What's the point of always "changing" the tomestones?

It's been years now, we get it. At this point why bother changing the names? At least they stopped on Poetics, but shuffling around the others serves no purpose.

If they aren't going to inherently change the system, just name them 3 things and move on. The name changes now have served no purpose whatsoever.

We have Poetics for all the old gear, and 2 other types for the middle and max. So next expansion is Poetics just going to cover 50-70? Are they going to add a 4th set of tomestones at once so it's Poetics 50-60, Something 70, and New things x2 at 80? Or are they just going to continue the cycle of 3 tomestones?

As the game is now why not just settle into the 3 tomestones and leave the names alone?

- Poetics = Old stuff
- Something = New stuff 2000 cap
- Something else = New stuff 450 cap.

And just never change it again cause we are already stuck in the same gameplay loop for the last 5 years. Giving it a new name doesn't change anything and at this point it is a joke.

Yeah, it really makes no sense to me either as they always end up converting the tiers to the newly-named stones. I've decided SE just likes to make things overly complicated for no good reason.

It's called a rat race for a reason

I guess the transition phase might be a consideration, like if the new gear was going to use an existing tome you could buy 2K worth right from the start. So switching to a new tome makes everybody start at zero again for a new tier and they control your pacing a bit that way.

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Originally Posted by Rangar

It's called a rat race for a reason

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But the race wouldn't change at all. You'd still be grinding out 3 sets of tomes, they'd just stop wasting their time renaming the tiers every 6 months.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

I guess the transition phase might be a consideration, like if the new gear was going to use an existing tome you could buy 2K worth right from the start. So switching to a new tome makes everybody start at zero again for a new tier and they control your pacing a bit that way.

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The transition would make sense, at least when viewing it from SE's eyes. I get that SE wants to keep everyone at the same progress level, but it really wouldn't hurt to come into a patch 2 weeks ahead of the game had you been stockpiling your tomes.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

But the race wouldn't change at all. You'd still be grinding out 3 sets of tomes, they'd just stop wasting their time renaming the tiers every 6 months.

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No, because as was already said, anyone saving up would be able to buy 2k worth of gear at 6am or whenever the servers go up. They already trickle our content to make sure we're being strung along, being able to save up 2k tomes skips ~5 weeks of grinding.

They don't want you storing "Something else" to 2000 when they release the new gear so you can buy things immediately. Other games got around this by simply converting them to the lesser currency automatically.

The SB stuff will be changed to poetics when the new expansion comes out. They don't care about poetics because it's not the new "gear" and there's no way to jump ahead of someone like someone storing 2000 can, vs someone who has only 100 since you can grind it uncapped.

They would be 3+ weeks ahead and there would be some metagaming involved on how to save the currency before the patch comes out, etc. (i.e Resub a couple weeks before gear reset to cap every week to get to 2000)

Forcing the transition makes everyone reset properly since they don't seem to have a method to do it automatically.

It's probably out of habits. Like, we call it "creation gear" or "mendacity gear". Well, for that to stay as it is for the whole expansion, they need to shift the tomestones and get new names.
It's also a good psychological game design tool to reinforce the feeling of progression. "New name = new stuff".

So, while it doesn't really have any gameplay reasons, it still has some perks of its own. And since it's probably quite easy for them to do, might as well keep it.

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Originally Posted by zeth07

It's been years now, we get it. At this point why bother changing the names? At least they stopped on Poetics, but shuffling around the others serves no purpose.

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It does serve a purpose - or two actually - to change around the tomestones on a regular basis.

First of all it makes sure people can't save up to buy the latest and greatest gear - they have to earn the new tomestone currency first.
Secondly it makes the older stuff easier to obtain after a change, since it will then be easier to obtain the needed tomestones.

Note that there are actually 4 types of tomestones in the game. Poetics for the old stuff now, and 3 types for level-cap gear. One of the types can't be earned anymore, but can be exchanged (at a lousy rate) for newer tomestones. That obsolete type will then be removed completely when the next tier is introduced.

But really, the only actual problem with them introducing new types of tomestones on a regular basis is that someone has to come up with a name for the new type - and that is a problem for the developers, not for us players

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

I guess the transition phase might be a consideration, like if the new gear was going to use an existing tome you could buy 2K worth right from the start. So switching to a new tome makes everybody start at zero again for a new tier and they control your pacing a bit that way.

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This is the only reason. However it would have been nicer to leave each tomes for each major patch (2.x, 3.x, 4.x) separate so that they could separate the dungeon and roulette rewards so people don't spam MSQ/POTD for poetics for HW gear. Like I get why they fold it in (one less currency to deal with) but perhaps it's time to just make a permanent currency that only buys the retired gear and set a cap on the number based on MSQ progress (Eg 2000, 3000, 4000.)

