Tokens in 24-man raids to go with greed only, please

We've had tokens for gear in the 8-man story raids since Alexander. Why not do the same for the 24 man raids? Doing that wouldn't make any difference if someone is on their main/sub trying to gear their main/sub and would make need/greed pretty meaningless anyway. The 8-man raids have shown that they remain active throughout each week due to people needing to re-run them because they didn't get the token on their previous attempt(s).

Seriously, running lighthouse a dozen times and not even seeing the gear I want drop even once means I haven't even had the pleasure of being out-rolled by someone on a different class due to the greed only. Even without wipes, it takes far too long to spam lighthouse due to this.

IIRC, there's 4 chests in lighthouse (and all 24-man raids?), just make the chests like this (per team):

Chest 1 - Belt Token
Chest 2 - Helm Token
Chest 3 - Gloves + Boots Tokens (both drop at once)
Chest 4 - Body + Pants Tokens (both drop at once)

Sure, the competition would be increased on each piece as that's less overall loot dropped and they're more generic and useful no matter which role you're trying to get gear for. I'd just like to know that I get a sure chance to at least roll instead of spending nearly an hour carrying people through something to only hit pass on every piece of equipment that drops.

I despise grinding normal mode raids for this very reason imagine sitting through a 40-50 minutes long newest 24 man and get absolutely nothing in the end again no ty.

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Originally Posted by AppleJinx

I despise grinding normal mode raids for this very reason imagine sitting through a 40-50 minutes long newest 24 man and get absolutely nothing in the end again no ty.

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So...Most runs where you are after a certain item?

Yes to this with a small suggestion. Don't decrease the number of drops. Currently each boss can drop items for three different slots and iirc will drop two pieces per group. So make it something like this:

1) two out of belt/shoe/glove tokens
2) two out of belt/head/leg tokens
3) two out of shoe/chest/head tokens
4) two out of leg/chest/glove tokens

There would be 8 items per group, two chances to get any piece and much more equality when it comes to loot competion.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

So...Most runs where you are after a certain item?

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No. Because with actual gear there's still a pretty decent chance that people wouldn't want that specific piece but when you turn it into tokens everyone would be rolling on them.

While I agree that 24-player raids would benefit from a token system regardless of the Greed-Only system (20 runs for a specific item to drop and then lose the roll on it? What a fun game design!), I disagree that it's this token system that should be implemented. The only reason why it's doable in 8-player raids is both because you have 4 whooping items to pick from per-chest, and because you get one item per-chest, so total of 4 items weekly. Here you get less tokens per chest, only one item, and the content itself is much longer.

The extreme-trial token system would work much better here, removing many layers of RNG while still forcing most people to run the content several times a week for their drop.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

The extreme-trial token system would work much better here, removing many layers of RNG while still forcing most people to run the content several times a week for their drop.

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While that's not a bad idea, the only problem I see with that is that you'd necessitate the removal of the weekly lockout so that the farming of a required number of guaranteed clear tokens can be done at each player's pace. That'd work near the beginning of the release of the 24-man raid, but once people farm the number of tokens they want/need they won't have much of a reason to run it again and you'll see the raid go on life support with people clearing it once weekly near the reset for the upgrade token while it's still relevant and then at the mercy of enough people queuing the alliance raid roulette on level 70 classes after that. If you keep the weekly lockout (1 gear token/week), you'd see the raid on life support almost immediately from release.

The reason it works for EX primals has to do with the mount and possibly crafting item, but if I'm going to roll against 24 other people for something like that in a raid as long as the lighthouse, that drop rate would need to be at least 50% if not 100%.

At this point I'm wondering if I'll win the minion and all the orchestrion scrolls before I finally even see caster boots drop. I'm already at 2/3 on the scrolls.

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Originally Posted by -BlueGreen-

While that's not a bad idea, the only problem I see with that is that you'd necessitate the removal of the weekly lockout so that the farming of a required number of guaranteed clear tokens can be done at each player's pace.

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Not really? Pace has nothing to do with it. If people don't have enough time a week to run the raid 10 times, they likely didn't have time to farm for a specific piece of gear anyway, and then they either ran it the once for the upgrade token or rolled on whatever to call it a day. Namely, they're not the target demographic anyway.
As for the weekly lockout, you're looking at it from the wrong direction. The tokens will have weekly lockout as well. If you get your weekly item, it locks you out of using the tokens. If you use your tokens, it locks you out of getting a drop in the instance. If you don't have time to farm the tokens to get your guaranteed drop, you likely rolled on whatever you could
If anything, I can see people running this more because a lot of people will be motivated to run if they have a guaranteed drop at the end of it and aren't at the mercy of RNG.

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The reason it works for EX primals has to do with the mount and possibly crafting item, but if I'm going to roll against 24 other people for something like that in a raid as long as the lighthouse, that drop rate would need to be at least 50% if not 100%.

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Ex tokens are a guaranteed personal drop. So you're not rolling against anyone.

OR, how about another idea that's been suggested...

That after doing 3-5 runs of the 24-man without getting loot it gives you a token, that counts as your weekly loot, which can be turned in for one any item from the raid.

You can get your loot with the current system, but if the loot RNG and rolling fucks you over, you still don't end up doing 20 runs.

You do all realize that you get a coin from the lighthouse 24-player alliance right? That coin only lets you upgrade the Mendacity gear, and... only if you have a coin from the previous 24 player alliance. Those two coins upgrade the i360 tomes gear to i370. The gear you get in the Lighthouse is i360.

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Originally Posted by AppleJinx

I despise grinding normal mode raids for this very reason imagine sitting through a 40-50 minutes long newest 24 man and get absolutely nothing in the end again no ty.

