Eureka's mind boggling grind

I am not sure what Yoshi-P or Square understands about the term "grind" but congratulations, you hit the nail on the head with Eureka!

With a previous live letter I thought Yoshi acknowledged that previous versions of Atma, or Anima were a tedious grind, and that they received said player feedback and would prevent further steps in the Eureka weapon saga to be "to grindy".

Now why do I find myself mindlessly grinding creatures in a full party with a meager 100 exp reward hoping for a crystal? Oh wait, its not that bad, there are also boss fates with what seems a 1 hour spawn timer.

It wouldn't be so bad if you could grind creatures of your own level by yourself or in party, but 1-7 exp? Come on!

The lack of quests aside from the main story is just mind baffling, this isn't just an improved diadem, its like you took the worst aspects of diadem and then made Eureka with some RNG loot drops to have that carrot on a stick there!

Please add more fates or any kind of activity that is rewarding in terms of exp and crystals!

This was my biggest concern is that it is a grind and forced party play.... I loved grinding relics but I was skeptical Eureka would be Diadem 1.5.

I feel like Eureka was created for bots and not players.

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Originally Posted by Abanamat

I feel like Eureka was created for bots and not players.

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It's basically "FFXIV: Bot simulator 2018"

1 tank, 1 healer, 6 ranged. Find mob a few levels above your group, burn until you level, move to mob 1 lvl up, rinse and repeat, for hours.

Oh and pray an NM spawns. That's the only time you actually need to move your character.

They said eurika would be a grind and it is. What else were u expecting?

"what else was I expecting?" ....hmmmm... Complete English language in both the reddit and official forums for starters. Cuz ... I've searched and searched (even w/ google) but can't find a translation for "NM"

Anyone know what "NM" stands for?

Also, I was going into this blind without any info beforehand. It's a cool map and kinda fun, but the only hold-back I have now - close to 4 levels into it is - the level grind. Wasn't quite expecting that. Lol. Maybe, I'm going about it wrong? Perhaps there's a trick to it? Or a better way? :p

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Originally Posted by Kyonika

Anyone know what "NM" stands for?

Also, I was going into this blind without any info beforehand. It's a cool map and kinda fun, but the only hold-back I have now - close to 4 levels into it is - the level grind. Wasn't quite expecting that. Lol. Maybe, I'm going about it wrong? Perhaps there's a trick to it? Or a better way? :p

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NM is notorious monster, I think. Basically boss mob type things. They give really good rewards in Eureka.

As for levels... form up a full party and fight stuff 3 or more levels higher than you are. It's still a grind (that's the point I think), but far more efficient. Don't attack mobs other parties are attacking, it really cripples your exp income.

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Originally Posted by Kyonika

"what else was I expecting?" ....hmmmm... Complete English language in both the reddit and official forums for starters. Cuz ... I've searched and searched (even w/ google) but can't find a translation for "NM"

Anyone know what "NM" stands for?

Also, I was going into this blind without any info beforehand. It's a cool map and kinda fun, but the only hold-back I have now - close to 4 levels into it is - the level grind. Wasn't quite expecting that. Lol. Maybe, I'm going about it wrong? Perhaps there's a trick to it? Or a better way? :p

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NM stands for Notorious Monster, it was a term for heavy hitting rare spawn mobs that gave better than the average loot in FFXI.

Think Hunts/Fate bosses sort of mob.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

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Originally Posted by Shouko

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OIC... Thank you :)

It feels like FFXI all over again.

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Originally Posted by Jonnykit

It feels like FFXI all over again.

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Hahahaha it is kind of ironic especially with how many people say they miss FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Jonnykit

It feels like FFXI all over again.

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No. No it really doesn't feel anything like ffxi.
Did you even play it?

