PoTD (and HoH) are not just for weapon capped speed demons

Hello. I have a major complaint about a common mindset of a few players that queue solo into Potd.

Palace of the Dead is an excellent place to grind jobs to level 60. I've been doing it myself now for many jobs and have come across a few players that have really hurt my experience there.

First I need to lay some ground rules on why people run Palace of the Dead.
1.) to level jobs quickly while avoiding bad queue times (typically dps)
2.) To gather aetherpool weapons
3.) a combination of the two.

Most players fall into category 1. I myself fall into category 3. I level and farm the weapons at the same time. Which means I usually go out of my way to check rooms for a silver chest. It usually isn't a problem and usually doesn't take long at all unless my party members don't help at all. Which is fine, they don't have to help but it takes longer if they don't.

The mindset that bothers me, is that players are entering PoTD solo queue and then getting upset about players who go to pick up a silver chest or upset about players that don't have gear capped weapons.

The first time I experienced this I was kicked from the party on floor 53 for going to the next room over to pick up a silver chest. The party members were aggressively vocal about "most players do this for fast exp" "we don't need silver chests" "they're useless"
When I said "I'm trying to get the aether pool weapons I need the chest" They responded with obscenities, yelling and and ultimately a kick to myself. I was very upset because how am I supposed to get the aetherpool weapons/achievements if players are kicking you for getting a silver chest.

My second problem just happened where we had two 99/99 players, and myself and a marauder were around 25/35. The marauder and I (a monk) were poxed with no purity and no heals. We died to an explosive chest and our 99/99 teamates expressed that we were not high enough aether pool to be here. We were on floor 54. One of them pulled a bunch of stuff and died on purpose and then told the other player to die so that they could get out of here because "it would take too long with these guys". Because we had aetherpool weapons that weren't capped. And they did it. They died on purpose to get everyone removed from the instance.

I don't see this changing in Heaven on High. We still need to sacrifice power for achievements/weapons outside of the instance. Players who are farming all these weapons will still be punished by players who are only here to speed run for exp. I want EXP too. But I shouldn't be punished for getting the aetherpool weapons and I believe that if you queue into PoTD or HoH you should have an understanding that other players may want to go and get the silver chests or may not have gear cap. If you are seeking that type of player I think you should make a premade instead of wasting everyone's time by abusing the kick feature or trying to get your group kicked out by dying.

/partyfinder

Clearly state what you want in the comment, and confirm in /p chat before entering.

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

The first time I experienced this I was kicked from the party on floor 53 for going to the next room over to pick up a silver chest. The party members were aggressively vocal about "most players do this for fast exp" "we don't need silver chests" "they're useless"
When I said "I'm trying to get the aether pool weapons I need the chest" They responded with obscenities, yelling and and ultimately a kick to myself. I was very upset because how am I supposed to get the aetherpool weapons/achievements if players are kicking you for getting a silver chest.

My second problem just happened where we had two 99/99 players, and myself and a marauder were around 25/35. The marauder and I (a monk) were poxed with no purity and no heals. We died to an explosive chest and our 99/99 teamates expressed that we were not high enough aether pool to be here. We were on floor 54. One of them pulled a bunch of stuff and died on purpose and then told the other player to die so that they could get out of here because "it would take too long with these guys". Because we had aetherpool weapons that weren't capped. And they did it. They died on purpose to get everyone removed from the instance.

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In case one you had a clear violation of the rules of the game. Being abusive is against the ToS. Report these types of players. If they cant learn to be polite, we dont need them in the community. The second case feels more like a grey area. Dying on purpose to end a fight(especially if you arent sure you can win) probly isnt against the rules, although if youre doing it purposefully to avoid the penalty for leaving an instance and you discuss this in chat it might be. Possibly reportable. When someone ques via DF(for anything), one of the things they should be able to accept is that the other people in the group might not have the same priorities. This is equally true for the person who wants to go slower then everyone else, and the one who wants to go faster.

Go get your blue chests, most people don't care. Just don't bring a bunch of mobs back to us when you do so. Personally, I don't open any chests due to mimics. The chests on floor 51-60 which is the speed run floor, are useless in there anyway unless someone needs the aether up one. I like the groups that don't touch any of the non-aether up chests and just get through the grind.

I just got kicked from floor 59 (of 60) because I went to get a silver chest on floor 58. This is a common attitude of people. I am so sick of this. I am 5 armor upgrades from my final potd weapon. I am so upset rn!

In HoH they're "fixing" it by putting desirable things for high level players in the silver coffers, so that they won't just skip them.

