Question regarding NIN

For a bit of context, I'm a fairly new player, not having any specific job at 70 yet, and I'm really enjoying Ninja from what I've played so far.

The main question I have because I keep seeing conflicting answers:

Is Shuriken good or bad?

That depends on what you're doing, on a fight that takes a while, aka single target boss, fuma will be a better option over Raiton since the damage is comparable and it is a single mudra action as opposed to a double which cuts into your gcd. For a shorter single target fight you won't gain any gcd's by using fuma so use raiton for the xtra damage.

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Originally Posted by Tsubaki75

That depends on what you're doing, on a fight that takes a while, aka single target boss, fuma will be a better option over Raiton since the damage is comparable and it is a single mudra action as opposed to a double which cuts into your gcd. For a shorter single target fight you won't gain any gcd's by using fuma so use raiton for the xtra damage.

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I'll definitely keep that in mind. Any general advice you wouldn't mind sharing?

The potencies work out like this:

Raiton is a straight 360 potency

Fuma, however, benefits from your slashing debuff and dripping blades trait. So the 240 potency gets boosted to 317.

Fuma shines, though, in that it's a single mudra to execute, which reduces clipping into your global cooldowns, meaning that if you've got good up time on an enemy, you use fuma, but if you have to step back for a mechanic and it comes, up raiton is the better one to use as you're not able to target the boss anyway.

There are other things you can consider here too, depending on your party comp, your shuriken might be getting buffed by a monk's brotherhood ability, or your raiton might be getting buffed by a summoner's contagion. Generally speaking, you'll be using fuma, but there are times to be aware of when raiton is the better choice.

A lot of it is universal advice for all dps like being aware of your ogcd cooldowns and only double weaving certain things. The biggest thing is not only knowing your skills and what they do, but learning the fight so you can maximize uptime and know when the best time to use them. Ninja being a support role knowing when to assist with enmity management, throwing smokescreen on a healer or dps gaining too much hate or using shadewalker on a large pull right before you start to aoe are things that aren't done enough as a whole.

Tailoring your role actions to the duty you are doing will help as well, bringing low blow to stun if you are going to need to, goad on a tank or dps that is low or was just raised, or feint if a boss has psychical damage tankbuster to aid in mitigation is huge. Personally i see no need to ever really have true north , but there are arguments supporting it. Ninja has 3 positionals that need to be hit, aeolian edge, armor crush, and trick attack. We were hitting all of these easily for years before true north was a thing, so i don't see the need to take it when i can have a more useful skill instead.

Trick attack should be used on cooldown during a boss fight, followed by dream within a dream once you get it at lvl 60, ideally you want to line it up with your teammates ogcds whenever possible, battle litany for drg, embolden for rdm, ect so if you have to hold it for a few seconds before you use it for that then do it. Also try to apply suiton within the last 10 sec of trick attack's cooldown so you can hit it as soon as it comes up and not have to do a 3 step mudra right before.

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Originally Posted by Tsubaki75

Tailoring your role actions to the duty you are doing will help as well, bringing low blow to stun if you are going to need to, goad on a tank or dps that is low or was just raised, or feint if a boss has psychical damage tankbuster to aid in mitigation is huge. Personally i see no need to ever really have true north , but there are arguments supporting it. Ninja has 3 positionals that need to be hit, aeolian edge, armor crush, and trick attack. We were hitting all of these easily for years before true north was a thing, so i don't see the need to take it when i can have a more useful skill instead.

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Are there ever any instances where you're basically locked from the rear positional during a boss fight?

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Originally Posted by NewAgeDoom

Are there ever any instances where you're basically locked from the rear positional during a boss fight?

