gender/race identity.

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Just let players establish their own identity. More cosmetic diversity is always a good thing.

i support this! the more idle poses available the better, and i like how most of the male poses are more "casual" than the female ones.

Not goin lie, I didn't even notice that the 2 gender had different idol poses till about a year ago.

Still good luck and all but me personally not really a big deal but good luck non the less.

Gender locking job poses is a real head-scratcher to me. Why can't chicks do the classic Dragoon pose? Why can't I do the female MNK pose? Just doesn't make sense.

True customization is players choosing how to express themselves from many options. It'd be great if the job pose restrictions were lifted.

I think this would be a reasonable idea. FFXIV has already shredded more or less whatever scraps of immersion once existed within the game world; if we're already allowing bikini-clad 'tanks' in dungeons, why not?

That said, my real preference would be for SE to significantly clamp down on people's freedoms and restore far more uniqueness and immersion to the game world. This would include keeping gender- and job-specific emotes, job- and role-specific gearing options, gender-specific gearing options, and completely eliminating the ability to wear 'universal' (i.e. non-Role) Glamours within instances. I just think SE should be consistent, and as long as they've gone so far down this path - with no signs of a reversal - they may as well go all the way.

Edit / Aside:

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

True customization is players choosing how to express themselves from many options. It'd be great if the job pose restrictions were lifted.

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A couple of notes here, explaining why I don't share the opinions of many in this thread.

Firstly, I think we already do have the ability to express ourselves in many different ways. I think we've had the ability to do so from the very beginning of the game. Just how much is enough is very subjective. I also take issue with the notion of 'true' customization; customization is customization. Whether it's as basic as the options presented to us in the character creator, or a version of FFXIV that offered complete and immediate access to any Glamour, hairstyle, or pose we want, doesn't make the customization more or less 'true'.

Secondly, speaking personally, I prefer more constrained systems. As an example, when I'm getting sick of a particular look and wanting to shake things up with a new Glamour, I get almost immediately overwhelmed by the dizzying array of options presented to me. If there were pages of /pose commands available to me, I'd almost certainly ignore them, simply because it's too much. I realize this is definitely an 'agree to disagree' type of perspective, and I certainly don't begrudge players for advocating - and generally receiving - their desired options within FFXIV. But still.

Finally, from my perspective, the relatively unfettered access to gear options in FFXIV makes achieving a great Glamour, character look, or screenshot, feel significantly less rewarding. They're so easy to come by, and the mechanics are all built-in! If I come across a cute pair of pants that I like, all it takes is a quick trip to the Marketboard to find a complementary top, which is usually quite affordable. Contrast this with FFXI pre-Glamour, where I spent significant amounts of time working for gear that was (a) functional, (b) looked nice, and (c) complemented my other gear pieces. When I finally settled on a look, I felt a strong sense of pride in what I had created, which is something that has almost never happened in XIV.

TL; DR: I don't think there's any 'true' concept of customization, and more options does not always equate to a better experience for people.

I think some of it also comes from the ideas of 'masculine' vs 'feminine.' In terms of the DRK pose, which seems to be the most brought up example, it appears 'more manly' to have a massive sword slung over the shoulder, held with one hand. It's a display of strength. For a female, having it downward in the ground held with both hands is less aggressive (as in, "manly") and more defensive. To be honest, the male pose (as boring as it seems, and yes it's Cloud's) makes a dark knight look aggressive and dangerous, while the female pose puts emphasis on the 'knightly' or 'defensive' ("Tank") side of it.

That said, the ideas of masculine vs feminine have gone out the door since they gave the bunny suit to males. I don't see a point of gender-locks on job specific poses, as long as it stays to the job.

I don't really see a reason not to allow these cpose changes, but it also doesn't really matter to me either way. I would actually like to see more cposes added all the way around.

Hairstyles are kind of similar to some of the gear that is locked whereas some of them make sense to have locked, while others don't make any sense at all. For example, a lot of Miqo'te hairstyles are only going to look good on them because their facial structures and ears are taken into account when designing them. However, most-if not all of the race exclusive ponytails can be worn by all races and look just fine.

