Hello Everyone and welcome
Before we begin I'd like to ask everyone a question. What do you all think of when you think of Summoner in regards to Final Fantasy. You don't think of DoTs and DoT manipulation. You think of big powerful avatars of primal forces dealing massive damage in one or two attacks and a toolbox as big as a suburban garage.
To that end I'd like to present a hypothetical rebuild of the SMN Job in FFXIV that would bring the job more in line with that image that people have of it, as well as iron out some of the kinks in it. Now before we get into this, there are a couple of fundamental issues with the pet AI that need to be addressed first. No one can say that the Pet AI in FFXIV is good. The best you can say is “mediocre”. Myself and many others would say it's “bad”. The AI is barely responsive, sometimes taking several seconds to register that a command has been issued, if it ever recognizes it at all. These commands should be as responsive as actions that are executed on the player ends and thus the AI is the main bottleneck to any true revamp of SMN.
I'd also propose a change to Sic, Obey and Heel. As part of this rebuild I'm proposing that each pet have it's own series of combos that are manually controlled by the player, functioning as off-GCD abilities of their own right. To that end, the Sic and Obey commands would have to be changed to function more akin to stances, with Sic causing any pet action executed to be executed on the Summoners target and Obey causing them to be executed on the pets target. This would allow the Summoner to split their DPS between two different targets. Finally a quality of life change to Heel with it teleporting your pet back to your location instead of causing the pet to travel manually.
What I'll be posting here is a mostly fleshed out complete rework of SMN in order to both seperate it from SCH and bring the the gameplay, fluff and lore more in line with what people expect out of a Final Fantasy Summoner instead of being cribbed off of Warlock from WoW or Bahamut Mage.
A couple of TL;DRs. First, I am not a mathematician, nor am I a skilled Theorycrafter, so the numbers here almost certainly need work. Secondly, In this rebuild summoning Bahamut/Elder Primals does not lock you out of Dreadwyrm Trance and Dreadwyrm Trance stacks don't lock you out of Aetherflow. This is both to A) Smooth out the game play a little bit and B) Allow skilled players to hold their Trance Gauge and Dreadwyrm Trance in order to line up all of their buffs and states for maximum damage output.
Please save all questions and commentary after having read the whole thing.
Summoner
Classification
Disciple of Magic
Weapon
Crystal Focus
Role
Magic Damage
Functionality Changes From Current Summoner
- No animation lock for SMN on pet actions
- SMN and pets have separate global cooldowns
- SMN can use pet actions while casting
- Increased Response time for pet commands
Job Actions:
Evoke
lvl 1
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: 30y
Radius:0
Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 50.
Summon I (Wind Sprite)[Garuda lvl 45]
lvl 2
Cast time 3.0s
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: 0
Radius:0
Summons a caster-type pet to fight by your side.
Invigorate
lvl 4
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: unlimited/self
Radius: 0
Your pet gains 20% increased damage and 10% increased critical hit rate for 24s.
Purify
lvl 4
Cast time: 2.0s
Coodlown: 2.5s
Range: 30y/unlimited
Restore the HP of your target and your pet. (Int based)
Cure potency: 300
Aetherflow
lvl 6
Cast time: Instant
Cooldown: 30s
Range: 0
Radius: 0
Restores 20% of maximum MP
Additional Effect: Aetherflow
Command
lvl 6
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 10 seconds
Your pet uses it's signature attack.
Additional effect: Grants 1 stack of Primal Attunement.
Consumes a stack of Aetherflow.
Trance
lvl 8
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 1 seconds
Range: Self
Radius: 0
Your next Summon spell will instead give you the corresponding Trance. Lasts until canceled.
Painflare
lvl 10
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 10s
Range: 30y
Radius: 5y
Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 180 to target an all enemies nearby it.
Summon II (Earth Sprite)[Titan Lvl 35] {Level 15 Class Quest}
lvl 15
Cast Time: 3.0s
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: 0
Radius:0
Summons a tank-type pet to fight at your side.
Sustain
lvl 18
Cast time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: Unlimited/self
Continuously restores 8% of your and your pets health over a period of 10s. (Total of 24%)
Reincarnation
lvl 18
Cast Time: 8 sec
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: 30y
Radius: 0
Resurrects target to a weakened state.
Infuse
lvl 26
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: unlimited/self
Radius: 0
Your pet gains 20% Spell Speed and Skill Speed for 30s.
Enkindle
lvl 30
Cast time: Instant
Cooldown 1s
Range: Unlimited
Radius: 0
Infuses your pet with aether, increasing it's Strength and Intelligence 10%. Stacks up to 3 times. Addtional Effect: Grants 1 stack of Primal Attunement. Consumes one stack of Aetherflow. Duration: Unlimited
Summon III (Ifirit)
lvl 30
Cast Time: 3.0s
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: 0
Radius: 0
Summons an attacker-type pet to fight at your side.
Unleash
lvl 35
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 60s
Range: varies
Radius: varies
Commands your pet to use it's ultimate attack.
Aether Shift
Level 38
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 30s
Range: Unlimited
Radius: 0
Sacrifice your pet. Your next Summon spell is instant cast and all buffs that were on your pet when you sacrificed it will be applied to the new Summon at their maximum duration. Duration 20s.
Primal Trance
lvl 40
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 20s
Range: Unlimited/self
Radius: 0
Duration: 16s
Increases Magic and Pet damage by 10%.
Additional Effect: Resets Animate recast timer.
Additional Effect: Increases Trance Gauge when effect ends.
Can only be executed when Primal Attunement gauge is at 3.
Invoke
lvl 40
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 1s
Range: 30y
Radius 4y
Deals elemental damage with a potency of 400 to target and all enemies nearby it.
Can only be used while in Primal Trance. Effect ends upon use. Damage type depends upon Trance.
- Wind Sprite/Garuda-Wind
- Titan-Earth
- Ifirit-Fire
- Leviathan-Water
- Ramuh-Lightning
- Shiva-Ice
Rouse
lvl 42
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 90s
Range: Unlimited
Radius: 0
Increases damage and healing done by your pet by 40% and reduces damage taken by pet by 40%. While roused, pet will be immune to stun, sleep, bind, heavy, paralysis and disease. Duration: 20s.
Rebind
lvl 45
Cast time: Instant
Cooldown: 60s
Range:0
Radius:0
Your next summon has all buffs of your previous Summon at their previous duration. Can only be used if you have no active Summon.
Spur
lvl 48
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 120s
Range: unlimited
Radius: 0
Increases a pet's damage by 40% and it's critical hit chance by 10% for 20s
Aether Overdrive
lvl 50
Cast Time: 5s
Cooldown: 180s
Range: 30y
Radius: 0y
Grants the target Damage Up (10%), Refresh and Tactician for a duration of 20s. After 20s the target is afflicted with Vulnerability Up(10%) and is dealt unaspected damage over time with a potency of 35 for a duration of 10s.
Astral Flow
Level 50
Cast Time: 4.0s
Cooldown: 300s
Range: Varies
Radius: Varies
Sacrifice your pet to use it's Astral Flow ability.
Aether Barrier
Level 52
Cast Time: 5s
Cooldown: 300s
Grants Vulnerability(10%) down to all party and raid members for 10s. When this effect ends, all effected players are granted a healing over time effect for 50 potency and a duration of 20s.
Summon IV (Leviathan)
lvl 52
Cast Time: 3.0s
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: 0
Radius: 0
Summons an attacker-type pet to fight at your side.
Summon V [Ramuh]
lvl 54
Cast time 3.0s
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: 0
Radius:0
Summons a caster-type pet to fight by your side.
Akh Morn
lvl 56
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 90s
Range: 30y
Radius 4y
Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 600 to target and all enemies nearby it.
Summon VI [Shiva]
lvl 56
Cast Time: 3.0s
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: 0
Radius:0
Summons a tank-type pet to fight at your side.
Invoke Phoenix
lvl 58
Cast Time: 8s
Cooldown: 300s
Raise the three players closest to you into a weakened state.
