4.3: The Geomancers

More proof that Geomancer might be the next job in 5.0. Just really happy about this, whether it happens or not only Yoshida knows but if they're starting to build a background for this job then that's a lot already

source https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/patch/4_3

Your source explains what exactly in regards to geomancer? I'm not seeing it.

They're somewhat hinted at in the AST job quest. THEREFORE GEOMANCERS?! @__@

The new dungeon, Swallow's Compass, is a tribute to the founder of Geomancy.

"The first king of the new kingdom was not only a military genius, but also the founder of geomancy, and so after his death this royal mausoleum became a holy place to which his disciples would make pilgrimage."

However, given that the whole AST questline has you working with a geomancer that gives you a pretty detailed, in-depth history as to his profession, this isn't exactly Breaking News.

I don't think it means geomancer isn't coming - especially since having Gosetsu heralded samurai from 3.x -> 4.x, but I'm not sure it's proof, either.

I'm not seeing the reference to Geomancers in your link.

However I would love this, as Geomancers were one of my top 3 favorite jobs in Final Fantasy Tactics.

The Japanese text for this dungeon is supposed to say Geomancers directly but don't quote me on this since I can't read Japanese. I've read it somewhere else.

Quote from the source

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Chiseled into the great wall which cuts across the plains of Yanxia, between two of the Dairyu Moon Gates, is the visage of Ganen, the legendary hero who united Doma. The first king of the new kingdom was not only a military genius, but also the founder of geomancy, and so after his death this royal mausoleum became a holy place to which his disciples would make pilgrimage. Alas, following the imperial invasion, it was abandoned and fell into disrepair, yet circumstances now conspire to deliver the Warrior of Light unto these hallowed halls─but to what end?

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Fixed the link

Well 5.0 for me would be Geomancer, Blue Mage , Dancer

Well i mean we have Astro..
I would personally prefer Dancer (for healer) and a new tank for 5.0 and will be rather disgusted if they go with more dps again

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

More proof that Geomancer might be

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This is not how proof works, but ok. You do you.

Where is the shirt?!

Geo could be fun. I really enjoyed it in Tactics and XI.

Geomancers are basically the eastern version of Conjury which lies closer to Astromancy's theories but drawing power from Hydaelyn. It might just be one of those forever cameo classes.

Yeah it's one of those popular jobs on the tier below blm, whm, dragoon, etc and Yoshida likes the classic jobs a lot specially when he has a chance to give it a new perspective like they did with dark knight. I bet that he's going to make Geomancer a tank. No one thought dark knight was going to be a tank and we saw what happened. A tank mage would be something new and unique, in FFXIV they might turn it into a melee mage with low range but keep the casting which is ultimately what defines a mage.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

I bet that he's going to make Geomancer a tank.

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Dark Knights weren't established in the canon prior to HW though, meanwhile Geomancers were established to be foils to ASTs and healers in their own right in the AST 60-70 quest line. If they do introduce Geomancer they'll have to find a way to set them apart from AST and CNJ on at least a lore front, because right now there's nothing there. They use the same elements as CNJ and were established to be AST's matches, the biggest difference is that geomancers look at Hydaelyn whereas ASTs look at the stars, but it's ultimately the same aether. The comparison was the core of the AST 60-70 line. In many ways it buried the job's chances of making it into the game as it opened the door for it.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Dark Knights weren't established in the canon prior to HW though, meanwhile Geomancers were established to be foils to ASTs and healers in their own right in the AST 60-70 quest line. If they do introduce Geomancer they'll have to find a way to set them apart from AST and CNJ on at least a lore front, because right now there's nothing there. They use the same elements as CNJ and were established to be AST's matches, the biggest difference is that geomancers look at Hydaelyn whereas ASTs look at the starts, but it's ultimately the same aether. The comparison was the core of the AST 60-70 line. In many ways it buried the job's chances of making it into the game as it opened the door for it.

