About the DRK changes coming in 4.3

I feel like they are going to just remove the healing requirement for Living dead, and remove Dark passenger\\'s mp cost. Would you be satisfied with this change or disappointed? Also what do you guys think will change? Share your thoughts.

All they gonna do is give each move a 10 and 20 potency increase and call it a day like they've been doing since the start of stormblood. I bet my blueberry muffin on it.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

All they gonna do is give each move a 10 and 20 potency increase and call it a day like they've been doing since the start of stormblood. I bet my blueberry muffin on it.

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Then they would have done that in the last patch instead of saying "nothing drastic yet guys cos we're still working on balance."

Depends on which circumstances you have to use Living Dead. I almost never use it in dungeons with random healers, and a lot more in savage/extreme content where healers know they'll have to deal with Walking Dead when the big tankbuster happens. So the healing requirement is not really a problem from my point of view. Even if they remove it, there's still a healing requirement, because you can't stay at 1 HP when Walking Dead goes off (when a boss auto attacks for about 15k damage every 2 or 3 second, you better be at least at half HP before the invuln goes off).

Why not getting rid of Dark Passenger's MP cost. It's an AoE damage ability right now, but it could be back in single target rotation with lower MP cost. I would prefer seing changes on Sole Survivor, and less animation lock or more range on Plunge.

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Originally Posted by Megguido

Why not getting rid of Dark Passenger's MP cost. It's an AoE damage ability right now, but it could be back in single target rotation with lower MP cost.

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I just don't understand why they would make a Line aoe attack that does 100 potency. And cost 2400mp? I really don't think 4800 mp is worth an ocgd that you have to double weave and single out the middle target of the mob just to do 210 potency with a blind debuff.

First, DA Dark Passenger is 240 potency, which is exactly two Abyssal Drains. And yes, you want to DA it every time. Two arguments in favor of DA Dark Passenger:

- First, it deals heavy AoE damage as an oGCD. It costs more mana than 2 Abyssal Drains, but you deal as much damage in half the time, thus better DPS
- When there are like 10 mobs hitting you, with TBN on, Salted Earth and Delirium'd Blood Price, your blood gauge fills like crazy. That means you can spam Quietus, which means you have more mana than you can spend by just doing Abyssal Drains.

Also, without Blood Weapon, your GCD should be slow enough to easily double weave everything but plunge. If you can't double weave, DRK might be really hard to play.

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I just don't understand why they would make a Line aoe attack that does 100 potency. And cost 2400mp? I really don't think 4800 mp is worth an ocgd that you have to double weave and single out the middle target of the mob just to do 210 potency with a blind debuff.

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It's a bit like if a WAR complained about Decimate being only 280 potency while Fell Cleave is 540. Why would you spend 50 gauge on Decimate ? Different situations, different uses. DA Dark Passenger is good when you tank lots of mobs, like in dungeons or sigma V1.

I just want the fun coming back.
Atm, DRK is the """worst""" tank of the game, so at least, can it be fun to play? They've already killed the WAR's gameplay, it rests nothing to tank in term of fun imo.

What I hope they will change is removing dark arts effects on oGCD skills or splitting said skills into 2 skills.
For example:

Carve and Spit: Delivers a threefold attack with a potency of 450.
2400MP 60s CD.
Shares a recast timer with 'Syphon Slash'.

Syphon Slash (New skill): Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Restores MP.
60s CD.
Shares a recast timer with 'Carve and Spit'.

Same choice to make, same end result, less DA spam, smoother execution (IMHO.)
I'm aware Syphon Slash is a terrible name.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

All they gonna do is give each move a 10 and 20 potency increase and call it a day like they've been doing since the start of stormblood. I bet my blueberry muffin on it.

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If we get the 3.0 PLD treatment, then yeah that might be the case. However, if they get more bold like they did with WAR in Stormblood, then there is hope.

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Originally Posted by Azerhan

They've already killed the WAR's gameplay, it rests nothing to tank in term of fun imo.

