Limit Breaks in solo duties

After doing a certain duty at the end of the most recent patch I couldn't help but wonder why we never actually got to use limit breaks in our solo duties in general. Npcs have used limit breaks countless times in the past especially in stormblood duties and it makes me as a WoL feel every so slightly less powerful than my npc allies.

I wanna feel the power too dang it! Let me lb3 a baddie in a duty to show the full might of the WoL while my npc pals respond with "gods what power!!" So in can get the full immersive experience! Ah...but I'm sure that would mean more work making solo duties to account for fact that theres multiple jobs and they'd have to make scenarios to fit each role specific lb and what not.... I still want this though...

Well, if we did that. the problem would be that

1. The encounter doesn't last anywhere near long enough to get LB 1-3 and there was no point to having it

2. The encounter HAS to last long enough to get LB 1-3 and it just gets stale having to fight X person or army or what have you for 5 mins to press a button and either win the fight, or NOW you can do the fight

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Originally Posted by Hypnotic13371337

Well, if we did that. the problem would be that

1. The encounter doesn't last anywhere near long enough to get LB 1-3 and there was no point to having it

2. The encounter HAS to last long enough to get LB 1-3 and it just gets stale having to fight X person or army or what have you for 5 mins to press a button and either win the fight, or NOW you can do the fight

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That isn't accurate, there have been multiple fights now where killing certain enemies replenish an LB bar. There's no reason they couldn't implement that same system in solo duties.
The only limitation is their imagination, saying it's difficult for them to implement LB in a solo duty is silly. It would be difficult because they have to account for every possible job? They already have to do that when they organize solo duties.

It's literally their job. It's what they are getting paid to do.

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

It would be difficult because they have to account for every possible job? They already have to do that when they organize solo duties.

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I’m not sure they do much to account for different jobs in solo instances. Maybe they adjust enemy HP for different classes (or maybe they don’t) but playing solo as a caster always involves endless running in circles because tank-NPCs don’t hold enmity for you to fight properly. I don’t feel like it’s designed with consideration for anything other than melee-range fighters.

Tank NPC's hold aggro quite well, actually. So well that even in tank stance and using aggro combo pulling the mobs off of them is a challenge, so casters should have no chance.

However, what does happen is that tank NPC's focus on one enemy and do not grab stray mobs if there are more. Using AoE will therefore pull some mobs away.


That being said, there aren't always tank NPC's to begin with. And by tank NPC's I specifically mean NPC's meant to soak damage that would be too much for some classes, rather than NPC's that represent tank classes.


As for accounting for varied classes, they just do blanket balancing. They make the mobs have low enough HP to be viable to kill for healers and tanks in reasonable time, while low enough in damage to not kill the melee/NPC's. That's why some classes can make duties laughable (like Paladin that can take a lot of beating all the while healing himself or Red Mage that can deal out lots of damage all the while healing himself).


As for the thread, I would love for limit break to be individual skill altogether, not only in duties. It was always, in every other game, an individual skill of the characters. I don't understand why it's tied to the party in this game, and in such a way that it cannot even be used fully in smaller duties/fights.

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Originally Posted by Vanitas

After doing a certain duty at the end of the most recent patch I couldn't help but wonder why we never actually got to use limit breaks in our solo duties in general. Npcs have used limit breaks countless times in the past especially in stormblood duties and it makes me as a WoL feel every so slightly less powerful than my npc allies.

I wanna feel the power too dang it! Let me lb3 a baddie in a duty to show the full might of the WoL while my npc pals respond with "gods what power!!" So in can get the full immersive experience! Ah...but I'm sure that would mean more work making solo duties to account for fact that theres multiple jobs and they'd have to make scenarios to fit each role specific lb and what not.... I still want this though...

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I find it strange that a man with your signature is asking for a limit break 3 in a solo instance.

I personally like that LBs are limited to group content to be honest. In my opinion, those are truly the epic moments where the warriors of light would need to call upon such an ability.

I guess it would be pretty cool to just go

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DixlUAqUYAEK07T.jpg:large

During an instanced fight.

If Alphinaud can do a limit break in his solo duty then so should we.

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

The only limitation is their imagination, saying it's difficult for them to implement LB in a solo duty is silly. It would be difficult because they have to account for every possible job? They already have to do that when they organize solo duties.

It's literally their job. It's what they are getting paid to do.

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Not all LBs do the same amount of damage, hell some of them don't even DO damage. It'd be impossible to implement an LB requirement in a duty without forcing the player to use a certain class, which is exactly what they did in the final duty for 4.3.

Absolutely. I'd like to have that powerful feeling with my character more. FF14 tends to lack that.

Perhaps make it so the Limit Break button becomes a personal Limit Break outside of instances and parties, that deals a bit less damage but still hits hard, looks flashy and deals damage for all roles.