I think using practicality and aesthetics as determining factors as to what to lock and not have locked complicates things, but the current character customization is reflective of an old school console game rather than a moderate mmo. Updating this and tossing out a free fantasia to everyone would be one helluvan ace SE could use to make everyone say, "THANK YOU SE!!!"

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Originally Posted by Kidria

I think some of it also comes from the ideas of 'masculine' vs 'feminine.' In terms of the DRK pose, which seems to be the most brought up example, it appears 'more manly' to have a massive sword slung over the shoulder, held with one hand. It's a display of strength. For a female, having it downward in the ground held with both hands is less aggressive (as in, "manly") and more defensive. To be honest, the male pose (as boring as it seems, and yes it's Cloud's) makes a dark knight look aggressive and dangerous, while the female pose puts emphasis on the 'knightly' or 'defensive' ("Tank") side of it.

That said, the ideas of masculine vs feminine have gone out the door since they gave the bunny suit to males. I don't see a point of gender-locks on job specific poses, as long as it stays to the job.

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I understand the want for masculine/feminine, I do. The Red Mage at ready poses are a good example of the same intent but expressed differently. The dragoon ones don't have the same intent and it then locks out female DRGs from an iconic pose. Even PLD gives an iconic pose in the Lightning stance - which still doesn't stop me from wanting Cecil's.

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Originally Posted by Novaslayer

Not goin lie, I didn't even notice that the 2 gender had different idol poses till about a year ago.

Still good luck and all but me personally not really a big deal but good luck non the less.

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For me, it's a big deal because I love screenshots and well, for me - more options means more screenshots!

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Originally Posted by Xion136

For me, it's a big deal because I love screenshots and well, for me - more options means more screenshots!

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If screenshots are your thing, improvisation might help. For example the DRK victory pose will have even the females rest their blade on their shoulder in a similar fashion to the male's unsheathed idle stance:

https://i.imgur.com/Hzgo1ZM.jpg

Play around a bit and see if you can discover more!

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Originally Posted by Iscah

And I’ve never seen the spear not touch the ground. Maybe there are issues with different height characters or unusual weapons - I know there’s one you can get that’s more like a club than a lance, not sure what was going on there but I’m guessing it doesn’t play nicely with the idle stance.

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If you look at some of the lower level weapons, they don’t touch the floor even with a short character. I believe the Weathered Spear is for sure one that does this, as well as one you get around the level 10~15 range. I play on max shortness Miqo’te, which is pretty short, so I honesty think it’s lazy modeling as opposed to character height. Especially since weapons scale with your character’s size generally.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

If screenshots are your thing, improvisation might help. For example the DRK victory pose will have even the females rest their blade on their shoulder in a similar fashion to the male's unsheathed idle stance:

https://i.imgur.com/Hzgo1ZM.jpg

Play around a bit and see if you can discover more!

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I've done a lot of posing to see what I can do xD was taking screenshots for a friend on my Raen, the Au Ra /pose is fantastic for showing off dresses (was in the than wool dress). My issue is coming up to DRG 50 is I'm locked out of the Iconic Dragoon pose due to my characters gender - which is my catalsyt. And no poses let makes use the female idle pose for DRK too :c

Trying to up my screenshot game is hard when I can't make my visions without finagling things x.x

The one thing I miss about having a female avatar is that DRG pose. I liked it as a dynamic pose.

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Originally Posted by Hazama999

You'll get people who will be opposed to this in order to keep some sort of semblance of gender/race identity.

Personally, I'd be down for it. Don't care much if my race has a hairstyle others don't. I feel like races and their respective models are already distinct enough.

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That argument fails to hold water because there's literally no reason why only female Miqo'te can stand with one heel off the ground. That applies to literally any emote with an animation restricted by race or gender that doesn't involve something specific to that race such as male Miqo'te wiggling their ears when using /joy. That being locked to males of the race makes no sense as they're not the only ones with ears.