Twin Summon
Level 60
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 180s
Range: 0
Radius: 0
Summon a second pet for 45s with all the buffs on your current pet at their max duration. That spell is instant cast.
Energize
lvl 62
Cast time: Instant
Cooldown 180s
25y
Erects a magicked barrier around a single party member or pet for 30s.
Barrier effect: 20% that when barrier is struck it will restore 100% of damage dealt as MP and TP to you and the target.
Animate
lvl 64
Instant
Cooldown: 60s
Range: Unlimited/self
Radius: 0
Grants your pet Invigorate and Infuse. Duration 24s and 30s respectively.
Megaflare
lvl 66
Cast Time: 2.5s
Cooldown: 180s
Range: 25y
Radius: 8y
Deal unaspected damage with a potency of 800 to target and all enemies nearby it.
Zantetsuken
lvl 66
Cast Time: 2.5s
Cooldown: 180s
Range: 25y
Radius: N/A
Deal unaspected damage with a potency of 999 to target.
Divine Judgement
Lvl 66
Cast Time: 2.5s
Cooldown: 180s
Range: 25y
Radius: Circle 5y
Deal unaspected damage with a potency of 700 to all enemies in a designated area.
Summon Bahamut
Level 70
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 90s
Summons Demi-Bahamut to fight by your side.
Each time your pet uses an action on a target, Demi-Bahamut will execute Wyrmwave on the same target.
Each time you use Command on a target, Demi-Bahamut will execute Akh-Morn(Bahamut) on the same target.
Duration: 20s
Trance Gauge Cost: 2
Summon Odin
Level 70
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 90s
Summons Demi-Odin to fight by your side.
Each time your pet uses an action on a target, Demi-Odin will execute Valknut on the same target.
Each time you use Command on a target, Demi-Odin will execute Gungnir on the same target.
Duration: 20s
Trance Gauge Cost: 2
Summon Alexander
Level 70
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 90s
Summons Demi-Alexander to fight by your side.
Each time your pet uses an action on a target, Demi-Alexander will execute Punishing Heat on the same target.
Each time you use Command on a target, Demi-Alexander will execute Sacrament on the same target.
Duration: 20s
Trance Gauge Cost: 2
Command Elder Primal
Level 70
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 22s
Commands active Elder Primal to use their signature attack on a target.
Pet Actions:
Wind Sprite:
Aero Range 25y Radius 3y
Deal wind damage with a potency of 80 to all targets in range.
Tornado Range 25y Radius 2y
Deal wind damage with a potency of 60 to all targets in range.
Combo Action: Aero
Combo Potency: 120
Command:
Whirlwind
Range 25y
Radius 5y
Deal wind damage with a potency of 150 to the target and all targets nearby and knock them all back 10-yalms.
Trance:
Trance-Wind Sprite
Gives a 2.5% Spell Speed increase and access to Evoke: Wind Sprite
Evoke:
Evoke- Wind Sprite
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: 30y
Radius:0
Deals Wind damage with a potency of 40 to the target and all nearby enemies.
Unleash:
Twister
Range 25y
Radius 5y
Deals Wind damage with a potency of 200 to target and all enemies nearby it.
Earth Sprite:
Stone
Range 10y
Radius 0
Deal earth damage with a potency of 40 to the target.
Additional Effect: Increased enmity
Fissure
Range 10y
Radius 0
Deal earth damage with a potency of 30 to the target.
Combo Action: Stone
Combo Potency: 80
Combo Additional Effect: Increased enmity
Quake
Range 0
Radius: 10y
Deal earth damage with a potency of 20 to all targets in range.
Additional Effect: Increased Enmity
Command:
Earth Armor
Range: self
Radius: self
Reduces damage taken by 10% for 3 seconds.
Trance:
Trance- Earth Sprite
Gives a 5% Vulnerability reduction and access to Evoke: Earth Sprite
Evoke:
Evoke-Earth Sprite
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: 30y
Radius:0
Deals Earth damage with a potency of 55.
Unleash Wrath:
Earthpower
Deals earth damage with a potency of 100 to all nearby targets.
Additional Effect: Increased Enmity
Additional Effect: Razed Earth Potency: 20
Duration 15s
Ifirit:
Inferno Claw
Deal Fire damage with a potency of 60.
Burning Strike
Deal Fire damage with a potency of 100.
Combo Action: Inferno Claw
Combo Potency: 120
Radiant Plume
Deal Fire damage with a potency of 100.
Combo Action: Burning Strike
Combo Potency: 160
Combo Additional Effect: Fire damage over time. Potency: 15. Duration 10s.
Crimson Cyclone
Deal Fire damage with a potency of 60
Additional Effect: Charge to target's location.
Flaming Crash
Deal fire damage with a potency of 100
Combo Action: Crimson Cyclone
Combo Potency: 120
Combo Additional Affect: Increases fire damage taken by 10%. Duration 45 seconds.
Radiant Shield
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range:unlimited
Radius: 0
Applies a shield to all party members that causes 50 potency fire damage to any time physical damage is suffered. Duration 5min.
Command:
Blastburn
Blast of fire deals Fire damage with a potency of 140 Addtional Effect: Fire damage over time: Potency: 10. Duration: 6s.
Trance:
Trance-Ifirit
Gives a 5% damage increase and access to Evoke: Ifirit.
Evoke:
Evoke-Ifirit
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: 30y
Radius:0
Deals Fire damage with a potency of 80.
Additional Effect: Fire damage over time Potency: 10. Duration 9 sec.
Unleash:
Hellfire
Deal fire damage with a potency of 300.
Additional Effect: Fire damage over time Potency: 25
Duration: 15 seconds
Astral Flow:
Inferno
Range: 0
Radius: 15y
Deal fire damage with a potency of 800 to all nearby enemies.
Additional Effect: Additional Effect: Fire damage over time Potency: 70 Duration 60 seconds.
Titan
Rock Buster
Deals Earth damage with a potency of 60.
Additional Effect: Increased Enmity
Tumult Radius 4y
Deals Earth damage with a potency of 40 to all nearby enemies.
Additional Effect: Increased Enmity.
Geocrush Radius 6y
Deals Earth damage with a potency of 50 to all nearby enemies
Combo Action: Tumult
Combo Potency: 80
Combo Additionl Effect: Increased Enmity
Mountain Buster
Deals Earth damage with a potency of 80.
Combo Action: Rock Buster
Combo Potency: 100
Combo Additional Effect: Increased Enmity
Landslide Range 25y Recast 40s
Deal Earth damage with a potency of 50.
Additional Effect: Maximize Enmity in the target.
Earthen Ward
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: Unlimited
Radius: 0
Has a chance on being attacked to give a damage shield with a potency of 50.
Command:
Stone Fist
Earthen fists deal Earth damage with a potency of 150 to main enemy and stun them for 3 seconds.
Trance:
Trance-Titan
Gives a 10% Vulnerability reduction and access to Evoke: Titan
Evoke:
Evoke-Titan
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: 30y
Radius:0
Deals Earth damage with a potency of 60.
Unleash:
Sanctuary of Stone
Deals earth damage with a potency of 120 to all nearby targets and grants a shield for the amount.
Additional Effect: Master gains immunity for 6 seconds.
Additional Effect: Increased Enmity
Additional Effect: Razed Earth Potency: 20
Duration 15s
Astral Flow:
Earthen Fury
Range: 0
Radius: 8y
Deal earth damage with a potency of 700 to all nearby enemies.
Additional Effect: Earthen Sanctuary: Allies standing in this zone gain 20% damage reduction. Duration: 10s
Garuda
Friction Range 25y Radius 5y
Deal wind damage with a potency of 60 to all targets in range.
Wind Blade Range 25y Radius 3y
Deal wind damage with a potency of 70 to all targets in range.
Aerial Slash Range 25y Radius 4y
Deal wind damage with a potency of 60 to all targets in range.
