Greetings,
I have 2 retainers that are strictly HQ mat deposits and 3 retainers that are normal quality deposits. I don't mind the current system where you can search for an item and the system will let you know which retainer has that item stored if indeed you do have said item and which tab that item is in. BUT, I think it would be a great thing if the crafting interface could list mats that are not stored in your immediate inventory but rather takes your retainers inventory into account.
I think this could save a lot of time rummaging through your retainer inventories.
Crafting from Retainer INVENTORY?
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06-05-2018, 12:13 AMAshlikeSnowCrafting from Retainer INVENTORY?
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06-05-2018, 01:10 AMNephthysVasudan
Wont happen.....it would make macro'ing crafting a total run away thing.
As for searching for items...you just right click...and you get told where it is..even the tab.
This is why you should craft near a retainer bell....makes it easy.
Yes..its annoying...but what makes things easier...can be exploited. -
06-05-2018, 01:14 AMKhalithar
We should be able to craft directly from our retainer inventory and not being able to is one of many of the little inconveniences about crafting. For example, LET ME SWAP CRAFTERS WHILE STILL IN THE CRAFTING WINDOW WITHOUT HAVING TO CLOSE IT SE.
But anyway, despite the fact that I'd love to be able to do that, SE already said that we are unable to craft from the retainer inventories due to technical reasons, I can't remember the specifics but bear with me here, it's something like the items in our retainers are stored on a separate space to our inventory and they can't have one connect to the other because it would cause too much stress on the hardware. -
06-05-2018, 01:18 AMNephthysVasudanKeep in mind that you need to think bigger numbers in terms of "load".Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalithar
Take the total number of players in FFXIV worldwide.
Times 2.....or up to the maximum retainers one can have.
Times the number of items in storage.
At this point your brains should exploded.
Storage is not the problem in terms of hardware....its the handling of said data...and communication.
Again...this leads to major exploitation issues.
MY only gripe in this crafting system is the inability to pull a search result from the GATHERING log....not the crafting log. But alas....QoL seems a distant memory/thought these days. -
06-05-2018, 01:26 AMSkivvyI may be misunderstanding this, but you are able to search for an item from the gathering log, at least for mining/botany. Anglers appear to be SOL still as we cannot search from the log, and there is no quick search for fish/locations. Was there another issue?Quote:
Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan
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06-05-2018, 02:14 AMStouterTaruYou can't search for the gathering log entry from the crafting log. Ex open iron ingot recipe, right click iron ore and select "search gathering log" or something to that effect, would be a nice QoL add.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skivvy
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06-05-2018, 02:21 AMSylvinaA real no brainer QoL change. Almost every other game I've played with crafting uses this. please do.Quote:
Originally Posted by AshlikeSnow
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06-05-2018, 02:43 AMKhalitharLike I said, I didn't remember the specifics, thanks for clarifying.Quote:
Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan
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06-05-2018, 03:20 AMTalraenQuote:
Originally Posted by StouterTaru
Skivvy is correct, this is already an option. I believe the text is something like "Search for item by gathering method." As he said, you can't search for fish, but you can absolutely search for mining or botany items right now.
EDIT: I was wrong about this one. Shows what I know! -
06-05-2018, 04:01 AMPotatoWafflezThis is false, while there is a search by gathering method it does not work with the crafting log UI everything defaults to search by crafting method regardless if it comes from a gathering node or is another crafted item.Quote:
Originally Posted by Talraen
You can search for items by gathering method for things like the custom delivery UI though. -
06-05-2018, 04:35 AMVaer
I'd rather have the crafting bag from ESO+ (separate inventory for mats only) but since they are locking inventory to an app sub I doubt that would happen. One can dream I guess.
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06-05-2018, 05:01 AMTalraenHuh. Well now you have me doubting myself. I'll check when I get home, but I think you're right. My apologies!Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoWafflez
The one issue with having an inventory for materials only is that there is no bright line between "materials" and everything else. Many older items are used to craft "upgraded" items, and many food materials are consumable as well as being materials, for example. This would be by no means impossible to work around, but since it would immediately collapse the retainer rentals and dramatically change the game, I don't see it ever happening. Maybe in the next MMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaer
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06-05-2018, 05:28 AMVaerThey could just make it like the saddlebag/armoury chest, where materials can still be in the inventory, and have a move to and from function with things classified as materials getting the move to craft bag option and it automatically sorts based on how the market board does it. (Lumber, Ores, etc.) Obviously, the main issue is that they sell inventory (I referenced the double saddlebag in app sub) so I don't see this happening but it would be nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Talraen
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06-05-2018, 07:49 AMStouterTaruYou can search by crafting method, but that's not the gathering log. The gathering log search is separate, and there is no fishing log search at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Talraen
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06-05-2018, 09:22 AMRyaz
This was one of the best QoL changes WoW implemented. A crafting mat slot in the bank you could craft from. Made life so much easier.
