Just a dumb concern of mine...

Hello beautiful people!

So there has been something on my mind recently, I was just wondering what your point of views were on this subject. Content becoming outdated too quickly.

Here is what brought it up. I was running the Lighthouse last week and I was in the Alliance that could not survive a single mechanic (I can assume we've all been in that Alliance). Que the taunting and one player in a separate Alliance stating that "The content has been out for 5 days now, if they're not going to learn it now they never will."

Now, obviously this player is just being a butt, but it did ring some bells. Do players really think like this? If you don't make it the first week, are you already behind?

I've always wondered this because an FC mate of mine could almost never get ques for Alexander (this is back before Raid Roulette); even PF didn't prove fruitful for him at times. And good luck if you wish to run EX trials from the past synched without having to wait 2-3 hours for members.

You brought up two different problems. Content becoming outdated can happen for a plethora of reasons, the biggest one being the power creep via gearing. Even synced down, you're still hella OP for the content, and yes, that's a concern many players share. That's why things like Savage or specific extrema trials you still can't cheese even unsynced are appreciated. Nothing says 'aged well' like a full 370 ilvl party wiping to Sephirot because someone missed a tether.

As to the approach you described, you're going to find "must've cleared" or at least "must've watched a guide/know mechs" for extreme and savage content on release day. That's not a problem with the game, it's just jerk players.

Not doing content during the first few days of the release does put you behind a bit, yes. Personally I like to run content blind and during the first 2 or 3 patch-days I have no problem requesting that from my DF-group. After that period I fully accept that I'm late and that if people want to have a smoother run by explaining/spoiling mechanics, they should have that run.
Specially for 8-man-stuff - if you miss out on the first week when everyone is super happy to have new content to get burnt out by you might run into issues later. Not so much with practise parties, but with farming. I recall farming my Zurvan bird - I got my clear quite late and while I had seen many, many farm parties the past 3 or 4 weeks at the point I could join them, most of them were gone and I was stuck with some really, really bad groups.
For stuff like the lighthouse, where you can get a weekly drop you're obviously one week behind on drops if you dont make it during the first week.

...for certain mechanics and seeing how and that people are failing them I'm not sure how running the content multiple times will help, because they are the result of a general lack of awareness...

In regards to the old EX-primals and (savage) raids I dont really share the concern or dont view it as a problem that people have to wait several hours to fill up synched parties.
Let me explain why: I always considered this content that you do with a static of some sorts - maybe not a full one, maybe by switching out people from time to time and picking up the odd random, but a group of like-minded people knowing in essence. That content was never really meant for DF - each time we got a new EX-primal you couldnt queue up for it by yourself (you needed the full group of 8) and they only opend that up later. And for good reasons - killing most of the EX-primals with a group of 8 unexperienced people in 60 minutes is highly unlikely. So why not go the route of pre-forming the group right away? And why not preform the group out of people you already know, trust and can maybe voice-chat with?
Since the days of Titan Ex I have built a LS dedicated to collect people that are intrested in doing EX-primals. Last year some of us did some synched-minimum-ilvl runs of Coil.
My point is: Doing this the "proper way" has always meant to build a network of like minded people for me - and not only clearing the fight synched. So if you want to do this the proper way surrond yourself with people who share the same goal, put them in LS, invite them to your FC, agree on a date and time when you'll all try to clear Ramuh Ex together!
Its not about "luck" to clear those Ex-primals synched - its about putting in the work to create a network that you can fall back on. (...and then about skill - ...or luck - to get the clear)

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

As to the approach you described, you're going to find "must've cleared" or at least "must've watched a guide/know mechs" for extreme and savage content on release day. That's not a problem with the game, it's just jerk players.

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Why does it make someone a jerk if they want to play with people at the same experience/skill-level as them? I admit that I make the odd joke about must-have-cleared parties on release day aswell or frown a little, but at the end of the day thats a totally legit "desire". Someone has been at this content for the past few hours, got quite far, now wants to kill or farm it - why does it make him a jerk that hes looking for people in a similar situation and has no intrest to repeat the first phase with those who just unlocked the trial again?

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Originally Posted by Driavna

How are people requesting to know mechanics or experience up to X jerks?

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While it's perfectly reasonable to set that as a requirement in PF (though I think you are being very optimistic if you do that on the first day), it's unreasonable to go into a Roulette expecting everyone to know mechanics when content is less than a week old. The example in the OP was 5 days after release.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

He was talking of PF. If someone manages to clear a fight (or it's stuck at X phase) the first day and after that, he wants to make a farm party what's the problem? Even the duty finder offer those options.

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Asking for "must have watched a guide" two hours into the patch when there ARE no guides is delusional at best.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Asking for "must have watched a guide" two hours into the patch when there ARE no guides is delusional at best.

