So I finally did it, I unlocked AST today, because I'm not wanting to have to juggle around <Lv50 healer stuff anymore, and now that my SCH is 50+, I can get AST to 50 so I can dump everything Mage related that's <50 because RDM and BLM are 60+ too.
I found it far easier to learn than I first thought it would be, the only minor question is about who to throw cards on. Now, a little thinking and memorization isn't too hard, like obviously Mages don't need TP cards (or weaponskill cards), and melees don't need Ewers, and only tanks get Boles, that much is obvious.
My question is more... what do you do when there are two DPS of the same kind? Like for example, I draw a TP card and I have a MCH and a NIN in the group? Both use TP. Or, the Balance card that increases any kind of damage done.
I've been trying to alternate so that nobody feels left out, but sometimes I forget who the last person I chucked a DPS card at was, and I start hoping that I don't end up buffing the same DPS multiple times in a row, or something. Maybe a silly worry or something, but still.
Also, Ewer cards... I've been throwing all of those on myself but I remember when I was playing BLM, I had ASTs throw Ewers on me (though I don't understand why, MP is not an issue for BLM whatsoever). Do SMNs or RDMs need Ewers? I never thought I needed it on RDM, but I've never played SMN yet...
Who to throw cards to...?
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08-15-2018, 11:32 AMMaekaWho to throw cards to...?
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08-15-2018, 12:15 PMTeltae
Keeping it simple:
Ewers don't affect BLM or DRK (their relevant 'stances' disable all MP regen). Generally, if I see someone under 30-40% MP and I pull an Ewer, I'll toss it to 'em (BRDs included).
Spire is same thing: 30-40% TP, toss it their way. If everyone needs it, just pick one, or happen to have Expanded Royal Road.
Arrow is a straight up speed buff. Everyone can benefit from it, casters, ranged, melee, tanks, and healers. It reduces GCD for weapon classes, and cast time for casters.
Spear is a straight up crit buff. Everyone can benefit from it, casters, ranged, melee, tanks (to a lesser extent), and healers.
Bole is very situational, as you noted. Typically tank only if needed, and Royal Road/Shuffle fodder.
Balance is the one everyone begs for. Everyone wants it. Can't go wrong with this one. Slap it on a DPS of any kind.
For random groups, alternating who gets buffs is fine. If you forget your order, nobody really is gonna notice and it's not that big a deal. Even if you exclusively give buffs to one person, it's not likely to be an issue (in my experience anyway). Do note, some players will claim they don't want such and such buff for reasons (Arrow...). In statics, fine, coordinate. In randoms, you don't know if they care, I'd go with defaulting to they don't. -
08-15-2018, 12:25 PMHyoMinPark
Typically what I do for the damage cards (simplistic usage; not entirely optimized):
—Balance: I tend to pass them around between the DPS.
—Spear: I tend to pass these around between DPS, but I prioritize BRD and MNK because of how they interact with Crit.
—Arrow: I tend to pass these around, but I prioritize BLMs usually.
For Bole: tanks usually, but only if they are taking a lot of damage. Otherwise I Royal Road.
Ewer/Spire: Typically they end up being Royal Road fodder, unless a DPS needs TP, or myself or another healer or caster needs MP.
When you get Minor Arcana at level 66, any cards you don’t need to use you can use for it to either get a Lady of Crowns (heal) or a Lord of Crowns (damage).
For 4-man duties, I pass around damage cards. 8-mans, I try to AOE as often as possible, but otherwise rotate single-target damage boost cards between the DPS (usually just go down my party list for that unless I get specific ones—like if I pull a Spear, and we have a BRD in the party, for example). -
08-15-2018, 12:37 PMMaeka
I don't think I have Royal Road yet, unless that's the 35 ability.
I just got 35 earlier, but I haven't done the quest yet, but I'll keep these suggestions in mind, thanks!
So.... I should tell ASTs to stop using Ewer on me as BLM then, I take it? Seems like most of them I get into a group with, do and I've been scratching my head over that, I was tempted to ask one of them not to, but then I thought 'there must be a reason they do that' that I wasn't aware of. -
08-15-2018, 12:45 PMTeltaeNope, they're just bad, or unaware. Unless it's done with Expanded Royal Road and you're just one of a bunch that received it. It's understandable to an extent though, if an AST hasn't played or payed much attention to BLM or DRK. I usually give a quick 'Hey Ewer doesn't work on me in Astral Fire/Darkside,' and that seems to get the point across.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maeka
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08-15-2018, 12:52 PMHyoMinParkYes, Royal Road is your level 35 skill. As for BLM and Ewer, I’ve never heard of them ever wanting them. So no, I would not prioritize them for a Ewer. I prioritize myself or another healer for Ewers, personally. If I’m not Royal Roading them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maeka
RDMs do appreciate them if they have died and do not have Lucid Dreaming available, or have been raising frequently. Something to keep in mind for when you get closer to 70. SMNs do not tend to have MP issues usually, and BLMs are endless mana pool. So I would recommend prioritizing Ewers on yourself/your co-healer > RDM. Yeah, BRDs can benefit from it for Foe’s, but they would make better use of a damage boost card, and Ewers can be used for other things.
