[Suggestion] PLD Requiescat

I find it difficult to find any useful situations to use Requiescat+Holy Spirit spam in dungeons outside of the boss fights.
Usually, because large pulls mean Total Eclipse is the best option when there are 4+ mobs.
I wondered if maybe make Requiscat give Holy Spirit a splash effect for the buff duration to make it more useful for AoE situations.

I'd rather see something like this incorporated into a new ability.

Like, something that makes damage reflect on a shield block for 8 seconds.

I don't think you're getting Holier than Holy, if that's what you're asking.

Flash is your equivalent of MP -> AoE threat, or Requisecast -> Clemency Spam.

They should just make flash do damage under Requiescat or have it turn into a damaging aoe spell under Requiescat.

Having Req modify Flash would be an easy update. Like how DWT modifies Tri-Bind by removing the bind effect and adding 70 potency to it.

No, PLD really doesn't need any buffs.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

Having Req modify Flash would be an easy update. Like how DWT modifies Tri-Bind by removing the bind effect and adding 70 potency to it.

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i could see that as a 5.0 thing

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Originally Posted by Launched

No, PLD really doesn't need any buffs.

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Its true, had many salty Warriors get upset when I tear threat off them at a whim then keep it. PLD is fine.

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Originally Posted by Launched

No, PLD really doesn't need any buffs.

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I do sometimes think it could use a couple of defensive tweaks. I mean by comparison to war and i think dark. Sentinel has bloody massive cool down. So does bullwark. Hell shake it off even puts divine veil to shame.

The only thing at the moment that PLD could do with adjusting is replacing the extra effect Rampart has when using Intervention, to another PLD cooldown that isn't cross role. I say this because SCH also suffers from a similar issue in that Deployment Tactics benefits from Eye for an Eye, yet it is cross role and doesn't have the trait that reduced the cooldown previously in HW. Just not a fan of locking enhanced effects of job skills behind cross role ones you know.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

I do sometimes think it could use a couple of defensive tweaks. I mean by comparison to war and i think dark. Sentinel has bloody massive cool down. So does bullwark. Hell shake it off even puts divine veil to shame.

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This. Its great the way it is, but you could tweak its kit to make it better. Sentinel is one, then theres bulwark, which has no reason to be 3 minutes for essentially a fluff damage cooldown. It's like the recent DRK changes where they weren't full on buffs, but changes that make the job feel better.

But requiescat is really good at what it does, it is part of the core raid rotation. Even then, jobs should NEVER be designed around dungeon content, as they are never played to their full potential there.

PLD has total eclipse and flash for AOE, with FoF buffing the damage of total eclipse. That is more than enough.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

I do sometimes think it could use a couple of defensive tweaks. I mean by comparison to war and i think dark. Sentinel has bloody massive cool down. So does bullwark. Hell shake it off even puts divine veil to shame.

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Sheltron. We don't need anything else.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

I do sometimes think it could use a couple of defensive tweaks. I mean by comparison to war and i think dark. Sentinel has bloody massive cool down. So does bullwark. Hell shake it off even puts divine veil to shame.

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PLD cds are so much longer because of the block mechanic. You have a pretty high chance to proc a completely free, 27% all-damage type reduction which covers quite a bit of fluff. The 40% from Bullwark is applied on top of that already existing chance, making it very potent. For tank busters you practically always have Sheltron to combine with your other cds, so you never really have to stack things like Sentinel+Rampart, akin to what WARs do.

Shake it Off isn't really more powerful than Veil as the shield is based off target's hp, not caster's, making the base, no cd sacrifice shield not nearly as strong. Coincidentally, two out of three of the cds you can sacrifice have same recast as Veil. Not to say it's a weaker ability overall, but I think they're pretty balanced with each other.

That said I wouldn't actually mind PLD getting an AoE spell with same potency as Total Eclipse to make it's aoe a bit more interesting and double down on that hybrid-caster identity. In 5.0 that is.

I find reqiescat to be the worst SB skill
Basically a dumbed down Inner Release.
While they serve the same function (burst of dps) and do it in the same manner. By spamming the big number skill

one is somewhat pleasant because you see those big numbers while the other one turns you into a battle mage spamming that weird holy cross skill.

Holy spirit spam is littéral l'y the number one reason I don't touch this job. It's dull and not even satisfying.

I'd rather have an aoe holy spirit or something instead.

While I like the concept of requiescat, I don’t much like the implementation. The 80% mp requirement basically means you can rarely spend mp outside of requiescat or you likely won’t have enough mp when it comes off CD. The duration makes it so tight, the slightest lag or movement and you’re gonna miss a Holy Spirit or clemency under it. And as the topic says, not much use in AoE.

I’d like to see the 80% mp requirement gone so we can use it whenever it’s ready and for it to be charge based like aetherflow rather than duration based. I think it would be a more interesting dynamic this way as you could weave it in whenever it’s ready without a duration or mp requirement and you’d be free to cast your spells even outside of requiescat.

This way, if you don’t have mp because you’ve been casting, you could use requiescat anyway and it would give 5 charges to spend on Holy Spirit or clemency whenever you have the mp to use them.

I also like the idea of it effecting flash, damage being an obvious option but even just something like adding a vun up debuff or an AoE stun would be interesting.

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Originally Posted by SiriusSaltstice

They should just make flash do damage under Requiescat or have it turn into a damaging aoe spell under Requiescat.