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DRK main, but played WAR since ARR. For me, the current WAR is the best and most fun it's ever been.

Drk is just cool AF, its moves and glamour.., if u want to fully enjoy and use Drk , u need to be good or invest time in it

(cant make the coolest tank easy to play / learn)

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Then they should have done that in the last patch instead of saying "nothing drastic yet guys cos we're still working on balance."

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Corrected.

I'd love to be proven wrong though.

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Originally Posted by DBelmont

DRK main, but played WAR since ARR. For me, the current WAR is the best and most fun it's ever been.

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Don't seem to be the idea of everyone, since the number of tank hasn't changed since the last patch... I mean, why SE has done those changes? To make players play WAR. And so now? Did anyone seen more WAR than before?
Also, and this is my opinion, it's absolutely not fun to spam FC and 2 OGCD during the burst. It's just... Dumb, and, again it's my opinion, a dumb job is the contrary of fun.

@Shiroe: I've the DRK mount from SB, I know it by the heart, and I don't really enjoy it, because of the number of useless spell / abilities, the "spamming DA" gameplay or the fact we only have one combo. Aggro combo doesn't count, since it's pretty useless...

I'm going to post my personal wishlist if I got the chance to see an overhaul happen. The numbers are just a reflection of values we already see in-game to draw a comparison with. I don't expect these changes to be liked or accepted by any means, however, I would like to see a high risk/high reward for a selfish tank. PLD and WAR can bring coveted 'utility'. To be a dark knight is to fail to understand what the word "die" means.

Blood Gauge: Starts off at 100% When you are healed for at least 1% of your max HP, your gauge fills up 1%. The blood gauge drains over time and through ability usage. The gauge's maximum capacity is equal to half of our maximum HP.
Darkside: Becomes our 'Grit' and stays as-is currently implemented. Reduces damage taken by 10%.
Dark Arts:Requires Blood Weapon to be active. Adds additional effects to several of our abilities and consumes 1320 MP per ability used.
-Syphon Strike: MP restoration changed from 1200 MP to 1750 MP.
-Souleater: Heals for 125% of the damage dealt. Restores blood gauge proportionate to the percentage of healing received. Also restores 875 MP.
-Bloodspiller: Heals for 250% of the damage dealt. Costs 50% of our blood gauge. Does not restore blood gauge based on healing done. This attack is a guaranteed Direct Hit Crit.
-Dark Passenger: 480 potency attack in a cone before you. Costs 35% of our gauge and restores 2400 MP on use. No CD. Generates very high enmity. If there is only a single target, this attack deals 720 potency damage instead.
Blood Weapon: The blood gauge is drained 3% every server tick but allows the usage of Dark Arts.
Delirium: Enables the conversion of MP to blood gauge at 45% gauge to 7200 of our MP. 45s CD.
Abyssal Drain: Works as-is, playing into how blood gauge works. Does not increase enmity. And heals for 100% of the damage it deals.
Salted Earth: Does not restore blood gauge, however, while inside of it, blood weapon does not drain the blood gauge. Potency changed to 35. Every time Salted Earth deals damage to an enemy, they gain a stacking debuff that adds 35 potency to the damage taken. This effect lasts 3s and is refreshed upon taking damage or reapplying another stack of the debuff.
Sole Survivor: Immediately restores 20% of our maximum HP, MP and blood gauge. 80s CD.
Living Dead: Blood gauge rapidly fills up until it reaches 100%. If we would take fatal damage that would reduce our HP to zero, Walking Dead activates.
-Walking Dead: Drains 10% blood gauge every second once this effect triggers. Once there is no more gauge and we are not at full health by the end of the effect, we lose half of our maximum health. If this would reduce our health to zero, we die.
Unleash: Deals 50 unaspected damage around us (moving with us) to all nearby enemies. This ability can be empowered through the use of other actions. Lasts 15s.
-Unmend: Has a chance to empower Unleash, increasing its potency from 50 to 65 for its duration.
-Plunge: Automatically activates Unleash once damage is dealt.
Power Slash: Adds a barrier around us equal to 5% of our maximum HP. Must be used as a Combo Action.

