Conjurer in Ifrit -- Tactics Please?

Hello,

I'm hoping to start a discussion on the best way for a CNJ to deal with Iffy in battle!

So far, I've come up with the following points:

1 - CNJ stands in one of their two safe spots
- On the right as going in, to the left and behind of a little rock
- On the left as going in, to left and behind a little smudgy spot

2 - Focuses on curing the tank, but not over-curing (save on MP).

3 - Uses Shroud of Saints when ever possible (to decrease hate and get some MP regen)

4 - Uses Blissful Mind before going in and tap it when MP is going low. When used, right away use it again to start storing for more MP.

5 - Stoneskin self at ALL times (prevents being thrown back by attacks and serves as buffer to already low HP)

6 - Casts Protect on group when they huddle together

7 - Casts Sacred Prism + StoneSkin on group when they huddle together

8 - Casts Curaga on group when they huddle together

9 - Avoid curing anyone but tank (the DDs can take care of each other)

10 - Avoid raising unless things go really really bad

11 - Run away from cracks the moment you see them (although that may still be too late), and then run back as soon as they start to dissapear

12 - When Nails pop up, look at timer (how much time left before fight is over). Subtract 60 seconds. That is about when Hellfire is going to happen. As soon as hellfire is about to happen, start healing yourself so you are cured the moment it is over. Then quickly put up StoneSkin.

Any more ideas/suggestions/tactics?

I do have a couple of questions:
Should a CNJ heal the tank even if it means the CNJ will die in doing so?
Should a CNJ spam-heal the tank even if it means the CNJ will run out of MP?



Thank you.

Sounds about right. I'd add a couple things though.

10 - Raise someone if needed when Ifrit dashes/jumps. Priority is Tank, CNJ, DD, though if you're having to raise the Tank the chance of recovery is pretty low.

12 - I usually start casting Cura on the tank as Hellfire is about to go off, since they need the HP more. As a CNJ you should only be taking damage from Ifrit's big explosion knockback move, which should be blocked by Stoneskin unless he does them as close together as possible.

I also use a party chat macro to call out 60, 30, 15, and 5 seconds 'til Hellfire.

As for your questions, I'd say 'yes' to both. In the first case, someone else can raise you and the tank can stay up for some time with one CNJ or a CNJ and someone else healing. In the second, there's nothing else more important to spend your MP on. Hopefully Ifrit will jump or one of your MP moves will come up so you don't stay empty for long.

when you run from cracks you can heal the tank with resonance>cure from pretty far, keep that in mind if you know he cant wait for you to return to your spot.

You have most of the basics down - positioning, the use of BM and SoS, etc. There are basic tactics that should be followed regardless of the party setup; healing tank, self preservation, healing DD, and, if you're up to it, keeping bleed effect on Ifrit via Aero.

So the rest of the tactics are derived from the party set up. If you've all thm as DD, you shouldn't have to heal them much but at the same time you cannot let them die and/or stay dead or you will not kill Ifrit. The secondary healing cnj should be on the right side and should be healing the physical DD. They are to be damaging Ifrit and have to focus on combo timing and positioning. Often animation lock will render them susceptible to damage from Ifrit's "WS" - if you will. So to say they can take care of each other is a bit'o'a bad idea. After all, cnj is there to heal.

Also, raising should not present any issues and everyone in the party should have raise equiped. Raise when he is doing tripple charges for two reasons -
1. There is plenty of time allotted here to raise one person and they raise someone else when they are up.
2. A raise should never be needed before the "glowing tripple stage". If so, leave party and runaway! O.o kidding as mistakes happen.

Also on Charges: During single charges, this is a good time to SS ( Sacred Prism if available) and protect. If you feel time is too limited, then SP stoneskin and protect from your safe spot. During the tripple stage doing both while near tank is no issue. This is Important for when tank is low on MP : When your tank becomes low on mp and he cannot use Sanguite Rite, you can put it on him. Best time is just before Ifrit lands after third charge. So monitor the tanks MP and if it is low, do not use Sacred Prism SS when he begins to jump. Instead wait until the third charge and use SP then when he makes his last jump use Sanguite Rite. This will enure the tank has SR when Ifrit lands and uses a WS. Tank regens MP and you are back to safety.

Nails: You can Cleric's Stance and help nuke down a nail if you see fit as well and take CS off afterward. Also, The best defense for Hellfire is Sentinel - so lvl that glad to 36. If you run a timer when nails pop you can time the use of sanguite rite and sentinel just before Hellfire. This will mitigate damage to you and regen MP from any damage taken. After that, its the same ole same ole. Oh and on tripple cracks, try not to run directly into the thm or DD group as when cracks follow you run the risk of killing them.