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All the more reason why it'd be nice if they added Geomancer's concept to WHM and drop the WHM crap of it being "the pure healer"

I'd like them to implement a druid. It would be a mix of Geomancer and Beastmaster. You can use the power of nature but you also have an animal companion (Eagle, Bear, Wolf)

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

All the more reason why it'd be nice if they added Geomancer's concept to WHM and drop the WHM crap of it being "the pure healer"

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That kind of ties back into what bothered me about WHM's quest line in SB - they didn't have one. E-Sumi-Bro and Sylphie being there as well as talking about the CNJ guild headquarters made it a CNJ story. And given how much of the 1-30 storyline was about cleansing impurities and taints, the 50-60 might as well have been a CNJ story, too. It's like they can't afford to double down on Amdapori lore like they do with Mhach for BLM and Nym for SCH which leaves them with CNJ bare-bones. So either they get over themselves and give us the WHM lore we truly deserve, detached from present-day Gridania, or double down on the CNJ lore and build up more elements of the class/job. SB BRD storyline suffered from this too but not only was it at the heart of the SB story, you ran only with BRD-story NPCs so it wasn't as bad for me.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Dark Knights weren't established in the canon prior to HW though, meanwhile Geomancers were established to be foils to ASTs and healers in their own right in the AST 60-70 quest line. If they do introduce Geomancer they'll have to find a way to set them apart from AST and CNJ on at least a lore front, because right now there's nothing there. They use the same elements as CNJ and were established to be AST's matches, the biggest difference is that geomancers look at Hydaelyn whereas ASTs look at the starts, but it's ultimately the same aether. The comparison was the core of the AST 60-70 line. In many ways it buried the job's chances of making it into the game as it opened the door for it.

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They were not presented as healers in the sb story, they were presented as wardens, they create seals and shields to bind evil forces.
Which other role creates shields to prevent damage? Tank

Not once were the AST geomancers healing, they were pushing back evil influences with their incantations/seals, AST was the one healing.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

They were not presented as healers in the sb story, they were presented as wardens, they create seals and shields to bind evil forces.
Which other role creates shields to prevent damage? Tank

Not once were the AST geomancers healing, they were pushing back evil influences with their incantations/seals, AST was the one healing.

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Looks like the Geomancer used CNJ cures here. Same animation as the CNJ cure and the wrath's HP goes up

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

Which other role creates shields to prevent damage? Tank

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Tanks are inferior in protecting other party members compared to Scholar and Astrologian in Nocturnal Sect, and are equal to a Diurnal AST thanks to Collective Unconscious having shields backed into it. White Mage is behind those two but with Divine Benison they're actually on par with Dark Knight with how well they can prevent damage to other party members. That's just remembering skills, it's far, far from their role to do so. (EDIT: admitting to slightly misread that and focused on party defense. but the point still holds in that all healers have shielding capabilities, with SCH's shields being its thing and AST having an option at it. Shields are hardly a Tank exclusive thing)
Then we have our AST NPC wanting to study under Leveva. Their arts are said to be roughly identical, the source of the aether they call upon is different, that's all. Geomancers being tanks makes no sense within the lore established for them and their comparisons within the game so far. I agree letting them be tank would be about the only way in which they can have a right to exist within the game, as between CNJ and AST they're redundant, but it's that role switch that's a problem.

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Originally Posted by Ariane

Looks like the Geomancer used CNJ cures here. Same animation as the CNJ cure and the wrath's HP goes up

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Makes sense, they do call upon the same elements. Cure is a wind spell.

Um...What's the point of this discussion about the NPC, really?! In this game gladiator NPC's can heal. An ex-warrior NPC at lvl60 heals for ~10000HP with a spell that I don't recall seeing. Black mages use spells not available to players. Same with just about any other class.

Don't base anything on NPC's and their skill sets. Yes, the LORE suggests that if they will come, they're more likely to come as healers. Frankly I hope not...at least not in 5.0 seeing as I want a dancer and for it to be a healer and I doubt we'd get two healers...but hey.