The worse thing about solo duties is that there are regularly constant mechs to deal with that often give you little time to actually stand around to use an LB to begin with. Some instances such as the recent Lakshimi and Tataru solos literally had you running around a lot or paying attention to the NPCs, and the Zenos ones had their fair share of challenges for some players.

If there was an LB to use solo it needs to be something were we actually get given a timeframe to use it, and ideally they should have seperate animations to what you would normally use in party content, a bit like how Ungarmax is unique for squadrons.

Let's say the NPCs are in a party, and you're solo.

I usually play Healer and Tank, I would not feel good being able to do my limit break since it does no damage.
I think that they don't need to change anything.

I would really love the introduction of the Adrenaline bar to all solo play (and with your chocobo out).

They already have the "universal solo" limit break in the game as Ungarmax. No matter what class you play, when you do squadron dungeons, you have Ungarmax to use. Just do the same thing for solo instances and let every class do Ungarmax when the lb bar is filled.

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Originally Posted by Espritduo

They already have the "universal solo" limit break in the game as Ungarmax. No matter what class you play, when you do squadron dungeons, you have Ungarmax to use. Just do the same thing for solo instances and let every class do Ungarmax when the lb bar is filled.

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Would also be nice for just mob grinding and FATE grinding in the overworld. And yeah, just give us all Ungermax. That would be the simplest solution to the "role" problem.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Tank NPC's hold aggro quite well, actually. So well that even in tank stance and using aggro combo pulling the mobs off of them is a challenge, so casters should have no chance.

However, what does happen is that tank NPC's focus on one enemy and do not grab stray mobs if there are more. Using AoE will therefore pull some mobs away.

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Ah, that would explain it. So I need to be careful about focusing on single targets for solo duties then? It's prettymuch the opposite of how we're taught to play the rest of the time, with AoE skills and summoner's DoT-spreading ability.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

Would also be nice for just mob grinding and FATE grinding in the overworld. And yeah, just give us all Ungermax. That would be the simplest solution to the "role" problem.

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But is Ungarmax an exciting skill to see? (I haven't trained my squadron so have no idea.) That's the main appeal of having it made available in solo content - having a big flashy attack that does a lot of damage.

That special instance seemed to be set up so you'd have a full bar at the particular time in the fight, ready to use on those tethers.



I'd really love some way to see the visuals of the limit break 'on demand' instead of maybe getting to use it in a dungeon and maybe having it be the hit that kills the boss so you can mess around with /gpose after. A multiplayer dungeon is not the time to be standing around admiring the pretty effects.

Perhaps there could be some kind of 'dummy command' in the general actions that lets you set off a zero-damage version of limit break level 1, 2 or 3 just to see it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Ah, that would explain it. So I need to be careful about focusing on single targets for solo duties then? It's prettymuch the opposite of how we're taught to play the rest of the time, with AoE skills and summoner's DoT-spreading ability.

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It's the fault of the developers. They neglected AI of NPC's in duties for years. Only in scholars ~60lvl duties could you notice NPC's actually showing some sensibility beyond "attack the enemy, spam skills unmoving, kill, move on".

There are multiple sorts of instances however (or rather, you could divide them by their style).
Ones where there are waves of weak mobs for warriors to deal with, while the NPC's "tank" the strong ones. There you are meant to deal with the weak ones and you ain't gonna get a tank whatsoever. Especially if there are multiple NPC's does this come into play. Just ignore them until you kill everything that moves and is not on them initially, nothing you can do about aggro.

Ones where the NPC's are just meant to tank the big-bad. Usually these are the instances where NPC's will only really draw the strongest guys and the fodder will initially go for them, but you're going to draw aggro on them anyway. Killing them one by one will simply save you the headache of doing that with the whole mob at once, but then again...doing it too slowly may lead to the NPC being killed.

And the "tank" NPC's where they actually seem to hold some decent aggro on more than one. These I think to be quite rare by my memory...outside of tanks job quests, really...Some NPC's will actually use an AoE here or there. Unfortunately...some of them are scripted so that doesn't really help.


But yes. If you have problems actually managing the mobs aggroing on you, try to thin their numbers out by picking them off one by one first. Some of the fights have mostly fodder and the NPC's actually fight the fodder too, so focusing on these same mobs is as safe as it will get. You're not too likely to take aggro off of an NPC against a mob they actually target.

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Originally Posted by Nabril

I find it strange that a man with your signature is asking for a limit break 3 in a solo instance.

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That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand but sure take cheap and petty jab at me ;P

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Originally Posted by Hypnotic13371337

Well, if we did that. the problem would be that

1. The encounter doesn't last anywhere near long enough to get LB 1-3 and there was no point to having it

2. The encounter HAS to last long enough to get LB 1-3 and it just gets stale having to fight X person or army or what have you for 5 mins to press a button and either win the fight, or NOW you can do the fight

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You could always change the rate at which the LB is acquired based on the length of the duty. Even if it's only ever available as a coup de grâce, I think a lot of people would find that more interesting than finishing off the primary bad guy with something as anticlimactic as Fast Blade.