I would love to discuss these changes if anyone is interested in my train of thought. Extreme, but this is my ideal version of DRK.

This is what I would like to see:

Remove the 50% mp penalty for using Syphon Strike out of Grit
Remove the mp cost for Dark Passenger
Increase the potency for Soul Eater (Dark Arts or not) by 10
Make Dark Arts/The Blackest Night provide party-wide mitigation

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Originally Posted by DBelmont

DRK main, but played WAR since ARR. For me, the current WAR is the best and most fun it's ever been.

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It's like a Diablo Barbarian in dungeons. Spin to win (or Decimate if that's your thing) baby.

I would like some changes on Sole Survivor. To much useless most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Azerhan

[WAR is] just... Dumb, and, again it's my opinion, a dumb job is the contrary of fun.

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Fair enough, but do keep in mind some of us like being dumb, and WAR does dumb fun best.

I havent played enough DRK to know much about black blood, but it looks like a bad WAR gauge to me. The fact that the best way to get the blood is by breaking a self barrier and not fighting just looks bizzare.

Would hope from the heal from Souleater to be usable outside of Grit, but likely just gonna get some potency increases that won't matter much.

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Originally Posted by Dhaid

Fair enough, but do keep in mind some of us like being dumb, and WAR does dumb fun best.

I havent played enough DRK to know much about black blood, but it looks like a bad WAR gauge to me. The fact that the best way to get the blood is by breaking a self barrier and not fighting just looks bizzare.

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You've right, however I find sad all the three tanks are dumb.
In HW, the PLD was easy to play, for new players I guess, and WAR was not so easy, but fun to play and not really hard, and at least, the DRK was hard to play and to master.
Now, I found all the three tanks the same, and for me (and I'm not the only one) the DRK is just look like a WAR 3.0 but with some differents spells (Bloodspiller is just a FC).

I would like the old DRK to come back, to have a hard tank to play. This game needs to make all the three tanks feel different, and I'm really sure that could make people come back to this role.

Hope I'm fully understandable, english isn't my native langage.

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Originally Posted by Elixirboy

Remove the 50% mp penalty for using Syphon Strike out of Grit

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its not a penalty, is actually the base mp gain, grit have a mp bonus gain bcs other wise since we dont have bloodweapon we will generate so little MP and depend of blood price on single target is horrible.
and in bloodweapon windows we will generate a high surplus of mp, we already doing it in some situations to think on add more mp generation is ...

I really want them to remove the DA effect from Syphon Strike. I'd say this is one of the biggest reasons why DRK feels crappy. The constant double weaving that has to happen in-between every GCD is a nightmare. Also I do wish they would up the mp return slightly on Blood Price. Ever since SB hit, Blood Price doesn't seem to give as much mp back. I know they want you to build up blood to use quietus for mp, but that's kinda clunky. They could also do something about that too. The quietus thing was a band-aid fix at best. It did help, but it could be way better. I really, really......REALLY want them to make DP useful again. It was one of my favorite abilities of DRK and it saddens me to say that I legitimately forgot it existed there for a while. They wanted to eliminate useless skills in SB, but they wound up making DP useless with the Nerf they gave it.

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Originally Posted by whiteblade89

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The whole reason Price's MP gain was nerfed is because of SS's Grit bonus, I assume their logic is that SS in grit makes up for the mp chip regen. They did butcher the ability though, it's a shadow of its former self. I'm not super peeved though cause at least weapon is still good.

DP isnt useless, per se. It's still really strong to use on adds, it's just not a free oGCD anymore that you can just pop whenever on single target, which is what I think gets people hung up based on the cost.

As much DASS helps with MP management, the weaving thing does get a bit too much. The opener just feels janky to just adjust your mana so that you're not overcapping.

