Rathalos EX

Hello. I managed to down Rathalos EX with a party i joined after 1.5 hours. All of us were new and we really stuck with each other till completion. It was nice and all.

Then it only gave us 1 Rathalos+ scale...

I said okay. Let's farm this.

I joined like 6-7 farm groups without a single down.

The problem is, fight is so random and mostly luck based, (it literally flew towards me the moment i spawned after death which i can't react THAT fast), i find it really REALLY bothersome to kill this thing 50 times.

I don't know if i am the only one. I think 10 or 25 would be enough. I don't know, maybe i will try at 4.4 unless they ilvl cap this.

It drops all the tradable loot randomly just like every other ex primals

im with you after i get achievement ill likely even wait until 5.0 and do this unsynced at 80 the gear is ugly and the mount isnt worth doing this over and over again until i get it

Eh, I'm planning on maybe doing like one win a day so I don't go buhnaynays on it...if I manage to clear it (Got to 30%-ish). But the fight relies a bit much on RNG (So if you die, it's because the game hated you), as well as very weird hit boxes, where you'd get hit by things that you shouldn't have, yet other times you could have had too close of a call with it and been perfectly safe.

I am not a fan of this fight at all. It's basically a huge middle finger to melee dps. I haven't played Monster Hunter, so I don't know how it translates, but the sheer amount of stun + dot makes this so unfun. Getting hit once is basically a death sentence. Not to mention being knocked back, stunned, then hit again before you can heal, and dying. The amount of damage the enemy does is just WAY too high. Even if I was to compare it to a souls game, you can take a few hits, and you have MANY more options.

This really just felt like Stone Vigil HM will more damage, shorter telegraphs, a healing limit (stack marker and roar), and a death limit.

I'm all for hard content, but this isn't hard. It's punishing, and punishing is never fun.

Edit: To be clear, I like content like this and I want to see more of it, but in it's current state, it isn't fun.

Yeah, 50 for the mount is nuts. 25 would be more reasonable. (well, least it's not 99? but... with primals at least they have a chance to drop the mount while you farm it, so... yeah 50 is kind of pushing it) this patch is actually just: THE MINDLESS GRIND PATCH X

But yeah, I'll probably just do 1-2 wins a day so I don't get burnt out.

Just went all out and got 65 kills pretty easily. The fight isn't luck - he faces you, he's attacking you. In the second phase, he always targets the person (target's name changes) he's going to use the poison claw on.

By luck i meant this: if you stand close to him, you may not have the time to dodge that extremely fast dive move because he faces you and just comes at you. There is almost no cast time, so after stacking if you are unlucky he can just 1 shot you. If not, he can even target you again, and kill you.

It is random. Random = luck.

Nearly 20 scales here - it's a super fun fight as long as you aren't with dips who will take all three deaths by themselves. Granted, I have been doing the 4 Tank strat and it's been smooth as butter. No need for pesky squishes. My DPS/Heal only friends do not like this fight.

Also, the Rathalos mount does drop from the fight! My friend has it after 2 runs. I just got a Poogie from the chest. >:(

It's random, but it isn't really luck. You just need to react faster and not try to finish a cast like the game usually allows you to do.

Don't be greedy, never stay infront of him (This gives you more time to react when you see him spinning towards you), keep yourself topped and as a SCH, don't forget to spread Adlos off your fairy.

FYI,

cleared 25 times so far

Treasure Coffer dropped 4 times so far within those 25 runs

3/4 coffer had Poogie Minion and Proof of Hero Orch Scroll

1/4 coffer had minion, orch scroll, and Rathalos Whistle

So you could potentially get everything well before 50 clears.

Keep in mind that for most of Rathalos's attacks, you can dodge them by sticking to his left flank. Aside from fireballs and the roar, he'll always miss.

I have no tried ex yet but i enjoyed normal so much. So happy this is a permanent addition.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

It's random, but it isn't really luck. You just need to react faster and not try to finish a cast like the game usually allows you to do.

Don't be greedy, never stay infront of him (This gives you more time to react when you see him spinning towards you), keep yourself topped and as a SCH, don't forget to spread Adlos off your fairy.

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This. The fight isn't luck based at all. The only random part is which attacks he is gonna use next because it's exactly like in Monster Hunter.