Started this morning and played a couple of hours or so. I am L-4 now and did the first quest available at 3 by getting lucky when my group happened to need it also. I have played several MMOs in my day but this was the most obvious and tiresome bot grind 101 I have ever encountered. After you make your way to where you want to kill by dodging numerous mobs in your path, you basically become a bot and as a ranged, I barely moved the whole time. Also, don't die because if you don't get rezzed you have to run alllllllll the way back through allllll those mobs alone hehe. Luckily, I only died 1x when I first started, now I know where not to stand. I hit L 4 and had 44 proteon crystals and nothing else to show for my effort. Hope it gets better, not impressed. I was hoping to be able to get decent xp solo with my choco (no chocos allowed) and have some non-constant killing fun but that ain't gonna happen :)

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Originally Posted by Dzian

No. No it really doesn't feel anything like ffxi.
Did you even play it?

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I mean it absolutely does feel like FFXI. It's basically Abyssea with a general kill chain instead of a monster-specific chain.

I hate to point this out but XI was full of really outdated design decisions by today's standards and a lot of pointless grinding. Eureka is exactly that.

Honestly, I really wanted to like this but the EXP returns for killing mobs is way WAY too low - the chance for Protean Crystals is too low. I dunno if there's a way to implement this kind of content into XIV properly, but honestly making it take FOREVER is not the way to do it. Especially when the relic gear has lower item levels than the current gear.

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Originally Posted by ColorOfSakura

I mean it absolutely does feel like FFXI. It's basically Abyssea with a general kill chain instead of a monster-specific chain.

I hate to point this out but XI was full of really outdated design decisions by todays standards and a lot of pointless grinding. Eureka is exactly that.

Honestly, I really wanted to like this but the EXP returns for killing mobs is way WAY too low - the chance for Protean Crystals is too low. I dunno if there's a way to implement this kind of content into XIV properly, but honestly making it take FOREVER is not the way to do it. Especially when the relic gear has lower item levels than the current gear.

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Ah can't speak for abbyssea played xi for almost 10 years but quit when they announced abbyssea and the level cap increase..

I wouldn't have even minded if it was just to 80. Maybe Even 85.. i think it would have got a lot less backlash.

But when they planned to go from 75 to 99 in less than 12 months..(Think it actually took a slightly over 12 months because of delays) it's just to much too quick thus over half the playerbase quit very quickly.

In my experience though every grind in xi had purpose structure and progression. Even the massive endgame grind of dynamis. That was basically hours of killing mobs slowly working through the zone dropping bosses getting time extensions... it was a massive grind but structured..

Now admittedly my time in eureka thus far is a bit to short to be conclusive but it's been mostly brainless watch Netflix mash buttons so far. Yet to see any structure

I think what makes it worse is that there's an independent leveling system where any L70 tank can't do, but a L9 tank because XP varies. This feels broken for endgame, forcing players to be further divided over something that's not received very well.

I'm extremely concerned about the future of Final Fantasy XIV if this was the big project that took half a year of research and work.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

No. No it really doesn't feel anything like ffxi.
Did you even play it?

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Yes I did play it thank you very f*%king much. Don't assume how you felt about FFXI is the same I did about it. So far its either a really f*%king long solo exp grind or get a party together and camping a monster spawn location. First thing that came to my mind after starting this was "OMG, its the Dunes all over again!" Only the Dunes never had more than 50 players in it at a time (at least whenever I was leveling there) to do a player search for those seeking party. Its pretty much a mad house right now til the player base comes up with strategies to max out Exp gains per hour like in FFXI.

Eureka needs a duty finder.

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Originally Posted by Blanchimont

Eureka needs a duty finder.

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This!!! Loading times in Kugane are atrocious

They had emergency maintenance for kugane late last night, probably had something to do with load times, being able to enter eureka anywhere after you unlock it the first time would do wonders for kugane imo

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Originally Posted by Mithia

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It wouldn't be so bad if you could grind creatures of your own level by yourself or in party, but 1-7 exp? Come on!

Please add more fates or any kind of activity that is rewarding in terms of exp and crystals!

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You can get OK exp solo (about 25-30 per kill as a base at level 3-4), you just need to fight things of at least the same level (tip: same level or higher is needed for chain bonus), and don't bother killing other people targets, you get far less XP than if you fully kill something yourself. Also, simply being in a party reduces your XP per kill (even if you kill something solo), so if you're in a party, you need to work as a party (and again, kill your own parties targets, not other peoples).