By the way, Black Magic and White Magic have the same origin as far as I remember the lore related to them. Black magic as it is was simply formed when Shantotto decided that she's not happy with just her own aether cause it limits how much boom and blast she can do so she invented a way to draw in outside aether. That's all. There is no reason to assume that there are no branches of geomancers that are basically any of the three roles. Ones focused on destroying evil (DPS), ones on wards (tanks) and ones on restoring damage caused by evil (healers). The NPC's grandfather (or was it father?!) could have been the "wards" type, seeing as he made a ward powerful enough to hold the beast for so long without sacrificing anyone's life.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Tanks are inferior in protecting other party members compared to Scholar and Astrologian in Nocturnal Sect, and are equal to a Diurnal AST thanks to Collective Unconscious having shields backed into it. White Mage is behind those two but with Divine Benison they're actually on par with Dark Knight with how well they can prevent damage to other party members. That's just remembering skills, it's far, far from their role to do so. (EDIT: admitting to slightly misread that and focused on party defense. but the point still holds in that all healers have shielding capabilities, with SCH's shields being its thing and AST having an option at it. Shields are hardly a Tank exclusive thing)
Then we have our AST NPC wanting to study under Leveva. Their arts are said to be roughly identical, the source of the aether they call upon is different, that's all. Geomancers being tanks makes no sense within the lore established for them and their comparisons within the game so far. I agree letting them be tank would be about the only way in which they can have a right to exist within the game, as between CNJ and AST they're redundant, but it's that role switch that's a problem.

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Tell that to a warrior casting shake it off, a drk casting blackest knight, and a paldin casting the wings. Point is, the tank role is also a protect role. In fact, tanking is more about protecting than the healer role is, healing is the curing role. But I see you admitted that point was right in your edit.

On your point about Leveva, he went to learn how to heal, something Geomancers are not good at, which is why, we, the real astrologians had to be there to really heal the demon spirit.

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Makes sense, they do call upon the same elements. Cure is a wind spell.

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Just so that we're clear, Geomancer is not solely an elemental mage. Geomancer is directly related to the natural flow of the earth which consists of using the earth as a source of energy which is closer to using the environment as a weapon/tool rather than just summoning the elements (fire, wind, earth; the elements are limited to their properties). The environment on the other hand isn't limited to the elements, a geomancer can summon lava from below or turn air into a tornado or even mix that tornado to create a hurricane, sandstorms, dust storms. Furthermore it's not limited to air effects, it could use any natural object or fauna it can find (grass, trees, or even stone (oh! they removed stoneskin from healers, hmm wonder if it's coming back).

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

On your point about Leveva, he went to learn how to heal, something Geomancers are not good at, which is why, we, the real astrologians had to be there to really heal the demon spirit.

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He already knows how to heal as he too helped heal during the solo duties. He doesn't want to learn healing from Leveva, he wants to learn of the Diurnal sect. That's because what geomancers already have is similar to Nocturnal sect. ASTs aren't all about the pure healing, they can shield just fine. I'd say they shield better than Geomancers given how we basically saved the day by patching up their wards.

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Geomancer is directly related to the natural flow of the earth which consists of using the earth as a source of energy

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1. As I said before, they acknowledged that in the game thoroughly, with AST drawing that energy from other stars and planets while geomancers draw it from Hydaelyn - they admitted all these similarities which is why he wants to study from Leveva, see what he's missing. And White Mages don't tap as much into the elements as much as they do the life force itself. So again, geomancer doesn't bring anything new to the table
2. Everything else you said makes them an aoe dps, not a tank. Or a support dps. That would give them a right to exist, tie in with the existing lore (since they did need ASTs - healers - to help with everything), and leave DNC free to be a healer

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Originally Posted by kikix12

wards (tanks)

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Nymian Scholars would like to have a word with you about the role you assigned to them

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Nymian Scholars would like to have a word with you about the role you assigned to them

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This have literally no sense whatsoever.

First, I was talking about geomancers. All three tanks use some sort of party-protecting ability. Maybe Nymian Scholars want to have a word with them too?!

Second, Nymian Scholars are known for their STRATEGY. The shields are not actually related to the lore directly as far as I can remember from doing the scholars quests. There is nothing in the lore to my knowledge saying that they cast protecting shields over their allies. It's just a mechanical effect, just like Resurrect doesn't actually resurrect and "dead" players aren't actually dead. That's why player can't REALLY resurrect the people that die, like Moenbryda etc. And there's a bunch of other stuff like this, too. Heck, astrologians cards are just like that.