In regards to hair, literally every race has hair and racial identity comes from the characteristics exclusive to that race such as Au Ra having scales.

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Originally Posted by Badicalde

I personally am against this because I don’t like the idea of needing everything being available to everyone. I feel like restrictions/limitations make things a little more interesting. Just my 2 cents though!

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Limitations do the opposite of that though.

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Originally Posted by Macleod

I posted a similar thread awhile back and got some good traction, and plenty of likes. Hope they take notice. I definitely support this...I for one would love to be able to use the female DRK sword pose. The male is just recycled warrior pose with a greatsword instead of an ax.

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It's actually meant to be Cloud's pose from FFVII.

If I'm a miqo, I've always wanted to sit in that doggy position guy Miqotes sit in lol. Yes to this and the hairs!

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Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

That argument fails to hold water because there's literally no reason why only female Miqo'te can stand with one heel off the ground. That applies to literally any emote with an animation restricted by race or gender that doesn't involve something specific to that race such as male Miqo'te wiggling their ears when using /joy. That being locked to males of the race makes no sense as they're not the only ones with ears.

In regards to hair, literally every race has hair and racial identity comes from the characteristics exclusive to that race such as Au Ra having scales.



Limitations do the opposite of that though.

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I'm not entirely sure why you replied to me. I'm for unlocking gender/race-locked gear and I understand the limitations of the arguments against it.

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Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

That argument fails to hold water because there's literally no reason why only female Miqo'te can stand with one heel off the ground. That applies to literally any emote with an animation restricted by race or gender that doesn't involve something specific to that race such as male Miqo'te wiggling their ears when using /joy. That being locked to males of the race makes no sense as they're not the only ones with ears.

In regards to hair, literally every race has hair and racial identity comes from the characteristics exclusive to that race such as Au Ra having scales.

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In fairness, not every restriction must, nor even should, arise out of a sense of realism. I think the gender-based restrictions are fairly objectively bad (at least given the lore behind races that we currently have), but racial ones help to inform the identity of that race. Miqo'te, as an example, are modeled off FFXI's Mithra, and from a lore standpoint, they're quite aware of their sexuality, and know how to play off this. For that race, 'sexier' sorts of poses are natural, because they've been raised with them. Elezen (Elvaan from FFXI), on the other hand, have absolutely no such racial awareness of their sexuality in either game. Their racial poses almost certainly shouldn't seem intentionally sexy, because it doesn't fit the racial lore.

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Originally Posted by Hazama999

I'm for unlocking gender/race-locked gear and I understand the limitations of the arguments against it.

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I don't think the arguments are limited, per se - I just think they're different. Personally I think XIV should be consistent first and foremost: if they're going to aim for an immersive experience, aim for it. If they're not (and they aren't), then open the floodgates on options without worrying about any impact. That said, there is an impact.

The impact becomes clear to me in examining the different ways I engage with FFXI and FFXIV (well, engaged* for FFXI). In FFXI, I paid attention to people's looks and races. An unusual look might mean particularly exotic gear I hadn't really come across before, perhaps an option for my own character. A Tarutaru meant a less tanky PLD, but one that was ultimately able to handle a higher level of their own healing. So on and so forth.

In FFXIV? I don't really pay attention to other players at all. I don't really notice their race. I certainly don't give a fig about their Glamour. It's all too jumbled-together, too meaningless for me to care. In requesting more and more options for customization, the people who (presumably) are most interested in putting their identity out into greater Eorzea have ironically caused me to simply not pay any attention at all to the efforts.

Obviously this is dependent on the player, but it's worth keeping in mind. I don't begrudge any player their enjoyment in XIV, and I'm glad everyone's having fun with the Glamours and the poses, and wanting more options. That's great - it means a healthier FFXIV. But there are players out there like me, too, who simply throw up their hands at the resulting chaos, and tune out entirely as a result.

