Can Raise be fixed?

As the title suggests, can the raise spells be fixed so that if the target already has the effect, it cannot be reapplied by someone else. It's annoying as hell to waste swiftcast and the high MP to raise someone that already has it on.

Have you tried using a macro to inform your Party you are using raise? I mean i generally double check after using Swiftcast that no one else is going to do the Rez first, because if they do I can atleast use it for an aoe buff or something.

Technically any Rez is a temporary status effect and each time it's reapplied resets the timer, which can be used strategically in some situations.

Macros aren't a fail-safe way to inform the party. There's the enemy lines that mess it up, system messages, maybe your FC or linkshells spamming you, and not even sound effects are a guarantee since the game might be muted.

Well it's kind of basic communication to be fair, unless you are playing with a static or on voice chat or whatever it really should come as no surprise if a another player makes your intended rez unless. Sure Macros aren't perfect but it's one way to inform the party rather than having to fix one minor status effect because some people get prissy that they waste MP (which unless you are doing content where MP is too valuable to lose then it's easily gained back again, it's really not the end of the world...).

It's annoying when another of the same job overwrites my buffs that have only just gone up (Litany, Devotion etc) but it happens you know, should they be blocked from being used until the timer expires? It's no different to Rez.

When you're in a full party, most often 24 player raids, you can have up to 7 players who can raise and not all of them will be able to communicate. That's a lot of mp going on that one poor soul who might not even be present there to accept the raise. And if it keeps happening, as it tends to happen in 24 player raids, your party's fubbernuked

Unfortunately that's 24 man raids for you, and Eureka is even worse in that most players seems to be fight over who gets the rez out first to the dead target. Wasting a bit of MP in those raids sometimes cannot be avoided, you could do an alliance wide macro but again it may not work correctly or someone might ignore it/not see it. If nearly 7 players keep trying to jostle for the rezzes then eventually someone needs to use common sense and either just stop and let someone else do it, or say something about it in the party chat. MP management is really something that should be learned while progressing through the game, but I suppose that is a little too optimistic isn't it.

Which is exactly why the request is to take that responsibility away from the players who have no easy way of handling it, especially in pugs, and put it on the system. MP management has nothing to do with it. Casting raise on a dead member of your party is what you're supposed to do, especially if no one else in the alliance communicated their intent of raising the same target as you. So why should you be punished for doing your job?

They could just add a accompanying debuff called "Recently Resurrected: This player has been recently resurrected." This will stop players from being able to cast raise on said person while the debuff is active. The debuff is removed if the player cancels or accepts the raise or if the raise is somehow removed either due to dcing, etc. Make the debuff 10s or longer whichever works better. It should also not affect Healer LB3 (it should have priority so even if you have that debuff you still get the benefits of HLB3/auto raise).

It might not stop all cases due to how animations and buff/debuff activation work, two people casting it at the exact same time might still go through but it might stop some of the cases.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be in the system, if enough players request it then that's fine, but what I'm saying is there is plenty of ways to communicate actions. Clearly MP management DOES have something to do with it otherwise no one would complain that they have wasted MP in doing so (like OP's thread), don't disregard something that was in the original post.

Well technically a player doesn't have to rez anyone, or they can do nothing but rez every single dead target they find... it's called a playstyle, but that's really for a different thread. Anyway, duplicate rezzes happen for whatever the reason, and communication is an option that's all. But going back to what I said earlier about overwritten status buffs, why should a player doing their job (let's say using Battle Litany) be punished because another player does the same thing at around the same time? Wasting a cooldown is no different to wasting MP on a rez, so if there ever was a fix for this "raise issue", then surely it should be across the board and not just on one thing.

Or put basically :

Could we stop casting spells when they'll be inefective ? like raise on someone already raised or even spells on already dead mobs
Can believe we stil waste tima en MP on casting useless spells....

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Unfortunately that's 24 man raids for you, and Eureka is even worse in that most players seems to be fight over who gets the rez out first to the dead target. Wasting a bit of MP in those raids sometimes cannot be avoided, you could do an alliance wide macro but again it may not work correctly or someone might ignore it/not see it. If nearly 7 players keep trying to jostle for the rezzes then eventually someone needs to use common sense and either just stop and let someone else do it, or say something about it in the party chat. MP management is really something that should be learned while progressing through the game, but I suppose that is a little too optimistic isn't it.