The shields, in my opinion at least, represent the scholars commanding a person in such a way as to have them avoid the approaching damage through outsmarting the opponent. That is in tune with their strategic lore. Know your enemy and all that stuff.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

This have literally no sense whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Lore book's entry on SCH

Adloquium - The scholar's standard-issue healing spell. As well as closing wounds, Adloquium was designed to grant a secondary-effect: a temporary arcane shield that helped protect front-line marines from further injury

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If that still doesn't sell you on that point, feel free to tell me how Noct ASTs are tanks. Because those had an entire quest line about enforcing a geomancer's wards with that sect.
As for raising, that I will yield the semantics are off. We can't ressurect Moen, nor could we Hauchy (though that one was dumb if you were a healer or even a SMN). But there's a reason why the debuff is called 'brink of death' - we're tied to Hydaelyn, we can't die for real so we stay in a sort of limbo, and so we can be brought back. That's what goes down with that. Hell even the warning marks we see are the Echo telling us to get away from danger. Basically everything that happens in combat is canon.

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Originally Posted by LastFireAce

Well 5.0 for me would be Geomancer, Blue Mage , Dancer

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-Dancer ----------> Extra Collector Edition only (you know, the one a 250 bucks)
-Blue Mage ------> Unlock on Cash Shop only (limited in time)
-Geomancer------> Only available with premium sub on the app (and you'll have to use one moogle coin a day to play the job)

Please, look forward to it !

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

Just so that we're clear, Geomancer is not solely an elemental mage. Geomancer is directly related to the natural flow of the earth which consists of using the earth as a source of energy which is closer to using the environment as a weapon/tool rather than just summoning the elements (fire, wind, earth; the elements are limited to their properties). The environment on the other hand isn't limited to the elements, a geomancer can summon lava from below or turn air into a tornado or even mix that tornado to create a hurricane, sandstorms, dust storms. Furthermore it's not limited to air effects, it could use any natural object or fauna it can find (grass, trees, or even stone (oh! they removed stoneskin from healers, hmm wonder if it's coming back).

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You're talking about a different Geomancer than the one present in this game. Geomancy is a form of divination. It is based on historical geomancy. More specifically, it's also based on Eastern Geomancy.

This is why it's so linked to Astromancy, which is also a form of divination, but by reading the stars instead of the earth. In the storyline, they come to the conclusion that Astromancy and Geomancy are basically the same thing, just a different way of looking at it.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I agree letting them be tank would be about the only way in which they can have a right to exist within the game, as between CNJ and AST they're redundant, but it's that role switch that's a problem.

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Given that Geomancer (Feng Shui) lore was lost and the one guy in the AST storyline is the only one who knows any of it, needed the AST's help to band-aid the seals to Kugane, not make new ones, I think if it's introduced, it's already been pigeon-holed as a healer. "Kyokuho of Wind and Water" = reads exactly like a Conjurer.

But that to the OP, the geomancer stuff is just lore. Just like there is a Musketeer guild, but no Musketeer class in the game.

Anyone who has played most of the job quests, and was paying attention would remember there's references to a lot of "ancient" things that are no longer in the world, (or even no longer in the world as of 2.0)

So just based on the bits already in the game, read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feng_shui and take a look at how it overlaps with the current patch 4.1+ MSQ storyline. Taken literately, Geomancy would have to be a healer or a tank.

I stand corrected on Scholars and their shields.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

If that still doesn't sell you on that point, feel free to tell me how Noct ASTs are tanks. Because those had an entire quest line about enforcing a geomancer's wards with that sect.

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However, you still miss the point. I never said that wards and shields define a tank. I said that there would be nothing weird with there being a tank geomancer, with it being a branch focusing on wards. It have NOTHING to do with any other job at all.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Basically everything that happens in combat is canon.

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I'm not talking about "what happens in combat" and all that. I'm talking about there being skills that are merely mechanical representations of effects, while the skills themselves are, lore-wise, doing something else (though related). Best seen with Spear on Astrologian. While its lore remained the same, its effect is vastly different. Clearly it's made to match this being a game, thus there are gaming mechanics. That's what is being talked here about.

I wouldn't be surprised if we got geomancer as a healer or a caster variant of BRD/MCH

they really like using FFXI as a starting point it feels like and geomancer is a full on support in that. They were so good at support in fact that groups would often drop a dps for a second geomancer. Lorewise they even make the geomancers out like they are very similar to astrologian but terrestrial vs cosmic so that would hint at the next healer.

You only meet one and it is during a job questline but he hints that it is a group