Combo Action: Friction
Combo Potency: 100
Combo Additional Effect: Increases Wind Damage taken by 5%. Duration 45 seconds.
Combo Action:Wind Blade
Combo Potency: 120
Wicked Wheel Range 25y Radius 8y
Deal wind damage with a potency of 60 to all targets in range.
Combo Action: Aerial Slash
Combo Potency: 130
Combo Additional Effect: Wind Damage over time with a potency of 15. Duration 45 seconds.
Mistral Shriek Range 25y Radius 5y
Deals wind damage with a potency of X to all targets in range.
Combo Action: Aerial Slash
Combo Potency: 150.
Windwall:
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: Unlimited
Radius: 0
Grants allies a shield that gives all attacks against them a 5% miss chance. Duration 5min.
Command:
Waking Winds
Gale force winds deal Wind damage with a potency of 120 to all enemies within a 8-yalm radius.
Trance:
Trance-Garuda
Gives a 5% Spell Speed increase and access to Evoke: Garuda
Evoke:
Evoke-Garuda
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: 30y
Radius:0
Deals Wind damage with a potency of 70 to the target and all nearby enemies.
Unleash
Typhoon
Range 25y
Radius 5y
Deals Wind damage with a potency of 250 to target and all enemies nearby it.
Astral Flow:
Aerial Blast
Range: 30y
Radius: 8y
Deal wind damage with a potency of 1000 to the target and all nearby enemies.
Leviathan:
Body Slam
Deal Water damage with a potency of 60.
Barracuda Dive
Deal Water damage with a potency of 100.
Combo Action: Body Slam
Combo Potency: 120
Maelstrom
Deal Water damage with a potency of 100.
Combo Action: Barracuda Dive
Combo Potency: 160
Combo Additional Effect: Water damage over time. Potency: 15. Duration 10s.
Spinning Dive
Deal Water damage with a potency of 60
Additional Effect: Charge to target's location.
Grand Fall
Deal Water damage with a potency of 100
Combo Action: Spinning Dive
Combo Potency: 120
Combo Additional Affect: Increases Water damage taken by 10%. Duration 45 seconds.
Whorl Shield
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range:unlimited
Radius: 0
Applies a shield to all party members that causes 50 potency Water damage to any time physical damage is suffered. Duration 5min.
Command:
Aqua Breath
Blast of water deals Water damage with a potency of 140 Addtional Effect: Water damage over time: Potency: 10. Duration: 6s.
Trance:
Trance-Leviathan
Gives a 5% damage increase and access to Evoke: Leviathan
Evoke:
Evoke-Leviathan
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: 30y
Radius:0
Deals Water damage with a potency of 80.
Additional Effect: Water damage over time Potency: 10. Duration 13sec.
Unleash:
Tidal Roar
Deal Water damage with a potency of 300.
Additional Effect: Water damage over time Potency: 25
Duration: 15 seconds
Astral Flow:
Tidal Wave
Range: 0
Radius: 15y
Deal Water damage with a potency of 800 to all nearby enemies.
Additional Effect: Additional Effect: Water damage over time Potency: 70 Duration 60 seconds.
Ramuh
Chaotic Strike 25y Radius 5y
Deal Lightning damage with a potency of 60 to all targets in range.
Shock Strike Range 25y Radius 3y
Deal Lightning damage with a potency of 70 to all targets in range.
Rolling Thunder Range 25y Radius 4y
Deal Lightning damage with a potency of 60 to all targets in range.
Combo Action: Chaotic Strike
Combo Potency: 100
Combo Additional Effect: Increases Lightning Damage taken by 5%. Duration 45 seconds.
Combo Action:Shock Strike
Combo Potency: 120
Thunderspark Range 25y Radius 8y
Deal Lightning damage with a potency of 100 to all targets in range.
Combo Action: Rolling Thunder
Combo Potency: 130
Combo Additional Effect: Lightning Damage over time with a potency of 15. Duration 45 seconds.
Thundering Arbiter Range 25y Radius 5y
Deals Lightning damage with a potency of 100 to all targets in range.
Combo Action: Rolling Thunder
Combo Potency: 150.
Lightning Armor:
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: Unlimited
Radius: 0
Grants allies a shield that gives all attacks against them a 5% miss chance. Duration 5min.
Command:
Thunderstorm
Lightning falls from the sky dealing Lightning damage with a potency of 120 to all enemies within a 8-yalm radius.
Trance:
Trance-Ramuh
Gives a 5% Spell Speed increase and access to Evoke: Ramuh
Evoke:
Evoke-Ramuh
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: 30y
Radius:0
Deals Lightning damage with a potency of 70 to the target and all nearby enemies.
Unleash
Volt Strike
Range 25y
Radius 5y
Deals Lightning damage with a potency of 250 to target and all enemies nearby it.
Astral Flow:
Judgement Bolt
Range: 30y
Radius: 8y
Deal Lightning damage with a potency of 1000 to the target and all nearby enemies.
Shiva
Icicle Impact
Deals Ice damage with a potency of 80.
Additional Effect: Increased Enmity
Whiteout Radius 4y
Deals Ice damage with a potency of 50 to all nearby enemies.
Additional Effect: Increased Enmity.
Glass Dance Radius 6y
Deals Ice damage with a potency of 50 to all nearby enemies
Combo Action: Whiteout
Combo Potency: 100
Combo Additionl Effect: Increased Enmity
Ice Brand
Deals Ice damage with a potency of 80.
Combo Action: Icicle Impact
Combo Potency: 120
Combo Additional Effect: Increased Enmity
Glacier Bash Range 25y Recast 40s
Deal Ice damage with a potency of 50.
Additional Effect: Maximize Enmity in the target.
Frost Armor
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: Unlimited
Radius: 0
Has a chance on being attacked to give a damage shield with a potency of 50.
Command:
Avalanche
Slams the target with Ice to deal Ice damage with a potency of 180 to main enemy and stun them for 3 seconds.
Trance:
Trance-Shiva
Gives a 10% Vulnerability reduction and access to Evoke: Shiva
Evoke:
Evoke-Shiva
Cast Time: Instant
Cooldown: 2.5s
Range: 30y
Radius:0
Deals Ice damage with a potency of 60.
Unleash:
Dreams of Ice
Deals ice damage with a potency of 100 to all nearby targets and grants a shield for the amount.
Additional Effect: Master gains immunity for 6 seconds.
Additional Effect: Increased Enmity
Additional Effect: Hail Storm Potency: 20
Duration 15s
Astral Flow:
Diamond Dust
Range: 0
Radius: 8y
Deal Ice damage with a potency of 700 to all nearby enemies.
Additional Effect: Frozen Citadel: Allies standing in this zone gain 20% damage reduction. Duration: 10s
Demi-Bahamut
Wyrmwave
Cast: Instant
Cooldown: 0s
Range: 100y
Radius: 0y
Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 120.
Command
Akh Morn (Bahamut)
Range: 100y
Radius: 5y
Deals unaspected damage to a target and all enemies nearby it with a potency of 400.
Command Elder Primal
Megaflare (Bahamut)
Range: 100y
Radius: 8y
Deal unaspected damage with a potency of 800 to target and all enemies nearby it.
Demi-Odin
Valknut
Cast: Instant
Cooldown: 0s
Range: 100y
Radius: 0y
Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 160.
Command
Gungnir (Odin)
Range: 100y
Radius: 5y
Deals unaspected damage to a target with a potency of 500.
Command Elder Primal
Zantetsuken
Range: 100y
Radius: 0y
Deal unaspected damage with a potency of 999 to target.
Demi-Alexander
Punishing Heat
Cast: Instant
Cooldown: 0s
Range: 100y
Radius: 5y
Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 100 to the target and all enemies nearby.
Command
Sacrement
Range: 100y
Radius: 5y
Deals unaspected damage to a target and all enemies nearby it with a potency of 400.
Command Elder Primal
Divine Judgement
Range: 100y
Radius: 12y
Deal unaspected damage with a potency of 600 to target and all enemies nearby it.
