Machinist confuses the hell out of me

I have loved the notion of this job ever since Heavensward announced it. I just recently got mine to 70 but it still confuses me more than any other job out there.

I looked at the de-facto guide and was completely lost. I get that we need to build up heat and then use our supercharged skills to get almost to overheating, then use Wildfire once you overheat -- but the opener just completely boggles me.

The whole thing is like a minute long and that's a lot to remember. One "tick" of Flamethrower? I don't even know what that means. One second? And if you slip up, your DPS just hits rock bottom and starts to dig.

I want to love this class, I really do, but it just baffles me. Halp!

I can clarify on the "tick" at least:

A "tick" is when the server actually applies things like DoT damage (That gets applied every 3 seconds) or in this case heat increase from flamethrower. Flamethrower will tick multiple times and apply heat with each, but since it's a DPS loss to hold, you only want it to tick once to enter overheat. If you cancel the skill before the "tick", the server won't have applied the heat yet and you won't enter overheat with it, wasting time and the CD.

How long it takes for a "tick" to happen in practice can vary a bit. In effect, that means that you build up heat until only one heat tick from flamethrower is required, then hold it until that tick happens.

Tbh, this is the only thing that I would change in the MCH: the Flamethrower. In FF XIV, Tick are really... Strange, and it's an issue.
However, that doesn't stop me to play MCH, and I hope you'll love too once you've understood how the MCH works ;)
Don't forget to train on dummies, they are in the game just for that.

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

I looked at the de-facto guide and was completely lost... ...I want to love this class, I really do, but it just baffles me. Halp!

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If you're talking about this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing I'm more than happy to clarify things in the guide and help with any questions you might have. My contact info is at the end of the document so just look me up on The Balance Discord or dm me directly!

How do I get to the Balance Discord?

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

How do I get to the Balance Discord?

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The Balance is a server on the Discord platform. You can join the server through this link: https://discord.gg/CjQkEn3
Read the #welcome channel for rules and how to join specific class channels.

Just need to practice the rotation, I'd recommend trying to adjust your hotbars to accommodate the order of abilities (slightly helped me). I think they are matched up as well as they can be with regards to animation lock and what not, so just stick to the order it shows - it works.

You don't really need to focus on building gauge as it happens naturally, the main thing you want to keep an eye on is if you will overheat before Wildfire. If so you should use a Cooldown shot to reduce gauge until you are ready for burst window. This is a bigger issue if you have a lot of skill speed.

For Flamethrower ticks, think of it like a DoT, ticks happen every 2.5 or 3.0 seconds. The important thing to note is you want to anticipate when you will receive the final tick so you can start your GCD attack immediately upon Overheat (like almost a fraction before you get the actual tick). This is so you can fit maximum GCDs into your Overheat window.

The rotation is a minute long but only like 15 seconds is what you need to focus on, the rest of the rotation is just killing time until your next Wildfire/Overheat burst window. It's not too complicated once you get the hang of, just keep practicing and it will make more sense. You're on Levi so if you want I can show you more specifically in-game later. MCH isn't my main but I do enjoy the hell out of it :D

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Originally Posted by Zojha

A "tick" is when the server actually applies things like DoT damage (That gets applied every 3 seconds) or in this case heat increase from flamethrower. Flamethrower will tick multiple times and apply heat with each, but since it's a DPS loss to hold, you only want it to tick once to enter overheat.

How long it takes for a "tick" to happen in practice can vary a bit. In effect, that means that you build up heat until only one heat tick from flamethrower is required, then hold it until that tick happens.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

For Flamethrower ticks, think of it like a DoT, ticks happen every 2.5 or 3.0 seconds.

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I just want to clarify a couple of misconceptions:
-Flamethrower ticks once per second for a total of 11 ticks over the 10 sec buff duration (a "tick" is the moment when the damage applies and heat is gained). This tick timer is also not a part of the 3 second "server tick" and the timing will not vary unless you lag.
-2 tick Flamethrower is stronger than 1 tick, you only start to lose efficiency at 3 ticks. But even so, Flamethrower is never a dps loss if it's used to Overheat for Wildfire because the damage gain from the buff easily makes up for the lost GCDs and AAs.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

I just want to clarify a couple of misconceptions:
-Flamethrower ticks once per second for a total of 11 ticks over the 10 sec buff duration (a "tick" is the moment when the damage applies and heat is gained). This tick timer is also not a part of the 3 second "server tick" and the timing will not vary unless you lag.
-2 tick Flamethrower is stronger than 1 tick, you only start to lose efficiency at 3 ticks. But even so, Flamethrower is never a dps loss if it's used to Overheat for Wildfire because the damage gain from the buff easily makes up for the lost GCDs and AAs.

