Request: Can we go back the old patch model? Content is now spread too thin

Besides the fact that Pagos just isn't fun, a big factor here is that Yoshida delayed Pagos by an entire month and a week just to try to spread content over the patch cycle. If Pagos had come out with HoH we at least would have had some use for that weapon, but as it is right now we're ~4 weeks away from 4.4 with a 30 item level increase, how do we justify having people grind for 2-3 weeks just to use a weapon for 1-2 weeks?

This was a question actually asked in the last live letter and Yoshida's answer was that they always split content, but content was never spread this thin before, normally we would have 4.3 and 4.35 with every other patch being minor changes, now we have major content being split into 4.3 4.31 4.35 4.36, it just makes the content drought more visible and discourages people from sticking around to wait for new content.

if pagos came out same time as HoH no one would be doing HoH. the point of pagos is not to get a weapon you should have gotten better one via clearing god kefka already. the point of pagos is to prep yourself to get the final form of the relic when that is released. you're splitting the playerbase up too much if you release everything right away.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

if pagos came out same time as HoH no one would be doing HoH.

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Nope. Every person I know would be doing both, because Pagos is terrible and while a few people may enjoy doing it for hours on end they are in the vast minority. By splitting the patches they're forcing us to focus on each thing ad nauseum until we hate it instead of giving us a variety of new things to keep our interest. This isn't grade school, we don't all have to go to the exact same assembly at the exact same time for it to be successful.

I like the eureka concept a lot, but I do feel like something is going on these days that’s causing me less interest in the game in general... either content is being spread too thin or less effort is being put into meaningful content and rewards. That and I’ve hit a point where I wish players had never asked for old dungeon/raid gear to be made dyable because I feel like the majority of what we get anymore are reskins and it’s a continual letdown patch after patch especially when the new glamour designs aren’t that interesting, are becoming few and far between, or are $18 in the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

if pagos came out same time as HoH no one would be doing HoH. the point of pagos is not to get a weapon you should have gotten better one via clearing god kefka already. the point of pagos is to prep yourself to get the final form of the relic when that is released. you're splitting the playerbase up too much if you release everything right away.

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By that logic, the relic is pointless throughout. When the final step releases approximately in March should current scheduling remain, Alphascape will have been long since been killed and the relic will offer 120 Determination? Wow... compelling. While I know previous relics have never been much better, they at least were decent progression weapons. With that aspect lost in Stormblood, they really are very grind heavy glamours with little to no purpose otherwise.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

if pagos came out same time as HoH no one would be doing HoH. the point of pagos is not to get a weapon you should have gotten better one via clearing god kefka already. the point of pagos is to prep yourself to get the final form of the relic when that is released. you're splitting the playerbase up too much if you release everything right away.

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I kind of have this mindset, especially since early information that the Pagos weapon is at ilevel 370, which is the current cap and range for the weapons already available from the patch contents.

I don't know if its true, but I heard a rumor that Yoshi lost 1/3 of his dev team to the FF VII team because that project is running very behind schedule and needs to catch up. They are also having trouble hiring devs for that game right now so the transfers would make sense. If this is what's really going on, then it would perfectly explain why content is being spread out because the devs are spread too thin.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

if pagos came out same time as HoH no one would be doing HoH. the point of pagos is not to get a weapon you should have gotten better one via clearing god kefka already. the point of pagos is to prep yourself to get the final form of the relic when that is released. you're splitting the playerbase up too much if you release everything right away.

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If pagos came out same time as HoH no one would be doing pagos because it's asscancer trash content.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I don't know if its true, but I heard a rumor that Yoshi lost 1/3 of his dev team to the FF VII team because that project is running very behind schedule and needs to catch up. They are also having trouble hiring devs for that game right now so the transfers would make sense. If this is what's really going on, then it would perfectly explain why content is being spread out because the devs are spread too thin.