So it won't happen in FFXIV. SE doesn't like to make life easy for people. -
06-05-2018, 10:02 AMPyro2hell3yup won't ever happen because it might be convenient and we can't have thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Ryaz
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06-05-2018, 11:41 AMVhailorIt could, but I think there's value in making it inconvenient to store large amounts of crafting materials. It provides an incentive for people to instead deposit these items on the MB, where they can then be purchased and put to use more rapidly.Quote:
Originally Posted by AshlikeSnow
I think it would also offer far too much value for having multiple additional Retainers. Personally, I resent the fact that extra paid Retainers are even permitted MB slots. If they could also be turned into on-demand crafting material storage, well... it continues to blur the P2W line. I'd be more open to the idea if it only worked for the stock two Retainers, but that realistically wouldn't be how this was implemented.
It would be a nice convenience feature, though. -
06-05-2018, 01:38 PMNephthysVasudanThis..soooo much. - Right now its Search recipie or something generic that will only pull crafting log results..NEVER gathering log results.Quote:
Originally Posted by StouterTaru
If I wantted to search say Cobalt Ignot and figure out where the bloody hell Cobalt ore can be found - id like a gathering log result...not "no results found" :P
So now i have to close out every damn window..and go to gathering log....and you get the picture. -
06-05-2018, 01:43 PMNephthysVasudanI wish they limit retainers MB access honestly.....it would piss people off...but it would put the market back into rational line of control instead of overkill flooding like many do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vhailor
*Don't like it? Take a flying leap....I don't care...won't argue with you and not going to bother giving you time of day....you guys have waaaay to much power over exploitation of market boards as it is...excluding legit business folks of course - would it hurt profits? yeah...but gil is too damn easy to make anyway.* -
06-05-2018, 02:56 PMVhailorWholeheartedly agree. It doesn't help either that there are only a relatively handful of any 'in-demand' items at any given time. It makes it a lot easier for omnicrafters with multiple paid Retainers to monopolize the centers of profit. Why they care about the Gil, I'm not sure - it's not like there's much to buy with it - but the principle still bothers me.Quote:
Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan
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06-05-2018, 04:42 PMillgotI don't understand what you mean by this.Quote:
Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan
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06-05-2018, 09:19 PMKisaiTenshiQuote:
Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan
The technical answer is that when you do "search" the game queries the server and sends back a response from each retainer. It doesn't load the retainer into the game environment. That's also why when you search for an item that is also available as HQ it will look for both. The game client, for the purposes of crafting doesn't know if you have it, thus can not proceed, and can not summon the correct retainer since it may be in more than one and the game doesn't let you summon all the retainers at once.Quote:
Originally Posted by illgot
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06-05-2018, 10:03 PMTalraenThis is not entirely correct, the search is even more limited. Whenever you summon a retainer (or maybe open their inventory), the game locally caches the inventory contents, and the search uses those cached results. This is only noticeable if you play on multiple PCs or consoles, but it comes up a lot if you do. So if you have a stack of iron ore on a retainer, move it to your inventory, then log in on a different system and /isearch for iron ore, it will tell you that you have double the amount you actually do, because it doesn't know the retainer doesn't have the iron ore anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
That said, your overall point (that the game doesn't actually know with certainty that you have the item) is spot on. -
06-06-2018, 12:02 AMLiam_HarperI love FFXIV. I moved here from WoW and don't regret it. WoW even gave me a free week to try again and their new raid was rubbish so I'm still here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryaz
But that said... it's depressing the amount of times I see suggestions or ideas on the forums here, followed by "we can't have that because":
-The servers would blow up
-The servers use a clunky system that can't handle it
-It would have to go in with the other 400 items in the cash shop because Enix is poor
-Enix can't afford that (more voice acting for example)
-Enix doesn't make big changes inbetween expansions.
-Random potential bot/RMT exploit excuse (mailing alts or non-friend list players for example).
-Enix would refuse to make it simple and mess it up (glamour dresser vs tmog tab or Verminion vs pet battle)
And WoW has had the suggestion, feature or QoL for years, successfully in a far superior form. It irks me the amount of times I've caught myself thinking "but WoW manages that". FF does have things WoW doesn't too, like character customization, crafting and proper day/night but that's 3 things to about 50 different QoL and features. Again, I love this game but it does feel like their servers are made from cardboard and sellotape sometimes. -
06-06-2018, 12:12 AMNephthysVasudanStop assuming every other game is like WoW....and you'll find its easier to cope with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
And for that matter..stop treating SE like Blizzard.
They are nothing alike....and can't be alike.
Methods/practices shared are coincidental...many of which are patented/copyright/controlled/trade-secret/locked.
You may hate the answer...but its not an excuse. It's a Fact. Until industry changes...in terms of competition/profit....features you like on product A..won't be on product B. Until someone finds a way to make B not look like A....behave differently...and compatible with the tech. The inverse can be said for any other game on the market...including WoW. It's a cop out to make such a response.
And the servers are not made of cardboard.