But in POTD It's luck of the draw. Some people don't care, while others are just complete jerks about it. One way is to only get them if they're on the way (and not out of the way) so that they don't notice too much that the chests were picked up, but that means having to do more runs to hopefully have one that fits this criteria.

One other "fix" (ish) is the new token system they're implementing for both POTD and HoH. While it won't help people leveling their weapons for the first time, what it will help are people who want to get multiple weapons and not have to lose 30 or 60 weapons levels all at once, instead doing them in exchanges of 10.

I don't think their fix is enough. Silver chests don't guarantee primal summoning so we're just going to see this again as skip the chests or get kicked. We need something more to be done. I do think that having higher gear strength is good with the tokens.

It would be really helpful if you could turn in 10 armor without turning in 10 weapon to help avoid the "my armor is capped but my weapon is no where close" problem we have currently.
It would also be really helpful if players couldn't be kicked from potd until a certain time limit has passed on that floor or something.

If you are running floor 50 for chests with level 25/35 you are already holding the 99/99 players back. Your health and your dps is less based on your arm and armour. Its similar to being under leveled or under geared in normal content. Obviously its not the same but i do suggest partying up with likeminded individuals or taking your run to floor 100 instead of spamming 50-60. The higher you go the better chance that chest that just you went out of your way to get will have an gear up for you.
Ive run hundreds of hours of potd. Its horrid to spam run for levels and silver chests locators can grate on your nerves when you are just trying to get your grind out of the way. We've all been both sides. Just look for chests quickly while you clear the floor and respect others by leaving that one room across the map unchecked. It'll also speed up your time. Especially since most of the time it's not there, won't get you a levelup, is a mimic, or gets mobs on route in the process.

I haven’t done a whole ton of POTD, but I luckily haven’t had any horrible issues in the runs I have done. I have noticed people temd to be really in a rush though and a few times I just had to go along with the group to tho the next floor leaving part of the map unexplored and potentially leaving a weapon/armor upgrade chest behind. I haven’t had any group refuse to go into a skipable area that had already been revealed to contain a silver chest at least.

I don’t really understand being in that much of a rush that you can’t be bothered to spend an extra 30 seconds helping a non capped person grab a chest. I’ve seen people say thru can’t be bothered to spend an extra couple of minutes here and there because the time adds up and if they had to spend that extra time every day for say a week then they’ll have wasted an extra 15 minutes of their life. And to that sort of attitude I scratch my head and say really? Who optimizes their time that frugally in their day to day lives that they literally try to shave seconds of any activity they can to “save time”, especially in a game. Plus everyone has to start at square one and those people who are in such a rush that they will kick someone over 30 seconds getting a chest were at some point in the same position trying to grab all the chests and relying on the kindness of strangers. I just honestly don’t get people.

It is what it is though and it seems many groups just like to plow through content and through anyone that might make their run seconds longer, so unfortunately it’s best to just grab the chests when you can and let some rooms go unexplored if the group seems like they all want to move to the next floor right away.

Palace of the dead has options, those who don;t like speed runs can always create their own group or solo. It's not that hard if you know your job and know the items.

For the most part it's for reaching floor 200, weapons are not worth it anymore :/, glamour based on gear, leveling xp -.- makes most newbies a pain, yet hopefully will learn faster then those doing fate grinds.

I ignore the people that rage when I go after silver chests.

Granted at this point in the game, yes; there is ZERO NEED for aetherpool weapons.

But some folks want them anyway, for the glamour.

And that's just fine. I will also help those people get the blue chests even when on my miqote, that has all the tank aetherpool weapons and is at 99/99. Because I remember the slog of getting there when other people were raging at me... (I did that all during Heavensward too, when those weapons mattered).

If people got issues with somebody in content actually running that content... that's on them. Ignore the ragers. If they vote you out... just queue back in. PotD is the one place that all roles can queue equally for.

One thing I will say... the more you can avoid level 51-60, the easier it is to avoid the 'go go go' community. They just farm that on repeat. Granted even 61-70 has a rather long queue to enter some times as a result... but once you get off of 51-60, the groups you get tossed in to are more likely to be friendly about helping get various goals.

So your best bet at a drama free experience, is what I did for my Elezen on later runs - just let them rush you through 51-60, then hit 61+ and while there... ignore the 'go go go' ragers and go after all those blue chests. Then reset back to 51-60 every time the queue is taking too long, let them rush you on 51-60, and then enjoy above it for a bit...

- Yes I missed some chests as a result... but it wasn't all that bad. There seems to be fewer blue chests the lower the level (if that's not true... it's a handy delusion to have... it makes it less stressful to see a floor pass by if you think it had low odds of a blue chest... :) )

I get irritated at people who say to form a PF for a group to get silver chests. People who want to speed run should be the ones to PF up. If they're so inclined to speed run then actively seek out 99/99 players instead of getting mad because the people not 99/99 are decided to do that content.