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Why on earth are they having problems hiring devs for FFVII? Deserved or not, it's like their most popular game EVER. If they can't get people to work on the project, they either aren't offering a realistic package or they have unrealistic expectations about their potential employees. And this is part of their overall problem with personnel. They killed XI (for the most part) by moving most of that team to XIV. Now they are going to kill XIV by moving the team off of this?

Someone is making some very bad decisions if this is the case and their company will suffer. I haven't logged in today and I canceled my sub last night. If they don't even love their game enough to keep resources on it, then there's no reason for me to keep investing in it.

2.0 &3.0 relic questline > 4.0

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Originally Posted by Sakuraluna

I like the eureka concept a lot, but I do feel like something is going on these days that’s causing me less interest in the game in general... either content is being spread too thin or less effort is being put into meaningful content and rewards. That and I’ve hit a point where I wish players had never asked for old dungeon/raid gear to be made dyable because I feel like the majority of what we get anymore are reskins and it’s a continual letdown patch after patch especially when the new glamour designs aren’t that interesting, are becoming few and far between, or are $18 in the cash shop.

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I actually agree with you. Not only am I losing interest but the patches are actually bringing less content. Look at patch 3.3, it has the same type of content as 4.3 but 4.3 literally has half as much content AND its been spread thin over time. The fact that we get the final piece of content so close to the next patch also makes me just want to unsub til the end of the content cycle so I can enjoy it all at once... But im afraid that doing that will just make me lose interest in the game completely. =/

So less content combined with spreading that content too thin is just killing my motivation to play this game.

Personally, I'm waiting till 4.4 to see if the new armors are decent looking. The only thing keeping me to this game is the addiction factor but even that is waning. After coming back from an extended break only to find less content spread out for four months, yes the patch cycles are now four months, I have to seriously consider if I un-sub till patch or just quit entirely as $15 /month is starting to look like a waste of money. That's telling when 3 coffee's is a better time spent than a months worth of gaming in FFXIV.

I don't care either way. The way the patch cycle is now gives me a little extra room/time to grind a few more Extreme Primal totems over time towards to the upcoming golden mount from getting all the SB Extreme Primal ones.

At the end of the day, I made it a habit not to do too many things at once to the point where I'd burn myself out to the seventh hell.

Heck, I still need to get my Shinryu EX clear, as I already have the rest of the SB EX primals on farm. Having to put with nearly all my parties not even making it to the add phase in the battle is very staggering.

If they both came out same time. I would still hardly ran ether of them and been crafting still most of the time.

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

I don't care either way. The way the patch cycle is now gives me a little extra room/time to grind a few more Extreme Primal totems over time towards to the upcoming golden mount from getting all the SB Extreme Primal ones.

At the end of the day, I made it a habit not to do too many things at once to the point where I'd burn myself out to the seventh hell.

Heck, I still need to get my Shinryu EX clear, as I already have the rest of the SB EX primals on farm. Having to put with nearly all my parties not even making it to the add phase in the battle is very staggering.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but the primals only come with the MSQ, first patch of the cycle, and the actual base patches (4.3, 4.4, 4.5) haven't been spread out. Therefore you'd still have the same amount of time between 4.3 and 4.4.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

Correct me if I'm wrong but the primals only come with the MSQ, first patch of the cycle, and the actual base patches (4.3, 4.4, 4.5) haven't been spread out. Therefore you'd still have the same amount of time between 4.3 and 4.4.

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Correct. But I mean is that sometimes, some Extreme Primal strats can change *looks at the recent Byakko 'No Stack' strat.

And I prefer to try and get the upcoming golden mount for Stormblood Extreme Primals before the new Expansion comes out someday. *Points to all the trap-heavy Thordan, Nidhogg, Sephirot, Sophia, and Zurvan "Farm" parties while unsynced.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I don't know if its true, but I heard a rumor that Yoshi lost 1/3 of his dev team to the FF VII team because that project is running very behind schedule and needs to catch up. They are also having trouble hiring devs for that game right now so the transfers would make sense. If this is what's really going on, then it would perfectly explain why content is being spread out because the devs are spread too thin.

