Tokens in 24-man raids to go with greed only, please

[-BlueGreen-]

We've had tokens for gear in the 8-man story raids since Alexander. Why not do the same for the 24 man raids? Doing that wouldn't make any difference if someone is on their main/sub trying to gear their main/sub and would make need/greed pretty meaningless anyway. The 8-man raids have shown that they remain active throughout each week due to people needing to re-run them because they didn't get the token on their previous attempt(s).

Seriously, running lighthouse a dozen times and not even seeing the gear I want drop even once means I haven't even had the pleasure of being out-rolled by someone on a different class due to the greed only. Even without wipes, it takes far too long to spam lighthouse due to this.

IIRC, there's 4 chests in lighthouse (and all 24-man raids?), just make the chests like this (per team):

Chest 1 - Belt Token
Chest 2 - Helm Token
Chest 3 - Gloves + Boots Tokens (both drop at once)
Chest 4 - Body + Pants Tokens (both drop at once)

Sure, the competition would be increased on each piece as that's less overall loot dropped and they're more generic and useful no matter which role you're trying to get gear for. I'd just like to know that I get a sure chance to at least roll instead of spending nearly an hour carrying people through something to only hit pass on every piece of equipment that drops.

[AppleJinx]

I despise grinding normal mode raids for this very reason imagine sitting through a 40-50 minutes long newest 24 man and get absolutely nothing in the end again no ty.

[Ilenya]

I despise grinding normal mode raids for this very reason imagine sitting through a 40-50 minutes long newest 24 man and get absolutely nothing in the end again no ty.

So...Most runs where you are after a certain item?

[Reinha]

Yes to this with a small suggestion. Don't decrease the number of drops. Currently each boss can drop items for three different slots and iirc will drop two pieces per group. So make it something like this:

1) two out of belt/shoe/glove tokens
2) two out of belt/head/leg tokens
3) two out of shoe/chest/head tokens
4) two out of leg/chest/glove tokens

There would be 8 items per group, two chances to get any piece and much more equality when it comes to loot competion.

[AppleJinx]

So...Most runs where you are after a certain item?

No. Because with actual gear there's still a pretty decent chance that people wouldn't want that specific piece but when you turn it into tokens everyone would be rolling on them.

[BillyKaplan]

While I agree that 24-player raids would benefit from a token system regardless of the Greed-Only system (20 runs for a specific item to drop and then lose the roll on it? What a fun game design!), I disagree that it's this token system that should be implemented. The only reason why it's doable in 8-player raids is both because you have 4 whooping items to pick from per-chest, and because you get one item per-chest, so total of 4 items weekly. Here you get less tokens per chest, only one item, and the content itself is much longer.

The extreme-trial token system would work much better here, removing many layers of RNG while still forcing most people to run the content several times a week for their drop.

[-BlueGreen-]

The extreme-trial token system would work much better here, removing many layers of RNG while still forcing most people to run the content several times a week for their drop.

While that's not a bad idea, the only problem I see with that is that you'd necessitate the removal of the weekly lockout so that the farming of a required number of guaranteed clear tokens can be done at each player's pace. That'd work near the beginning of the release of the 24-man raid, but once people farm the number of tokens they want/need they won't have much of a reason to run it again and you'll see the raid go on life support with people clearing it once weekly near the reset for the upgrade token while it's still relevant and then at the mercy of enough people queuing the alliance raid roulette on level 70 classes after that. If you keep the weekly lockout (1 gear token/week), you'd see the raid on life support almost immediately from release.

The reason it works for EX primals has to do with the mount and possibly crafting item, but if I'm going to roll against 24 other people for something like that in a raid as long as the lighthouse, that drop rate would need to be at least 50% if not 100%.

At this point I'm wondering if I'll win the minion and all the orchestrion scrolls before I finally even see caster boots drop. I'm already at 2/3 on the scrolls.

[BillyKaplan]

While that's not a bad idea, the only problem I see with that is that you'd necessitate the removal of the weekly lockout so that the farming of a required number of guaranteed clear tokens can be done at each player's pace.

Not really? Pace has nothing to do with it. If people don't have enough time a week to run the raid 10 times, they likely didn't have time to farm for a specific piece of gear anyway, and then they either ran it the once for the upgrade token or rolled on whatever to call it a day. Namely, they're not the target demographic anyway.
As for the weekly lockout, you're looking at it from the wrong direction. The tokens will have weekly lockout as well. If you get your weekly item, it locks you out of using the tokens. If you use your tokens, it locks you out of getting a drop in the instance. If you don't have time to farm the tokens to get your guaranteed drop, you likely rolled on whatever you could
If anything, I can see people running this more because a lot of people will be motivated to run if they have a guaranteed drop at the end of it and aren't at the mercy of RNG.

The reason it works for EX primals has to do with the mount and possibly crafting item, but if I'm going to roll against 24 other people for something like that in a raid as long as the lighthouse, that drop rate would need to be at least 50% if not 100%.

Ex tokens are a guaranteed personal drop. So you're not rolling against anyone.

[CaptainLagbeard]

OR, how about another idea that's been suggested...

That after doing 3-5 runs of the 24-man without getting loot it gives you a token, that counts as your weekly loot, which can be turned in for one any item from the raid.

You can get your loot with the current system, but if the loot RNG and rolling fucks you over, you still don't end up doing 20 runs.

[KisaiTenshi]

You do all realize that you get a coin from the lighthouse 24-player alliance right? That coin only lets you upgrade the Mendacity gear, and... only if you have a coin from the previous 24 player alliance. Those two coins upgrade the i360 tomes gear to i370. The gear you get in the Lighthouse is i360.

I despise grinding normal mode raids for this very reason imagine sitting through a 40-50 minutes long newest 24 man and get absolutely nothing in the end again no ty.

The non-gear stuff you can always greed on. My personal opinion is that you should greed on only the stuff you want, and if you have nothing by the end, and you aren't inclined to run it again before tuesday just greed on everything at the end if you even remotely can use it.

While I was a little disappointed in what I got the first run, after spending like 1.7 hours in it, but it was fun to play. It actually feels like it will end up being easier than Rabanastre in the end, because Rab tends to only wipe at Hashmal. The Lighthouse is looking like it will mostly be the end boss Yizamt that results in wipes, but it almost feels like the mechanics that players are worse at are Belias since Time Eruption can wipe the raid by not paying attention.