That said, I definitely agree, there needs to be far more kinds of (rewarding) activities in Eureka than just the occasional NM. Base XP for mobs should probably go up as well, or at least have a 'rested' bonus of some kind.

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Originally Posted by Acidblood

You can get OK exp solo

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No. It's not good XP. Even at #30, it's ~300xp/kill at 12, for example. Out of 79k.That's 260+ kills, and assuming you kill 1/minute, that's 4+ hours. Even with NMs it's ultimately a negligible amount of XP. Considering effort vs reward, it's better to just AFK and wait for NM pops.

So, small update.

After hitting 20 and looking back upon things, I must say that I really enjoyed myself.

While i wont go back on the part where the grind in itself is mind boggling, it doesn't mean that it isn't rewarding nor did I have the feeling of, damn now I'm really bored.

I have no relation to FFXI or any other FF game out there so it isn't nostalgia either mind...

And I think the fun attributes to two factors:

1. The social aspect, sooner or later you will have to team up, be it for the Notorious Monsters, the famous fate train, or grinding out a few levels while spawning said Notorious Monsters... And last but not least, you will need your (will avoid spoilers) items for your weapon.

And there are many ways to go about this, the way I did it was sit on Discord with my static and laugh our way through the grind.
The entire discovery of Eureka became fun post 6 I would say, and the thrill while you and your teammates go though dangerous areas together really gave us a couple of adventures that are very memorable.

And it doesn't matter if you are 15+ while your pal is only 5, you just board the fate train and that in itself can be an adventure with plenty of laughs! What I currently do now though in case of such extreme level differences, is have the friend board the fate train while grinding out some high level notorious monsters solo or with another high level pal to speed things up for the fate train, and thus more exp for the friend, because hey - at a certain point you just feel like a God in Eureka.

2. The rewards, there are some problems here and there but these are really QoL things, and then I am thinking of the absurd amount of boxes you get with so much miscellaneous vendor thrash, better get some bag space available... Or the converting of Anemos Crystals to Protean Crystals... I mean ok, I like the fact that there is a certain RNG aspect to how many you can receive but do I really have to click 1000+ times? Please make some changes to this SE...

I do like the fact that before I got to 20 I had my full set + weapon upgraded to max with plenty of crystals to spare for where I could buy a second set, this makes it also much more bearable then previous weapon saga's... I mean in retrospect, I could also have 4 or more different weapons for my alt jobs at this point after 4 days.

The feeling of accomplishment while reaching a level, it may sound weird but yes, I did feel accomplished after every level since I was usually one of those who was grinding in dangerous area's and spawning the high level fate - coming out of that in one piece and a massive exp boost after the Notorious Monster was downed felt very good. It wasn't just the spawning of the NM, but also the entire sense of discovery and reaching a new part of the map that felt very rewarding through exp and excitement!


tldr; - be social, don't just stay in the fate train, and explore! And it will make the grind not only bearable but also rewarding!

I am L-13 atm and 2 things would make Eureka bearable: the option to use my chocobo in solo play and a "port to party" option. I also extremely dislike losing all the ele xp after 11 upon death and no rez. Due to these things, once I get my main done, I won't set foot in there again until an update. Re: be social, don't stay in the fate train and explore? No thanks, losing hard earned levels to death from exploring alone is not what I call fun.

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Originally Posted by Mithia

1. The social aspect, sooner or later you will have to team up, be it for the Notorious Monsters, the famous fate train, or grinding out a few levels while spawning said Notorious Monsters... And last but not least, you will need your (will avoid spoilers) items for your weapon.

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I don't see the social aspect of this. In the beginning, you could find a group that farms mobs to spawn NMs and you'd be doing stuff. Now it's all just the train. Literally every group instance I've been in in the past several days has only had lvl 15+ mob grind because the higher levels burned through the lower level fates in 5 seconds. So, unless you're 15+, you're just standing around, trying not to die. It's not fun. It was okay in the first day -- the grind was there but you would at least do SOMETHING. Now it's just mindless boredom and the bad feeling of leeching off people.