Class Traits
Aetherdam
lvl 6
Allows the stacking of one Aetherflow.
Enhanced Intelligence
lvl 20
Increases Int by 8
Maim and Mend
lvl 20
Increases base action damage and HP restoration by 10%. Also increases base damage and HP restoration of your pet by 10%.
Aetherdam II
lvl 20
Allows the stacking of up to two Aetherflows.
Master and Servant
lvl 26
Your spellspeed increases the bonuses of your Invigorate and Infuse.
Enhanced Intelligence II
lvl 40
Increases Int by 16
Aetherdam III
lvl 40
Allows the stacking of up to three Aetherflows.
Maim and Mend II
lvl 40
Increases base action damage and HP restoration by 30%. Also increases base damage and HP restoration of your pet by 30%.
Enhanced Intelligence III
lvl 60
Increases Intelligence by 24.
Enhanced Primal Trance
lvl 70
Grants Elder Primal Aether upon the end of Primal Trance.
Egi Glamour Models
Boss Models
Base-Ifirit Boss Model
Base-Titan Boss Model
Base-Garuda Boss Model
Leviathan Boss Model (Reward: Summon IV Quest)
Ramuh Boss Model (Reward: Summon V Quest)
Shiva Boss Model (Reward: Summon VI Quest)
Ravana Boss Model (Reward: Thok as Thok (Extreme))
Bismarck Boss Model (Reward: The Limitless Blue (Extreme))
Thordan Boss Model (Reward: The Mistrals Ballad: Thordans Reign))
Sephirot Boss Model (Reward: Containment Bay S1T7 (Extreme))
Sophia Boss Model (Reward: Containment Bay P1T6 (Extreme))
Zurvan Boss Model (Reward: Containment Bay Z1T9 (Extreme))
Susano Boss Model (Reward: The Pool of Tribute (Extreme))
Lakshmi Boss Model (Reward: Emanation (Extreme))
Byakko Boss Model (Reward: The Jade Stoa (Extreme))
Sprites
Wind Sprite
Earth Sprite
Fire Sprite
Water Sprite
Lightning Sprite
Ice Sprite
Egis
Ifirit Egi
Titan Egi
Garuda Egi
Leviathan Egi (Reward: Summon IV Quest)
Ramuh Egi (Reward: Summon V Quest)
Shiva Egi (Reward: Summon VI Quest)
Odin Egi (Reward: Urth's Font (Hard))
Ravana Egi (Reward: Thok ast Thok (Hard))
Bismarck Egi (Reward: The Limitless Blue (Hard))
Thordan Egi (Reward: The Singularity Reactor (Hard))
Sephirot Egi (Reward: Containment Bay S1T7 (Hard))
Sophia Egi (Reward: Containment Bay P1T6 (Hard))
Zurvan Egi (Reward: Containment Bay Z1T9 (Hard))
Lakshmi Egi (Reward: Emanation (Hard))
Susano Egi (Reward: The Pool of Tribute (Hard))
Byakko Egi (Reward: The Jade Stoa (Hard))
Carbuncles
Emerald Carbuncle (Quest: The Care and Feeding of Carbuncles)
Topaz Carbuncle (Quest: The Care and Feeding of Carbuncles)
Ruby Carbuncle (Quest: The Care and Feeding of Carbuncles)
Obsidian Carbuncle (Quest: The Care and Feeding of Carbuncles II)
Diamond Carbuncle (Quest: The Care and Feeding of Carbuncles II)
Sapphire Carbuncle (Quest: The Care and Feeding of Carbuncles II)
Demi-Bahamut
Base Bahamut Prime Boss Model
Prescence of Hraesvelgr (Reward: The Mistral's Ballad: Nidhogg's Rage)
Prescence of Nidhogg (Reward: The Mistral's Ballad: Nidhogg's Rage)
Shinryu (Reward:The Royal Menagerie(Extreme))
Mateus (Reward: The Royal City of Rabanstre)
Demi-Odin
Base Odin Boss Model
Rofocale (Reward: The Royal City of Rabanastre)
Argath (Reward: The Royal City of Rabanastre)
Demi-Alexander
Base Alexander Prime Boss Model
Hasmal (Reward: The Royal City of Rabanstre)
Hypothetical Summoner Rebuild
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04-12-2018, 11:53 AMSchrodingersWaffleHypothetical Summoner Rebuild
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04-12-2018, 02:22 PMAomine1992
Well I will start with I live my main class but I do wish we would have went the route of actually more summons like bahamut and evoker like DWT that would have been awesome but I still love my SMN just want more egis please or at least more customizations
Also pet AI and reactions could use some love but that's across the board -
04-12-2018, 03:35 PMPastahnak
I could be reading ur skills wrong but this feels like insane button bloat to me and I honestly don't know where I'd put everything on my hotbar. I do agree a dot class for a summoner feels weird and the gauges being locked behind each other feel unnatural and that could do some reworking but adding these many egis/summons feels overloaded at least to me.
I would like to see more summons like bahamut though where we start to get a rotation going for them. I'll use ur bahamut/Odin/Alexander but once you've gone through two dreadwyrm trances for bahamut you'll get a "buff" for 5-10mins roughly saying if u go through just one dreadwyrm trance you can summon Odin who does less damage but it'll still a powerful summon and the same for Alexander and then again for bahamut.
Also I think an easy fix for egis not responded to skills u tell them to do would be to make their basic skill just an auto attack and the skill u want them to do would become nearly instant. -
04-12-2018, 03:46 PMSchrodingersWaffleIt's mostly the pet skills and extra summons. Apart from that it's pretty much the same number of skills that SMN has currently. If I was gonna cut anything though, it'd probably be the Buff maintenance on the pet. Adds like 5-6 buttons and is too reminiscent of the playstyle of DoT maintenance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastahnak
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04-12-2018, 06:56 PMJandor
That's a lot to read through, I appreciate the effort but could you give a summary of how you imagine it playing out in-game?
Like, at the moment as a Summoner, you get aetherflow, you spend aetherflow to unlock trance, you spend your trance, you repeat until you've unlocked Bahamut. That's a very basic explanation of the loop.
How's your new SMN going to play? -
04-13-2018, 12:45 AMAivi_lo
Have you seen the size of the ps4 hotbars. I can't even imagine how I'd get this to work
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04-13-2018, 12:46 AMEloahNo, Just No.Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersWaffle
I have nothing against you're idea, if you feel like they could use a slight redesign, or if you feel this would've been a good way to implement them, say that. But do not say things like the statement above.
Each job in the series has basically one gimmick, and as long as it holds to that gimmick it can fall in line with the job concept. A Summoner summons, and that's exactly what XIV's version does. Every game in the series has had different takes on its Jobs and Job System, XIV is no exception. The biggest example I like to give is that, Scholar's have never used fairies before, or been DoT mages themselves, but are they getting the same treatment, no, so why is Summoner so special. The Devs have been slowly giving us "flashier" Summoner moves, that feel more iconic, so that's a step in a more classic direction. And, while I never played XI, from what I hear it was no better when the job first released, in fact I heard for about 2 years they only had a Carbuncle summon, at least XIV's is more active. Your using of the word Avatars hints that you may of played XI, but I wont make that assumption.
This is nothing against you, or anyone else who has made a thread like this, or is in this one. You are allowed to not like the job, you can even compare it to other versions you feel worked better; Main, Side, or MMO versions. But when anyone thinks of Summoner, all they really think about is the summons, which we have; not well not saying at all we have a decent number/amount to be used, but we have summons. -
04-13-2018, 01:16 AMExodus-E
Yet another player claiming that it can "fix" what isn't broken (from a mechanical standpoint, at the very least)...
What's the point of having Summon IV/V/VI if they fulfill the exact same role and functions as Summon I/II/III (ie. Caster/Tank/Attacker)?
Isn't that what the Egi glamour system will (supposedly) fix later on with just the base summoning skills we already have?