The key to the fight is to note its pattern down. Once you do it's easy to dodge them, but you need to stay on its flanks, mainly its left wing.

And you get stunned if you take too much damage...just like in MH.

Problem I have with this fight, is that it tried to copy the basic mechanics of monster hunter and failing in the worst possible ways imaginable.

First the fight IS random: he has no aggro table (just like MH) and we only have 3 deaths before game over (just like MH).

HOWEVER, we don't have a dodge button and unlike that game where there's actual hitboxes with actual precision and care into it we are dealing with a system not though for this kind of combat, resulting in many - MANY - hits that shouldn't have happened but that did because "hitboxes are different here".

I managed to get it down after an entire day and let me tell you that, even with my group who knew the entire fight from head to toe, what killed us was that random "screw you" moment where he decided to both stun, poison, and push us toward the firey pattern and most likely waste a death. Plus the first phase is full of nuisance that just don't make it fun - did we REALLY need adds? The Garula is fine but did we really need additional adds that really bring nothing to fight?
Plus this fight is also not well thought out for melee and unless they're overly geared they won't survive a hit, resolving with mostly ranged or maybe 2 tanks (which is how I got my kill and it was a breeze then).

Overall, If I ever wanted the stuff, I think I'll definitely wait for 4.4 with the new gear: by then dps will have enough hp to survive the instagib of randomness and most likely have enough dps to kill it in 2 downs.

I honestly would rather play MHW than this fight...at least that game is purposedly hard.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

what killed us was that random "screw you" moment where he decided to both stun, poison, and push us toward the firey pattern and most likely waste a death

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pretty faithful to rathalos in general since that's how he kills most people as does his wife rathian Stun> poison/burn death

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Originally Posted by Duskane

pretty faithful to rathalos in general since that's how he kills most people as does his wife rathian Stun> poison/burn death

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Oh well, it's not like there are resistances in monster hunter...

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Oh well, it's not like there are resistances in monster hunter...

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Yes there are ???

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Originally Posted by PerrinTaveren

By luck i meant this: if you stand close to him, you may not have the time to dodge that extremely fast dive move because he faces you and just comes at you. There is almost no cast time, so after stacking if you are unlucky he can just 1 shot you. If not, he can even target you again, and kill you.

It is random. Random = luck.

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The only things random are what attack he's doing and to whom he's doing them. Getting hit and dying has nothing to do with luck and everything to do with having bad reaction speed or reading the monster's movement.

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Originally Posted by Osteichthyes

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So, just like Monster Hunter, when you first go from low rank to high rank, or high rank to g rank (and g rank having flat out kill combos where monsters purposely go after you if you get hit, pretty similar to this Rathalos). There's a reason why Monster Hunter was considered a super niche game. It's high learning curve and punishing playstyle kept out a lot of people. However, to say it isn't fun, well, that's an opinion that will change per person.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

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We don't have dodge roll with invincibility frames, but we have a much longer, move telegraph than what is in MonHan.

There's always been adds in MonHan. They actually toned down how annoying they were and scaled up how much damage monsters did to each other. This video is almost not an exaggeration (this monster is a konchu). The XIV team did a really good job of spoofing elements of Monster Hunter that is very much, well, Monster Hunter. What amuses me is apparently, Bahamut (even Ultimate) doesn't intimidate us enough to render healing magic null and void, but this strange wyvern does.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Oh well, it's not like there are resistances in monster hunter...

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Eh, there's resistances, but all it really means is will you take full life from a single fire ball, or only 90% of your HP?

But yeah, if the event is just stressing you out, just put it on the back burner. It's not like it's going away soon.

Been mostly doing the fight as a SCH, and sometimes on RDM. Personally like the double tank, 1 DPS, 1 healer method, but have done the normal method as well. If you need tips, can post screenshots with advice. Or wait 'til someone makes a guide and, hopefully, points out some of the finer things (like someone said, pretty stand on Rathalos's left side to avoid a lot of his attacks, never stand in front of him, etc.).

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Originally Posted by AxHell

Yes there are ???

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Sarcasm.
Google that. You'll learn a thing or two.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

We don't have dodge roll with invincibility frames, but we have a much longer, move telegraph than what is in MonHan.