The 99/99 speedrunners not using the duty finder is the problem here imo. THe content is multi-purpose, if you only want to use it for ONE THING (speed running for exp) you should be the one using the PF.

Especially since people are FAR more likely to group with a 99/99 PF group than a silver chest group because you get told "just queue solo for the chests".

There is no solution for people who want the aetherpool weapons.

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

I get irritated at people who say to form a PF for a group to get silver chests. People who want to speed run should be the ones to PF up. If they're so inclined to speed run then actively seek out 99/99 players instead of getting mad because the people not 99/99 are decided to do that content.

The 99/99 speedrunners not using the duty finder is the problem here imo. THe content is multi-purpose, if you only want to use it for ONE THING (speed running for exp) you should be the one using the PF.

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Speedrunners with complaints about non speedrunners should also use PF.

That said, the weapons are obsolete. Why then is it unreasonable to assume that people running it for experience would be the default?.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Speedrunners with complaints about non speedrunners should also use PF.

That said, the weapons are obsolete. Why then is it unreasonable to assume that people running it for experience would be the default?.

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Not everyone who has a lower aetherpool is trying to get glamour weapons. Some of them just don't have +99 because they never got there to begin with, even though they're in there to level too. There are always newer/returning players.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Speedrunners with complaints about non speedrunners should also use PF.

That said, the weapons are obsolete. Why then is it unreasonable to assume that people running it for experience would be the default?.

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Queuing solo means you will get anyone from 15 - 99 weapons. You will get people that need those upgrades. You can't just say tough luck to people that need them (or kick them). It doesn't work that way.

Obsolete in power yes. But achievements and glamour still make them desirable to people.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

Not everyone who has a lower aetherpool is trying to get glamour weapons. Some of them just don't have +99 because they never got there to begin with, even though they're in there to level too. There are always newer/returning players.

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

Queuing solo means you will get anyone from 15 - 99 weapons. You will get people that need those upgrades. You can't just say tough luck to people that need them (or kick them). It doesn't work that way.

Obsolete in power yes. But achievements and glamour still make them desirable to people.

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These are good reasons why someone would want to take the time to open the chests. However, I asked why a speed run would not be the default, or in other words, why would you not expect most people to want a speed run.

While there will always be some people who want aetherpool upgrades, the vast majority of people I've encountered in the Palace have been people who are leveling and didn't want to wait half an hour for a dungeon queue, and these people want the most xp per time, which you don't need 99/99 for. You really just need high enough aetherpool levels to be allowed access to the floor you're entering.


As I said earlier, I'm not reserving my advice for just the people on one side. If you're doing any content, and your goal for that content is important enough that you have to complain on the forums when you get matched with people whose goals don't line up with yours, you should be using partyfinder. If you want chests and can't stand it when people are impatient and won't let you get chests, /partyfinder. If you want speed runs and are getting impatient because people want chests, /partyfinder.

Matched parties have always been and will always be a crap shoot. If you want guarantees, use partyfinder and be clear about your goals before entering the duty.

Anyone who really speed runs PoTD should know that Floor 51-60 is used for speed running and is the best option for exp. Just keep running it over and over.
/thread


Higher floors should be for those seeking silvers or simply beating POTD for the first time.
I can't imagine why anyone would want to speed run the higher floors really is a waste of time.

I met a couple today who were speed running the higher floors. They were actually threatening this one guy in PT a vote kick because they were speeding floor 90. 90 is not a speed running floor the monsters take hella long to die and there is a higher rate of death if not carrying the right aether amounts. I was actually surprised this pair hadn't considered the reset option. Maybe some people just don't know to reset it and flourish from there but come on! Speeding floor 90 when 90 is the only floor some people can get upgrades on. Wow.

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Originally Posted by Mirakumi

Anyone who really speed runs PoTD should know that Floor 51-60 is used for speed running and is the best option for exp. Just keep running it over and over.
/thread


Higher floors should be for those seeking silvers or simply beating POTD for the first time.
I can't imagine why anyone would want to speed run the higher floors really is a waste of time.

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Oh that’s a very good point that I hadn’t considered; I was only thinking about repeatedly running 51-60. It sounds reasonable to assume silver chests on the deepest floors, based on that explanation.

Some people are jerks. I always ask when I see white weapons if we need to clear for silvers and make it crystal clear to everyone that I am more than willing to help. Or lend support to those with red weapons who mention they do need silvers. It's much faster to just clear and snag them than sit on the passage because it wasn't what you were there for. Plus it's kind of a dick thing to do.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Speedrunners with complaints about non speedrunners should also use PF.