Also, I don't agree with your change of weaponry. Grimoires are perfectly fine main hand tools for SMN to have (given that rods and the like are already taken). -
04-13-2018, 02:01 AMDrWho2010
no... just no.
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04-13-2018, 02:58 AMSchrodingersWaffleIt's actually fairly similar to current summoner, just with a few kinks ironed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
Your basic is as follows:
Evoke as your filler
A couple of high damage long cooldown abilities to boost your damage.
Command as your Aethflow spender.
Pet combos and abilities as your off GCD abilities.
You spend Aetherflow to get Trance, you Trance until you get Elder Primals, summon Elder Primals, rinse-repeat. The change here is that Trance doesn't lock you out of Aetherflow and Elder Primals don't lock you out of Trance or your Pet, so there's wiggle room in order to line up all your stuff.
That's the biggest problem I'm seeing so far is button bloat. Trying to cut it down. In my defense I've been working on this since before Heavensward launched.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aivi_lo
The point of Summon IV, V and VI is the Twin Summon ability at lvl 60.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exodus-E
Also I bloody hate Grimoires. It'd be fine if there were more/flashier Egi-Glamours. But there aren't. So we're stuck with the least impressive weapon type in the game.
If you don't have anything useful to add, why are you posting?Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWho2010
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04-13-2018, 03:19 AMSinh119
I appreciate the effort that has gone into this post, but I honestly don't take issue with the current iteration of Summoner. The aesthetics for pets could be improved, but in terms of my enjoyment of the class it's in a pretty solid place. That said, I wouldn't attempt to make Summoner more pet focused without significantly improving the current AI, because pets in this game are ostensibly little more than DOT's, and DOT's that are less effective than regular ones at that. I can not imagine the nightmare that AI balancing would be in order to make every different pet feel responsive enough in order to be satisfying to use. I honestly just don't believe that the current pet AI is sophisticated enough for a job to be focused around it.
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04-13-2018, 07:58 AMChaoticCrimson
Yeah, I'm more or less fine with SMN as it is right now. The only things I might think to ask for would be more Egi glamours and also maybe allow the option to set each pet action to either "manual" or "auto" instead of just a simple all-or-nothing with Sic/Obey. Like, say for Ifrit-Egi if I wanted to keep the majority of his actions on "auto", but wanted to keep Radiant Shield on "manual" so I could deploy it for specific mechanics, like the Demonic Howl in O6S. Better still would be to add a priority system on auto-actions too so you can somewhat customize the AI to your liking (and make a semi-auto option viable), but one thing at a time I suppose. Probably more than we can hope for at this point, but I can dream...
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04-13-2018, 03:15 PMartlessknave
I liked the idea of a DOT heavy pet commander, with some basic healing, tactician. thats why I picked arcanist to start with. they removed like 3 DOTS, so now its a blm. except 1/2 its damage AND utility is tied to the 60 sec cooldown aetherflow, with like 6 abilities being chained to that cooldown, and useless without it. so if you misclick, poof, thats it, you pretty much sit there doing nothing.
you cant heal (heals like .001% of health for 30% mp)
you can barely dps without dreadworm...but you spend 80% of dreadworm time waiting for GCD
you get one pet choice
you have to spread dots for AOE...but you cant do that more than every 60 secs
I dont think a rebuild is needed. I think even something as simple as making it so you can have aetherflow and aethertrail stacks concurrently, like before, would help alot.
jack of no trades, master of swearing-cuz-you-forgot-you-already-had-2-aethertrail-and-wasted-aetherflow-cooldown and now cant really do anything -
04-13-2018, 06:23 PMSunako
I think main problem is long recast time and queue system from the pet. If they would nerf potency and reduce recast time, pet would work more smoothly. Using contagion feels clunky because you have to wait 3 sec after wind blade. Halve potency and halve recast time would probably fix that issue.
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04-14-2018, 05:55 AMSchrodingersWaffleHonestly, if the cast times on Pets are what's causing the clunkiness, then they need to get rid of the cast times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunako
But I don't think that's the only issue. I've noticed a significant portion of the time that Demi-Bahamut won't use Akh Morn if I use Enkindle Bahamut at 3s or less remaining on the Bahamut timer or if I'm moving, and both Bahamut and Ifirit/Garuda/Titan won't cast while moving, even if they're technically in range to do so, so I think it's more of "Pet AI is shit and needs to be reworked." -
04-14-2018, 12:09 PMWayfinder3Inovke pheonix
That skill can't be on a dps, or in this game, raising 3 people at once is absolutely nuts, there is a reason why lb3 heal has to be earned.
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04-14-2018, 03:12 PMSchrodingersWaffleEDIT: That's my bad, I wrote my intentions on that poorly. Was supposed to be a target and up to two other targets within 5y.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayfinder3
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04-14-2018, 07:56 PMGrimoire-M
I personally would rather see SMN reworked into its own job if people insist on it being a pet class so much. Imo the HW iteration of the class was the best it has ever been, and Bahamut should have been an extension of DWT rather than what SE forced it to be in Stormblood. Still, I gave this a lengthy read, so here's my breakdown:
Overall Thoughts:- You're adding a lot of abilities at each level. I get that some are pet abilities or are long restrictive cooldowns but you still need to rein it in.
- There's a lot of TP/MP regeneration/healing that is frankly unnecessary and can be done way better in other ways.
- Big Cooldowns Are Big. Dealing comically low personal/filler damage to make up for this does not make the sheer spike damage better in any way. The numbers need rethinking, plain and simple.
- Where are the AoE reductions? Good rule of thumb: if it’s over 200 potency and hits more than one target, reduce its damage by 10-20% per additional target to a minimum of 40-50%. It’s a standard now.
- Don’t get why so many cooldowns have cast times. They’re not spells, and they just make this class clunky for no good reason. I guess it’s a balancing factor but it’s a terrible one.
- You're making some big assumptions regarding what it would take to make this class work. The amount of double weaving you expect makes it clear this class is broken in some fundamental ways. Engine limitations literally prevent this from working without fundamentally ripping the game apart and rebuilding it from the ground up. I have to set this point aside just to begin analyzing the rest of the class at all.
Regarding Summons:- It's a good thing that you split it into AoE, Single Target, Tank pets.
- I do not get why you're making pets use their old auto-cast abilities and expecting them to know what combos and priorities are. This is what Evoke should do. Re-balance their damage accordingly. If you want to make full use of the old Ruin line, make it proc each of these abilities. That would actually be somewhat interesting, albeit a repeat what melee classes do.
- The Summon spells really should be instant oGCD abilities that retain their MP cost given what you're doing with them.
- Ifrit gives Black Mages a seriously broken buff that you really need to address by making it increase its own damage instead of the enemy.
- Lighting Armor/Windfall need to go. This game does not handle evasion well. Change these effects to something else. I don’t really agree with keeping Radiant Shield/Whorl Shield staying either. Nor is Earthen Ward/Frost Armor good. Recommend removing all of these entirely since I assume they’re all on the same button. Or add phys/magic vul up in AoE/Single Target variants and phys/magic mitigation for the tank pets. Way simpler.
- Add damage reduction to the tank pets. Glacier Bash/Landslide would be perfect for this. Make them lean into magic/physical damage more respectively so there’s something to actually distinguish them. As is they’re pointless.
Regarding Player Abilities/Traits:- Evoke: Hilariously weak, but the fact it makes your pet auto with you is good. This I approve of, almost. Glad it's instant because there is a LOT of weaving on this class. Main problem with this ability is you're spamming it all the time with little to no variation beyond the pets themselves.
- Purify: I guess an extra pet cure and more MP for them is nice, considering they're the real aggro generators here. That's...on a 30s CD? Why???
- Command: This is your Fester/Painflare stand in. Fair enough. It’s also paradoxically on a 10s cooldown again, as are many of your aetherflow abilities. You do realize that because of the lower cooldown on Purify you’ve just made the class even harder for no real reason, right?