There was a cutscene with the WoDs where their WAR was the one to channel their very offensive LB. So roles are only a problem when SE wants them to be.
All they need to do is create a duty action that's the same across roles, that is only usable when you have a full gauge of LB and you're good to go (Lakshmi showed us duty actions can be conditional)

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Originally Posted by Vanitas

I wanna feel the power too dang it! Let me lb3 a baddie in a duty to show the full might of the WoL while my npc pals respond with "gods what power!!" So in can get the full immersive experience! Ah...but I'm sure that would mean more work making solo duties to account for fact that theres multiple jobs and they'd have to make scenarios to fit each role specific lb and what not.... I still want this though...

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Ueehhhh... Am I the only one who's starting to get tired of the WoL power fantasy getting more and more ridiculous? At this point I would be completely unsurprised if the WoL was revealed to be an eikon, summoned by the prayers of millions of incompetent, unmotivated layabouts who, instead of actually doing anything useful towards liberating their country, spent the last couple of decades waiting for someone to happen along and do it for them in a matter of weeks. Twice.

Honestly I think the parts I enjoyed the most was getting my butt handed to me by the big bad. I found that believable, I want more of that. I want the WoL's bids to accomplish impossible things to have predictable results more often and have our allies pick up the slack for a change to send a message about being stronger together or some such. *Shrug* Maybe I'm just weird.

Oh anyways! Back on-topic: solo LBs do sound like fun! Even if the meters were scripted, I'd like that feature just because it would look more stylish to end the duty with a bang instead of going through the same rotation over and over until everything dies. Tho tank and healer LBs probably would have to be different than their group-content versions, they don't make much sense without a party.

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

Honestly I think the parts I enjoyed the most was getting my butt handed to me by the big bad. I found that believable, I want more of that. I want the WoL\\'s bids to accomplish impossible things to have predictable results more often and have our allies pick up the slack for a change to send a message about being stronger together or some such.

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I couldn’t agree more! The amount of praise the WoL receives feels off-putting to me, and makes my character feel like it’s not a part of the world. Maybe that’s why I don’t have any interest in a solo LB, why need to prove how powerful I am when NPCs won’t stop going on and on about it?

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Originally Posted by Badicalde

I couldn’t agree more! The amount of praise the WoL receives feels off-putting to me, and makes my character feel like it’s not a part of the world. Maybe that’s why I don’t have any interest in a solo LB, why need to prove how powerful I am when NPCs won’t stop going on and on about it?

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Exactly! A lot of that praise feels like it's being directed at the player more than the character. And that feels wrong because I definitely didn't earn it. I'm not accomplishing 20 heroic deeds per minute because I'm working hard at it, no, heroic deeds just passively happen to me because my character in the story is an omnipotent Mary Sue and everyone ignores the fact that there's thousands of other adventurers running around, many of whom are more experienced and powerful than I. Oh, and they carry me through all the dungeons and boss fights. Why do I get all the credit? I don't deserve it so the constant praise feels dishonest.

In general, trying to tell a "chosen one" story in an MMO is just... inherently out of place. It might work in a single-player game but the narrative of an MMORPG should be about togetherness and jolly cooperation, not glorifying individual power and self-sufficiency.

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

In general, trying to tell a "chosen one" story in an MMO is just... inherently out of place. It might work in a single-player game but the narrative of an MMORPG should be about togetherness and jolly cooperation, not glorifying individual power and self-sufficiency.

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This is a single-player story in an MMO game. That's why there are so many solo-duties and what not.

And the Warrior of Light is one of "special" beings. It's very possible they are not of this world indeed. That can be seen at the beginning, when the character is literally floating through the...dimension?!... around Hydaelyn. It's again shown in the Heavensward storyline where Cid I believe reminiscences about an apparition that appeared to him and gave him goggles I believe when he fled Garlemard, which happened to be the Warrior of Light. As in, there's even time-travel motif in this game.

It is very likely that the Warrior of Light is actually some sort of ether given form, like Eikons, indeed, or maybe a consciousness of some past hero saved from by the mother crystal given body.


It's too bad, but there's little to no chance of the Warrior of Light being portrayed as anything short of a miracle when the story literally portrays it as a being chosen and blessed by the goddess. If anything, there being a crazy amount of overpowering characters like Zenos that can compete with him/her is making the story more ridiculous. Suddenly we find out that Garlemald have multitude of soldiers that could rip Eikons to shreds and deem it boring...Seriously?! So why exactly did they build huge airships and were trying to exterminate Eorzea for all those years out of fear for Eikons?!...That kind of power creep just to show challenge to the player is a problem. It shows inconsistency in the story. If they decided on the Warrior of Light being some sorta chosen, blessed, inhuman entity...they should stick with it. If they couldn't, they should have started with it being "simply" a fast-learning prodigy whose only real advantage in regards to others is immunity to tempering and cleverness.

Personally I like to see this function in Deep Dungeons as solo content relies too much on luck alone.