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Yes, O7s is notorious for this, not because you're explicitly locked out from the positional, but there are a few instances of "you must stand here" mechanics, and the boss likes to turn around to target random party members for 2 seconds a lot, which can lead to missed positionals, but this isn't enough as a ninja to really need True North. It's more an issue for monks in that fight, I would say, than for ninjas as the punishment for missing positionals on ninja is minimal (except of course on trick attack, in which case you just plan for the times you know the boss will spin)

To add to what Antony said there are some fights where the rear of the boss isn't accessable at all like Sephirot, but those are programmed to not need positional requirements to hit so your skills like trick attack will still apply the effect.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Yes, O7s is notorious for this, not because you're explicitly locked out from the positional, but there are a few instances of "you must stand here" mechanics, and the boss likes to turn around to target random party members for 2 seconds a lot, which can lead to missed positionals, but this isn't enough as a ninja to really need True North. It's more an issue for monks in that fight, I would say, than for ninjas as the punishment for missing positionals on ninja is minimal (except of course on trick attack, in which case you just plan for the times you know the boss will spin)

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I'll definitely keep that in mind. This is quite a bit to take in all at once, coming from WoW, where all you really had to worry about as a melee was standing behind the boss, and staying out of the bad. I appreciate all the advice.

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Originally Posted by NewAgeDoom

I'll definitely keep that in mind. This is quite a bit to take in all at once, coming from WoW, where all you really had to worry about as a melee was standing behind the boss, and staying out of the bad. I appreciate all the advice.

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That's not too far from what you'll do from a position standpoint at least in most instances. It isn't required to stand on the "actual" flank of a target to hit the side positional, you just have to be in the flank range. you should be standing just to the left or right of center behind to lessen the amount of moving you have to do and just slide in and out of flank and rear position this pic should help.
http://i68.tinypic.com/xlfbjm.jpg

Very good information here. I also have a question if i may, does 07S have positionals?
05 and 06 i was told that there is not and have not been told otherwise for 07.

Edit: And knockback, i use Arm's and Feint, would Shade Shift be benificial?

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Originally Posted by Tsubaki75

For a shorter single target fight you won't gain any gcd's by using fuma so use raiton for the xtra damage.

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The fight being shorter doesnt mean you're less likely to lose 1 GCD though (as it isnt really something you can plan without knowing what you are up to)

You should just use fuma no matter what to maximise uptime, a few exceptions being:
-When you map a fight and see you can lose a bit of uptime without losing a GCD consistently,
-You're out of melee range

You'll find yourself in situations where its better to use Raiton when playing, its mostly a matter of experience so just keep playing I guess.

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Originally Posted by Shamox

The fight being shorter doesnt mean you're less likely to lose 1 GCD though (as it isnt really something you can plan without knowing what you are up to)

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It's not about losing 1 gcd, the fight being shorter means that you are less likely to gain a gcd by using fuma so you use raiton for the xtra damage. i'm referring to quick fights like most lower lvl dungeon bosses and early normal primals

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Originally Posted by Tsubaki75

It's not about losing 1 gcd, the fight being shorter means that you are less likely to gain a gcd by using fuma so you use raiton for the xtra damage. i'm referring to quick fights like most lower lvl dungeon bosses and early normal primals

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But you're not trying to win GCDs by using Fuma, you want to lower the clipping to avoid losing one, in the end it is pretty much the same but the logic behind it is different.

Now, again, no, the fight being shorter doesnt mean it is more likely to end at a specific timing making you "Win" or "Not lose" one GCD.
This is literally the reason you tend to Raiton only if you have a consistent killtime because otherwise it is just pure RNG and you can't just assume that using Raiton wont make you lose one GCD.

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Originally Posted by Maero

Very good information here. I also have a question if i may, does 07S have positionals?
05 and 06 i was told that there is not and have not been told otherwise for 07.

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You can tell if an enemy has a front and rear by looking at the target circle. If there's an arrow in the front and a gap in the rear, positionals matter. If the circle is unbroken and there is no arrow, they don't matter and you'll get the bonuses no matter where you stand.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

You can tell if an enemy has a front and rear by looking at the target circle. If there's an arrow in the front and a gap in the rear, positionals matter. If the circle is unbroken and there is no arrow, they don't matter and you'll get the bonuses no matter where you stand.

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Thank you very much, i never noticed it tbh, haha