- Trance: Okay...so these are just stances. Would be nice if Ramuh/Levi swapped these around so you had a choice of what to use and didn't double up on the same one during Twin Summon. Don't tie this to the summon spells either. That's just a massive waste of MP. Just make it a passive ability that grants bonuses based on what pets are out. Or remove it. It’s kind of a do-nothing tbh.
- Painflare: I do not see the point in having this when you could just lower the cooldown on Command and remove all the DoT components on the Commands pets use. Personal Potency trumps pet potency in most cases so this just becomes the go-to ability compared to every Command you use as-is. If it's just for weaving to get rolling then Enkindle covers that.
- Invigorate/Infuse: Okay so these are DoT stand-ins, lacks the complexity that DoTs normally had in theory, and is somehow clunkier in practice if you had to target your pet, but okay. I can't tell if Infuse is actually useless or good. It's so contingent on how the engine performs that I'm inclined to say it's horrible in its current state. Also please make them do some personal damage and apply to all non-elder summons out. It makes way more sense than doing literally nothing for a GCD.
- Enkindle: This is the Energy Drain replacement that we really didn't need. I guess it's cool that it lets you charge up your pets stats but it's not worth an Aetherflow stack outside of pre-pull or death.
- Unleash: Current day Enkindle on a lower cooldown, because we needed more of those. I’d approve of this change in the current kit over the proc we got tbh.
- Aether Shift: I kinda approve of this in theory, but it basically breaks the entire class in half. Refresh Rouse/Spur/Infuse/Invigorate AND maintain Enkindle stacks AND I can swap my Egi? This is a lot of hidden power you're putting into this ability.
- Primal Trance: DWT but for pets. Would be fine if Animate wasn't reset in your current setup. I'd complain about the short duration but that might be one of the few balancing factors. Really not good imo.
- Invoke: Deathflare with flavor.
- Rebind: Good idea in theory, practically useless in combat until you have Astral Flow. Gets you up fast I suppose. Glad you put in the fixed version of Aether Shift in though.
- Rouse/Spur: Honestly these would be fine if they couldn't be spread around/refreshed. You need to add clauses saying so if that’s your intent. Badly.
- Animate: I get that this is essentially Tri-disaster but god why. The clipping you cause would be really horrible if not for Aether Shift letting you completely ignore that entirely.
- Astral Flow: Had to look at each pet ability but just looking at the numbers tells me this is way too high. Tank pets do not need a 20% party damage reduction ability either with Aether Barrier existing. Make that effect self only, if anything. The only nice thing is the immediate sacrifice makes aggro concerns trivial and its cooldown makes it almost fair, but I’d honestly rather the numbers were lowered on both, moreso on the damage side of it.
- Aether Overdrive: Weird combination of what I assume is meant to be Mana Shift/Old Devotion/Blood for Blood that also is supposed to be Trick Attack...but also it kills your raid? This ability makes no sense. I get what it's trying to do but it's bad and/or broken. Specify Ally/Enemy/Pet and split up the effects.
- Aether Barrier: This is less offensive than Invoke Phoenix, but not even the support classes have direct ally healing abilities, and RDM only has it for flavor. HoT is not necessary at all. Damage reduction would suffice and its cooldown could be lowered in that case. Devotion honestly does this fine already. Make it an instant ability because it will literally never see use outside of invul phases otherwise.
- Akh Morn: Okay…I guess we’re bahamut now? Just straight up? This honestly feels incredibly out of place. If I hadn’t seen there were more of these later on I would expect it to be tied to Bahamut himself, but…it’s not.
- Invoke Phoenix: Get the idea, but it does not fit this game at all. Even with RDM existing this is too much. Even with the small AoE it's too much. You do not add an AoE res willy nilly when the game isn't balanced around it, however conditional it is.
- Twin Summon: Another nice concept that also breaks like half of the pet abilities in your kit. I get that you use this to justify Summon IV/V/VI but why have it at all? It baffles me that you'd add another Aether Shift that lets you sustain all of those buffs even longer. I'll be gracious and assume you can't Astral Flow/Aether Shift this pet too, cause seriously you can almost keep those buffs up 100% of the time with this if you could.
- Energize: Why is this a thing? It's only going to be useful on tanks 90% of the time and in the cases a healer or DPS needs it you're probably going to get them killed. If you're pre-planning around raid damage to make this useful for healers then you probably don't need it in the first place considering SMN can sustain mana shift on cooldown as-is.
- Megaflare/Zantetsuken/Divine Judgement: These should not be available until the Elder primals are. I’m assuming Akh Morn is an exception, because these are simply ridiculous if they’re meant to be base abilities. Most likely this has to do with that trait, Elder Primal Aether, right?
- Master and Servant: Finally a reason to care about spell speed.
Regarding Elder Summons:- This is just excessive at this point. Bahamut is hilariously redundant due to the numbers too.
- Getting these guys rolling even faster is not the way to balance this class.
Regarding Egi-Glamour models:- Yes.
- You're adding a lot of abilities at each level. I get that some are pet abilities or are long restrictive cooldowns but you still need to rein it in.
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04-14-2018, 08:11 PMSchrodingersWaffleThis is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. Like I said, I'm not a mathematician or a theorycrafter so this kind of feedback is pretty much exactly what I was looking for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimoire-M
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04-15-2018, 12:51 PMGrimoire-MSorry if it came off overly sassy. I overthink things at 4-8am. It was fun to really dig into though. Hope it points you in the right direction!Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersWaffle
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04-15-2018, 01:10 PMSchrodingersWaffleHaha it's fine. I'm glad you thought it was fun to dig into, I thought it was fun to make. I'm already working on a revision based on the feedback I'm getting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimoire-M
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04-15-2018, 11:28 PMKaimishi
Hi. I would love indeed to summon more primals. If I understand correctly you proposal to remove the dots and instead focus on pet dance. Now I've trouble visualizing what the flow would be. At the current state, the smn have a 197 sec cycle and uses AF stacks mainly fester to proc ww. The job is kind of busy and I've a hard time imaging where and when those pet swap would happen. Can you give us an insight of the rotation and possible flow of the job and how it would sync with raid buffs? Thanks.
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04-16-2018, 05:22 AMSchrodingersWaffleExcellent question. Right so, the idea is that it actually plays like a hybridization of current SMN and 3.X SMN, with DoT management replaced with Buff management. First off, I have Aetherflow on a 30s CD. So you have Command, which is your Aetherflow spender. This is what builds your initial stacks. However, like in Heavensward, these stacks and PrimalTrance don't lock you out of Aetherflow. Nor does Summoning one of the Elder Primals lock you out of Primal Trance, which is just a renamed and slightly retooled DWT. However, like in Stormblood, these stacks don't have a duration. The key difference here is that you're going to have a second GCD to keep track of with Pet abilities. So you are essentially double weaving your Pet's rotation during your own rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaimishi
So Evoke is your filler spell in case that wasn't blindingly obvious.
With a patient tank using Enkindle pre-pull you can start a fight with 3 Aetherflow, 3 Aethertrails, and a full Trance gauge.
So let's assume, hypothetically speaking that you have a NIN and DRG immediately pop Trick Attack and Battle Litany on the pull. Now since this is single target you're going to be using Ifirit.
So pre-pull you're going to Primal Trance, Summon Odin, Spur , Rouse and Twin Summon which gets both of your states going at the same time, and then Animate, which gets your pet buffs up immediately.
On the pull you're going to start with Ifrit's Flaming Crash combo which get's the debuff going, and gets Ifirit into range of the boss. At this point Trick Attack and Battle Litany should have gone out.
You have 10s of Vulnerability Up and 15s of Crit Up. With the 2.5s GCD on Ifirit you should be able to get an entire combo in before it falls off. During this time you're obviously going to be using Command on CD. While that's happening you're going, in no particular order, Command Elder Primal, Zantetsuken, Akh-Morn and Unleash. So long as these all happen before Trick Attack falls off, you should be fine. You should then Invoke with about 2s left on Trick Attack. Now you should have 1 Stack of Aetherflow, 2 Aethertrails, no Trance, about 3-5s left on Odin, Rouse and Spur, about 30s left on Twin Summon and Aetherflow off CD.