It's just to reset progress so no one has a headstart

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

This is the only reason. However it would have been nicer to leave each tomes for each major patch (2.x, 3.x, 4.x) separate so that they could separate the dungeon and roulette rewards so people don't spam MSQ/POTD for poetics for HW gear. Like I get why they fold it in (one less currency to deal with) but perhaps it's time to just make a permanent currency that only buys the retired gear and set a cap on the number based on MSQ progress (Eg 2000, 3000, 4000.)

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Yeah, that is weird, but I think there is a reason for it. A couple of expansions down the road, it will start to get untidy. That's my best guess anyway.

It seems like there’d be a pretty long list of different types at this point, if they didn’t remove them over time.

Having everything bought with poetics just makes it easier - for catching up as well as for the amount of currencies. I was able to start purchasing Shire gear as soon as I arrived in Idyllshire, because I’d saved up poetics over the course of playing Heavensward. If it remained locked behind its original price, I assume I’d have to wait until I unlocked the endgame dungeons to start earning the relevant tomes.


Also, a question since this is the first time I’ve been at endgame for a “tome changeover”, is there any difference in the price when they’re converted? Does an item that cost 100 creation now cost 100 poetics, and the number of tones transfer over? Or do I want to be spending all my creation tomes before the structure changes?

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

The transition would make sense, at least when viewing it from SE's eyes. I get that SE wants to keep everyone at the same progress level, but it really wouldn't hurt to come into a patch 2 weeks ahead of the game had you been stockpiling your tomes.

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It wouldn't be a two week head start, some jobs would have almost their full tome gear the day the patch dropped. For example, DRG bis requires Helm, Body and three accessories. That totals to a cost of 2,445 Mendacity. That's my entire tome set finished on week one unless I opt to grab the tome weapon and wait two weeks on accessories.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

I guess the transition phase might be a consideration, like if the new gear was going to use an existing tome you could buy 2K worth right from the start. So switching to a new tome makes everybody start at zero again for a new tier and they control your pacing a bit that way.

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Hm, they can implement that you need 2000 tomestones to unlock the new tier.
Now everyone not saving up is screwed, but well.. pick your poison. ^^

The point? People not unsub.

The two tomestone alternative would be (Uncapped Tomestone) and (Capped Tomestone), and at each even patch the following would happen:

Uncapped Tomestone quantity = Uncapped Tomestone quantity / 4 + Capped Tomestone quantity
Capped Tomestone quantity = 0

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

I guess the transition phase might be a consideration, like if the new gear was going to use an existing tome you could buy 2K worth right from the start. So switching to a new tome makes everybody start at zero again for a new tier and they control your pacing a bit that way.

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They should put the cap at the vendor end to be honest.

Let us gather 2000 tomes, but the vendor won't sell to us till next week once we hit 450 tomes. Would even open the door to splitting the vendors so we can have separate caps for Fending, Striking, Casting, etc.

If I read correctly the OP, he is complaining that changing the tomestone names does not change anything, and for this reason the tomestone names must be changed ?

http://www.mun.ca/sgs/studentblog/wp...mind-blown.png

or just make it really simple and warn players that stored currency will be reset after maintenance. This way they can always keep the same names.

I did read somewhere on reddit that the names are in relation with the big boss of the moment. For example mendacity are tied to Kefka for obvious reasons. I didn't bother to check all the others names to see if it is a valid theory though.

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

I did read somewhere on reddit that the names are in relation with the big boss of the moment. For example mendacity are tied to Kefka for obvious reasons. I didn't bother to check all the others names to see if it is a valid theory though.

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I saw that which obviously hints that we'll have FF7 bosses in Alphascape :/ much disappointment

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Also, a question since this is the first time I’ve been at endgame for a “tome changeover”, is there any difference in the price when they’re converted? Does an item that cost 100 creation now cost 100 poetics, and the number of tones transfer over? Or do I want to be spending all my creation tomes before the structure changes?

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The creation gear wont go over to poetics(its still level 70 just weaker then the newer alternatives - poetics is for previous cap levels gear). It will most likely show up on the centurio seals vendor(check the vendor at the forgotten knight for an idea of price). Crafting mats will probly transfer to mendacity but at a discount(likely with newer mats showing up for the new recipes as well). Mendacity gear will still be mendacity gear, but youll be able to earn the tomes more quickly and with no more 450 per week limit so you can gear up to that level faster. Creation tomes will no longer buy anything(or come from anything). When you log in on patch day youll have as many of them as you did when you logged out previously. They become orphaned without a use, though youll be able to trade them in 4-1 for mendacity until they get removed(probly 5.0). Whether to spend all your creation pre-patch or horde them up for an extra mendacity boost is a personal choice. As a crafter ill probly horde mine(being more or less done with the current tier of crafting stuff), but im also only a single-class fighter so gear doesnt take as many tomes for me. After the patch anything that currently pays Creation will swap to paying Mendacity(in the same amounts), and likewise current Mendacity payouts will swap to the new Genesis(so same payouts, but new/swapped names). And you didnt ask, but the Genesis tomes will buy 390 gear at the same prices as the mendacity set is now(the weapon also requiring 6 or 7 weeks of clearing alpha 4) with the 450/wk earning limit holding back a quick gearup.