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Then PLD would be uniquely wholly immune to resource limitations. DRK, like any caster, has only MP for AoE. WAR, like any physical combatant, has only TP by which to contribute against packs of enemies. At present, PLD can contribute against packs of enemies with both its MP and TP, the least capped, but at least can't contribute directly with both: MP allows for healer damage, while TP allows for the PLD's own. While it's more practical to consider the output, rather than the number of GCDs, available at any given time. But in that regard, PLD already outperforms DRK save for situations wherein it can fill a Delirium-Blood Weapon window entirely with self-refunding DA-Quietus, and probably only falls some 15 spammable (TE) potency short of parity with Warrior in a pull more wherein most mobs last around a half-minute, all while having the best independent emergency skills. It is not in a bad place, even if Warrior may be slightly overtuned in its AoE.

As for making Requiescat an AoE, consider the cost: Holy Spirit is strong enough to be rotationally advantageous in single target, but can only afford to be so because it's single-target. Make it AoE, and now -- in raids -- you lose your window of opportunity to continue attacking at range, burst windows (where coincidentally timed, following choice of opener), and considerable gameplay flavor.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

I’d like to see the 80% mp requirement gone so we can use it whenever it’s ready and for it to be charge based like aetherflow rather than duration based. I think it would be a more interesting dynamic this way as you could weave it in whenever it’s ready without a duration or mp requirement and you’d be free to cast your spells even outside of requiescat.

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While I don't mind a rework of how the skill is implemented, if you are struggling with the 80% requirement then you are using it wrong. The idea is to be at full MP and spam holy spirit until your MP is drained (there should be just enough time on the cooldown to do this). So you need to figure out in a fight when the best time to unleash your burst is. Then you use FoF combo which will refresh your MP (you should be using riot blade on every pass), and keep using TP combos until requiescat is off cooldown, at which point you should almost definitely be at full MP if you have been careful with it, and if not just wait until you are (again, riot blade) before you burst.

It's not dissimilar to Fell cleave spam really, and it gives PLD a reason to drain its MP pool that it otherwise would not be using (seriously, other than the occasional flash and the very rare clemency, MP is not used on PLD).

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

While I don't mind a rework of how the skill is implemented, if you are struggling with the 80% requirement then you are using it wrong. The idea is to be at full MP and spam holy spirit until your MP is drained (there should be just enough time on the cooldown to do this). So you need to figure out in a fight when the best time to unleash your burst is. Then you use FoF combo which will refresh your MP (you should be using riot blade on every pass), and keep using TP combos until requiescat is off cooldown, at which point you should almost definitely be at full MP if you have been careful with it, and if not just wait until you are (again, riot blade) before you burst.

It's not dissimilar to Fell cleave spam really, and it gives PLD a reason to drain its MP pool that it otherwise would not be using (seriously, other than the occasional flash and the very rare clemency, MP is not used on PLD).

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That’s the thing though, you don’t use mp outside of requiescat because if you use mp outside of requiescat you won’t have enough mp for requiescat.

While the PLD rotation is all well and good when things are going smoothly, you drain mp in requiescat then rebuild it almost exactly as FoF ends and requiescat is ready again. The second something goes wrong or mechanics get in the way you’re not gonna build mp in time (unless you proc some sheltrons or get refresh or something) and have to sit on it until you do. If you have to change stance, if you have to aggro combo, if you have to flash something, if you have to clemency someone, if you have to distance yourself from the enemy, that’s all it takes to throw off your rotation and set back your requiescat use.

If it didn’t have the mp requirement and duration you could use it when it’s ready and spend it when you’re ready. It would allow PLD to be more fluid with its mp use, you wouldn’t have these situations where you’re saying to yourself “I COULD Holy Spirit the mob out of melee range right now... but I won’t cause requiescat”, “I COULD clemency myself right now during this heavy damage mechanic... but I won’t cause requiescat”.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

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Thing is, you want to be at > 80% MP to cast 5 Holy Spirits under Requiescat. Yes, the MP requirement is restrictive should situations occur where you say, need clemency, but then you'd pop it and not even cast any magic. Say you needed to cast 4 clemencies before Requiescat is up, and you pop it and are able to cast 1 holy spirit; now what? You have 10 seconds of that buff going down the toilet.

In general, you never want to use a lot of your mp outside of Requiescat because not getting 5 buffed Holy Spirits is like missing the 5th Fell Cleave in IR, or the 5th GCD in PB; it sucks. Granted, there are times where you can chuck extra Holy Spirits when FoF isnt up and you have extra MP in place of a Royal Authority combo. But other than that, its about making the most of the buff, not the 80% requirement.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

That’s the thing though, you don’t use mp outside of requiescat because if you use mp outside of requiescat you won’t have enough mp for requiescat.

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No, you don't use MP out of requiescat because it is very situational and always a DPS loss. You aren't going to clemency yourself loads during a fight because it uses a GCD and has a cast time, thats such a waste when you have healers to heal for you, and you would only do that in special circumstances. It has nothing to do with holy spirit or requiescat.

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Originally Posted by SiriusSaltstice

Thing is, you want to be at > 80% MP to cast 5 Holy Spirits under Requiescat. Yes, the MP requirement is restrictive should situations occur where you say, need clemency, but then you'd pop it and not even cast any magic. Say you needed to cast 4 clemencies before Requiescat is up, and you pop it and are able to cast 1 holy spirit; now what? You have 10 seconds of that buff going down the toilet.

In general, you never want to use a lot of your mp outside of Requiescat because not getting 5 buffed Holy Spirits is like missing the 5th Fell Cleave in IR, or the 5th GCD in PB; it sucks. Granted, there are times where you can chuck extra Holy Spirits when FoF isnt up and you have extra MP in place of a Royal Authority combo. But other than that, its about making the most of the buff, not the 80% requirement.

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Think you missed the point. He wants it to work more like SCH/SMN aetherflow or MCH ammo where instead of being a duration based buff it will give you 5 stacks of holy light or something so you could use the 20% buff whenever you want during req's recast rather than spamming it all immediately to fit all 5 into the short duration.