Halp! When to Use DPS Limit Breaks?

Asking here, because internet search was too varied and often out-of-date:

What I had thought to be the general guidelines of LB usage seem to have been borked slightly (bear in mind I'm just talking dungeons, mostly just the MSQ stuff and a few off-the-cuff Dzamael Darkholds, nothing much beyond that right now). For the record, my limited knowledge of LBs goes thus:

Melee DPS have single target/priority on bosses where adds are not a known issue; used when it won't bugger up your rotation thereby creating DPS loss, and when the lock isn't going to have something eat your face off;

Caster DPS is for when it's more expedient for mobs to be burned and have been placed in a nice circle, and/or tricksy adds in a boss phase which have also been arranged into a nice circle.

Ranged DPS when it's the month of Sundays, but has use on single boss targets if there's no adds to worry about, your other DPS is a caster/asleep/??? and LB says "pls use me, ty"; or... never had any other situations where I've had to think about it, but perhaps if there's adds arranged over a long column space and ...(halp!)?

I'm not concerned about the tank or healer LBs in this basic dungeon content, because if I see those, things have likely gone south already.

I main a bard, so LBs have never been too much of a concern, but as I'm levelling up a DRG (and also using a small army of DRG alts as sacrificial minions), I've seen ranged/caster LBs shot off on the second boss of the dungeon without any prior discussion, and the result has been the LB(2) not charging in full for the last boss. This is bugging me, as I've been more inclined to leave LBs for the melee DPS if I bard, unless they request otherwise.
In one recent instance the LB didn't seem really worth it as far as I could tell (caster LB in Sastasha, where the captain is just with two of his pals and then runs off), and then again in Brayflox (bard on the Tempest Biast; our collective DPS output didn't seem all that, so maybe that's why they did it? I wouldn't BRD LB there, so not sure).

I know these aren't really gamebreakers, but I really thought there was some sort of procedure to follow and these instances don't feel quite right. And so, what you all think some basic rules of LB decorum would be of great use, even if it's for later, harder content (as I go into those things every now and again, albeit only on BRD). I'm fully okay with learning new stuff, especially if I've had it wrong before!

Cheers, and much thanks for any help/advice! <3


TL;DR: When do I DRG (or other melee) LB, when do I use BRD (or MCH) LB, when do I use caster LB, and if the bar doesn't charge up fully to the second bar on the last boss is it okay for me to (quietly) gnash my DRG teeth (just to myself) and just use what's there anyway (damage is damage, after all)?

As a general guideline, melee use the limit break on bosses once it becomes available. There are exceptions for mechanics, like you want an AOE limit break for the stone golem adds in Hashmal, and you want to leave the LB 3 available for healers in new content.

For general dungeons, as a melee I try to use the LB 2 if it's available when the boss hits about 15% health remaining, so as not to waste any of the damage. If it's only one bar, I'll generally use it at about 5% health remaining. Mostly because I don't want using the limit break to cause me to lose job buffs, but do want to get the maximum damage from the hit as possible.

When it comes to other party content, the priority on single targets should be melee > caster > ranged as the caster LB does more damage to a single target than does the BRD/MCH. So the ranged physical should be used for cases you need an AOE LB and have no caster, or times when the caster LB circle isn't large enough, and the enemies are in a line, like the stone golems in Ridorana before the fight against Construct 7. They're already in a line, and a caster LB can't hit a whole group.

In dungeons, the most effective use of the LB is to AoE a trash group. For this reason, a melee DD paired with a caster/ranger should avoid using it immediately on the first boss. Consider that an AoE LB1 (just level 1) does more damage than a melee LB3 if there are 7 targets, or more damage than a melee LB2 if there are 4 targets, and you definitely don't get a melee LB3 option in a dungeon anyway, and it is uncommon to built up to LB2 while the last boss still has enough HP that the second bar would even make a difference...and the clear optimum is to AoE a trash pull. Then if it happens to fill up again before the last boss (even if it's immediately before the last boss) to AoE LB the trash again. Then if you manage to build another bar to hit the last boss with, melee LB the last boss.

That said, in any case, you're only shaving off maybe 15-45s from the run. So while the above is best, it's not worth arguing over.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

So the ranged physical should be used for cases you need an AOE LB and have no caster, or times when the caster LB circle isn't large enough, and the enemies are in a line, like the stone golems in Ridorana before the fight against Construct 7. They're already in a line, and a caster LB can't hit a whole group.