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Must have watched a guide when guides don't exist yet. Doesn't that mean that no one can run the trial? The first people that go in have to kick themselves out since they haven't watched a guide yet, but can't since one doesn't exist.

The entire playerbase can't run it until SE makes a guide to the fight themselves, since no one can run it without watching a guide.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

So, a few do something stupid (to be honest guides for extreme Primals come really fast, I have my doubts that you are honest with your argument)=players requesting something the first day are jerks? Ok.

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I don't think that people who have their own set of requirements are jerks, but it is certainly disheartening to see people already demanding people to watch guides on day one, so I can understand his frustration. I found myself saying the same thing on release day when I'm setting up a learning PF and see "KNOW FIGHT OR KICK (this is purely anecdotal, but I have seen it several times).

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

Must have watched a guide when guides don't exist yet. Doesn't that mean that no one can run the trial? The first people that go in have to kick themselves out since they haven't watched a guide yet, but can't since one doesn't exist.

The entire playerbase can't run it until SE makes a guide to the fight themselves, since no one can run it without watching a guide.

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Yes, this.

This is exactly the problem.

"Do the impossible, or else!" is a thing that comes up far to often, both in and out of game.
Off course, if i pull the same card, for an out of game example, demanding they fly by flapping their arms really fast even though it's physically impossible for humans to do so, then they go ballistic.
The hypocrisy is strong with these ones.

I only feel behind when I don't get enough tomes for the week to keep my gear progression going
... I used to try and keep up with ex trials and farming and whatnot but I'm 40yrs old have a gf and a full time job and life just gets in the way so I'm not stressing over it anymore

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Originally Posted by TyrTry

I don't think that people who have their own set of requirements are jerks, but it is certainly disheartening to see people already demanding people to watch guides on day one, so I can understand his frustration. I found myself saying the same thing on release day when I'm setting up a learning PF and see "KNOW FIGHT OR KICK (this is purely anecdotal, but I have seen it several times).

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Why do you let that affect yourself though?
If you dont wanna watch a guide on day one, you can set up a PF for a blind run a month later and see if there are (enough) people enjoying the game the same way you do - or you outright surrond yourself with such people.

I laugh a bit at the people demanding to have watched a guide on day one because they're probably gonna have trouble (or not) to fill their group, but thats about it. I'm not concerend or dishearted if people enjoy this game a different way than I do (as long as they stick to the rules of the game, obviously).
If someone needs to have cleared everything 2 hours after the patch dropped - cool.
If someone wants to take it more slowly - cool aswell.

I think the "guide on day one"-PFs are a bit silly too, but if it works for them... it works for them and has no negative impact on my enjoyment of the game - if I dont want to watch a guide on day one, I can make my own PF a week later.
If enough people share my idea of enjoyment - I'm lucky.
If not, the others are.

People want to play new and exciting content and for longterm people that means: the new patchstuff. It also means that they probably went through at least a month of content that started feeling stale and outdated so they're hungry and excited and will jump right in. Usually you'll see threads complaining about the lack of content or "I unsubbed and this is why"-rants a few weeks before the next patch hits.
People want to play the game, but they cant stand to repeat the same fights over and over anymore, so when there is new stuff...

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Why do you let that affect yourself though?
If you dont wanna watch a guide on day one, you can set up a PF for a blind run a month later and see if there are (enough) people enjoying the game the same way you do - or you outright surrond yourself with such people.

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I was merely quoting an extreme situation of the "know fight or kick" parade that happens relatively rarely, but often enough that it is rather enlightening to acknowledge that part of that player base exist (stating the obvious). It only affects other players when that mentality spreads into other groups; nothing wrong with keeping your own rules and expectations inside PF, just don't expect everyone to follow those rules outside of your own jurisdiction. But that doesn't excuse people getting ticked at new players because "it's been 5 days, they should know the fight already!"

I've never seen someone ask for guides on day 1 so I'm gonna write that off as a bad hyperbole. What I have seen day 1 is people ask for meteor / last phase practice, or know until last phase, or farm parties asking for fight knowledge. Those are perfectly fine expectations and you can create your own learning group if you dont qualify for a group that wants to practice the last phase, what you cannot is try go force those last phase groups to go back to the first phase for you.

How would they know if you watched a guide or not? By your performance within the battle?, that doesn't mean nothing that is still an assumption. These people saying why should guide on day one just want to flawless run and I would think most the time they don't get that but that's what they want.

No mechanic is entirely new or those that would be new, just need you to have eyes in your sockets. I hate seeing people die to 4 year old markers.

Y'all understand that those day 1 "know mechanics, watch a guide" groups are just trolling right? Like don't take them seriously it's just memes.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

How are people requesting to know mechanics or experience up to X jerks?

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When x = days and not x = turns

I had some random group I was in rage about people (including myself) dying to mechanics in the 4.3 ex primal fight SIX HOURS AFTER IT WAS RELEASED.