I just had an idea that might be a bit radical, but since Blood Price is indeed truly awful, why not change it into a passive trait that's always active, rework some MP costs due to this, and unlock Blood Weapon regardless of stance to be used as a spike MP generator? This may be more of a 5.0 thing to combat button bloat, but what do you think?

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Originally Posted by Valdegarde

I just had an idea that might be a bit radical, but since Blood Price is indeed truly awful, why not change it into a passive trait that's always active, rework some MP costs due to this, and unlock Blood Weapon regardless of stance to be used as a spike MP generator? This may be more of a 5.0 thing to combat button bloat, but what do you think?

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Hmm, I hadn't considered BP as a trait before, but it doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. I wonder, would BP still accumulate Blood AND mp even as a trait? If so, scaling of accumulated Blood might need to be tweaked along with mp. In mass pulls you might get to a point where you're full on both Blood AND mp with almost nothing to dump it on aside from DA+DP (which might be a way to make that combo more useful). That's the only potential problem I could see with it, but I could be wrong. That would be quite the change, going from being mp starved to having too much mp and blood all the time lol

I would imagine Blood Weapon being unlocked would cover the blood generation in that case. I've not seen much of a difference in blood generation personally between doing big pulls with Price vs Weapon.

A trait might be interesting, at the very least I don't see how it would really hurt if the partial MP restore on hit was rolled into the Grit stance itself. Would at least help set Grit apart from Shield Oath somewhat.

My biggest hope of the "lowered expectations" changes is seeing Souleater heal (for the same percentage, no nerfed amounts) out of Grit. That would help DRK's self-sustain quite a bit.

I want that too, but know it will not happen because se hates drk, if they ever let souleater restore hp outside grit they will kill it by half, even though drk has nothing like clemency or equi it would be too strong or something according to them.
I only want the mp cost of grit lowered and shadowskin, scourge and dark dance back, they could have just made foresight like rampart and shadowkin, but they had to fuck drk nice animations.

From the small amount of time I've played Drk, along with guides, it seems like they spend more time worrying about mana more than anything else. Maybe they can smooth that out a little?

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Originally Posted by Narangerel

From the small amount of time I've played Drk, along with guides, it seems like they spend more time worrying about mana more than anything else. Maybe they can smooth that out a little?

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Yea alot of that is due to heavy reliance on TBN and trying to avoid being splat by the boss lol

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

I want that too, but know it will not happen because se hates drk, if they ever let souleater restore hp outside grit they will kill it by half, even though drk has nothing like clemency or equi it would be too strong or something according to them.

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Clemency sacrifices an auto attack, and a gcd. It hurts paladins dps everytime you use clemency and could possibly throw off your Requiescat damage window. Also you can't parry or block while casting it.

As for war, Equilibrium only heals in tank stance, so your sacrificing damage to heal, unless you have unchained ready i guess...

As a Drk, you have to sacrifice damage.. just like the other tanks to heal yourself by switching to Grit and using soul eater. Which ive seen heal 6-10k per combo.

Btw, Im all for receiving hp back from ss outside of grit. Im happy for any buff on Drk tbh. Just trying to state the balance square tried to attempt with clemency, soul eater, and equilibrium.

Siphon Strike, Soul Eater, Abyssal Drain, and Bloodspiller Healing you in and out of Grit, with or without Dark Arts is something I would be fine with. Dark Knight being the only tank capable of greatly sustaining it's HP without a large amount of Healer intervention or switching into it's tank stance could be the "niche" or "class fantasy" people complain about it missing right now.