So all and all, there is plenty you can provide as a cnj in the Ifrit battle that extends beyond just healing the tank. And to answer the last two questions, yes heal tank even if you will die - no tank = no win. And.. you shouldnt run out of MP :/.

After hellfire i wait 15sec each time ifrit do a ws since cracks can pop up and kill u. Also have invigorate to have some tp and use second wind went u get hit that way u save some mp. Dont use Blistfull mind when running low on mp instead wen tu know u will get all the mp back, then cast t again and use second wind to get the hp back

Just a little correction: Sentinel is 22GLA now. Great tips though!

• At the start I'd just melee to 3000 tp. It should last you the entire fight you won't have to worry about Invigorate or possible animation lock from it. Ifrit doesn't WS at all right at the start and that is when your tank is supposed to be healing themselves anyways.
  
• Early on, I'd say to avoid overcuring because Cure and Cura give enmity based on the amount they would have cured instead of what they actually did heal. So using Cura on the tank while he's at full HP will still give you 1k+ HP worth of hate and waste a ton of MP. Late in the fight, spamming Cura might be necessary but at that point hate should be cemented on the tank.
  
• It might take practice on your team's part, but you should not be running out of MP at all unless Ifrit outright decides not to jump the entire fight or something. The tank needs to time their defensive abilities to mitigate their damage so you don't run out of MP and the DDs need to avoid as much as they can.
  
• In most cases you should have the MP and time to keep the melee topped off with Curaga. Curaga actually will never overcure because of how it works (it splits around 1800-2000 hp healed among the AOE until that "stock" runs out) so it's very useful and relatively light on enmity when you learn how to use it. Only Cura the DD if the tank is full (and only full). It's fine if they get hit with the occasional WS but they should be able to Second Wind or Cure themselves to get out of critical HP.
• If your team does good enough on the fight, don't be afraid to throw out nukes. CNJ nukes can do some pretty respectable damage to Ifrit and they have some nice effects attached to them. I'd go as far to say that you should try to keep Aero's bleed effect on Ifrit as much as possible if you are able to spare the time to do so. Stone's Magic Evasion effect is really nice if there are more casters in your group. If you see Ifrit jump before his dashes, if you are fast enough you can start casting before you lose target and still hit him with a spell.
• Cleric stance when the nails come up and help nuke down the nails nearest to you, but don't forget to continue looking out for Ifrit's moves and watch your MP, and don't forget to remove Cleric Stance afterward. With some planning and having the party split up and help each other, you should be able to consistently destroy them all. In a party with no THMs we've regularly been able to take down all 4 nails with around 10-15 seconds left before Hellfire. It reduces the damage down to around 1k without buffs so it's well worth it.
• Always Raise people ASAP, and wait for dashes to do it. Prioritize other CNJ's as was said. If you have people consistently dying and your Raise recast or MP is an issue, your team probably needs more practice.
• If both healer spots get Eruptions on them with the melee spot safe, you can run back through the middle of the arena where the melee are after the 3rd crack appears so you can get to the tank quickly and heal. If you do this you shouldn't need to use resonance
• After Hellfire, Ifrit seems to always use 2 to 3 claw swipes in between WS's. If he's only swiped once you are safe to cast, otherwise avoid casting until he WS's again if you can.

On your questions, for the first one it depends on the situation. If the tank is around 3k HP or higher they are fine to take hits for a few seconds, so get away from eruptions. If your tank is at low HP and you get eruptions under you, heal them. The death of the tank usually means the end of the run, where a healer death is much more recoverable.

On the second, spamming Cure/Cura is fine if it is necessary.

overly complicated

-stand in safe spot
-cure tank, over cure is fine
-do not cure after ifrit lands from dash, he will do a move shortly, be ready to run from eruption
-you have 6 seconds after ifrits moves (plume, eruption, burst, flame breath) to cast
-after hellfire you have 2 seconds(pushing it, 1 second is far safer) after ifrits moves
-win

Get invigorate and second wind, pop invigorate at the start of the fight, you will then be able to use second wind throughout the fight to heal yourself.

Don't wait for the visual of the cracks. Instead watch his swipes, most of the time he will do 2 swipes and then an ability (exception is right after a dash, he will swipe once and then do an ability) on second swipe dont use Cura on the tank unless you absolutely have to once you see that there are no cracks coming your way you can then heal.