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The non-gear stuff you can always greed on. My personal opinion is that you should greed on only the stuff you want, and if you have nothing by the end, and you aren't inclined to run it again before tuesday just greed on everything at the end if you even remotely can use it.

While I was a little disappointed in what I got the first run, after spending like 1.7 hours in it, but it was fun to play. It actually feels like it will end up being easier than Rabanastre in the end, because Rab tends to only wipe at Hashmal. The Lighthouse is looking like it will mostly be the end boss Yizamt that results in wipes, but it almost feels like the mechanics that players are worse at are Belias since Time Eruption can wipe the raid by not paying attention.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

You do all realize that you get a coin from the lighthouse 24-player alliance right? That coin only lets you upgrade the Mendacity gear, and... only if you have a coin from the previous 24 player alliance. Those two coins upgrade the i360 tomes gear to i370. The gear you get in the Lighthouse is i360.

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Assuming you have the mendacity to get the base item, and the time to run both the Lighthouse and Rabanastre. Tall assumption there. And that's before situations where we saw 24-raid gear be BiS (weren't the BRD Dun Scaith boots that?).

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

You do all realize that you get a coin from the lighthouse 24-player alliance right? That coin only lets you upgrade the Mendacity gear, and... only if you have a coin from the previous 24 player alliance. Those two coins upgrade the i360 tomes gear to i370. The gear you get in the Lighthouse is i360.

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You don't get 360 gear from nowhere for getting the coin, you still need 2 weeks of tomestones to get a piece of gear...

It's for gearing another class, and not your main class. But the loot system is terrible and you can't even always gear up a second class because gear for it won't drop... Or when it finally does someone else gets it because you roll a 1...

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

OR, how about another idea that's been suggested...

That after doing 3-5 runs of the 24-man without getting loot it gives you a token, that counts as your weekly loot, which can be turned in for one any item from the raid.

You can get your loot with the current system, but if the loot RNG and rolling fucks you over, you still don't end up doing 20 runs.

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A hard cap on how many empty-handed runs per week? Yeah, that'd be nice. Granted, I don't see SE doing that as that'd require them to start tracking how many runs of some content you've done each week, and you know, server limitations or whatever card they'd pull on that, lol. I figure it's just much easier to ask them to copy an existing implementation from something that already (kind of) works than to ask them for something new. Still, if SE was willing to go with it, I'd gladly take that suggestion over my own.

I hate the normal mode raid loot system with a passion and do not want to see it added to more things, anything to do with RNG just sucks, it’s just never going to be fair that one person might only have to run it once while someone else could have to run it 40 times.

However, the 24 man raid greed only is just as bad if not worse and like normal mode raids it’s just going to get worse when they unlock the drops.

I’d rather see them work on adding less RNG dependant systems that promote a balance between running the content multiple times and getting your reward in a reasonable time frame. Things like the primal tokens are a step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by -BlueGreen-

Granted, I don't see SE doing that as that'd require them to start tracking how many runs of some content you've done each week

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It's called The Challenge Log and that functionality has already been in the game for ages.
That said, the item-token solves that too. Have them be key items with an expiration date like Khloe's journal or wedding invitations. That way they utilize "existing space" - your Key Item inventory without adding a new system.

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Originally Posted by -BlueGreen-

The reason it works for EX primals has to do with the mount and possibly crafting item, but if I'm going to roll against 24 other people for something like that in a raid as long as the lighthouse, that drop rate would need to be at least 50% if not 100%.

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Just to be clear, you're never rolling against 24 other people. Including yourself, that would necessitate a 25-person instance. =p
But also you're only rolling against the 7 others in your own party.

its just RNG in the end
a chance to drop and a chance to even roll high
ive been in swallow compass all weekend and haven't seen that Caster chest drop once...

a token system would be nice for 24man(even coils)
maybe you get a coffer at the end of the raid itll give you a random armor piece for that job
if you use it cant get any rewards from chest in the raid till next week
or you can save the coffer and grind out the piece and use it if you haven't gotten anything just before reset you use it as a fail safe
so your still getting only a piece per week its just 1/5 chance

How about.......(thinks long and hard) SE ...hmmm, maybe.....uh....they.......

BRING BACK OUR $&@“ing NEED BUTTON!!!!!!!

Ahem . Sorry

The removal of the "Need" option is just another clear example of how they don't respect us as players. They would rather have us run the raid as often as possible, rather than give players the opportunity to win the items.

It's just not worth it to do the new raid for the gear. Do it once for the coin, and you're done for the week. So damn sad that they have to resort to scummy tactics to get people to play the content more. I hope you guys aren't falling for it.

First Eureka, and now this shit. If you could at least get more than 1 item per week, I could see some justification in having "Greed" only. But considering it's ilvl 360, non-upgradeable, AND you can only get one per week? Yeah, it's just straight-up disrespect.

Keep it up, SE. Not only do you slap us all in the face every time you decide to have maintenance eat through the weekly reset, but you also keep trying to pull off things like this. For literally not valid reason. When did pissing off the playerbase become part of your marketing strategy?

I don’t like running 24 man dungeons mainly because the bosses are just damage spunges. Wish the developers would add more interesting things in them besides bosses. Maybe platforming vertical while fighting a boss or random generated puzzles

Some of the bosses in the 24 man content were really cool. Like the one where we fought inside a stomach and the epic one with the giant door. Those were really cool. Tokens won’t matter for me because I stop running the 24 man stuff after 2 or 3 times total. The gear is worse then the time gear and savage anyways. They should add personal loot bags for everyone with random goodies, with the possibility of a highly rare weapon.

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

I don’t like running 24 man dungeons mainly because the bosses are just damage spunges. Wish the developers would add more interesting things in them besides bosses. Maybe platforming vertical while fighting a boss or random generated puzzles

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Please no vertical platforming while fighting. People who have issues with heights already have enough troubles.