There's always been adds in MonHan. They actually toned down how annoying they were and scaled up how much damage monsters did to each other. This video is almost not an exaggeration (this monster is a konchu). The XIV team did a really good job of spoofing elements of Monster Hunter that is very much, well, Monster Hunter. What amuses me is apparently, Bahamut (even Ultimate) doesn't intimidate us enough to render healing magic null and void, but this strange wyvern does.

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Except this isn't "MonHan", this is "Eff-eff-Ex-Ai-Vee", we already have enough fights with adds in them. Honestly, I was fine with the Garula because it's a nice tank buster spammer that feels "ok" but those sheep and coeurl and Yamaa just feel a nuisance. They're not even hard: they're just there to annoy you.
And again you can't replicate a combat that's supposed to be action with a tab-targetting system that's supposed to feel like a turn based rpg. It simply doesn't feel smooth or fast like, for example, GW2.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Eh, there's resistances, but all it really means is will you take full life from a single fire ball, or only 90% of your HP?

Been mostly doing the fight as a SCH, and sometimes on RDM. Personally like the double tank, 1 DPS, 1 healer method, but have done the normal method as well.

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As far as I'm concerned, 10% of hp left is better 0% hp left.
Correct me if I'm wrong here because I don't know in which universe instakill is better than 10% left of energy. Plus you can still dodge and once you learn the patterns you can dodge "ok" (pretty much like any action game really). I learned the patterns in ffxiv but I still get hit at random for no reason.

And pretty much the same here: we had 2 tanks and 1 dps/healer with massive hp so they could survive the insta-kill attack. I could basically dodge all of his attacks by the end of the day - even though his fire-attack was so sudden and random that i still get hit - and my team was able to survive ONLY because of their hp pool. Any other team that I had couldn't survive a single hit and they had average gear.
And the ex fight is supposed to be for ilvl 350! Will be tons of fun with that...

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

But yeah, if the event is just stressing you out, just put it on the back burner. It's not like it's going away soon.

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Like I need to be told that, but I suppose I forgot that in the forums you only speak of the goodness and sunshine and never of the issues.

What can I say, enjoy the fight: I'm going back to monster hunter.
The REAL one.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

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I'm aware it isn't Monster Hunter, but I'm pointing out that the way this fight was designed, you don't need it. Monster literally does a stance for 3+ seconds before it attacks. The Garula felt like the worst bit and the least Monster Hunter- like, especially with that big fireball, but hey, opinions. I mean, FFXIV is more action combat than turn based. You have AoEs to dodge and some mechanics that are random (the only thing that could emulate turned based would be just the simple fact that all of the fights are scripted).

My point of the resistances was it made very little difference in that game. They only really came into play with armor, because all armor has a varying degree of elemental resistance meant to mimic the monster. Have -15 or -20 thunder defence? Yeah, you're 1 shot (unless your defense is just THAT high). Some monsters (like Arch Tempered Kirin), you could have as much thunder resistance as you can have and you're still one shot (except mantles are a thing in MHW, which mostly negate that now). It's just how the game is. The event mimics it.

Nah, I don't speak of only the good things. I do think a lot of players complain over trivial things or simply things they don't like. Like this event, for instance. It's fine you don't like it or anyone else, really, but it's for the fans of Monster Hunter, which you clearly aren't. That's cool. I know all of my friends that play Monster Hunter have been pretty much singing their praises of this fight. I like it, even though, yeah, I don't like the adds (but it still mimics stuff in MH, so I'm neutral about it being there). It's not an actual issue, just people not liking the fight. For stuff I don't like, I tend to not actually complain on a forum about stuff I don't like and just don't actually do them (because I know people are out there that take pleasure in an activity I don't like). That's probably why you think I only talk about good things.

Just like I knew a ton of people that liked the GARO and Yo-kai events (the latter being one I completely hated). Different strokes for different folks.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Sarcasm.
Google that. You'll learn a thing or two.

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You must be really fun to hang out with....

Maybe Voltyblast should Google "how to calm down."

This fight has pushed my BLM skill to the limit.
Must dodge everything while sustain my dps as high as possible.
I hate that dive though ... my 250 ping barely dodge that shit.
I can’t even drop my concentration even for a second.