Kind of glad I don't play dragoon because I would be salty as hell to not be able to do THE dragoon pose. Also salty at paladin being relegated to Lightning instead of the iconic Cecil.

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Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev

but racial ones help to inform the identity of that race. Miqo'te, as an example, are modeled off FFXI's Mithra, and from a lore standpoint, they're quite aware of their sexuality, and know how to play off this. For that race, 'sexier' sorts of poses are natural, because they've been raised with them. Elezen (Elvaan from FFXI), on the other hand, have absolutely no such racial awareness of their sexuality in either game. Their racial poses almost certainly shouldn't seem intentionally sexy, because it doesn't fit the racial lore.

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Perhaps, but only if you ignore the individual for the sake of racial identity. While you would expect a Miqo'te to use a sexy pose, that doesn't mean all Miqo'te would be using that exact pose all of the time. It would actually be pretty jarring. Personally I also find it bland when a character's race fully defines them. While FF14 isn't necessarily guilty of this when it comes to race poses since we have change pose with a few options, I don't think any of the poses actually draw connections to the race using them for me. I think you need some kind of adherence to realism (in this case, with every race being more or less human, there is no reason why one race couldn't imitate another's idle poses) or you end up breaking immersion.

There are other factors too, like development time. The dev's can't give us an infinite set of poses. However when you just have one or two stances as we do with job quests, it becomes harder not to break the 4th wall.

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The impact becomes clear to me in examining the different ways I engage with FFXI and FFXIV (well, engaged* for FFXI). In FFXI, I paid attention to people's looks and races. An unusual look might mean particularly exotic gear I hadn't really come across before, perhaps an option for my own character. A Tarutaru meant a less tanky PLD, but one that was ultimately able to handle a higher level of their own healing. So on and so forth.

In FFXIV? I don't really pay attention to other players at all. I don't really notice their race. I certainly don't give a fig about their Glamour. It's all too jumbled-together, too meaningless for me to care. In requesting more and more options for customization, the people who (presumably) are most interested in putting their identity out into greater Eorzea have ironically caused me to simply not pay any attention at all to the efforts.

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Your opinions are your own, but I'm having trouble working out your reasoning. How can't you notice a player's race in FF14? It's probably safe to say that confusing a Roegadyn for a Lalafell is impossible. Miqo, Hyur, and Aura are a little less distinct but have pretty obvious tells. When it comes to gear, FF14 shouldn't be very different from what you describe. An usual look might very well mean exotic gear that you've never come across which may or may not be an option for your character. I would also expect increased variety to give you more of those moments where something catches your eyes. When a class is limited wearing class armor, that immediately negates a large number of visual combinations. Maybe I misunderstood what you're saying?

I would like to change to the male pose for this simple reason. I find it very uncomfortable that the spear is in the air!

https://imgur.com/cocWcHm.png

I just want to say, I like most of the poses. But here's the thing: why the hell can't I have my character idle like a male WHM instead of the female? Like, I hate it when my white mage holds her cane with both hands and does a cute little pose. I like to think of myself as an extremely aggressive healer, and the male idle pose would get this idea across a lot better than the female one. That being said, a lot of the female ones are absolutely badass, so not allowing guys to see them on their characters just because they're guys is weird to me. I think the fem dragoon pose would look awesome on a male character, even if they just adjusted the pose slightly.

Also, DRKs pose should be universal. That sword-in-the-ground pose I've seen male characters do in MANY games and I think it looks a lot more badass than anything like clouds resting pose he's seen in all the art as having. (might also be because Cloud isn't my favorite character from FF7, who knows. My point still stands).

In fact, what I think they should do is not just allow characters of any sex pose with the two current ones, I think they should add one more option to every job. Make some of them less "idle" and maybe like "practice" make the monks sit there pretending to box like Zell from FF8 (yes I know there's a "spar" emote) or meditate. Make Ninjas sit there doing like practice slices in the air.

I like the female DRG pose... the breathing animation alone makes it worth wild. Like have you SEEN it? So good.