Such remarks just show your ignorance. They have limits just like every other server. Great majority of which are due to compatibility and capabilities.
Much like running Microsoft Office on a Apple/Macintosh vs a Windows platform.
It requires modification/a great deal of effort to make that possible.
The tools you use to make such a thing work...took ALOT...of effort to make it happen. Even then - never perfect.
No SE is not perfect - but they don't deserve the ridicule either when people make "cop-out excuses" in response to rational answers made by IT professionals. -
06-06-2018, 02:18 AMAshlikeSnowI think his point was that wow sets modern standards. This very fact is why 1.0 failed, ignoring modern mmo trends. Tanaka was disconnected completely. And if Yoshi-P didn't enter and make FFXIV adopt what wow set as basic mmo standards we'd still be playing 1.0. So how about we give thanks to wow for saving FFXIV. I hope the SE development team keeps adopting QoL standards to make it all simple, if they can.Quote:
Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan
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06-06-2018, 02:21 AMNephthysVasudanThat's incredibility subjective.Quote:
Originally Posted by AshlikeSnow
I could say the same of EVE Online (By CCP) who has a single shard universe and a game being far older than most.
WoW could learn a great deal from them.
But they are not the same are they?
I'm sure others could have their own examples.
Point is..its never as simple as people think it is. -
06-06-2018, 02:32 AMAshlikeSnowUm actually I know Eve very well, still have my Amarr born May 6th 2003 and fine you want it to call it being subjective? How about you watch the 2014 GDC Presentation about FFXIV that Yoshi P presented. He says it himself that Tanaka was disconnected and modern mmo trends at that time were ignored and it led to the game being a complete failure in Western Markets and largely in Japan. Its straight from the mouth of the man that saved this game from failure. He says he adopted so many development standards from Blizzards mmo and that's what saved FFXIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan
I don't know the limitations the devs have when it comes to QoL changes. All I know is that FFXIV takes queues from wow and I was just suggesting it. For a long time everyone would always yell at people that wanted to Queue for DF while having their Chocobo summoned and everyone would always be like " NOPE NOT GOING TO HAPPEN SORRY " but it did so who knows? -
06-06-2018, 03:09 AMVhailorOf course they deserve ridicule: their back-end is atrociously designed, and they routinely build mechanisms that butt heads with their known limitations.Quote:
Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan
One go-to example of this is Housing. They built an exceedingly complex system that, while great, was unsupportable by their servers for years. Housing availability issues still aren't completely resolved! The feature was arguably better-implemented in fucking FFXI, this game's predecessor. No technical arguments can excuse them from this, because they built the gods-damned system in the first place. They knew their server limitations, or should have, and they built the system anyway. That's inexcusable.
Another go-to example is Glamours. Not just WoW does Glamours better: so do most other MMOs. Fuck, so does FFXI, this game's predecessor. How is SE's shoddy implementation - one that, despite years of time, still isn't completely fixed - something worth excusing?
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I haven't played any other games before in which the developers routinely cited server limitations as reasons to not develop certain QoL features. I find it hard not to fault SE as a result, particularly when some of the things being held up by the oh-so-limited servers were done back in FFXI - and work better to boot. Learning from past experiences is about the lowest possible bar to set, and it appears XIV's team hasn't even consistently met this.
I'd also point out that FFXIV, by all appearances, aspires to dethrone WoW as the king of MMOs. It's clearly intended to be widely accessible; it's routine to encounter advertisements for the game; the development team behind ARR actively cited WoW as a founding influence. With that comes a certain burden of expectations: you can't be the new king until you beat the current one. Part of that means figuring out how to match Blizzard's clearly-superior QoL efforts, rather than making excuses for why doing so is hard. Or you can rest on your laurels, which is clearly what the content development teams are doing; maybe that's the long-term intent for FFXIV. It'll never topple WoW like that, and will likely see its subscriber numbers drop off a cliff at some point, but that's their choice to make. On the assumption that SE isn't intentionally resting on its laurels, though, they deserve to be challenged to do better, rather than complaining about how something is hard or requires significant technical work. Blizzard did it, so SE can too. Suck it up, get it done.
Edit / Addition:
EVE Online is quite unique. It is wholly distinct from WoW and FFXIV, but WoW and XIV are not wholly distinct from each other (they're close to siblings in many ways).Quote:
Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan
The single-shard universe is also not something that could be applied to XIV and WoW in their current states, regardless of technical limitations: Eorzea would simply become too crowded. EVE Online features procedurally generated content, which space lends itself well to. FFXIV and WoW do not. As a result, they have far smaller game worlds for people to inhabit, and are forced to limit population numbers. I seriously doubt that Blizzard wouldn't be able to replicate EVE Online's single-shard experience if they built a game around that, but WoW isn't it - and nor is FFXIV. -
06-06-2018, 03:36 AMNerfworthy
Sure would be nice........ I'd put my name on this to say "yes please"
It's the one thing GW2 does better than FFXIV.