I can just play melee and stick at his left flank to avoid all thoses shits I said above though-
But it feel so good when I can dodge everything and do high dps in the fight that forced me to move a lot.

Even A3S as blm i didn’t have to move this much.

The fight really shows how unsatisfying dodging is in FFXIV. We just move to sides or in/out it's so slooow and boring. And FFXIVs funny netcode can sometimes get you hit when you looked clear of an attack. The fight would be fun if our ability to evade was always present, not restricted to some job skills only a few Jobs get such as DRGs backflip and BLMs somewhat functional teleport and even those are on long enough cooldowns to not be viable all the time. Again, this fight just highlights XIVs unsatisfying combat in terms or being able to react swiftly to an incoming attack.

I doubt they'll ever add an ever-present ability for all jobs to evade an attack via diving, roll dodging or w/e type of dodge that fits the Job. But who knows, this fight like I said twice before, highlights XIVs unsatisfying combat in terms of evading attacks.

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Originally Posted by Riko_Futatabi

The fight really shows how unsatisfying dodging is in FFXIV. We just move to sides or in/out it's so slooow and boring. And FFXIVs funny netcode can sometimes get you hit when you looked clear of an attack. The fight would be fun if our ability to evade was always present, not restricted to some job skills only a few Jobs get such as DRGs backflip and BLMs somewhat functional teleport. Again, this fight just highlights XIVs unsatisfying combat in terms or being able to react swiftly to an incoming attack.

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That I agree with, people who haven't played action games wouldn't get it but fights like this are very exciting when you have to time evades, moving to the side on top of dealing with long cast times makes it not fun.

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Originally Posted by Riko_Futatabi

The fight really shows how unsatisfying dodging is in FFXIV. We just move to sides or in/out it's so slooow and boring.

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You put your [right leg] in,
You put your [right leg] out;
You put your [right leg] in,
And you shake it all about.
You do the hokey pokey,
And you turn yourself around.
That's what it's all about!

- Every FF14 boss fight ever.

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Originally Posted by PerrinTaveren

The problem is, fight is so random and mostly luck based, (it literally flew towards me the moment i spawned after death which i can't react THAT fast), i find it really REALLY bothersome to kill this thing 50 times.

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Welcome to Monster Hunter. As a MH vet, his animations are pretty much the same as the real version so I managed to dodge his attacks going in blind. It just takes practice. I love this event.

i consider rathalos EX is perfect, the fight is easy and dont have any complicated mechanic, ppl need to learn to watch and react better, but i will admit this kind of fight benefict more the phisical ranged more that any onther job.

Fighting a Rathalos as melee in MH is considerably less annoying then in XIV due to the fact that it mostly can't hit you with its grounded close range attacks if you hug its feet, while no such dead zone exists in XIV. They tried to compensate by giving it considerably longer tells before most of its attacks but it still feels a smidge unnatural to get hit by its tail from positions that would normally be safe against other tail swiping monsters.

On the plus side, being able to reliably hit it while it's airborne is convenient. In MH, you usually resort to knocking it down via flash bombs, status effects, or mounting it, since poking at its tail until falls down is a lot harder when you need to actually aim at it while it's flailing around as opposed to just standing near its big circular hitbox in XIV.

I tried it with a couple of groups and the patterns are not really that hard. Just having him targeted will tell you who he is going to attack the minute he does if your close range run underneath him to his back or side step around him asap. Range is a bit easier however it is double with close combat DPS. The only reason we kept wiping was because people seem to have really no experience with the patterns. When asked if how many times you did the previous one most did it 2-7 times. At a minimum people should do the normal one until they don't die or don't use potions. It took me 35 tries to be able to do it with out using potions, and dodging 90% of his attacks.If you can manage not dying or using potions this one is just faster pace with a few new twist. Sure having some MH experience helps too bad you need people for this that actually know what it means to dodge and side step.

It's a lot of fun but agree the hit boxes are terrible and the wonky netcode, plus just about every single person doing it at the same time resulting in weird lag for many of my group, results in a lot of unnecessary deaths.

There totally is luck based on this, the luck being that you don't get in a party of idiots who don't know how to dodge. It's also extremely unfair on PS4 players, it's like Titan EX all over again where you have split second decisions to make and PS4 players have enough of a lag spike that they get killed even when to them they're running even before the dragon turns on them.