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That really seems like a baseless rumor. The FFVII Remake project doesn't even have a fixed schedule yet, and they've never shown any signs about being worried about it "slipping" before (maybe if they had some firm commitment, but they don't; they also wouldn't choose this director if timeliness were their top priority, nor would they have given up on outsourcing and brought it all in-house). I think this is part of the "all the money FFXIV is being funneled into other games" conspiracy, now evolved into "the staff are being funneled into other games, too."

More likely, Pagos just wasn't ready, and they scheduled the release accordingly. Some people make it sound as though it was sitting in the game all ready to go and they chose to artificially delay it just because, but that's pretty unlikely. The "spreading" of the content doesn't really change the amount of work involved, except for a few common services like localization and QA. The various dev teams themselves will have been assigned their tasks long ago. I think people are reading a lot into this by implying it's a new patch model when relic-related content has traditionally been "off-cycle" content anyway. The difference is just that got it split off from 4.35 into 4.36 this time. The fact that it aligned with the timing of the collaboration event was probably useful for the dev team so that it wouldn't just be this one thing by itself, but it's a bit much to say that it's indicative of a trend at this point.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

if pagos came out same time as HoH no one would be doing HoH. the point of pagos is not to get a weapon you should have gotten better one via clearing god kefka already. the point of pagos is to prep yourself to get the final form of the relic when that is released. you're splitting the playerbase up too much if you release everything right away.

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I think most people that already had most Lv70s (which is lot of players if you are active since HOH was added so late) only did it once.
I havn't done HOH since 1st week cause it same as POTD and serves no purpose to me.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

if pagos came out same time as HoH no one would be doing HoH. the point of pagos is not to get a weapon you should have gotten better one via clearing god kefka already. the point of pagos is to prep yourself to get the final form of the relic when that is released. you're splitting the playerbase up too much if you release everything right away.

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The relic was always valuable to those who don't do Savage. It was supposed to be the non-raider progression path. Not everyone does Savage. So yes, when the content is released on time, the point IS to get a weapon you intend to use for more than glamour.

And now the relic gonna be obsolete in 5-6 weeks cause of new trial weapon be added.

I don't mind them spreading it out, but the problem is they spread it out too far. HoH, and Pagos should have been closer together. It's just too long to experience the patch as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Someone is making some very bad decisions if this is the case and their company will suffer.

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To be honest from an outside perspective it seems to be the case that they are stacked with talent but poorly managed. Most of their major projects go through what is best described as development hell. FF XV took 10+ years to complete (almost complete, has some cut content) and during that time it was scraped and restarted, changed engine, changed target platform from PS3/360 to PS4/XBO and entirely changed the story and some major characters from earlier versions which had been revealed to the public.

Likewise FF VII Remake was scraped and restarted since an earlier version was revealed to the public and moved from an outsourced project to an internal one that they then began re-hiring and re-planning for what will become another giant length development. KH3 has also been a long time coming. It will be amazing if they can go from announcement to release of a FF XVI without some kind of major setbacks. I really want them to succeed and personally wish XVI would return to series roots like IX style with modern production values... and be in development for no more than 6 years.

Having said all that, I don't believe the FF XIV team is poorly managed at all. They are very good at sticking to deadlines and must be to keep momentum as an MMO. At worst a patch may slip a couple of weeks or some side content shifted to a later patch than originally planned, but all of the core content like MSQ and raids have been coming out like clockwork since 2013 with no end in sight. I have a lot of confidence and respect for this team. Sometimes they miss the mark; Pagos is a bit too slow and punishing. It's only been available for 1 week, they can fix it.

Apart from MSQ, I'm not generally hanging around waiting for new content: I'm still overwhelmed by all the old content I have yet to finish. I would also support SE making some of that old content more relevant at endgame, especially when the content drought (apparently) sets in (I've never noticed a drought... just a deluge of stuff I can't keep up with).