One thing I've always been curious about, why is it 450? Why not 500? (or why not 400 for that matter...). I doubt we'll ever get an answer for sure, maybe it's just because it's equivalent to running expert 5 times (with daily bonus).

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

One thing I've always been curious about, why is it 450? Why not 500? (or why not 400 for that matter...). I doubt we'll ever get an answer for sure, maybe it's just because it's equivalent to running expert 5 times (with daily bonus).

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Sometimes you're like 5-50 short of buying a piece so you have to wait until next week. Probably that, :(

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

One thing I've always been curious about, why is it 450? Why not 500? (or why not 400 for that matter...). I doubt we'll ever get an answer for sure, maybe it's just because it's equivalent to running expert 5 times (with daily bonus).

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it's not 500 because they do not want you to be able to buy a small left side piece per week. it's not 400 because they want you to be able to get a large left side piece after 2 weeks. the tomestone cap and the cost of the items are closely related so that players can only get the amount of gear per week that they want us to get.

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

I did read somewhere on reddit that the names are in relation with the big boss of the moment. For example mendacity are tied to Kefka for obvious reasons. I didn't bother to check all the others names to see if it is a valid theory though.

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If Tomestones of Creation and Tomestones of Verity were the respective endgame tomes for 3.0 and 2.0, I would say you were onto something here, but each of those were introduced post 4.0 iirc.

It also creates an artificial sense of "newness". If we are just constantly grinding out the same tome it would become more stale on a psychological level. By simply renaming the tomes they are giving us a "new" reward to work toward. We me know on the surface that it's just another tome but on an unconscious level we are seeking a new and better reward. It's a little jedi mind trick that games use to keep the same ol same ol seem fresh.

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

I did read somewhere on reddit that the names are in relation with the big boss of the moment. For example mendacity are tied to Kefka for obvious reasons. I didn't bother to check all the others names to see if it is a valid theory though.

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Esoterics = The Manipulator
Lore = Brute Justice
Scripture = Alexander
Creation = Exdeath
Mendacity = Kefka
Genesis = ???

It's really loose in HW but kinda fits in SB

Especially if the leaks for the final raid boss hold true. That one's actually the MOST fitting

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

Reason: WHY IS THE SPOILER BOX /HB? THAT'S DUMB, SE

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I think that’s to do with the forum coding, not a decision by SE. I’ve been on other forums that use this square-bracket formatting code that also used the HB spoiler tags. I’m not certain what it stands for. Hidden Box perhaps?

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

it would have been nicer to leave each tomes for each major patch (2.x, 3.x, 4.x) separate so that they could separate the dungeon and roulette rewards so people don't spam MSQ/POTD for poetics for HW gear.

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Consider a few possibilities:

1) Each expansion has its own tomes, and rewards are based on the content you're running: Would there be enough demand for Poetics to keep the queues moving for ARR dungeons? Would there be enough demand for Scripture to keep the queues moving for HW dungeons? If one or the other type of old tomestones aren't considered desirable enough to level 70 players, it could be hard to ensure all the MSQ required instances are accessible to new players.

2) Each expansion has its own tomes, while rewards are in the tomes suited to your current level: It would get level 70 players into old dungeons well enough, so avoids the problem of dead content roadblocks, but what about when those players actually want the ARR/HW tome gear for glamour? They'd need some other way of getting it.

3) Each expansion has its own tomes, and rewards include all of them up to your current level: Extrapolate out a couple more expansions into the future, and 6.0 players would be getting tomes for 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0, and either one or maybe a couple tiers of 6.0 tomes at once for each dungeon run. Do they really deserve five or six times the rewards that an on-level player would get just because the game doesn't know which gear they're trying to grind for?

The one they ended up choosing is kind of like option 3 there, except that by combining everything below the current expansion into one, they're keeping the total rewards for a run at a more reasonable level.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

If I read correctly the OP, he is complaining that changing the tomestone names does not change anything, and for this reason the tomestone names must be changed ?

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How did you possibly work it out that way? I'm saying to stop changing it because it doesn't matter.

"why not just settle into the 3 tomestones and leave the names alone"

Reading is hard.