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Another good spot for that is in World of Darkness. The trash pull after the first boss has 2 sets of summoning circles in straight lines(which respawn halfway through) surrounding a central figure. A caster can hit 2 of the 3 from any of the 4 sets, a ranged can hit all 3. And while i dont know the potency for big shot off hand, id imagine its similar enough to skyshard that if you can hit 5 or 6 targets of a dungeon aoe pull then youre doing more damage then any melee LB would do to a dungeon boss. Harder to aim, but not a waste of time if you can do it.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

That said, in any case, you're only shaving off maybe 15-45s from the run. So while the above is best, it's not worth arguing over.

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This 1000%. Not using limits at all(or people using them stupidly) doesnt even add up to a full minute lost in most situations(obvious exceptions for newer full group content when a healer LB 3 can save a wipe and redoing the first 5-10 mins of a fight, or specific fights where not using a melee limit means not surviving a boss ultimate). Not worth stressing too much over, certainly not worth arguing about.

if someone DC's mid fight and you have 2 limit break bars melee use it asap because if they come back Itll just refresh the Limit break bar back to zero

It really just depends on the the dungeon and bosses mechanics that you are doing. Hlr lb's are totes needed for like WOD's cloud of darkness and generallly any 24 man raids at release. The DPS DoM lb is great to use when there are a lot of enemies alll bunched up and RNGD DPS lbs are great just because of their range. And, Melee DPS Do the most damage, so basically it's best used when You have to do DPS checks on single targets. Basically everything is as simple and easy to understand what to use what lb and when to use it

Sorry, I'm not that helpful but I generally don't touch the LB unless I'm told to lol. I mainly run lv. 70 end game dungeons and raids though. It's not very often that we ever need to use LB. Most people have these dungeons and raids down pretty well. I haven't tried the sigmascape Savage yet so that could change things. Usually the tank or healer will say use LB after this or that phase or DPS LB now lol. Just too many dungeons for me to know which one is okay for me to use it and when I should save it for the tank or Healer. I just do what I'm told. The only exception to that is when things go really bad and the boss (usually the last boss) and he's only got a bit of health left then I'll hit it and try to avoid a wipe. Sorry, I've just never gotten that used to using LB or when and if I should use it. It all just depends on the dungeons and mechanics to tell the truth. I've seen Healers use it more frequently. I'm a bard so maybe that's why. I'm rarely called on to use it whereas I see them asking melee dps to hit it more often. I can only remmeber a couple of bosses where everyone wanted me to use it at a certain time.

Everyone's answers are good, so I won't rehash them. I do have a couple extra things to add, however.

1) I'm generally on bard. If we're on the last boss and the other person is a melee DPS and we've been sitting on LB2 for a good 20+ seconds, I'll go ahead and use it. Far too often I see people just not use it at all.

2) If you have to choose between multiple people (of the same LB type) to execute the LB, it's better to have the weaker/undergeared person use it. This is because LB damage is based off of the sum of the entire party's weapons, so the weaker person would do the same damage as the stronger one, all the while you're letting the stronger person continue to do their DPS rotation instead of being stuck in LB animation. (Can someone please verify this info for me? I don't have an info source on this, and the last time I told it to someone they just laughed at me like I was wrong)


Follow-up question I've been wondering for some time now!

Which LB is stronger (or are they the same damage), Caster or Ranged? Also, if you know the answer to this, where are you getting your info from? I've looked for this answer a couple times and never successfully found it.

As a PLD it makes me cry inside when DPS do not use a full 2 bar limit break on the boss. I got so fed up I made a macro asking DPS to punch the boss in the face with a LB. I toss the macro out around 25% because by the time DPS use LB boss is around 15%. I use it on my RDM/BLM when melee do not use it and boss is around 20% because some would rather focus on their rotation than finish off the boss who has < 10% HP

Just to pop back in and say I'm reading everything, and taking it on board. I' will likely be posting again with conclusions thus far, and probably asking more questions. Thanks everyone! <3

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Originally Posted by Raldo

Which LB is stronger (or are they the same damage), Caster or Ranged? Also, if you know the answer to this, where are you getting your info from? I've looked for this answer a couple times and never successfully found it.

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I'll have to find the potencies again, for reference, so I'll update this with a source when I can find it, but caster has a higher potency. Ranged has a bigger area of effect to compensate.

