SMN and instant pet abilities

Simple question. When can we expect summoners to receive the same QOL fix scholars received for both pvp and pve. As of right now even though summoners are in a good place, pet AI is still horrendous and needs to be adjusted. It simply makes the class more clunky and unfun to play currently.

I stopped playing this class due to this. Even when you think you understand it and have the timing down, you don't.

Is it really that bad? I mean I wouldn't say it was "horrendous" nor does any issues prevent me from playing the job optimally or even just for fun, so to each their own I guess. SE don't believe SMN needs the same QoL treatment as SCH, so I wouldn't expect any changes any time soon unless many players start to complain about it all at once.... which seldom happens.

It most definitely is playable but it doesn’t mean a QOL change isn’t needed. Currently everything the pet does which is termed “instant” tends to have a 3-5 second delay depending what the pet wants to do. Considering SE had the technology to make this happen I’m surprised it hasn’t been done yet.

It could be a latency, global cooldown issue or your pet being otherwise preoccupied at the time of you trying to direct it's next action. Trying to using actions back to back manually can also cause the pet to act unresponsively.
In the end though, the difference is SMN only has one pet action that has casting time and that's Wind Blade (or Gust for ACN equivalent), SCH meanwhile has Embrace on both fairies so being able to interrupt them is more important and isn't necessary for SMN.... unless they make Wind Blade/Gust insta but then it wouldn't be a caster-type pet.

I think the main "problem" is that for some oGCDs, basically you are not casting the action but asking the pet to cast it (namely Enkindle and Aetherpact) which induces that delay. The fix should address this for these two actions I think.
But in any way, when playing on Obey and binding the pet actions as your own spells, there are still delays that make it hard to handle in intense moments (the opener for instance) and when you are "aiming" them (trying to put the Contagion debuff when you want it).

I guess the problem is in the priority of actions, and compared to SCH, the animation locks of pet auto-attacks. I'm not sure it can be as "easily" fixed as Scholar, sadly.

Given the fix would have to be slightly different I do believe SE would be able to do it based off of what they were able to do for SCH. Right now using Garuda is more difficult than it should be due to these delays. The fact that SMN needs to account for pet delays for certain actions yet other classes don’t creates a disadvantage to the class. This is also very apparent in pvp which each class gets a set number of skills and pet actions count towards that number.

It is horrendous, sometimes devotion doesn't even go off even though the cooldown is still used, on top of a lot of other pet issues that have still been in the game for YEARS.

Nobody was crying for scholar fairy changes, people wanted SMN pet changes to the ai to make the class feel better and we get nothing.

It's one of the main reasons I was forced to switch to rdm, stupid pet, clunky ai, aggros everything, does whatever it wants even on obey, it's just bad programming.

SE can design crazy bosses but they can't even code a pet ai ? the class is clunky and anyone who disagrees has very low experience with the class.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

It is horrendous, sometimes devotion doesn't even go off even though the cooldown is still used, on top of a lot of other pet issues that have still been in the game for YEARS.

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Some pet abilities cannot be used back to back (i.e. double weaved) as they have a separate GCD timer from player GCD timer, this can sometimes cause actions to not go off correctly even though they are on cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

Nobody was crying for scholar fairy changes, people wanted SMN pet changes to the ai to make the class feel better and we get nothing.

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Actually players DID ask for SCH fairy to have changes, just because you don't see tones of threads about it doesn't mean it wasn't requested at all.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

the class is clunky and anyone who disagrees has very low experience with the class.

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That's your own experience and opinion. It's ignorant to claim that because no one else has as many issues as you, they have "low experience with the class". Example I've been playing since ACN/SMN was first available, so please don't attempt to discredit my own experience just because it doesn't fit with you own, it's not appreciated at all. Switching to RDM is a massive difference to something like jobs with more micromanagement like SMN, or even BRD and AST, so perhaps you just weren't cut out for being a user of pet classes to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Some pet abilities cannot be used back to back (i.e. double weaved) as they have a separate GCD timer from player GCD timer, this can sometimes cause actions to not go off correctly even though they are on cooldown.



Actually players DID ask for SCH fairy to have changes, just because you don't see tones of threads about it doesn't mean it wasn't requested at all.



That's your own experience and opinion. It's ignorant to claim that because no one else has as many issues as you, they have "low experience with the class". Example I've been playing since ACN/SMN was first available, so please don't attempt to discredit my own experience just because it doesn't fit with you own, it's not appreciated at all. Switching to RDM is a massive difference to something like jobs with more micromanagement like SMN, or even BRD and AST, so perhaps you just weren't cut out for being a user of pet classes to begin with.

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Even though i understand where you are coming from I have to disagree with your position. Even though SMN isn't in a bad spot it still can improve just like other classes have that same room for improve. A smoother pet AI would make the class less clunky. I don't think you would disagree that it is clunky. It does great DPS absolutely and has great utility but that doesn't change the fact that its still clunky.