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The situation isn't going to be helped by having your own raise macro. The problem is none of the other players use a macro so everyone is working in the dark. If you display your party you will see a raise status by the player but there is often enough lag that you will still have multiple players attempt to raise. This is why the system is the best one to handle the decision of which raise executes and which is ignored.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

I'm not saying it shouldn't be in the system, if enough players request it then that's fine, but what I'm saying is there is plenty of ways to communicate actions. Clearly MP management DOES have something to do with it otherwise no one would complain that they have wasted MP in doing so (like OP's thread), don't disregard something that was in the original post.

Well technically a player doesn't have to rez anyone, or they can do nothing but rez every single dead target they find... it's called a playstyle, but that's really for a different thread. Anyway, duplicate rezzes happen for whatever the reason, and communication is an option that's all. But going back to what I said earlier about overwritten status buffs, why should a player doing their job (let's say using Battle Litany) be punished because another player does the same thing at around the same time? Wasting a cooldown is no different to wasting MP on a rez, so if there ever was a fix for this "raise issue", then surely it should be across the board and not just on one thing.

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I'm not that concerned about MP usage. It has more to do with wasted CD's. I waste one on a DPS because of duplicate raises and a few moments later need to raise a healer but it I'm on CD so have to cast a long raise and hopefully not die standing still for an eternity. Yes this could also occur where I was the only one doing the raises but in DF content it is more likely caused by duplicate raises.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

As the title suggests, can the raise spells be fixed so that if the target already has the effect, it cannot be reapplied by someone else. It's annoying as hell to waste swiftcast and the high MP to raise someone that already has it on.

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Use the Swiftraise party game macro that tries every player after the player you targeted. If there's nobody to raise, then you've only wasted Swiftcast.

There should never be a circumstance in the game where you need to constantly be raising the same player, but it happens. Particularly co-healers in 24-player content, who get stuck in a loop of "recover, use refresh-die-recover-no mp to do anything-die on the next mechanic"

I'll never understand people who actively argue against reasonable QoL requests. What's the point? Is it just to be contrary, or do they feel like the dev team somehow needs their protection from people asking them to do their job?

This would be a great fix to make, if they could find the time for it. Anyone who plays a Healer regularly has said a few curses over a wasted swiftcast. Macros don't really help if you both go to raise at the same time, or if there are multiple people down and you both target the same person.

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Originally Posted by Celef

Or put basically :

Could we stop casting spells when they'll be inefective ? like raise on someone already raised or even spells on already dead mobs
Can believe we stil waste tima en MP on casting useless spells....

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SE would need to change the netcode for that, the reason you can still do actions or cast stuff on dead monsters is because the servers are slow in confirming something happened.

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Originally Posted by Lukha

I'll never understand people who actively argue against reasonable QoL requests. What's the point? Is it just to be contrary, or do they feel like the dev team somehow needs their protection from people asking them to do their job?

This would be a great fix to make, if they could find the time for it. Anyone who plays a Healer regularly has said a few curses over a wasted swifter. Macros don't really help if you both go to raise at the same time, or if there are multiple people down and you both target the same person.

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And what would you suggest, a refund of MP on any cast that fails? That is what this boils down to. If you cast raise/resurrect/etc on a player, there is already an icon that says they have a raise pending. It's not the developers fault players are unwilling to look at the player in the party before they start casting. The issue is really that Swiftcast is even a separate thing. Bake Swiftcast into raise, and have the swift part function like a proc, if you aren't raising someone every 60 seconds, it'll always be there.

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Originally Posted by Lukha

I'll never understand people who actively argue against reasonable QoL requests. What's the point? Is it just to be contrary, or do they feel like the dev team somehow needs their protection from people asking them to do their job?

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At least it's usually the same people, and once you see the pattern you can put them on ignore and then go back to actually discussing things that might or might not improve the game. My forum experience got a lot better after I started doing that.