Edit: Potencies for ranged physical limit breaks aren't published, so it's largely player experimentation that has shown that caster limit breaks are able to deal more damage. We know melee LB3 is a potency if 9,000 and caster is 6,150. It's currently believed that ranged physical is around 6,000 potency for all targets hit.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

2) If you have to choose between multiple people (of the same LB type) to execute the LB, it's better to have the weaker/undergeared person use it. This is because LB damage is based off of the sum of the entire party's weapons, so the weaker person would do the same damage as the stronger one, all the while you're letting the stronger person continue to do their DPS rotation instead of being stuck in LB animation. (Can someone please verify this info for me? I don't have an info source on this, and the last time I told it to someone they just laughed at me like I was wrong)

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So i dont have a source handy, but this is always more or less how i heard it too. It was either the sum or the average of the entire groups weapons, so the weaker person using it would be ideal.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

Which LB is stronger (or are they the same damage), Caster or Ranged? Also, if you know the answer to this, where are you getting your info from? I've looked for this answer a couple times and never successfully found it.

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So the answer would be that ive always anecdotally heard caster>ranged, with ranged getting better range to make up for it. But yeah, a quick search of a couple sites doesnt show potencies for the ranged LBs while i can find them for melee and caster.

Just popping back in; after reviewing the thread and the advice, I don't really have any more questions. I'm feeling more confident in firing off the LB when it pings if necessary, but am not going to stress about it if it interferes with rotation. I've run some dungeons since, and tested stuff out; haven't had the nerve to "steal" the LB from a melee when I'm ranged and they leave it late, but I'm not going to worry about it too much so long as I've done everything else I could do - I am, after all, still learning to play my main job and others.

Thanks again for the input here. I really appreciate it, and have bookmarked it for future reference! <3

if between p.ranged brd/mch and between m.ranged blm/rdm/smn..., let the brd/mch LB..., even if p.ranged LB is a bit weaker than the caster LB, it casts ca. 5 sec. faster

the casters usally have better aoe damage anyway, they can compensate when aoe-ing instead if LBing.., especially if you have a Blm

(Blm have strong aoe damage too, let them aoe instead .. and when Blm LB, they lose all their buffs too, astral and enochian..., kind of like Mnks, Mnks shouldn't melee LB if possible, let other melees LB if possible, Mnks lose GL, that can take long to get up again)

hated LBing on deltascape V3, had my T4 + proc and 2nd foul build up ready, but was forced to LB3 -_- (15 sec LB with animation lock) ... while the brd wansnt doing much aoe damage anyway..., could have just LBed too and kill enough adds, while I lost my atstal & enochian (+ 1 foul build up) everytime I LBed there..

..

ofc there are situations, where the caster "round" aoe is just much more practical or needed (UWU), .. but otherwise let the brd/mch LB instead of the casters when possible..

Just don't use it like a Drg did in Lighthouse yesterday. The player was so obsessed with using the lb before anyone else they decided to pop it during Disposal (like literally the moment the third bar filled, like he'd been waiting on it). Got himself and a few others killed because they couldn't see too well with the big glowy dragon blocking their screen and moved in the wrong direction.

So, basically pick a safe time to use it. You're locked in place for quite a while, especially for lb3. And they do blind the melee players (looking at you, Rdms!)

I just got berated by team members today for using the LB3 on Ninja when it came up during Byakko normal after the phase transition, due to it being "way too early". I judged the healers to be doing fine, no deaths or anything and it's not like Byakko gets suddenly way harder after that point, so I did it. Was able to get another Braver towards the end because of it. However, this goes to show that public opinion may differ quite a bit sometimes, so even if you go with all the advice in this thread, be prepared to get flak either way from people who have very set ideas about it.

On byakko... normal? If the healers were keeping up then theres no reason to sit on a limit in that fight. Those people were dumb. Taking flak from dumb people is a sign that youre probably doing something right(or something SO wrong that even they can tell i suppose, but not in this instance).

Generally speaking, I have always found that your window of opportunity to use a LB closes during the second boss fight. Ideally, you want to use it on a big trash pull prior to the second boss or at the very beginning of the fight so it can begin refilling asap, though it depends on the iLevel of the party. If everything is going relatively quickly, then its possible that you might not make back your second bar in time before damage gets wasted for the final boss - even if you use it right away on the second - so ideally you'd like to use it before that if possible. Also, most of the time it seems that people don't bother LB'ing until the final boss for some reason, so unless you're a bit shy at times like me, I think its safe to assume they might not even use it on the second boss as a melee and just go ahead and blow a hole in the trash pull beforehand if it looks worthwhile.


At the end of the day, LB is just a buff/skill with a long cooldown. No sense letting it go to waste. So if you can get it off twice or even three times during a dungeon, go for it and try not to worry too much about what people think. Its hardly a big deal even if you use it a bit ineffectively and anyone who tries to give you hassle over that in a normal dungeon has bigger problems that need addressing frankly.