My personal preference as a BRD is Spears, Spears, and more Spears. -
08-15-2018, 01:03 PMMaeka
Yeah, I was asking about when I'm a BLM myself and I see an AST dumping Ewers on me lol. I already know from being a BLM that there's like, zero things I'd ever want or need MP regen for.
Hmm.
So far though, AST kinda reminds me of WHM (unlike SCH lol), only with.... cards and an actual finite MP pool (at least thusfar). It sure keeps my F-key targeting practice going lol. Though I'm not sure how good I'll be with that when I get to 50 and 8-mans, I tend to struggle on F5-F8 and resort to clicking, something I've always had trouble with. -
08-15-2018, 09:11 PMsupaiku
Unless you get synced to a level where you don't have royal road, don't give people ewers or spires, they are a waste of a card. (If you or someone else is really really low on ressources, you might use it, but I wouldn't recommend it when people still have more than ~30%). Better use them to let your next card effect all of your party members.
Use bole on your tank. But if he/she plays well / has good equipment, you might as well use it for royal road.
I prioritize the other cards this way: balance > spear > arrow. I will give the arrow to BLMs and SAMs and the spear to BRDs. And of course everyone likes balances :D
Sometimes though rng hates us and we get like 10 spires or boles in a row, can't do much then but use them. -
08-15-2018, 09:57 PMPerrinTaveren
Balance - Highest dps in the party.
Bole - The person that needs protection, in PvE i use it on tanks. In HoH, i use it on healer (myself) or tank. In PvP i use it situational.
Arrow - BLMs are great with this since they have the highest cast times, other than that everyone. But BLM priority.
Spear - Bard & Monk priority since they work with crit.
Ewer - Doesn't effect DRK and BLM, so NO to them, otherwise use it on who has low mp.
Spire - TP regen.
Ewer & Spire mostly used for Royal Road. -
08-16-2018, 02:06 AMReinfeld
I usually go for aoe royal roads, but if I don't have it I give it to whoever i think is dealing the most dps. 10% of 8k dps is more than 10% of 6k.
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08-16-2018, 03:40 AMRelhon
I almost always royal road my ewers and spires unless someone specifically needs it. I also try to spread my balance card unless it's needed right away so I can aim for an aoe balance. If I'm between trash pulls, for instance, I'll spread the balance card and try for a ewer or spire so I can aoe the balance. If I'm right in the fight, though, I won't waste the balance to spread and I'll just give it to the highest dps.
Bole for tanks usually when needed.
If I'm not aoe'ing arrow and spear I'll just rotate them as others have mentioned. -
08-19-2018, 11:28 PMGeminaIt indeed does play a lot like WHM with a card gimmick. Things change a bit though once you are 50 and acquire Noct Sect. Even though AST can shield and do it very, very well, it still doesn't quite feel like a SCH because you are not dealing with having to manage aetherflow stacks and Lily. At 52 you FINALLY get an AoE to hit mobs with, and mixed with lightspeed and cleric stance, you can seriously wreck trash packs and add phases, again making it feel a lot like WHM even post 50.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maeka
You definitely have to watch your MP though. Out of the three healers, AST is the least MP efficient by far having the fewest tools to replenish their MP or reduce MP cost. BRDs are your best friend so buff the crap out of them, and they usually respond in kind. -
08-20-2018, 12:22 AMGemina
Going to make a separate post for how I deal with cards. There are several abilities as you grow that changes how you deal with your divining deck. For example, pre 35 you just draw and give that card to whoever, but at 35 you can start burning the card you don't want because you will quickly notice that the Spire and the Ewer are the cards you benefit the least from. These two cards are more beneficial in drawn out fights. Keep that in mind if you're going to take your AST into harder content.
At 40 you can start holding onto a card you draw, and at 45 you can redraw it which again changes how you deal with the card you get. From here, most AST are going to try and Royal Road the Ewer or the Spire to grant an AoE for their next card. This is a good tactic, especially in 8-man. Prior to getting Minor Arcana at 66 and RRing the Ewer/Spire, you are going to want to use/spread your next card if it is a buff card, and redraw if it is a refresh. You can gamble if still going for the Balance or the Spear, but you might end up with another refresh card, and then you're screwed.