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How do these ticks work then?
Does Flamethrower "bank" damage each second, then the server tallies then up and applies either 1, 2 or 3 ticks worth of damage every 'server tick'?

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

How do these ticks work then?
Does Flamethrower "bank" damage each second, then the server tallies then up and applies either 1, 2 or 3 ticks worth of damage every 'server tick'?

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There's no banking of anything, Flamethrower has nothing to do with server ticks or DoTs, it's a channeled attack that applies damage once per second.

Press Flamethrower. AAs are stopped and animation begins.
→after one second, 60 potency attack happens in a cone in front of you, 20 heat is gained. ← (this is one "tick")
→after one second, 60 potency attack happens in a cone in front of you, 20 heat is gained.
→after one second, 60 potency attack happens in a cone in front of you, 20 heat is gained.
→repeat for up to 11 times total or until channeling is interrupted.

And all this time I thought server ticks were a "technical" limitation, or rather one artificially enforced to balance for players with slower connections.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

I just want to clarify a couple of misconceptions:
-Flamethrower ticks once per second for a total of 11 ticks over the 10 sec buff duration (a "tick" is the moment when the damage applies and heat is gained). This tick timer is also not a part of the 3 second "server tick" and the timing will not vary unless you lag.
-2 tick Flamethrower is stronger than 1 tick, you only start to lose efficiency at 3 ticks. But even so, Flamethrower is never a dps loss if it's used to Overheat for Wildfire because the damage gain from the buff easily makes up for the lost GCDs and AAs.

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Yea, I just figured the DoT tick example would help clarify what a"tick" meant exactly. As a side note, I never see damage numbers from Flamethrower. Is that common? I just assume it's doing what it's supposed to lol (or maybe I just have a bad camera angle and not seeing them)

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

And all this time I thought server ticks were a "technical" limitation, or rather one artificially enforced to balance for players with slower connections.

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The three second server tick reduces calculation and communication requirements drastically. A 1s tick for just a single ability on a job played by a tiny percentage of the players is one thing. Tripling the server load for all the other XoTs would be another thing entirely.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

As a side note, I never see damage numbers from Flamethrower. Is that common? I just assume it's doing what it's supposed to lol (or maybe I just have a bad camera angle and not seeing them)

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It sounds like you have pop-up text disabled. Your own direct damage and damage done to you is "flying text" -- it scrolls continuously in one direction from the time it happens to the time it disappears from the screen. Periodic damage done to enemies uses pop-up text -- it "pops up" out of the target and falls back down with a little bounce. If you have flying text enabled and pop-up text disabled, you would see all of your attack numbers except for DoTs.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

It sounds like you have pop-up text disabled. Your own direct damage and damage done to you is "flying text" -- it scrolls continuously in one direction from the time it happens to the time it disappears from the screen. Periodic damage done to enemies uses pop-up text -- it "pops up" out of the target and falls back down with a little bounce.

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Mmm. I don't think so, I see all the other damage numbers just fine. I'll guess I'll try it out on a dummy tonight, could just be that there are too many things going off in an actual instance so I just don't notice them. No bid deal either way was just kinda curious.

I really hate the design of MCH since SB and it’s a shame cause I loved it in HW. It’s just so frantic, like, in HW it was fast paced but this is just over the top... and it has nothing really to show for it.

I’m trying to beat the Sigma 1 savage SSS dummy as an i348 MCH and I just can’t kill it. My fingers HURT from all the frantic button pressing and I’m only pulling off just over 4.3k dps, it’s insane, no other job puts me through this much trouble for such little return. I probably don’t have the world first level rotation or anything but I really shouldn’t need to just to down the first tier savage dummy 8 ilvls over the minimum.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

I really hate the design of MCH since SB and it’s a shame cause I loved it in HW. It’s just so frantic, like, in HW it was fast paced but this is just over the top... and it has nothing really to show for it.

I’m trying to beat the Sigma 1 savage SSS dummy as an i348 MCH and I just can’t kill it. My fingers HURT from all the frantic button pressing and I’m only pulling off just over 4.3k dps, it’s insane, no other job puts me through this much trouble for such little return. I probably don’t have the world first level rotation or anything but I really shouldn’t need to just to down the first tier savage dummy 8 ilvls over the minimum.

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While you're not wrong, I wouldn't worry too much about the dummy, I think they set the ilvl intentionally low for savage so the world first people can get in there early, it should be easier when your average ilvl is over 350.