After this point you're entering regular territory. You use Command and then Aetherflow so you're at 3 Aethertrails and 3 Aetherflow. Now you use Primal Trance again., putting you at 0 Aethertrails, 3 Aetherflow and 1 Trance Gauge as soon as it ends.
So TL;DR, it should flow very similar to HW SMN, where you're trying to chain DWTs, with the addition of the Elder Primal stage.
Evoke as filler.
Command as Aetherflow Spender
Pet abilites on a seperate GCD.
Most of your abilities CDs should line up pretty nicely with both Trick Attack and Battle Litany. -
04-16-2018, 08:15 AMFeliAiko
Once again another "this is what SMN should be like" post, where the poster views unnecessary button bloat and making the SMN be able to do damn near everything makes for a good MMO Job.
So please explain to us how a Job with the following:
- Increased damage and crit up (Invigorate)
- Haste (Infuse)
- Up to 30% Main stat boost (Enkindle)
- 2 damage steroids (Primal Trance, Rouse)
- Trick Attack, Refresh and Tactician... all on the same button (Aether Overdrive)
- Shield that gives full MP/TP restore when damaged (Energize)
- Ability to raise 3 people at once (Phoenix)
- Free 1000 potency HoT
- Highest damaging base potency skill in the game (Zantetsuken)
- Etc.
Would fit right in XIV, as opposed to outright breaking the game? I mean, that's just from what I glanced through. I even caught a part where the SMN even gets a 6s Immunity or something? Like, what reason would a DPS of all things need a Hallowed Ground for? I mean, having 2 Tank pets isn't enough? That you can have out at the same time? The Caster itself has to get a Tank CD too?
Even worse is how you say that this concept of yours would flow like 3.x SMN... except I don't recall 3.x SMN design being this jack-of-all-trades, master of everything Job you've envisioned here. -
04-16-2018, 11:44 AMSchrodingersWaffleDo you actually have anything constructive to say?Quote:
Originally Posted by FeliAiko
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04-16-2018, 02:23 PMJukebox12I find this comment laughableQuote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersWaffle
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04-16-2018, 05:40 PMFeliAikoSo you're unable to explain how a Job with potentially 100% uptime Balance, Arrow and Spear simultaneously (along with a 'Tri-Disaster' version), 2.x WAR's Berserk (without the Pacification), AND its own Trick Attack would not make this game a Joke then?Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersWaffle
Your SMN is a Mary Sue SMN, with no original ideas to boot. It just looks at what other Jobs have and cherry picks them for itself. If it's not doing that, it badly re-skins the existing tools that XIV SMN has but throws in silly damage numbers, or meaningless flair like 'elemental damage' when no elemental wheel exists in meaningful content. The latter wouldn't even work in Eureka because the Magia Wheel is what impacts "elemental damage" there. -
04-16-2018, 06:31 PMKaimishiI didn't even look at potency since it's not really what matters here. What matters is the flow and the design. Which is summoning pets to buff dance and that looks fun. It also is completely new to ff14 - no, bard is not even close . if you take out the dots damage you way wanna need a compensation elsewhere (-20% dmg) , I assume that's the reason for all these potencies. Besides, all the smn I've met preferred it in 2.x. So, I understand you've an idea of the flow. Maybe that would be nice to calculate the expected potency on like 3 min without raid buff.Quote:
Originally Posted by FeliAiko
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04-16-2018, 08:20 PMFeliAikoNothing here is new. It's either already present (i.e. stolen) on other Jobs or just ridiculous attempts to make sure the Job covers every element of the game. It has every source of damage steroid, a tank immunity, can raise more people at once than 2 healers combined... AND it has CDs that can sync with the meta Job's raid buffs? Wow, it gets to be like SAM in terms of damage AND like NIN/DRG in terms of raid utility? Totally not a broken design concept in light of how SE sets up Jobs in this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaimishi
Well, you start by not reducing the Caster damage GCD suite to just a Ruin II at 50 potency, and instead spread that damage out across the existing kit OP claims to be retaining the flow/design of (because removing Ruin III, Ruin IV and Tri-bind and nerfing Ruin II to even below 2.x damage is certainly preserving the Job design). Instead they went for the cheap, lazy solution that all bad Job ideas resort to: throwing in nonsensical damage buffs and utility at itQuote:
if you take out the dots damage you way wanna need a compensation elsewhere (-20% dmg)
I doubt the OP his/herself can explain their reasoning behind the potency values. They were quick to preface the thread with 'I'm not a theorycrafter blah blah'.Quote:
I assume that's the reason for all these potencies.
That's on the OP to dig into. However, they did say that they're not a mathematician so I wouldn't count on them doing so.Quote:
Maybe that would be nice to calculate the expected potency on like 3 min without raid buff.
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04-16-2018, 11:13 PMKaimishiI agree to all that. the buffs proposed are not new, however buff dance has never been in ff14 before. Even tho the buffs as they\\'re are, are completely broken, I still like the idea of having a summon rotation, with some buffs or not. I kind of push those potency questions to help op to realize it\\'s hard to come with a balanced concept without numbers. I understand OP wants to get thoughts about something she/he worked on for a lot of time. No need to get that hard on him/her.Quote:
Originally Posted by FeliAiko
Even tho I like playing the job, I think it\\'s a complete mess - patchwork of whatever. Apart from Demi-bahamut, there\\'s no real summoner vibe in the job, at all. -
04-17-2018, 05:44 AMJukebox12
How will all these summons work into a rotation/opener and how many of ea summon you get in a whole fight how much is thee summoner doing for the downtime
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04-20-2018, 08:41 PMFeliAikoI imagine the idea for this convoluted Job would be something like:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukebox12
1. Summon Pet of choice based on encounter/comp (i.e. Melee or Caster-type)
2. Throw cocktail of buffs onto said Pet
3. Use Twin Summon (3min CD, 45s duration) to get second Pet with same cocktail buffs but at max duration
During this time you'd be expected to keep the GCD combos rolling on both Pets, nevermind the juggling you'd have to do with your own GCDs and oGCDs. -
04-28-2018, 04:28 PMSchrodingersWaffle
Here's version 2. Lot's of changes have been made so it'd probably behoove everyone who actually cares to read through it again.
A couple of things before I get into the meat of this next version.
Had couple people wondering about the varying elemental damage types, and how it's kinda pointless, even in Eureka. It's flavorful, and I like me lot's of flavor. Constantly dealing unaspected damage just seems so....bland. Boring, pointlessly so, especially when our three pets are the fragments of literal gods of their element type embedded in our soul and given shape by our very force of will.
Yes, I'm aware it's mediocre. Yes, I'm aware that numbers need to be adjusted, still working on that bit, but I think I got it at least in roughly decent place, if my math is right(Finding actual formulas for how to convert potency to damage at varying magic attack power levels and how to account for crit is hard), but if you see anything, please point it out. Please be aware that I do this for fun, and not profit, so let's all try to be respectful.
Ability List is HERE:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
THE BASICS:
So in this HYPOTHETICAL rebuild of Summoner, because I don't really like the idea of being purely a dargin mage or a warlock, even if the class is pretty fun to play, the class is about three things.
1. Using your pet as efficiently as possible. That means using your pet combos, paying attention to buffs happening with your pet and acting on them accordingly.
2. Chaining together Primal Trance (Renamed and slightly reworked Dreadwyrm Trance) for as long as possible.
3. Getting as many Elder Primal summons off as you can, and using them as efficiently as you can during their time frame (E.g. Using Command 2-3 times during their summon period, using as many of your pets abilities as you can while their up in order to squeeze out that extra bit of damages.
New thing from old SMN, Pet's have combos. These combos are activated by you in casting the Evoke and Convoke spells in varying orders.
Each of your base pets has one of three different classifications. Attacker Pet, Caster Pet or Tank Pet.