Blood Price and Blood Weapon could be given a trait acquired at lower levels that heal you for 20% of the damage taken (Price) and 20% of the (weaponskill) damage dealt (Weapon). You could even make the baseline traits 10% and introduced the enhanced (an additional 10%) versions of the traits at later levels. (Pre 60 at least)

-Dark Passenger could have the basic and Dark Arts versions combined into a single 2400 MP OGCD that deals 240 potency on a 60 second cool down.
-Dark Mind could have the Dark Arts version become the baseline version without further changes.
-Carve and Spit could have it's two versions combined, making it a 60 second CD, 400 potency OGCD that gives you 1200 MP.
-Sole Survivor could be reworked into a 30 second DOT with a 60 second CD that resets on kill (to give it use in both single target and multi-target situations)
No need to add a dumb raid shield or tweak a bunch of potencies. Dark Arts gets hit a bit less. Less healer reliance during Walking Dead.

This is all nothing more than pipe-dreams, of course

I expect lousy changes and an uproar from the community

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Originally Posted by Otorinth

Siphon Strike, Soul Eater, Abyssal Drain, and Bloodspiller Healing you in and out of Grit, with or without Dark Arts is something I would be fine with. Dark Knight being the only tank capable of greatly sustaining it's HP without a large amount of Healer intervention or switching into it's tank stance could be the "niche" or "class fantasy" people complain about it missing right now.

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This would be a great niche for a class weilding a huge 2 hander instead of a shield and utilizing Dark energy. Dark Knight could take a little more damage overall, but sustain itself with strong self-heals and be a little more self-reliant.

Right now Drk has no niche or real class fantasy and doesn't excel at anything.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

This would be a great niche for a class weilding a huge 2 hander instead of a shield and utilizing Dark energy. Dark Knight could take a little more damage overall, but sustain itself with strong self-heals and be a little more self-reliant.

Right now Drk has no niche or real class fantasy and doesn't excel at anything.

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That is exactly how i felt while playing DRK. DRK does not feel like a might dark energy user tank at all. Need more HP leech and dark magic, the ascetic is great with the 2Hand swords looking like Guts from Berserk but ugh Dark Arts spam and micro managing mana is a pain.

My personal list of wants

1. Bloodspiller gaining an HP restore effect.
Gives the Dark Knight a little more sustain. Doesn't really make them tankier, but does make them less reliant on spot heals. If you don't bring the deeps, you should be enabling the deeps, and any GCD the Dark Knight saves via self healing is an implicit gain.

2. Blood Price's MP restore is based on damage taken proportional to maximum health.
Both a buff to dungeons and to Grit in general, assuming they don't become unlocked from stances. Enables more Dark Arts usage, which in turn allows Dark Knight to utilizie more defensive measures without compromising offensive options.

3. Dark Passenger qualifies for Blood Weapon.
Allows it to be a suitable tool in use for AoE as well as being somewhat neutral when used on a single target in Blood Weapon windows. (+MP +3 blood). The Blood Price change listed enough would allow use in Grit.

4. Sole Survivor is changed. Somehow.
I have plenty of ideas regarding this, but making it retain the flavor and I'm assuming intent of the ability, and also giving Dark Knight a 'wtf aoe effect' ability.

Sole Survivor
Ability
Duration: 20
Recast: 120
Effect: Gain 5% increased Attack Speed, 5% of damage dealt as health, and 5% reduced MP costs. These bonuses increase by 5%, up to 35%, for each nearby enemy. Enemies that die near you extend this duration by 3 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Derio

I expect lousy changes and an uproar from the community

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I like your thinking. I've always been a fan of the phrase "hope for the best but expect the worst and you'll never be disappointed". Me personally some changes I'm hoping to see are; dark passenger removed and replaced with scourge, either increased mp gain on blood weapon/blood price or reduced mp cost for dark arts and tbn, delirium as a combo finisher off of syphon strike, dark arts effect removed from syphon strike. Maybe work dark mind into one of the other abilities to help with button bloat.

Would love if living dead got a reboot

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Originally Posted by Sarynth

[...] dark arts effect removed from syphon strike.

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why would you do that? it's an important function to not lose the mana gain of syphon strike when your mana is capped. removing the dark arts effect means losing 140 potency in those situations.