Not every Con does this but I do. I only use cura to heal in the fight this gives me more downtime to regen mp throughout the fight between Cures.

At this point in the game I now heal others in the fight as I usually have more then enough MP and can judge the swipes well enough to do so.

Never raise someone unless Ifrit is dashing and raise priority goes secondary healer, THM, anyone else.

I'm guessing the guide was written with 2 cnj's in mind doing the run.

If that's the case, throw out heals and stoneskin every so often to the DD's. Why not? You're a healer, that's what you do. I also help nuke on the nail closest to Ifrit. I got one down by myself while the other cnj focused on healing the tank.

Please don't put the mindset that you CAN'T heal everyone except the tank. That's just not the role you are playing.

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Originally Posted by ninesunz

overly complicated

-stand in safe spot
-cure tank, over cure is fine
-do not cure after ifrit lands from dash, he will do a move shortly, be ready to run from eruption
-you have 6 seconds after ifrits moves (plume, eruption, burst, flame breath) to cast
-after hellfire you have 2 seconds(pushing it, 1 second is far safer) after ifrits moves
-win

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This ^

The hardest thing about Ifrit fight is resisting the urge to do too much. That's how those Eruptions get ya

Yeah that WS after dash always gets people, even after I tell them not to WS/Cast =P

Agreed with Aratharn, wanting to do too much usually kills you.

I am usually alternating casting SS with the other CNJ, if the group has many DDs, on jump I do prism+stoneskin, next jump I cast SS on myself. The other CNJ does the opposite. Has been working pretty well so far.

Also, watching the chat (filter: successful actions by enemies - on) is usually more accurate than watching the animation for cracks/ifrit's swipes.

Two things I would add. 1: keep aero up, this a useful dot and slows the regen. 2: cast when ifrit uses his auto attack. This will help to keep track of weapon skills.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

8 - Casts Curaga on group when they huddle together

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If people are huddled together, many are low on HP, and you have Sacred Prism available, then Sacred Prism + Cura is much better than Curaga. ^^

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I do have a couple of questions:
Should a CNJ heal the tank even if it means the CNJ will die in doing so?
Should a CNJ spam-heal the tank even if it means the CNJ will run out of MP?

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If the tank is in bad shape I will continue to do whatever I can to keep him/her alive... even if it means running dangerously low on MP or putting myself in jeopardy of Ifrit WS attacks.

If the tank goes down then it's usually end of battle -- Ifrit will start chasing everyone else and it's very hard to get things back under control.

Having a reliable Thm stand with you on your spot helps a lot I find, mainly because they will AOE stoneskin/sanguine you both while they are waiting for a spell reset or you have a round where Ifrit is jumping a lot or when they have taken their spike out and are waiting for Hellfire to go off. This gives you a chance to stoneskin the tank instead of yourself.

In general your life is just as important as the tanks, never have both Cnj on the same side as one will need to be free to dodge cracks without worrying about the tank for 10 seconds.

I find that if you are seriously running out of MP in Ifrit, either you are the only Cnj, you are over curing (phase 1 needs cure 1 only and you need to stay still as long as possible) or your tank needs to step it up a notch, part of keeping hate is using sentinel, featherfoot, second wind and other damage reduction.

You can help yourself by smacking Ifrit with your weapon till you have 1200+ tp right at the start of the fight, that TP is invaluable for second winds on yourself if you need to recover from being hit by a plume etc

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Originally Posted by Niqote

Having a reliable Thm stand with you on your spot helps a lot I find

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Matter of preference, really. The THM will be dealing damage, thus getting lots of hate and increasing the chance of cracks landing on them - and you.

That's the reason why I prefer to stand alone on my spot.

Really the only thing you shouldn't do is have both healers in the same spot.

What I do:

- Predict damage done on tank, and cast Cura in advance.. While counting the number of claws Ifrit did to ensure I wont caught in animation lock when something bad is coming to me.
- Blissful Mind + Second Wind
- Runs to the tank while Ifrit jumps to cast AoE Stoneskin and Protect
- Only raise during dashes and if I know I won't run out of mp too quickly

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Originally Posted by Niqote

Having a reliable Thm stand with you on your spot helps a lot I find

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Horrible idea or the reasons Soukyuu mentions

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Matter of preference, really. The THM will be dealing damage, thus getting lots of hate and increasing the chance of cracks landing on them - and you.

That's the reason why I prefer to stand alone on my spot.