Attacker Type Pets are single target melee damage pets and include Ifirit and Leviathan
Caster Type Pets are rangedAoE damage pets and include Garuda and Ramuh
Tank Pets are, you guessed, it tanking and solo pets and include Titan and Shiva.
These classifications determine their combos and potency of their abilites. For simplicities sake we're going to use the Evoke and Convoke spells to show the combos!
Attacker Type Pets
Evoke I->Evoke II->Evoke III= Bread and butter damage rotation
Convoke I->Convoke II=Charge->Debuff
Caster Type Pets
Evoke I->Evoke III->Convoke I->Convoke II=Higher damage
Evoke II->Evoke III->Convoke I->Convoke II=Lower damage but Debuff application
Tank Type Pets
Evoke I->Convoke I =Single target enmity generation
Evoke II->Evoke III=Multi-target Enmity Generation
Convoke II=Provoke
Might seem a little complicated, I think people would get the hang of it fairly quickly.
RESOURCES
So, here we have one base resource that gradually gets filtered up into something more potent, very similar to how it is on live.
AETHERFLOW
Your basic resource, ability has been changed to be on a 30s CD and give 20% mana but apart from that it's functionally the same. Gives you 3 Aetherflow stacks to spend, and you can't overflow that to 4-5 so using them all before you recast Aetherflow is important. Your Aetherflow spender is Command, which has your pet do a moderate potency attack. It's an off GCD ability, like Fester is right now, so you're absolutely going to want to be using this on CD. I think another spender might be on the shortlist but that's a question for y'all.
PRIMAL AETHER
This is your Aethertrails, Same basic use, 3 of these=Primal Trance (Reflavored and slightly reworked Dreadwyrm Trance) and you're capped at 3. The biggest difference is that these stacks and using Primal Trance does not lock you out of Aetherflow. So if you have Aetherflow off CD, and your in Primal Trance you're not going to lose out by popping it right there. You end this phase with Invoke, which is a reflavored Deathflare (Unaspected damage is BOOORRING).
ELDER ATTUNEMENT
This is your Trance Gauge. It goes up to 2. You get one of these every time Primal Trance ends, so you want to actually fire off that Invoke before you reup your Primal Trance. This is what allows you to get access to The Big Boys, Odin and Bahamut. With these two Odin is the single target Elder Primal and Bahamut is the AoE Elder Primal. It's a little round about but the actual spenders for Elder Attunement are Invocation: Odin and Invocation: Bahamut., these do high damage to a single target and multiple targets respectively, and change the Summon Elder Primal button, to the Summon Odin and Summon Bahamut buttons. Again, change from live, Having Odin/Bahamut up doesn't lock you out of Primal Trance, and as an added bonus from live, with this change from the actual Summon spell being the spender, to having a spell that spends it before hand, it means you can start working towards the next Elder Primal summon while the current one is up. That seems fun right?
So here's a hypothetical opener that's totally been put together in 5sec just to show off a concept. This is single target pet and Odin.
Animate (OGCD)->Twin Summon(OGCD)->Convoke I->(0s)Command(OGCD)->Convoke II(2.5s)->Unleash(OGCD)->Evoke I->Command->Evoke II->Evoke III->Command->Aetherflow->(10s)Primal Trance(16s Duration)->Evoke I->Evoke II->Command->Evoke III->Evoke I->Command->Evoke II->Evoke III->Command->Invoke(OGCD)->Animate->Primal Trance(16s)->Convoke I->Convoke II->Evoke I->Evoke II->Evoke III->Evoke I->Invoke->Aetherflow->Invocation: Odin(OGCD)->Summon: Odin(20s)(OGCD)->Command->Evoke II->Command Elder Primal (Off GCD)->Evoke III->Command->Evoke I->Animate->Evoke II->Invoke->Command->Evoke III->Primal Trance->Convoke I->Convoke II->Unleash->Evoke I->Evoke II->Evoke III->Evoke I->Invoke->Evoke II->Aetherflow->Command->Evoke III->Evoke I->Command->Evoke II->Evoke III->Animate->Command->Primal Trance->Convoke I->Convoke II->Evoke I->Evoke II->Evoke III->Evoke I->Invoke->Invocation: Odin->Evoke II->Summon Odin->Aetherflow->Command->Evoke III->Command Elder Primal->Evoke I->Command->Evoke II->Evoke III->Animate->Command->Primal Trance
I guess the opener would probably end the same time the first Elder Primal Phase did, technically? Like I said, it's just a super rough thing to just show how things would flow.
Right! Change log!
GENERAL
Potency adjustements, potency adjustments everywhere! The numbers probably aren't quite right yet, but they're getting there.
REMOVED
-Infuse+Enliven
(This seemed really superfluous in the wake of Animate being reset by Primal Trance, I just put those two spells onto animate, and focused the class more on maintaining as high up-time on Primal Trance as you can)
-Painflare
(Superfluous because of the restructuring of the pets)
-Enkindle
(Seemed a little bit unnecessary, and let SMN hypothetically start a fight with full resources, which seemed a broken, might throw this back in if people think it should go in)
-Rouse+Spur
(After running some numbers these seemed overkill, especially the two of them together. Again, might throw these back in if people think the should go in, but I doubt it)
-Aether Overdrive
(A clunky mess of an ability that did so many things it was kinda ridiculous, my original intention was a high-risk-high reward ability single target buff but everyone believes that it doesn't work, and after looking at it again, I'm inclined to agree.)
-Akh Morn
(Doesn't make flavor sense, which was a big point of this, and Invoke already fills the slot that Deathflare filled)
-Invoke Phoenix
(This was in here for flavor reasons, and the version that was posted was not the version that I wanted to post, which was the up to two other players within 3y of the primary target, but after further consideration, even that's too much so I removed it)
-Energize
(Another button, another thing into the garbage. Someone brought up the point of so many MP/TP restoring buffs, and the whole idea behind that was to not lock you into choosing one specific class to have to cast it on. Removed after further consideration.)
-Divine Judgement
(Again, like Akh-Morn didn't make Flavor sense, and these three spells together just allowed an absurd amount of damage going out in a single spike)
-Summon Alexander
(Alexander and Bahamut occupied a similar slot in the class, and only one could stay, so I chose the one that was originally in the kit)
REMOVED PET ABILITIES
The Pet Shields [Radiant Shield, Windwall, etc]
(Extra buttons that didn't really do anything significant. Their old functionality as one of SMNs few raid buffs has been overwritten, so they were just really taking up space. Adding in that Windwall and Lightning Armor didn't really play well with the mechanics of the game, made it seem like a good time to go)
Pet Specific Evoke
(These have been removed and worked into the new Trance ability)
Pet DoTs and elemental damage increases
(These have been reworked into a small physical and magic vulnerability up debuffs
CHANGED ABILITIES
Evoke+Pet Combo Abilites
(The pet abilities are staying, however they're no longer something you put on your bar, as the amount of double-weaving required for this class would have simply been unfeasible, instead these and Evoke have been reworked into Evoke I, Evoke II and Evoke III, as well as new spells Convoke I and Convoke II)
Animate
(As stated above, the funcationality of Infuse and Enliven has been merged into Animate)
Megaflare and Zantetsuken
(These have been changed to Invocation: Bahamut and Invocation: Odin respectively, had their potencies reduced, and now require 2 Trance to activate. These in turn activate Summon Elder Primal, to either Odin or Bahamut, depending on which Invocation was used.)
Summon Elder Primal
(Actual ability hasn't really changed, but activating it requires having used either Invocation: Bahamut or Invocation: Odin)
Trance
(This ability has been changed to a passive trait that, in addition to changing the function, potency and damage type of the evoke spells, also gives a passive aura to the raid, still working on the numbers for that one, so feedback is always nice)
ADDED ABILITIES
Embrace of the Triad
(Had to have some kind of lvl 70 Capstone ability and since Bahamut being only at 70 is SUPER LAME, here's a recovery ability that kinda mitigates summoners super harsh floor tanking penalties, probably a bit OP, lemme know)