That said, the weapons are obsolete. Why then is it unreasonable to assume that people running it for experience would be the default?.

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In case you weren't aware, there are people the weapons ARE still relevant for:

A: people leveling alts
B: people playing through the MSQ for the first time
C: people leveling alternate jobs
or
D: people playing the content for the first time.

You're being unbelievably selfish and disrupting their game play if you're a speedrunner who gets kick happy when people don't do things your way. That IS a reportable offense, especially when you consider you're kicking them under false pretenses.

Speedrunners should either be using the PF or growing up and letting them get their gear.

Sorry, I'm miffed. I just got my first kick over this garbage excuse.

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Originally Posted by TahjaEstes

In case you weren't aware, there are people the weapons ARE still relevant for

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The weapons are not relevant in any of those cases, as you can get 260 weapons for 500 poetics, and a 270 upgrade for 100 more. This is a much better return per time investment than working up aetherpool levels for a 235/255 weapon.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

In HoH they're "fixing" it by putting desirable things for high level players in the silver coffers, so that they won't just skip them..

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That won't really work though. Just look at potd. the whole reason they added the accursed horde sacks was to try and get people exploring the floors instead of skipping all the rooms and go to the portal.

Sure it worked for maybe a week until the market boards got flooded with all the loots and totally crashed the values. now they generally go completely ignored unless it's basically in your face. HOH is much the same you sense the horde calling you.. oh its all the way over there "sod thatttt"

You go at the pace the rest of the party decides. If you're outvoted, whether they want to go faster or slower than you do, your option is to withdraw or buckle down and run at their pace.

Or they're welcome to just kick you. The party you were dealing with that committed glorious sudoku to get the party ejected from the dungeon merely found a creative way to veto your inclusion, without needing to burn their kick or abandon.

Better luck next time. Square can make attempts to limit player vetos, but they don't have the capability to halt them.

Ultimately you're playing with three other people, and you're going to have to learn how to be a team player. Or you'll see more glorious sudoku in your future.

Those that want to do only speed runs should use party finder and create there own party. If they use duty finder they have no right to kick or complain if one goes after silver chests. If you do kick one for going after silver chest. Don't think GM will see it same way when that person reports them.

one of the most glaring issues in this game, all content becomes a speed run hellscape fairly quickly, i ran the original potd and my experience there made sure i wasnt gonna set foot in HoH.

you really cant complain though, unless they design some type of potd thats actually a dungeon with real traps and mechanics players are gonna go full throttle regardless.

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Originally Posted by Sukamachi

Those that want to do only speed runs should use party finder and create there own party. If they use duty finder they have no right to kick or complain if one goes after silver chests. If you do kick one for going after silver chest. Don't think GM will see it same way when that person reports them.

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"playstyle differences." You go at the party's pace, or boot.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

"playstyle differences." You go at the party's pace, or boot.

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Well, I've never seen anyone kicked from PotD/HoH in all my runs (and I've done literally hundreds for weapons for alt jobs in HoH). But yes, I usually adapt to what the party is doing (maybe doing a quick peek into a room on the side).

If I want to do a loot run then I usually create a Party Finder group for that.

Whenever I hop into duty finder, I have to accept that I may encounter others who want to play other ways.

I like to do big pulls and aoe in dungeons, at least high level ones. But if my healer wants to pull one group at a time, I'll pull one group at a time rather than enforce my will on the group.

If you use duty finder, you must accept not everyone will want to play as you do. If you want to speedrun POTD/HoH, and want to insist the whole party speed runs it, FORM A GROUP IN PARTY FINDER. If you're going to get upset about a tank or healer not wanting to do big aoe pulls in ex roulette, FORM A GROUP IN PARTY FINDER.

Granted I've never been kicked from a group in HoH/POTD for this, but I have definitely run into people who just want to gogogospeedrunallthetime. Only time I've been kicked I can recall was for using espers to clear out floors full of enemies instead of saving it for the boss on HoH floors 21-30.

If the majority (3/4) of the group wants to speedrun, then you should speedrun that time. It boggles my mind that so many people think that when they play a group-based game, that their personal wishes should override the majority of the group.

This goes both ways. If you want to speed run and queue up solo, and the majority of the group wants to chest farm, then you chest farm. Again, the desires of the many outweigh the desires of the one.

If you want to ensure that you get the group style that you want, then Party Finder exists. Too many people on this thread saying that Party Finder is for one style or the other. It's for both styles. Entering solo puts you at the whims of the majority, as it should be. You don't get to hold the group hostage, one way or another, with how you personally want to run.