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Originally Posted by Knahli

Generally speaking, I have always found that your window of opportunity to use a LB closes during the second boss fight.

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It doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

if it happens to fill up again before the last boss (even if it's immediately before the last boss) to AoE LB the trash again.

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In a typical last boss fight, the second bar will fill when the boss has so little HP left that a single bar would have killed him. But assume anyway that you would a second bar. A melee LB2 would not do as much damage as an AoE LB1 on 4-8 trash mobs. If there's no melee DD, an AoE LB1 on any trash group would do more damage than an AoE LB2 on the boss.

There is no such "closing" on the LB window. If there is a caster or ranger in the party, it is appropriate to LB any trash group of 4 or more. If there are only casters/rangers in the party, LBing anything that isn't a boss is better than LBing the boss.

Honestly, Limit Breaks are rarely even necessary and particularly in dungeons they are just a bonus if/when you use them. If you can't survive without a limit break, there are larger issues than when it was used. I don't feel as though it really requires planning or thoughtful communication unless you're running high-difficulty endgame content.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

It doesn't.


In a typical last boss fight, the second bar will fill when the boss has so little HP left that a single bar would have killed him. But assume anyway that you would a second bar. A melee LB2 would not do as much damage as an AoE LB1 on 4-8 trash mobs. If there's no melee DD, an AoE LB1 on any trash group would do more damage than an AoE LB2 on the boss.

There is no such "closing" on the LB window. If there is a caster or ranger in the party, it is appropriate to LB any trash group of 4 or more. If there are only casters/rangers in the party, LBing anything that isn't a boss is better than LBing the boss.

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Arguing the most efficient use of LB is a different matter entirely but thank you for explaining the numbers to me as I always did wonder where exactly the pay-off leaned in favour of caster, beyond (obviously) very large pulls.

What I was referring to by "window" was the minimum time you should allow if your goal is to have a full LB bar by the final boss. If you believe that's inefficient then that's perfectly fine and I'll take your word on it for my own runs in the future, but the OP came across as hesitant and concerned about the opinions of their fellow party members as a result of using their LB at an 'undesirable' time and - regardless of whether its ideal or not - the standard is to LB the final boss, so having a full bar for that will, at the very least, avoid any potential grumblings from any disgruntled DPS in the party.

For the assertive type, its simple enough to just explain your reasoning should you be questioned, but being shy about things like that myself, I know I would at the very least hesitate to break from the norm - I figured the OP might be a little similar.


You're not wrong about the final boss often dying/reaching the point where a single bar will suffice before the second bar can fully charge and - prior to your suggestion - I would have said that's simply another matter to consider if you're familiar with the run, albeit I believe it varies from dungeon to dungeon and, naturally, party to party. Though with all that said, I am by no means an avid dungeon'er these days, so I am not the most experienced with 4.0 dungeon content and I'll leave it up to the rest of you as to how those ones tend to go.

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Originally Posted by Knahli

... but the OP came across as hesitant and concerned about the opinions of their fellow party members as a result of using their LB at an 'undesirable' time and - regardless of whether its ideal or not - the standard is to LB the final boss, so having a full bar for that will, at the very least, avoid any potential grumblings from any disgruntled DPS in the party.

For the assertive type, its simple enough to just explain your reasoning should you be questioned, but being shy about things like that myself, I know I would at the very least hesitate to break from the norm - I figured the OP might be a little similar.

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Oops, I have to say, I was the disgruntled DPS in the party, which is why I decided to clarify! I've been that "last boss only" LB person, with caveats in certain places, and so when I'd seen a few recent baby dungeon runs with different LB prangs from the other co-DPS, I needed clarification! Normally yes, I'm shy (reason below), but if I'm on DRG I'm a little more assertive. I have no idea why. :D

My main takeaway here has been to bear the information/advice provided in mind, do what I've been doing with more attention to adapting to others, and don't get bent out of shape if things don't happen "perfectly." And also wish there was some sort of official guideline on this, or it was incorporated into the Hall of Novices, like "Hey, role X! This can be a nice time to use an LB, but don't be afraid to experiment and communicate with your party!" Or something.

I have social anxiety and play games like this to actually help with that, but I need guidelines or I have rug-pulled-from-under-me moments. I do the best I can do, and really try very, very hard not to sweat the small stuff, which this, in all essence, is.

Again, thanks to everyone for your input here. It really helps me, more than you realise. <3