I was expecting this. People complaining a 5 minute fight where the main point is just to live is too hard.

Explains so much.

It's a nice addition to the game for variety. I like that the collab made them design a battle in a different way than they'd normally design trials.
I think it's going to be too easy when we outgear it, since it's more a potency battle than mechanics. If you can get hit by anything and not die then it will be simple for everyone who wants the mount to get it regardless of reaction times or lag.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

I was expecting this. People complaining a 5 minute fight where the main point is just to live is too hard.

Explains so much.

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I play both games and I have to agree. It's an entirely different mindset since MH is about finding openings and exploiting them and FFxiv is about decreasing downtime as much as possible and hugging the boss. I watched a Monk die at least a dozen times bc he refused to get off the boss during tail swipes. We melee just have to accept 100% uptime is not the goal in this fight.

Rathalos and Behemoth in MHW have the same problem, they shove a different gameplay in their game, make it work and call it "difficult challenge" but in the end its just hard because the counter existing in the original game are not here.

You don't care about getting the monster attention in world cause its alway like that, its all about positioning, hitting the soft spot and getting away of every move it throw at you cause its going to hurt.

Its not about managing your potion, its about coming ready for it. Potion are here to remind you you f***ed too much and you have to learn from it.

MHW is all about stun lock the monster to death and erase him from existence part by part, càc player don't have it that bad in world cause hitting the good spot will flinch him and Rathalos don't rush that much anyway (not like his wife... damn those stupid Rathian and Paolumu too, damn I hate them so much for that).

Who the hell let a Rathalos fly anyway ? They don't have flashpod in Eorzea ? The warrior of light is unable to make some to blind a flying lizard ?

If i wanted to hunt a Rathalos just like in MHW I just start MHW and hunt them... And I make myslef a new mantle with the still warm flesh of all of its family to get revenge on those stupid hitbox.

Hunting is a beautiful dance of death, MHW go back home you 're drunk.

Rathalos is for baby anyway, bing me a Nergigante so we start having fun ! You want broken hitboxes ? you choose the wrong lizard...

Bring us a Tempered Deviljho and see if the ascien are still okay with it outperforming them in avery way... I want to see Deviljho vs primal turf war so bad...

I don't mind the fight and the dodging is just something you have to get used to so I don't feel it is hard to get a clear at least.

But personally the thing I don't like is that you literally have to stare at the screen for the entire fight with little to no breaks and the longer it takes the more taxing it is.

If you blink at the wrong time you might end up getting hit if he targets you....and I really think that that is a bit too much.

Even doing the fight one time is kind of exhausting on my eyes because there isn't much of a break in the fight, he is constantly targeting and if you aren't staring at him you'll miss it and cause KOs.

Makes the fight hard to farm for me which kind of makes it not super fun either since I like farming stuff usually.

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Originally Posted by Miste

I don't mind the fight and the dodging is just something you have to get used to so I don't feel it is hard to get a clear at least.

But personally the thing I don't like is that you literally have to stare at the screen for the entire fight with little to no breaks and the longer it takes the more taxing it is.

If you blink at the wrong time you might end up getting hit if he targets you....and I really think that that is a bit too much.

Even doing the fight one time is kind of exhausting on my eyes because there isn't much of a break in the fight, he is constantly targeting and if you aren't staring at him you'll miss it and cause KOs.

Makes the fight hard to farm for me which kind of makes it not super fun either since I like farming stuff usually.

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what game are you playing where you are not looking at the screen?

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

what game are you playing where you are not looking at the screen?

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I think you misunderstood something here....?

Looking at the screen is one thing.

Staring at it trying not to blink for fear of getting hit is another.

The dodge times are very tight if you don't react immediately you're going to get hit and you never know when he is going to attack you, which is fine since that is the style of the fight, it just isn't the usual FFXIV style which is scripted mechanics and/or small periods during a fight where you actually need to watch for random telepgraphs or pointed attacks. IE O7S Guardian Magitek Beam (he uses it at scripted times so you eventually learn when you need to watch for it instead of constantly staring at the boss the entire fight afraid of if he'll aim it at you)

I just personally find it hard on the eyes to stare and keep my eyes on the boss at all times so I don't die since I am not used to that style much in this game.