Bard should be first to nerf after healers.

The job in pvp is clearly overpowered, decent damage, godlike mobility across the map, super annoying to deal with for melee jobs if not nearly impossible.

What makes him overpowered is the range and mobility he could use on his side and mixed that with decent dmg he is so super annoying to fight against, buffing him last patch was a really bad idea.

Now i can see multiple bards in one match playing pvp all the time, most of the times they are pulling out biggest dmg of all the jobs, because how stupidly hard it is to catch them and kill, they keep dpsing no matter what on long range.

Its ridiculous, most of the decent players abuse this overpowered job and do like multiple kills each match without a single death.

Can we please nerf this shait, thank you.

bard is a bit on the stronger side but it is not necessarily overpowered, if anything machinist kind of is.

the only real overpowered class right now is paladin, those bards you've faced probably just know how to do damage as bard opposed to most of the community not knowing how to play their class efficiently.

I think it's just that ranged jobs have a big advantage over melee in large-scale pvp and bard happens to be the easiest to play well. The balance solution I think is that ranged would have to be significantly more frail and prone to dying for them to not be overwhelmingly more popular than melee in these modes. Pvp balance has been really bad I think since 4.0 with healers being the most overpowered role.

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Originally Posted by Crit

bard is a bit on the stronger side but it is not necessarily overpowered, if anything machinist kind of is.

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Yeah machinist actually got scarily strong since the last round of buffs, with wildfire getting its damage doubled + shortened and BtE going back to triple damage.

3 gcds + stun gun and bte into a wildfire is ~14k potency in 2 gcds of time (mch gets 3 gcds in that time because of ammo), even their 30s 'mildfire' without stun gun is ~8.5k in 2 gcds which is very respectable.

It's practically Heavensward era levels of burst again. Since Stormblood hit I got used to only bursting for 4k-5k at a time on bard, it's a bit shocking to try mch since the last changes. The new map and rules are a nice bonus too because it encourages a lot of non stop close quarters fighting, which makes it much easier to land stun gun.

so we can just call for sometthing to be nerf now and why do healers need to be nerf.

Melee can shine really well in 24man maps especially because their adrenale rush is better than ranged jobs, but in 72man I rather play bard too. It is pretty hard balance jobs between 72, 48, 24 and 4v4 mode. Most of balance fixes are based by competitive feast 4v4 mode.

https://i.imgur.com/6TOTiI8.jpg

Isnt bard kind of limited in how predictable its burst is? I havent really played it yet but looking over its skillset it seems like you only have a very narrow window to chain together your ogcds. Wouldnt a healer know they have exactly 30 seconds to prepare for your burst when they see you plucking away at your harp? Or does it not really matter much in practice?

Mch seems like its burst is a tiny bit weaker (and lmao no its nowhere close to heavensward levels. A buffed, procced, unmitigated bte crit would hit for like 7k+), but it looks like it does apply a bit more constant pressure and the only limitation on burst is that hopefully your teammates know to stun when they see you throw down wildfire.

I can imagine the sheer number of ogcd's bard has access to would be a big deal in frontlines (which is really just a matter of how fast can you hit battle high). More curious how mch and brd compare in 4v4.

during 3.0 Bard was able to 1 shot heals with a combo. Nowadays they barely deal 40% of their health, while mch still has that immense burst. If anything, they should buff bard

You have it the other way around, bard burst is slightly weaker but more unpredictable. You have no way of telling how many pp procs they're sitting on, or whether barrage is off cooldown or not, and when they decide to use it it happens instantly with no warning sign. Both are only 3000 potency + 1 weaponskill/dot tick though, which comes out to be ~4k potency on average. Once every 30s you can stretch that out to 2 gcds and fit in sidewinder and a song change/repelling shot if you're really desperate for damage, which bumps it to ~7k potency over 2 gcds.

As for mch, the wildfire debuff always gives you 2 gcds of warning time telling you what's about to happen. Their once a minute burst is absolutely 'heavensward levels' too, 3 weaponskills + abilities inside wildfire is ~8500p * 1.5 * 1.1 = 14k, take out stun gun and the guaranteed triple bte proc and it's still 8.5k.

It feels weird to have the ability to solo people from 100-0 again because yeah, ranged burst was severely nerfed in SB compared to what they could do in HW. As a bard I feel really dependent on having a good melee partner in Feast because your baseline 4k potency burst isn't very scary. I agree bard is more fun in frontlines though. Wildfire is overkill most of the time, and having more ogcd based damage makes it easier to secure kills, instead of watching people kill steal your target while your gcd is cycling.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

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I get about 10.5k damage on a training dummy doing wildfire, heated split, stungun, heated slug, bte, heated clean, blank, wildfire proc. Thats mchs entire kit with the exception of flamethrower.

Brd can do:
Emp Arrow - 1000
Straight Shot - 1000
Pitch Perfect - 2000
Bloodletter - 750
Heavy Shot - 500
Army's Paeon - 1000
Sidewinder - 1500
Barrage -
Straight Shot - 3000
Emp Arrow - 1000
Rep Shot - 500
Dot Tick - 450

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Originally Posted by Enlial

I get about 10.5k damage on a training dummy doing wildfire, heated split, stungun, heated slug, bte, heated clean, blank, wildfire proc.

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Well, Split/Slug/Clean should all together be around 4500.
BTE with stun 3000 makes 7500. Add a Stun Gun and it should be 8500, times 1,5 = 12750 without overheat boost or blank.

That's the theory. If it works out to 10,5k damage in practice, then the keyword is likely the "most damage" on the Wildfire description. Chances are, either the GCD damage, or the OGCD damage isn't counted.

That actually makes me curious enough to try it out right now.

Edit: Nope, both count. Let's check if there's simply a damage cap somewhere...
Edit2: Nope, I'm getting around 9700 + 4900 = 14600 total, roughly. Not using blank either because filthy 230 MS latency.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Enlial

I get about 10.5k damage on a training dummy doing wildfire, heated split, stungun, heated slug, bte, heated clean, blank, wildfire proc.

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That's (1250 + 1000 + 1500 + 3000 + 1750 + 500) * 1.5 * 1.1 = roughly 14850.
Don't forget that wildfire is 50% now, bte is triple and not double, ammo adds 250 potency per shot, and you need to multiply an additional 1.05/1.1 for gauss barrel/overheat, and another 1.03 if you took the damage trait. The ceiling is actually a lot higher than the numbers I gave earlier in the thread. I actually didn't even want to count blank because if you don't get the kill you'll cost your melee partner uptime, so it's a risky skill to use.

I'm not sure what the context of those bard numbers is though, it's kinda long for a burst sequence if that's what you meant it to be. If you're comparing it to mch's equivalent burst then comparing a 5s window is best, that gives you 2 weaponskills, ~2 dot ticks, and 4 ogcds max. It's already rare enough to get 2 or even 1 gcd on a target without healer interference, any longer and it's not really 'burst' any more.

If you want best possible burst window, you need stack 5 stack flamethrower before wildfire. You need warrior friend holding your target with holmgang, but then you can do over 20k damage inside 5 sec burst window. that is also predictable, but potentially possible.

Huh, yeah I just tried again and you're right