I'm not disagreeing that SMN doesn't need a few adjustments, but the clunkiness can vary from players and we all have different stories to tell. I don't think anyone appreciates their own experiences being discredited just because someone else experiences it much worse you know.

The main reason for the issue is simply the fact that Eos/Selene and Garuda both have cast timers on their spells. If those were removed, it would be a lot easier to fit one of their abilities into their GCD.

Part of the reason Ifrit doesn't feel awful to use (and more importantly behaves well on Obey) is because his auto-spell is instant.

Remove the cast timers on all pets and suddenly they're not difficult to weave on.

They still have issues where they can only weave one pet "ogcd" per gcd cycle. Otherwise it will clip their core gcd hard and delay it further as they try to double weave. One issue SE really do need to address is pet action cancels when you try to string two in the same window. It can result in canceled and lost devotions/radiant shield casts outright.

I am very much a big fan of making Wind Blade instant to help mitigate how much it clips, not to mention the fact that it is also subject to caster tax which is part of the reason why Garuda lags a good deal behind Ifrit. #MakeWindBladeInstant has been my mantra since the start of SB ever since they made changed Contagion to be a time-sensitive raid dps cooldown. I shouldn't have had to make a Sic method opener to take advantage of Garuda's gambit pak just to have consistent and timely Contagions. It should be consistent out of the box!

I dont think garuda is slow because of cast time, since cast time is only 1 sec. Garuda have queue system that not execute actions before wind blade recast time is over, not cast time. If garuda would instantly queue special abilities after 1 sec cast time, it would already feel pretty smooth. After wind blade you have to wait until 3 sec recast time is over before you can execute any special actions. Or that it was during 2.0 once I test it. I m not sure did they changed anything during scholar pet changes.

Pet abilities/skills appear to work on a 1s command timer similar to macros, but are always executed on their 3s GCD. I'm not entirely clear on when the auto-spell is queued, but it feels like it's before the cast bar comes up, maybe as a check 1s before. The cast itself cannot be interrupted but you can queue the next command during it, at least in the case of Eos/Selene. With them it's most consistent when their bar is half full. With Garuda I find it's most consistent to mash right when her Wind Blade animation comes out, after the cast bar disappears. Regardless, I know trying to use a pet ability right when they have started casting always fails. That's why I suggest the instant-cast on the automatic spells, to prevent that interruption period.

Garuda has clipping issues, theres no other way to slice it and it's been in the game since they were released.

She uses a Skill queing system and sometimes a skill can get lost in the que, where as Eos was changed so she doesn't have a que system which is really noticeable ( i play sch to test things sometimes).

Because Smn has to deal with this rigidness / clunkyness I assume that is why our dmg and mobility is high but it's still not that fun to have to babysit garuda ( I've gotten used to it over the many years).

Experienced smns already know what I'm talking about, new players may still be learning how to control their pets, but changes need to be made to smns pets.

As much as I dislike the pet I still enjoy the job I just wish some QoL changes would come to my pets, smoothing out my rotation, making her more responsive with less ability ques, just small things like that would make a nice difference for me.

..... just put them on sic maybe?

Or use ifrit
Pretty sure hes still the meta idk

This class isn't fun for me anymore. When I first started in 1.0, it was a dotting class, with like 4 dots + dots from other classes that you had to get. I loved it. It was fun to dot and just watching it pop big damage. Came back for SB after I stopped for a while after reaching cap on HW and saw these new changes... did not like it at all. I'm not having fun playing this game, and I tried looking into other classes but I don't find their kit to be fun either. :'( I'm thinking about just quitting this game altogether.

Weird
I started the game as smn and grew to hate it and stop at 50 to take up tanking

Came back to it later after maxing sch and after getting the 50+ kit with dt and the other af moves who's names im forgetting and its one of my favorite casters
Happy tolike it now

Now that 4.4 has dropped I have practiced extensively with Garuda (as she is the superior pet) and I can confirm it is still as bad as it was before. SE this isn't a matter of buffing a class. This is a QOL issue for SMN across the board because it feels like we are fighting the system to do basic abilities. Pets should not be as unresponsive as they are right now. They should be as responsive as if it were a non-pet class. Other classes do not have this issue and need to do less work to perform at a high level whereas SMN not only need to fight the boss in front of them but their pet as well just to compete.

Please fix pet delay.

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Originally Posted by HanenJS

This class isn't fun for me anymore. When I first started in 1.0, it was a dotting class

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Actually summoner and scholar released during 2.0. There was no summoner during 1.0.

trying to time aetherpac with other abilities can be a real f....k in the head, SE NEEDS TO FIX THIS, dammit.., no more ffing excuses and during the next Q&A with Yoshi, someone pls adress the pet lagging issues

aetherpac should be treaten like a pet ogcd its just lagging if you try to weave another pet ability/ogcd right before/after no? : o

it imo always lags, somtimes worse than other times... and annoying af