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Originally Posted by purgatori

I would also support SE making some of that old content more relevant at endgame, especially when the content drought (apparently) sets in (I've never noticed a drought... just a deluge of stuff I can't keep up with).

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that was exactly what the old relic weapons in 2.0 and 3.0 were supposed to achieve: grind a variety of old content to get one of the best weapons in the game.

now we have to grind some boring new content to get some trash weapon...

I really think that what is really the problem is that the relic is so at the end of the cycle and that there is only an iLvl increase every 6 months. Spreading out content is fine, but whatever content is put right before the gigantic iLvl increase patch is going to launch as obsolete content with the current model. They COULD be brave with the relic and make it 10-20+ iLevels of the current savage/ultimate weapon to make it the entry point into the next tier of raids and make it a patch to prepare for the next tier of content. But I am not sure how some people would feel about that.

I agree with the topic of this thread and have been saying this since the following patch of the SB launch when they announced that they would begin spreading content. I think the bottom line is that FFXIV now caters more to the players that are new to the game to the point where they feel like there is so much to do (which it is.) Content has been made easier and more accessible to draw in new players but in doing so they neglect the long time players why spreading content and removing the challenge.

I took the day off because of the patch and played it for about 3-4 hours...Then didn't pick it up again because I just wasn't having fun. I recently unsubbed after the last patch...Just as I did after the Kefka fight was released. I keep coming back in hopes that something will renew my interest in this game but I've come to the realization that there just isn't much keeping me attached to the game other than nostalgia and my love for the series. And after disappointment after disappointment, I'm just done with this game.

Nothing in this game holds value...That il370 weapon that people are mindlessly grinding for in Pagos will be trash come next patch cycle. HoH was finished in a week, trials and dungeons come and go. I'm tired of re-skinned weapons and armor. Tired of delayed content that literally is a copy of previous content. (HoH/PoTD and Animos/Pagos)

I kinda miss feeling a little overwhelmed and not knowing where i wanted to go first.

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Originally Posted by Tint

that was exactly what the old relic weapons in 2.0 and 3.0 were supposed to achieve: grind a variety of old content to get one of the best weapons in the game.

now we have to grind some boring new content to get some trash weapon...

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The ludicrous part of what you're saying is that the whole reason why eureka exists is because people kept complaining on doing old content over and over, and that feedback likely got to them via one route or another.

I don't care either route for the relic, but seeing the community flip flop like this is both a reason to laugh and facepalm.

SE's low-tier content model and content is general is why we've went to play WoW's xpac and haven't touched FF14 more than maybe 3-4 times in the past month.

It's a shame because we used to want to play it everyday, all the way back from ARR but content either A: Takes forever to get out or B: Is just a complete repaste or minor rework of some old content. You could try to say it's just being burned out, but really they haven't been offering much new to get burnt out on.

Whereas the new expansion for WoW has been a blast so far, even just doing normal quest/dungeons has felt more fresh and fun than anything SE has released in the past half year, or with Stormblood in general really.

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Originally Posted by Areic

SE's low-tier content model and content is general is why we've went to play WoW's xpac and haven't touched FF14 more than maybe 3-4 times in the past month.

It's a shame because we used to want to play it everyday, all the way back from ARR but content either A: Takes forever to get out or B: Is just a complete repaste or minor rework of some old content. You could try to say it's just being burned out, but really they haven't been offering much new to get burnt out on.

Whereas the new expansion for WoW has been a blast so far, even just doing normal quest/dungeons has felt more fresh and fun than anything SE has released in the past half year, or with Stormblood in general really.