One good thing about rdm can duel cast raise or your heal then raise to short it. But feel sorry for healers they only get swift cast with long cd. They should make it cancel spell if monster is dead or player has raise effect on them.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

One good thing about rdm can duel cast raise or your heal then raise to short it. But feel sorry for healers they only get swift cast with long cd. They should make it cancel spell if monster is dead or player has raise effect on them.

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Bleh. I'd rather hard-cast a raise than have the RDM raise.

I'd rather SE just gave the healers a combat res that is instant and takes no MP. Can or cannot have a set number of uses (if no restriction on the number of available uses, place it on a cooldown, since most healers treat ressing as impossible without swiftcast anyway).

Have you tried not having your party members die?

Honestly it's part of the skill of the game.

Watch the other healer cast bar.
Watch to make sure target doesn't have effect yet.
Communication.

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Originally Posted by Lukha

I'll never understand people who actively argue against reasonable QoL requests. What's the point? Is it just to be contrary, or do they feel like the dev team somehow needs their protection from people asking them to do their job?

This would be a great fix to make, if they could find the time for it. Anyone who plays a Healer regularly has said a few curses over a wasted swifter. Macros don't really help if you both go to raise at the same time, or if there are multiple people down and you both target the same person.

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Few things with this one, first of all people may resist a QoL change if it does not match their self interest, and Se is part to blame on this. "Server limitations" is hard over and over so people may feel the need to "fight" for their QoL wants over another because "Server limitations"

Having some kind of pop up is a bad idea since the game is slow with menus and such. I really do not have an idea how to address this from a programing standpoint other then do not cast raise right away, see if someone else does first, a sec or 2 not long then use it.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

Have you tried not having your party members die?

Honestly it's part of the skill of the game.

Watch the other healer cast bar.
Watch to make sure target doesn't have effect yet.
Communication.

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Having people not get oneshoted is part of the game too but that happens, healers cannot completely prevent someone from dying. (rescue has a recast too)
swiftcast raise has no cast bar
server latency and besides you both could hit it at the same time.
rarely works in pugs.

Something to prevent double-casting raises would be great, though this brings to mind a question.

Is there a way to announce what target is being raised if it's just a mouse-over, like a target=mouseover tag? If there isn't, I wonder if a good chunk of double-casting is that, or if there is, is it just not common knowledge (which would be the case for me).

I wish rez was faster. It's sooo slow! I was recently in the Royal Menagerie and three times in a row by the time the "rezzing" was done and I was alive, there was a new AoE down that instantly killed me. In that particular trial, you are required to run a looooong way to a safe spot to avoid death- from one corner to the other. My Sprint and Mana Ward both have pretty decent cool downs.

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Originally Posted by Nabril

I wish rez was faster. It's sooo slow! I was recently in the Royal Menagerie and three times in a row by the time the "rezzing" was done and I was alive, there was a new AoE down that instantly killed me. In that particular trial, you are required to run a looooong way to a safe spot to avoid death- from one corner to the other. My Sprint and Mana Ward both have pretty decent cool downs.

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You’re invulnerable for a set amount of time after accepting a raise as long as you perform no actions (you can still move). It’s a good idea imo to not take an action until you’ve gotten a heal so as to avoid dying as soon as you raise. You have 60 seconds to accept a raise as well so if a mechanic is coming out that would kill you if you couldn’t dodge in time you can also not accept the raise until it’s over.

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Originally Posted by Eclipse12187

You’re invulnerable for a set amount of time after accepting a raise as long as you perform no actions (you can still move). It’s a good idea imo to not take an action until you’ve gotten a heal so as to avoid dying as soon as you raise. You have 60 seconds to accept a raise as well so if a mechanic is coming out that would kill you if you couldn’t dodge in time you can also not accept the raise until it’s over.

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Keep in mind things like Sprint, Jump, Auto-attack, Target Forward, and Target Back are also actions. People don't stick them on hotbars because they usually have their own dedicated keys. It's literally do nothing but move (wasd).

It's fine as it is, because that is part of the "communication" that needs exists between players. Double raise/swiftcast killing is just one consequence of the lack-of/bad communication between players.

Let's go to the root of the problem and educate the dead player to avoid dying next time.