That said, though everyone loves the Balance, do not underestimate the buffs from the Arrow or the Spear. I actually enjoy AST the most in 4-man because I feel I can be more strategic instead of static with my cards. In 4-man, I may be more inclined to RR other cards other than Ewer/Spire. These effects are also not to be underestimated. AoE balance is awesome, but so is a 1 minute Spear on a highly geared SAM or MNK against a boss. Gauge your party and play to their strengths. That is honestly the best advice I can give when it comes to how you deal with the cards. -
08-28-2018, 10:48 PMCassandaria
I think it boils down to performance. For some cards, it's easy to figure what to do with, balance, any DPS, in fact...any job benefits from it. But, if you get spire? Look for who has low TP that is using TP. Crit up with spear, same deal, everyone CAN benefit from it. Bole is handiest on tanks, but really if raid wide damage is coming and someone takes more damage (likely due to lower level gear) than use your best judgement. Ewer is also up for grabs, if another party member, outside of a BLM or DRK has low mp, toss it on them, if YOU have low MP, use it on yourself. Most jobs have really good tools to keep their own MP up pretty handily, but a boost never hurts, outside of BLK and DRK which have abilities that kill mp regen abilities. So, outside use, say a paladin needs to burn flash a lot and is tearing through MP, and you draw ewer? Paladin will benefit from it.
Arrow is pretty good all around as well, it's a raw speed increase, give it to...well...anyone, you can't go wrong, but my opinion is based on the situation. If the tank needs a BIT more edge in hate keeping, arrow will help, the more they pump out the more hate they generate (though this is VERY situational), big heals needing to come in, extra speed can't hurt there either. DPS? same deal, always good in almost any situation, but think about the content at hand.
The cards are a very flexible system and really outside of a few highly niche cases, you aren't going to go wrong so long as you are actively using your cards as soon as you can until you get royal road (where you can form better strategies) or when you get higher and can use minor arcana. -
08-29-2018, 12:06 AMHyoMinPark
@Perrin & @Reinfeld - one of the optimized usage of Balance is usually on the highest DPS, but if OP isn't parsing, there's no way for them to know that. It is also optimal to give a Balance card to a DPS currently in a burst window to also maximize the potential gain from it (e.g., a BRD in a Raging Strikes+Dragon Sight window, or a MNK during their burst window). But that's for an entirely different level of play compared to leveling.
If you know who the highest DPS is, sure, give them the Balance. But if you don't, pass them around.
One situation you could put them to use towards in 4-man content is AOE situations. Say you have a SMN in your group or a BLM; they have monstrous AOE, so they will make good use of a Balance during a large trash pull or two compared to a job with weaker AOE potential (or compared to a DPS that is allergic to their AOE buttons). -
08-30-2018, 09:13 AMvVAstrAVv
Tp and mp cards (spire and ewer)
Are best used on the tanks and yourself when needed. Tanks dont have tp recovery skills that dps have access to so its nice for war and pld
Drk wont need it
Defense and attack cards (bole and balance)
Are situational really. If the tanks great and a dps is floor tanking give them the bole if it helps but balance for whoever is best untill something ill get to in a sec
Arrows are crack to blm monk and nin
And spears are kinda useless to anyone but bards since its crit RATE i think
Later though you'll unlock redraw and royal road. Where youll usually trash spires spears boles and if you dont need it ewers for their associated buffs towards your next draw
And even later youll get minor arcana where youll do the same for either a strong heal or single target attack -
08-30-2018, 01:51 PMReinhardt_Azureheim
On topic of BLMs and Arrow usage for Lv70:
Disclaimer - I base this tip on the idea that the BLM in question is competent and has a proper opener for endgame.
If a BLM runs a high spellspeed build, avoid giving him an arrow at the start of a fight.
Getting the initial Foul / Polyglot right after their 8x Fire IV opener after Blizzard III is important to keep the casting flow going without relying on mp ticks, speeding this up can cause a gap in casting by lacking Polyglot for being too fast, essentially wasting the power of arrow cards. A thunder III proc can substitute it, but depends on luck or opener.
Throughout the fight it is generally a welcome gesture though (and below 70 too). -
08-30-2018, 02:09 PMKabooaCutting off an entire GCD of time on the AF phase is well worth taking Arrow. That means we get into UI faster and that means we get into AF again faster, for more F4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim
You can never go wrong giving a Black Mage Arrow.
Also, I logged in to test this. Convert opener is enough mp to B3 into an immediate B4. MP tick is irrelevant. -
09-03-2018, 10:11 AMMaeka
I know it's been a few days since I visited the thread.....
But these last few dungeons? I haven't had to worry about what cards to use on who because I draw Ewer/Spire some 5, 6, 7 times in a row.
Did a Cutter's Cry earlier and I drew a Bole first thing. RR. Spire. RR. Ewer. RR. the next 5 cards in a row were Spires.
......bleck.
Suffice it to say, it's very rare I don't have an Expanded RR when I finally draw a buff card. I hope that improves eventually... -
09-03-2018, 10:48 AMRongwayIn Light Party content, prior to Redraw and Minor Arcana, you should be using your Ewers and Spires instead of Roading them. They decrease the effectiveness of the next card (two cards spent giving everyone a 50% potency buff is less effective than giving one buff to the best target). Even if it doesn't look like anyone can make use of them, it's better to use them than to gimp the next card. You should only be burning cards for AoE in full party content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maeka
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09-03-2018, 10:48 AMHyoMinParkExpect that a lot. RNG loves to give ASTs Spires and Ewers when they don’t want/need them. At least Redraw doesn’t cause you to discard a Ewer and redraw another Ewer anymore! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Maeka