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Yeah, WoW definitely had a very good expansion last expansion. Mythic+ really saved that game from the raid or die environment that game had. Now, if only FFXIV could solve that same problem next expansion and always have something for people to work on on all skill levels it would be great as there would be two great MMOs on the market. :)

I don't understand them pushing Pagos out after HoH. I really think if they are spread thin and they had to make a choice, then HoH should have been the one to get pushed back. Now, I understand that Pagos is more work to make, but seeing how its the way we get our relic weapon it needed to be at the start of the patch not a few weeks out from the next patch. But I honestly don't mind them releasing stuff here and there. Because my issue with HW was I'd beat everything that I was interested in (I wasn't doing savage like I am now) and then have nothing to do for a month or two. Now I get a few weeks where I don't really play then I'll play for quite a bit until something else is released. Which is nice cuz I got sick of Tsukuyomi and my classes that needed her weapon have it. Took a few weeks off then HoH came out and i grounded til I had what I wanted.Got sick of doing the daily grind on savage for gear that is about to outdated and took some time off then Ratholos and Pagos came out now I am playing again. I don't think this is a bad formula. I just think they're catering to an audience than those who make this game their main squeeze with little breaks in between. Don't get me wrong, I play this game the most, I just can see why and how this formula works vs what we got during ARR/HW.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

The ludicrous part of what you're saying is that the whole reason why eureka exists is because people kept complaining on doing old content over and over, and that feedback likely got to them via one route or another.

I don't care either route for the relic, but seeing the community flip flop like this is both a reason to laugh and facepalm.

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Or there could be different people in the community with different opinions and not one hive mind. Or they wanted new content thats interesting and still give people the chance to go at it in a different way. If people wanted something better than old content but then the solution for that turns out to be worse for them, its no wonder that they want the lesser devil of the two back. Heck they could have given us the choice of doing it two ways. One way to get it through or Eureka and another through old content. Or they could have made one part of it through Eureka and another through other ones. In the end Eureka is just the fate part with a new skin and at the same time also remains the only part of it.

I don't know what the best course of action might be, but I do remember back in the day, when they released everything at once. After a week or two, people would have devoured the content and would start complaining that there was "NOTHING ELSE TO DO", mad at how Yoshida dared to tell them to have a life or play other games between patches. I understand why they'd want to try the spreading out content formula, so people have something to look up for every month. However, this method is also making people unhappy.

In the end, you simply can't please everyone. There'll be complaints.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

The ludicrous part of what you're saying is that the whole reason why eureka exists is because people kept complaining on doing old content over and over, and that feedback likely got to them via one route or another.

I don't care either route for the relic, but seeing the community flip flop like this is both a reason to laugh and facepalm.

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This too.
I personally enjoyed Eureka a lot, it's the first time I completed a step of my relic with two characters -laughs-. I haven't tried Pagos much yet (engaged in MHW at the moment), but I'll get to it eventually.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

I don't know what the best course of action might be, but I do remember back in the day, when they released everything at once. After a week or two, people would have devoured the content and would start complaining that there was "NOTHING ELSE TO DO", mad at how Yoshida dared to tell them to have a life or play other games between patches. I understand why they'd want to try the spreading out content formula, so people have something to look up for every month. However, this method is also making people unhappy.

In the end, you simply can't please everyone. There'll be complaints.

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You can never truly please those that really rush through content. I mean if you no life the game there wont be enough to do. But even if you play casually you will have done most of what the patch had to offer in max a week and with the splitting of the content maybe even faster. In the past people that rushed through content that normally takes some time for casual players could also just unsub and wait for the next patch. Now they have to sub again and again for each splitted patch content (which they will go through even faster) thus they are kinda waisting money on this. But you will also have casuals that will go through this fast because there is nothing much else new so even they might have nothing to do. (Other than giving yourself other tasks, doing achievements and stuff like that) So any more content that is not seen as that good for quite a part of the community is another point where people will just unsub..combine that with the release of WoWs expansion and you might lose quite some subs..

So the big problem imo is that even the more casual playing gamers go through new stuff too fast or have something that is too much..we need a better middle ground. Something that might still be cleared fast by no lifers but still be achievable by casuals.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

The ludicrous part of what you're saying is that the whole reason why eureka exists is because people kept complaining on doing old content over and over, and that feedback likely got to them via one route or another.

I don't care either route for the relic, but seeing the community flip flop like this is both a reason to laugh and facepalm.