But wait! Make your own party, you say. I have and there are no takers. Simply put, the train is the best way to get exp and the place is already mind boggling terrible in the first place. I can't really blame them. So my choices are solo or follow the train. YAY. Gotta love that "social" aspect.

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Originally Posted by Besame

I am L-13 atm and 2 things would make Eureka bearable: the option to use my chocobo in solo play and a "port to party" option. I also extremely dislike losing all the ele xp after 11 upon death and no rez. Due to these things, once I get my main done, I won't set foot in there again until an update. Re: be social, don't stay in the fate train and explore? No thanks, losing hard earned levels to death from exploring alone is not what I call fun.

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You can party up with other people through Party Finder.
Its not the losing of levels that is fun, its the risk of it that makes it fun.

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Originally Posted by Alisi

But wait! Make your own party, you say. I have and there are no takers. Simply put, the train is the best way to get exp and the place is already mind boggling terrible in the first place. I can't really blame them. So my choices are solo or follow the train. YAY. Gotta love that "social" aspect.

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I never said make your "own" party, there are plenty of parties in PF that are looking for people, and if you do just try to look for a party in Eureka, then you can always instance hop if you don't find a group, there are plenty of instances open.

It has nothing to do with getting a party, I never said that. I said a PORT2PARTY option would be faster and nice. When I get a party, they are all over the place or way up in BF L-16 to 20. Hard to get to and have died trying.

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Originally Posted by Mithia

I never said make your "own" party, there are plenty of parties in PF that are looking for people, and if you do just try to look for a party in Eureka, then you can always instance hop if you don't find a group, there are plenty of instances open.

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I didn't mean that you said that. The you was general. I meant to preemptively answer the first suggestion anyone would reasonably give. I have tried PF. I have gone into other instances. Going to other instances doesn't change the core problem with this: there's really only one way to do Eureka and that's with the fate train. So you get a bunch of people who spend 24 straight hours to get to lvl 20 and they steam role through the lower level content in minutes and all that's left in every instance I've tried is all the 12+ fates. That basically boils my entire Eureka experience down to trying not to die while going to the high level areas, revving people, and long periods of just sitting around. Fun.

I'm not blaming the higher level people for plowing through the low level fates nor am I blaming the fates themselves. I'm just saying that Eureka was designed very poorly in this regard. Fates are the best way to get EXP and crystals/lockboxes. It simply makes it so they effectively take away any other way of going about Eureka.

I like when people complain about having to work for something. Don't want to work for it? don't get it. Simple. It's about time they add more content that isn't just handed to you after a day or two.

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Originally Posted by crc0427

I like when people complain about having to work for something. Don't want to work for it? don't get it. Simple. It's about time they add more content that isn't just handed to you after a day or two.

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The truth hurts for most people here. Now a days people want a nice trophy for just trying. God forbid it becomes old content and people forget that difficulty of fates is based on total people in instance -.-/

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

The truth hurts for most people here. Now a days people want a nice trophy for just trying. God forbid it becomes old content and people forget that difficulty of fates is based on total people in instance -.-/

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I personally love it in Eureka. It's a mix of FFXI Promyvion, where your entire run was based around trying to get to the end area boss by sneaking by things that aggro and Abyssea, where you start off very weak and strengthen as you go.

It's not quick and it's not easy but it's fun! I love sneaking behind mobs to help someone res or giving rides to lower level players.

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Originally Posted by dejiko_san

I personally love it in Eureka. It's a mix of FFXI Promyvion, where your entire run was based around trying to get to the end area boss by sneaking by things that aggro and Abyssea, where you start off very weak and strengthen as you go.

It's not quick and it's not easy but it's fun! I love sneaking behind mobs to help someone res or giving rides to lower level players.

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Same here, still play FFXI here, I would love to see a Dynamis kind of thing.