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I wouldn't say it so much a matter of preference, I would say it generally the standard NOT to have a THM near you. The downside of all the cracks the THM will attract to you far outway any benefit of one there.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Matter of preference, really. The THM will be dealing damage, thus getting lots of hate and increasing the chance of cracks landing on them - and you.

That's the reason why I prefer to stand alone on my spot.

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I agree usually can get through a whole fight with no eruptions if you are standing by yourself.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

I wouldn't say it so much a matter of preference, I would say it generally the standard NOT to have a THM near you. The downside of all the cracks the THM will attract to you far outway any benefit of one there.

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Pretty much this. As a healer (and with the ease of running only 1 healer since the patch), there really is no reason a thaum should ever be standing with you. Counting the two healing "safe spots", there are 5 safe spots total I can recall within range of ifrit, so if you have thaums stacking with healers then you're pretty much just asking to be blown up >.>

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Originally Posted by Ricepudding

Pretty much this. As a healer (and with the ease of running only 1 healer since the patch), there really is no reason a thaum should ever be standing with you. Counting the two healing "safe spots", there are 5 safe spots total I can recall within range of ifrit, so if you have thaums stacking with healers then you're pretty much just asking to be blown up >.>

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Do you know where I can find a list (or picture) of all the safe spots?


Thank you!

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

Do you know where I can find a list (or picture) of all the safe spots?


Thank you!

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It'll depend on where he is tanked (I think?), but if you have him tanked kinda where he is when you enter the area, you just need to keep an eye on the pattern of the plumes to see where it's safe to stand.

You'll notice that there's little rocks you can use as "landmarks" to find the safe spots, but it's quite tricky to try explaining it with just text :/ I'll try to take some pictures next time I'm in there, but I'm not sure when that might be >.>

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

Do you know where I can find a list (or picture) of all the safe spots?


Thank you!

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ok so this is our positioning

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws....nal/397382.jpg

1. Tank
2. CNJ/THM - you will see the black cracks on the ground on the outer edge.
3. CNJ/THM - you will see a patch of grass on the ground that is in the shape of India we have dubbed this Little India
4. Any DD - Directly behind Ifrit
5. THM/ARC - not sure on ground pattern because i only play CNJ in Ifrit but with some trial and error you can find it.
6. THM/ARC - there is a rock near this spot and the closest patch of green is where you stand.

woah, I've never seen it tanked at the position where you zone in o.O unless I'm misunderstanding Krausus' diagram.

You can use his diagram as reference if you tank ifrit where he spawns as well though, only difference would be that points #2 and #3 would be opposite in this case (3 would be against the wall, while 2 would be a bit away from the wall)

Here's the positions we use in a diagram i whipped up in like 5 minutes, hopefully you can understand it haha

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...QM8pNCYC3Y.png

Stars are CNJ safe spots, Square is tank, Triangle is Ifrit.

Left spot: There is a series of 2 small cracks and a Large Crack, the large crack being right next to the tank. Standing right next to the 2nd small crack is safe from plumes and dashes. The safe area is smaller than the spot on the right side but I personally find it easier to run back and reposition to after eruptions. Note: Your tank can use that large crack to help position themselves, but make sure they know that standing on the crack itself is NOT safe from dashes. They have to stand slightly to the side of it.

Right spot: There's a rock in that general area that you can stand behind and be safe from plumes and dashes. It might take you a fight or two to get the hang of it, but the safe area is larger than on the left side.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

Hello,

I'm hoping to start a discussion on the best way for a CNJ to deal with Iffy in battle!

So far, I've come up with the following points:

1 - CNJ stands in one of their two safe spots
- On the right as going in, to the left and behind of a little rock
- On the left as going in, to left and behind a little smudgy spot

2 - Focuses on curing the tank, but not over-curing (save on MP).

3 - Uses Shroud of Saints when ever possible (to decrease hate and get some MP regen)

4 - Uses Blissful Mind before going in and tap it when MP is going low. When used, right away use it again to start storing for more MP.

5 - Stoneskin self at ALL times (prevents being thrown back by attacks and serves as buffer to already low HP)

6 - Casts Protect on group when they huddle together

7 - Casts Sacred Prism + StoneSkin on group when they huddle together

8 - Casts Curaga on group when they huddle together

9 - Avoid curing anyone but tank (the DDs can take care of each other)

10 - Avoid raising unless things go really really bad

11 - Run away from cracks the moment you see them (although that may still be too late), and then run back as soon as they start to dissapear

12 - When Nails pop up, look at timer (how much time left before fight is over). Subtract 60 seconds. That is about when Hellfire is going to happen. As soon as hellfire is about to happen, start healing yourself so you are cured the moment it is over. Then quickly put up StoneSkin.