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So their solution to people complaining about tediously long grinds of the same repetitive things was to... make an more longer, more repetitive grind devoid of even the slightest mechanics despite having Notorious Monster fights which no one complained about? I, too, laugh and facepalm at the sheer incompetency. How about, instead, they make a grind that isn't stale and uncreative? What a novel concept!

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

I don't know what the best course of action might be, but I do remember back in the day, when they released everything at once. After a week or two, people would have devoured the content and would start complaining that there was "NOTHING ELSE TO DO", mad at how Yoshida dared to tell them to have a life or play other games between patches. I understand why they'd want to try the spreading out content formula, so people have something to look up for every month. However, this method is also making people unhappy.

In the end, you simply can't please everyone. There'll be complaints.

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The difference is I can elect to space the content out more should I choose. I typically want to play FFXIV when a new patch launches. I should be excited for it, right? Well, 4.3 released and I was done with pretty much the whole thing in a day. I didn't rush, I simply had a one where I could relax and play a favourite game. In my particular case, Ultimate released to keep me occupied otherwise... there simply wasn't anything else. People disinterested in such difficult content would have nothing to do. A lot of casual players I know felt bored and unsatisfied. Is this how players should feel after a major patch releases? I certainly hope not yet plenty do. It's fine to say take breaks, but you shouldn't feel obligated every other patch to stop playing because the game has no content. Even at a casual pace, you'll complete most things in less than a week despite the devs trying to stretch it out for over a month.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Or there could be different people in the community with different opinions and not one hive mind. Or they wanted new content thats interesting and still give people the chance to go at it in a different way. If people wanted something better than old content but then the solution for that turns out to be worse for them, its no wonder that they want the lesser devil of the two back. Heck they could have given us the choice of doing it two ways. One way to get it through or Eureka and another through old content. Or they could have made one part of it through Eureka and another through other ones. In the end Eureka is just the fate part with a new skin and at the same time also remains the only part of it.

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With as many times as they cite <limitations> I am hard pressed to believe people really think they'd give you two ways of getting the same item. They failed, just hope in 5.0 they learned and do something different or use "diadem" on something else. But saying "better go back to the old model" right now will do nothing.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

So their solution to people complaining about tediously long grinds of the same repetitive things was to... make an more longer, more repetitive grind devoid of even the slightest mechanics despite having Notorious Monster fights which no one complained about? I, too, laugh and facepalm at the sheer incompetency. How about, instead, they make a grind that isn't stale and uncreative? What a novel concept!

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There there, You'll learn soon enough that the only time they show competence is when they create stuff for the 1%.

Giving me content that lasts an hour, maybe four hours tops if you're counting first .x release, every month doesn't really make it any better than giving me 8 hours of content one month and then holding for 4 months. At least when I have everything at once, I'm more likely to alternate - an hour of Eureka here, a night of HoH there, some crafting for gil later - but when I only have one thing to focus on I'm going to burn out on it. Maybe more rewards from places like HoH, Eureka, Canals need to be bound. Give me a reason to run these things short of "the items are now 10 gil so I'll just buy what I want." I don't know. I just know that even Swallow's Compass, which I loved, got old after a few weeks of running it nightly.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Besides the fact that Pagos just isn't fun, a big factor here is that Yoshida delayed Pagos by an entire month and a week just to try to spread content over the patch cycle. If Pagos had come out with HoH we at least would have had some use for that weapon, but as it is right now we're ~4 weeks away from 4.4 with a 30 item level increase, how do we justify having people grind for 2-3 weeks just to use a weapon for 1-2 weeks?

This was a question actually asked in the last live letter and Yoshida's answer was that they always split content, but content was never spread this thin before, normally we would have 4.3 and 4.35 with every other patch being minor changes, now we have major content being split into 4.3 4.31 4.35 4.36, it just makes the content drought more visible and discourages people from sticking around to wait for new content.

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Don't trust the live letter... listen to your heart and ignore the apologists. The answer is FF16.