Any more ideas/suggestions/tactics?

I do have a couple of questions:
Should a CNJ heal the tank even if it means the CNJ will die in doing so?
Should a CNJ spam-heal the tank even if it means the CNJ will run out of MP?



Thank you.

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i would add raise someone if needed only when ifrit is dashing, but if the other healer dies ask someone to raise him and full heal the tank, you cant let the tank die because your party will wipe.

And yes maybe sometimes is better dieing to cure the tank, ppl in your party should help you cure if the other healer dies.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Here's the positions we use in a diagram i whipped up in like 5 minutes, hopefully you can understand it haha

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...QM8pNCYC3Y.png

Stars are CNJ safe spots, Square is tank, Triangle is Ifrit.

Left spot: There is a series of 2 small cracks and a Large Crack, the large crack being right next to the tank. Standing right next to the 2nd small crack is safe from plumes and dashes. The safe area is smaller than the spot on the right side but I personally find it easier to run back and reposition to after eruptions. Note: Your tank can use that large crack to help position themselves, but make sure they know that standing on the crack itself is NOT safe from dashes. They have to stand slightly to the side of it.

Right spot: There's a rock in that general area that you can stand behind and be safe from plumes and dashes. It might take you a fight or two to get the hang of it, but the safe area is larger than on the left side.

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nice graphic

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Matter of preference, really. The THM will be dealing damage, thus getting lots of hate and increasing the chance of cracks landing on them - and you.

That's the reason why I prefer to stand alone on my spot.

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I'm really starting to agree with this.

Prior to 1.20, Lancers were the main damage dealers and if we had just 1 Thaumaturge, standing with the healers wasn't such a problem since they tended not to draw too much hate.

But now Thaumaturges draw so much hate that having them stand with the Conjurers is asking for an accident to happen.

We've been following the video guide Veronica posted for positioning Thaumaturges.
Their semi-safe spot is around the center and about 2/3 way back from Ifrit. It's safe from plumes and too far back to be hit by Ifrit explosions... but you need to run to the side when he does his dashes (similar to how other DDs move during dashes).
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ge-Ifrit-guide

If Ifrit is tanked directly in front of the zone in, facing away (let's cal that 3 o'clock), there's a good place to stand outside of vulcan burst range and between plumes around 12 o'clock. Having all THMs here allows for a second healer (if you use one) who stands around 1-2 o'clock to run from eruptions between Ifrit and the THM party, which is great so THMs don't have to move on of the off-chance that they do not get any triple eruptions on them. In any case, everyone always runs towards the exact center of the arena since it is perfectly safe. The great thing about this spot is if you get just close enough to the wall at near-max distance, you don't have to move when Ifrit dashes either, giving you tons of mp regen time.

ITT: conjurers only heal on Ifrit?

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

If Ifrit is tanked directly in front of the zone in, facing away (let's cal that 3 o'clock), there's a good place to stand outside of vulcan burst range and between plumes around 12 o'clock. Having all THMs here allows for a second healer (if you use one) who stands around 1-2 o'clock to run from eruptions between Ifrit and the THM party, which is great so THMs don't have to move on of the off-chance that they do not get any triple eruptions on them. In any case, everyone always runs towards the exact center of the arena since it is perfectly safe. The great thing about this spot is if you get just close enough to the wall at near-max distance, you don't have to move when Ifrit dashes either, giving you tons of mp regen time.

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Would you be able to do a diagram? I'm having a hard time visualizing your arrangement.

With the Thaumaturge spot in the video I linked to earlier, the disadvantage is having to run from dashes -- which cuts off MP regeneration a lot.

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ITT: conjurers only heal on Ifrit?

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I usually keep Cleric Stance on and attack for the first half... trying to keep Aero and Magic Evasion Down on Ifrit helps.

But during the second half I take off Cleric Stance and save my MP for healing since the tank tends to start taking massive damage during this time.

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Originally Posted by Mikita

I usually keep Cleric Stance on and attack for the first half... trying to keep Aero and Magic Evasion Down on Ifrit helps.

But during the second half I take off Cleric Stance and save my MP for healing since the tank tends to start taking massive damage during this time.

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I was just poking fun. CNJ is actually a very good tank on Ifrit, and so is THM.